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View Full Version : 5,700 450R vs 7,000 ltr450 worth it?



wangchow06
03-05-2006, 05:50 AM
I'm having a very hard time deciding if I want to get a honda 450r or a suzuki ltr450. I would instantly buy the suzuki exept for the money. My local dealer that helps me out alot told me I can have a ltr for 7,000 OTD. They give me a 15% discount on all parts. But a bigger dealer a little farther away has Honda 450r's for 5,700 OTD. I am a woods rider and would have to narrow the ltr450 up a little. probly used 4+1 fronts, used Z400 hubs (if they work), and a new axle, and possibly used rear beadlocks so it sits a little higher. How would the suspension be for a 150lb rider? Would I be incredibly stupid to spend that much more on a ltr?

400grl
03-05-2006, 06:27 AM
My husband rode an LTR yesterday for the first time (rode it on the MX track for a while).....he said it felt YFZish, except the suspension was very stiff, it was hard to turn (tends to push in the corners) and it felt really underpowered (stock machine though). He said that he felt if you put the same mods into that and a YFZ or Honda, your YFZ and Honda would still be the better machine - let's just say he wasn't terribly impressed.......

If you are riding woods stuff, and have to change that stuff over anyway - it seems to make more sense going with the MUCH cheaper Honda........

400exrider99
03-05-2006, 06:38 AM
i would get the honda because i have heard form alot of poeple that the ltr is underpowered and the 450r has already been proven on the track and in the woods

benbuilt4u
03-05-2006, 06:53 AM
iam a woods rider and put on 4/1 fronts and beadlock rears. i pipe it and CB, no lid. this thing will completely anniliate a 450r yfz with mods. also the suspension is set stiff from the factory. just loosen it up and youll be happy. i admt my stock bike was a tad bit faster then a stock yfz. but with the new mods hed have to have a few k in engine work to catch me.

:D

FUELATV
03-05-2006, 09:45 AM
Well here is the math...

LTR450 $7000.00
cherry bomb $40.00
pull sparky FREE
pull air box lid FREE

so total $7040.00

things you would have to do to the honda to keep up in hp and susension

TRX450 $5700.00
pipe $500.00
jet kit $80.00
k&n $30.00
a-arms $600.00
revalve front shocks $300.00
wider rear axle $300.00

total $7510.00

i think even then the TRX may be alittle down on power, but take your pick. I chose the LTR and am very happy. Now lets see if it holds up 1/2 as good as the honda.

wangchow06
03-05-2006, 04:43 PM
I keep leaning toward the ltr. ^^I ride in the woods and am planning on starting xc this summer. Only thing is with a Honda i would stay stock with and just revalve. So it would be Suzuki would be 7,040 +axle+front rims and tires+rear rims and tires. The honda would only be $6,410 and esimate for suzuki would be 7,700.

450rJam
03-05-2006, 06:33 PM
or try the $250.00 hrc kit with the $5700 price and your still under 6k (all the 450's yfz 450r ltr) are pretty close once allowed to breath. ltr has benifit of wider stance stock but in woods is it a pro or a con ? try them both and see how u feel neither will be a bad choice and between them the rider will be the deciding factor.

450rJam
03-05-2006, 06:35 PM
oh i almost forgot to include the honda reliability every red rider takes for granted (it just is) the ltr in its first year may have bugs to work out, check other posts

z400roosteR
03-05-2006, 06:58 PM
Local dealer here has a 06 elec start HRC kit LRD piped TRX for 7,599.00

450rider79south
03-05-2006, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by z400roosteR
Local dealer here has a 06 elec start HRC kit LRD piped TRX for 7,599.00


^ ^ ^ rip off

400excracer
03-06-2006, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by FUELATV
Well here is the math...

LTR450 $7000.00
cherry bomb $40.00
pull sparky FREE
pull air box lid FREE

so total $7040.00

things you would have to do to the honda to keep up in hp and susension

TRX450 $5700.00
pipe $500.00
jet kit $80.00
k&n $30.00
a-arms $600.00
revalve front shocks $300.00
wider rear axle $300.00

total $7510.00

i think even then the TRX may be alittle down on power, but take your pick. I chose the LTR and am very happy. Now lets see if it holds up 1/2 as good as the honda. Mister Math, did you miss the part where he said he is a woods rider. I dont think he needs a-arms, axel, and a revalve for a 450R to ride in the woods. I dont know what dynos you have been checking out, but stock for stock the 450R puts out as much or more HP than the LTR. The LTR may be worth it for the MX guys, but it doent make much sence for the woods guys.

tone
03-06-2006, 10:15 PM
ltr-450 no brainer fuel injection is the future.carburators are going to be obsolete just like on jet skis snowmobills cars computer programmers will be awsome

AceLtz
03-07-2006, 10:15 AM
400exracer, your dead wrong on the hp thing. the honda does not put out more. Have you even ridden the ltr? Ive ridden all 3 450s, 2005's and 2006's. The ltr just flat out spanks them all. On flat or uphill its faster than the honda and It has better suspension. Go ride one then come back.....

03-07-2006, 11:21 AM
go with the honda...for the price you put in slimming the ltr down, you can put that into the honda and get better performance, and still be under the o.t.d. price of the ltr. that is assuming that all you are going to do to the 'zuki is slim it down. the ltr is a first year machine and there will be some gremlins popping up. that would make me lean a little more towards the honda also...

any performance mods you do to the ltr will need to have the fuel injection reprogrammed or it will make it like running stock...i am not sure what is out there for the ltr yet as far as aftermarket stuff, and reprogramming either...there are tons of goodies already for the honda that are already proven...ask this same question in a year and i may tell you a different answer

Chad W
03-07-2006, 05:26 PM
I hope to buy a new bike soon and am facing the same dilemma. I really like the LTR (especially the FI and the looks are definitely growing on me), but am concerned with the width for trail riding. I can't afford to buy a $7K quad and then start modding the width. It would be great to hear from trail riders who have the LTR, especially those who ride in semi-rough to rough terrain such as Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, ect.

wangchow06
03-07-2006, 07:02 PM
talked with my local Suzuki dealer today. He said I have first dibs on the one they get this week. Guess I'll have to decide soon.

spudss
03-07-2006, 07:34 PM
Well like I said before I have only owned hondas.. This is my first Zuk.. And I have to say it is a great quad.. I have road the new 450R's and I like them but I really like the response and power of the LTR.. plus the 06 ES450R's have big issues as well.. I have 3 buddies that have them and they arnt happy with them.. they are having problems hot starting them and they are cutting out bad..

The dealers around here are selling the 06 450r for just a hundred or 2 below what you can buy the LTR for.. So I figured I would buy the LTR.. And so far I am very happy with it..

03-07-2006, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by spudss
Well like I said before I have only owned hondas.. This is my first Zuk.. And I have to say it is a great quad.. I have road the new 450R's and I like them but I really like the response and power of the LTR.. plus the 06 ES450R's have big issues as well.. I have 3 buddies that have them and they arnt happy with them.. they are having problems hot starting them and they are cutting out bad..

The dealers around here are selling the 06 450r for just a hundred or 2 below what you can buy the LTR for.. So I figured I would buy the LTR.. And so far I am very happy with it..



Seems like there are quite a few having electrical problems on the 450ER. I didn't expect that from Honda.

zukilt-r450
03-07-2006, 08:06 PM
I just bought the ltr45 about three weeks ago. It is an awesome bike, it handles great. I have also rode the 06 honda and wasnt impressed at all. It sits very high. The throttle is a little sluggish when you nail it and the engine sounds like its knocking. dont get me wrong it is also a fast bike, it is hard to keep the front wheels on the ground. but if wou are a woods racer or ride alot of trails you would probably like the honda better because of the gearing, it is alot lower than the suzuki. The suzuki kills the honda off the line but the honda wins in the long run. I bought the cherry bomb and noticed a large increase in low end acceleration.

eganracing
03-07-2006, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by ACEOUTDOOR
Seems like there are quite a few having electrical problems on the 450ER. I didn't expect that from Honda.

i havent had any issues with mine starting:confused: .

03-08-2006, 06:22 AM
mine came with a bad battery, took the battery back the next day, got a new one, and have had no troubles since.

it hot starts fine. one push of the button and it fired right up...this could be because i turned the idle up just a little bit

the sluggishness is that the fcr carb(all fcr carbs, not just he ones on the hondas) hav a little lag in them. it is in the accelerator pump. for a quick fix of the, i turned the idle up a little. i am buying a product called the quickshot from boyeson, it takes away that lag. the jetting is also set a little lean form the factory...all of the manufactureres are doing this for emissions reasons now. that will be remedied soon also.

450rider79south
03-08-2006, 02:56 PM
450R for sure

450Redrider5
03-09-2006, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by FUELATV
Well here is the math...

LTR450 $7000.00
cherry bomb $40.00
pull sparky FREE
pull air box lid FREE

so total $7040.00

things you would have to do to the honda to keep up in hp and susension

TRX450 $5700.00
pipe $500.00
jet kit $80.00
k&n $30.00
a-arms $600.00
revalve front shocks $300.00
wider rear axle $300.00

total $7510.00

Why would he need a arms and a wider axle if hes gonna race xc? definitly get the 450r you be much happier

400exrider0004
03-09-2006, 06:01 PM
I would definately go with the 450r. Also what hp is the ltr making stock...ive heard around 31??? if this is true than I would definately go with the honda. Especially when there making 40hp stock. ADD the HRC kit, and a pipe, and your close to 50.

AceLtz
03-09-2006, 06:14 PM
Ahah you seriously dont know what your talking about at all. An Hrc kit honda will make a little over 41hp. A bone stock ltr makes about 32hp but if you take out the baffle and airbox lid it shoots up to 40-41hp. the ignorance is amazing..:rolleyes:

400exrider0004
03-09-2006, 07:07 PM
yah thats true when you take the baffle out it shoots to 40 hp, but stock its more around 38-39. Mobile Dyno also posted this so im not making this up. And baffle removement wouldnt give a quad 8 hp:rolleyes: And with the HRC kit and exhaust it will be around 50. AND yes I would still go with the honda for this guys riding conditions. matter of fact i would go with honda anyday.

AceLtz
03-09-2006, 07:12 PM
You seriously dont know anything your talking about. the baffle and lid do add 7hp thats why it goes from 33hp to 40. Do the math. An hrc kit will not add 10hp, thats just plain bull so get that out of your head. It adds about 3 or so. When you come into a forum about another quad and start postin bs hp claims learn what your talking about first. The baffle holds back that much because if you had an ltr you would know.

z03n05
03-09-2006, 07:40 PM
I just witnessed this weekend at Muddy Creek, a kid on a LTR with the baffle out and airbox lid off pull two holeshots over modded hondas 450's and YFZ 450's. This is not an underpowered quad kids.

jstunkel
03-09-2006, 08:49 PM
if you saw how small the hole was in the exhaust of the ltr you would know why takin the baffle out raises the hp so much, the hole in the pipe of my neighbors recon is bigger than what it is on the pea shooter of the ltr!! i had it out for a few days and yea i can definatley say it woke woke up big time but its back in until i can get a cherry bomb or z-speed because its running pretty lean right now

wangchow06
03-09-2006, 09:00 PM
what the heck is Z speed? Is it a cherry bomb made by someone else?

jstunkel
03-09-2006, 09:19 PM
yea its the same thing made by somebody else, i forgot the company but its only 20 bucks, i just want whatever i can get sooner though

400exrider0004
03-09-2006, 09:20 PM
ok...look im talking about the 450r here. The stock hp is around 38-39...look in the dyno forum. Also here is a website so you can look at the difference between pulling the baffle out on a 450r. I know pulling the baffle out on a ltr adds a lot, but I wasnt saying that it didnt..so do blow up on something like that. I know for a fact when adding the HRC kit and an exhaust(like i have been saying forever) it will get you to around 50. The HRC kit will add anywhere from 3-5 and a Rossier or Sparks BC exhaust can add up to or more than 7hp. So do the math. Again like I have been saying, your going to get around 50 with these mods on a 450r. I dont know what your thinking. Dont go getting all mad im trying to help this guy make a choice here. He rides xc...another reason to get the Honda.

http://www.wppracing.com/

eganracing
03-09-2006, 10:05 PM
i was lookin at that site link and this is what they did to get 50 hp: Engine Mods- DASA Exhaust, Baldwin 14.1 Piston, Megacycle X2 Cam, WppRacing Ported Head w/Titanium Intake Valves, Baldwin Valve Springs, Cam 2 Race gas 110 Leaded, DASA Air Filter Kit, 182 Main, 50 pilot, 2 turn open

not to be mean or anything but thats alot of mods. maybe your talkin about the 06 being able to get up to 45-50 with a HRC kit and pipe but the site link isnt proving that.

400exrider0004
03-09-2006, 11:27 PM
Yes im talking about the 06's. and I think theyll be able to get to around 50hp with HRC and exhaust

450rJam
03-10-2006, 04:11 AM
05 with hrc vs 06 hrc = day vs night why would you compair the 05 r with the 06 ltr ?

440exking
03-10-2006, 10:13 PM
Dont be stupid and buy a suz-uki iv had the worst luck with those peices of crap. go with the 450R with the HRC kit.

fmfracing5
03-14-2006, 05:57 PM
For everyone that wants to know hp for stock 450r and ltr and yfz go to the dyno room someone allready put an ltr on the dyno along with a 450r and yfz for comparisons

03-14-2006, 07:15 PM
ltr450 is the way to go, its not only the best, youll have the new thing on the block also

450rJam
03-15-2006, 04:00 AM
I would rather have the badest thing on the block than the newest. dealer installed hrc on 06 still comes in well below ltr price and yfz. honda should have told dealers not to sell them without it.

450rJam
03-15-2006, 04:01 AM
I would rather have the badest thing on the block than the newest. dealer installed hrc on 06 still comes in well below ltr price and yfz. honda should have told dealers not to sell them without it.

450rJam
03-15-2006, 04:01 AM
I would rather have the badest thing on the block than the newest. dealer installed hrc on 06 still comes in well below ltr price and yfz. honda should have told dealers not to sell them without it.

450rJam
03-15-2006, 04:06 AM
newest thing on block isnt as good as best thing on the block. 06 450R hrc is cheaper than ltr or yfz, dealer installed keeps waranty honda should not sell a R with-out it.

tamehart
03-15-2006, 08:52 AM
Its kind of funny to see nearly everyone promoting their own quad or brand...thats cool but what is really best? I was down at the Georgia GNCC race and seen many LTR's complete the race with no problems. Yokley did very well at the Orange Crush on a stock LTR. With some wheels and tires I don't think you will have issues with width on the Suzuk. The honda is a great quad and I have had no issues with mine at all, but EFI seems to be the new thing coming to sport quads. The only issue I seen with the LTR is the skid plates. I am not sure they are out yet, being the reason why Yokley didn't race the LTR this past weekend. Good luck with whichever you decide.

AceLtz
03-15-2006, 09:26 AM
450rJam, i didnt understand you fully. Make a 5th post while your at it....

03-15-2006, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by AceLtz
450rJam, i didnt understand you fully. Make a 5th post while your at it....

LOL

motox450r
03-15-2006, 01:59 PM
i can't wait for another year or two there is going to be alot of surplus quads around. lol. when honda and yamaha counter this bike, i will be anxious to see how many sell their exsisting to update ONCE AGAIN. good luck to ya all. and remember, start putting away alittle stash for your newest ride. lol. ps by the way i think the 450r is the best choice for xc, definitly at this time.

450rJam
03-16-2006, 04:27 AM
sorry guys my pc was froze and im not sure what happened. I was laughing at myself by the 3rd one.

wangchow06
03-16-2006, 08:28 PM
well my dealer called today told me they should have a ltr tomorrow. Guess I'll have to sleep on it an see. I rode my friends yfz today after we put on his full pro ti yoshi. That thing rips. Is the cherry bombed ltr as fast as a piped yfz? thanks

03-16-2006, 08:43 PM
My honest opinion is buy the TRX450R. I bought the LTR and it has been a very stressful purchase. I will probably buy an 07 450R in the fall, and if I could go back in time I would have bought it in the first place. The LTR performs great no doubt about it, but I have had nothing but problems, and I hear they have updated the frames in production and MIGHT recall the ones already out. Good luck with whatever you get, and have fun with it!

motox450r
03-16-2006, 09:27 PM
keep your chin up ace. it will all work out. remember we live in the greatest country in the free world. now doesn't that make ya feel better. it's insanity but it's all we got. lol

03-16-2006, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by motox450r
keep your chin up ace. it will all work out. remember we live in the greatest country in the free world. now doesn't that make ya feel better. it's insanity but it's all we got. lol

I feel better already. LOL

DezSled
03-16-2006, 09:43 PM
Ace, you wanna specify exactly where you heard about the frame issues? As heavy as these things are, they don't seem like their brittle.....can you summarize your problems?

03-16-2006, 10:17 PM
Cernics Racing confirmed the frame problems. Jones, Dunk and a few national riders have broke the linkage mount on the frame. The LTR high tensile steel is definetly stronger material than the mild steel on the 450r and yfz, but it is more brittle and when stressed HT steel tends to break not bend like mild does. This problem may only affect top level MX guys who beat the hell out of their quad, only time will tell. I have heard Suzuki has updated the latest ones on the line. My LTR died after 20 minutes because the throttlebody was not secured with clamps. Right after that I got the 2nd gear LOUD grind/whine with less than 1 hour on the quad. Suzuki says it is "normal", nothing to fix and to just run it with synthetic oil(its not even broken in yet). LOL I have owned more than 50 bikes/atvs in my life never heard a "normal" sound like that. I have to go pick up the LTR, and I'll run whatever oil they want me to, if and when the gearbox grenades they WILL be fixing it. I was so excited to get this LTR, I hope it goes uphill from here.

DezSled
03-17-2006, 12:22 AM
Those are significant issues...Best of luck to your dilemma.

I have always wondered about linkage systems, no links work so well. Just have to have a quality shock for it to work.

Thanks for answering. Definitely food for thought.

Jonas
03-17-2006, 03:16 PM
Why is everyone arguing about horsepower numbers. All three of these brands have been tested by reliable sources and dyno'd already. The facts are out.

Coolidge
03-18-2006, 06:06 AM
I was in the same boat 450r vs LTR450. Im not a racer, more of a desert/MX rider. I chose the 450r and could not be happier. Seriously though, consider how/where you ride, and which bike fits your needs better. And I agree w/other post(s), F.I. is the future, but 'I' can work on my carb. Guess Im stubborn & old (school). All that electronic, computer controlled sensor this, switch that stuff I can do w/out. Now If I was a full on racer...
Good Luck w/your choice. I DO love my 450r though!

wangchow06
03-21-2006, 06:57 PM
:D :) Well I rode a ltr today. My friend at the dealer told me that if I rode it I would buy it. He was right! Took it out in the field by the dealer. Handles so unreal awesome. body position is awesome. 4 loops around the feild an I was sold its so smooth in acleration and through the gears. I rode the yami and the honda both too. the honda felt tipsy and was geared too high. the yami was close to perfect but body position wasnt quite right and I hate the rear brakes. I found my new love a ltr.

wangchow06
03-21-2006, 07:02 PM
I just want to say thanks to everyone for your input. now I have the fun of building it up for xc.:eek: :D

450rJam
03-21-2006, 08:23 PM
where all 3 the 06 models ?

450rJam
03-21-2006, 08:23 PM
where all 3 the 06 models ?

wangchow06
03-22-2006, 03:39 AM
yeah all 3 were 06 models. The yami was my 2cd pick.