416 or 440 ? What is the difference?

[atvtrailrider]

416 or 440 ? What is the difference?]

Besides cc of course? Is the 440 just a bigger bore or is there more to it than that?

[kat400ex]

the 416 is bored 80 over......the 440 you buy a sleeve and they cut the cycliner out to fit the sleeve.....bigger piston.....i like my 416 very happy with it......good luck .....get with marcumsatvs@hotmail.com he can answer any questions you have on price differences and his recommendation......

the way i've been told is the 416 is a mx setup since i belive the ama 250cc class is 416cc and under fourstrokes and also the 416 make more top end power while the 440 makes low end power and is good for woods and anywhere low end power is needed..i suggest the 416 cause i think the 440's are bomb waiting to go off

[Chef]

it all depends on how the motor was built,below about 3000 rpms, mine doesnt have anything for anyone, but once it hits 7 or 8 thousand, it starts making horsepower. mine was built to ride in the dunes, cause thats one of the only places i ride, so it was built for high rpm.

[oynot400]

Originally posted by kat400ex
the 440 you buy a sleeve and they cut the cycliner out to fit the sleeve.....bigger piston.....

This is not true unless you take it to a butcher shop. Yes they remove the sleeve, by heating up the jug in an oven and pressing it out and pressing the new sleeve back in. I still have my stock jug and piston, in perfect condition. That is how mine was done.

[kat400ex]

if this is not true than how can they press the same size sleeve back in......it has to be machined cut whatever....to fit new sleeve ....and once you go 440 you cant go back becuase they have removed some of the cylinder wall. i would get with terry marcum on that he does it for a living .... marcumsatvs@hotmail.com i am sure he can clear this up....i had 416 done and love it.....i am not sure about the 440 kit. good luck

[rhandw69]

Kat400ex,
with your 416, the 16t sprocket, the xr cam,
how is your torque with all that? I have a 416 with stock cam, and 15 t sprocket. I tried the 14t sprocket, but that really is way too low geared for it.
I like having torque though, and im worried by going to the xrcam, and a even bigger sprocket that i would loose all my torqu and low end power.
Let me know how yours is.
Thanks
Rhan

[86atc250r]

With my setup (I am currently running the 15T front), the torque is unreal. Way too much for most circumstances. I'm probably going to get a 36T rear sprocket to tame it down a bit and widen the gears out some, since that will work well with the wide torque curve provided by the XR cam.

Kat is correct. The sleeve may be pressed out, but the cylinder must still be cut to accept the larger sleeve for the "440 kit". The best way to do it is to also have the cases cut so a tapered sleeve is not required, but you're talking more $$$ there for how much gain?

You'll hear people say that a 416 will develop more top end than a "440" and will rev faster - this is not necessarily true. While it is true that a "440" has a larger, heavier piston, the power curve of the engine is going to be dictated more by camshaft selection, carb, porting, etc. than bore size.

My main concerns and subsequent decision to go with the 416 were:

The cost and machining time involved in going with the "440" over the 416 - the 416 is the clear winner in bang for the buck.

Engine temperature - the 440 will run hotter due to less cylinder heat sink area and more bore diameter - how much? Not sure, but it was a consideration.

And finally piston weight - not so much because of what most people mention (lighter piston, rev faster), but becuase of engine balance. I was able to lighten the 416 piston assembly to within 10 grams of the stock piston assembly's weight. Again, not sure how much actual difference it makes, but it sure can't hurt having the piston assy. close to stock weight.

So, for me, the decision was clear, the 416 was a much better option - and I can still go to the "440" setup, or stock setup in the future if I like.

[kat400ex]

i had a 14 on mine for a while......but it was so low it was rediculous anyways with the xr cam and the 416 i actaully feel like i have the response of a 14 tooth with the 16 on it.....i didnt loose any thing......you can get a 16 tooth sprocket really cheap so i mean for $16 you can try whatever you want the chain works with all ....14,15,16 only thing is with 16 you might have to grind the case saver off a little some bikes you dont mine i did...but it is no big deal the 16 adds alot to your whole motor and every gear. even with a stock motor i ran 16 except for the barrel races but now i went back to 16 i just get more out of motor i been hearing 16/37 is a good setup.....good luck.

[rhandw69]

Cool , but what about your low end torque and quick throttle response. Do you still have any?
I still need the ability to rev hi.
Thanks
Rhan

[kat400ex]

i have no problem with my low end torque it will rip you off the bike .....and revs way up ......but i also have the rev box from marcums which advances the timeing 5 degree.....and has no rev .limit on it.....i highly recommend that box you want find it just any where he did some research and anyways it s like his little secret which box it is but he will sell it but you wont find any serial numbers on it.......there around 100 bucks i think ......if you order thru exriders you get discount and free shipping.....if you get that box you will see huge improvement to your power....lets your rev out longer......good luck got to run .....kathy marcumsatvs@hotmail.com i know i advertise alot for him but hey he is cheap and he rides and we know him personally and he stand behind every thing he sells .....plus he is a real cool guy. email him he will respond ......later

[trx400ex]

i emailed him something...waited and he never responded, so i sent it again, still no response

[atvtrailrider]

So it appears with both a 416 and a 440 you are pressing out the stock sleeve and putting in a sleeve with a bigger bore? The difference being the 440 requires you to also cut your cylinder.

The 416 is legal in AMA 250cc class and the 440 is not?

Where your powerband is is going to depend on your cam and carb more than it will on whether it is a 416 or a 440?

It seems some people went to a 416 without changing the CAM, Do you really gain much by this?

[kat400ex]

you do not need new sleeve for 416 its just bored 80 over......you dont have to do cam but you will not see full potential of the 416 kit with out the xr cam. and it aint a bad idea to do clutch while you at it to handle the power.

The 440 is legal in the 250cc class. That is as high as you can go.

[oynot400]

I just want to apologize for that last post, I got in too big of a hurry and read it wrong. I thought they were cutting the sleeve out of the jug, when it is pressed out. Kat400ex was right the jug is bored out to fit the larger sleeve.
Once again I apologize about the post, I don't want you all of you to think that I give bogus info.