who knows about guns???

[tom400ex]

I just getting my pistol permit so I'm new to guns and what I should be looking for. I really like .45cals or 9mm, but whats the big differnce between the two?? from what I gan gather 9mm a little easier to control

Well what are you going to use it for? Hunting, target pratice, hanging it out you car window while going 20MPH past fellow drug dealers?:p

[tom400ex]

yeah a little bit of all that lol.
mostly target maybe some hunting and some home protection. not I need it but ya never know.:D

basically I'm looking for a all around good gun. the 400ex of guns I guess

[antman]

the main difference between 9mm and .45acp is that is the 9mm bullet is about half the size of the .45acp and dosent pack as much power. in my opinion they are both good it really depends what the use is going to be. here is a link that will help you more... http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Defensive%20Browning%20Hi%20Power.htm

[MOFO]

I have a Glock 23... .40 cal. I think its a great "in between" round from a 9mm to a .45.

Good speed/power combo.

If you want something that will be used for alot of target shooting, go with the 9mm. Cheap ammo and easier to shoot for a beginner.

[tom400ex]

Thanks antman i'm going to read that now

[tom400ex]

MOFO i shot a 9mm before and a .45 the 9mm was really weasy to shoot and the .45 to me felt heavier and had more recoil.
what about the .40cal how does that compare????

[rneal]

Is it going to be a daily carry gun or an occasional carry gun? How are you built? (most 45's are usually hard to conceal)

You need to pick a primary purpose for the firearm.

You will not be hunting with a 9 or 45.

Watch out for the 45's with 2" barrels, accuracy is sketchy at best.

I recommend a ruger p-95 to most beginners. They are good quality, accurate, easy to operate, many accessories are readily available, and cheap. The down side is that if you get high capacity mags (15 rounds) the weight goes way up and the overall size is a little large. However this is an excellent training firearm.

There isn't any point in carrying a gun until you can hold respectable groups at 15 and 25 yards.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by tom400ex
MOFO i shot a 9mm before and a .45 the 9mm was really weasy to shoot and the .45 to me felt heavier and had more recoil.
what about the .40cal how does that compare????

A .40 cal is basically like a 10mm round. So it's gonna have a little more pop to it than the 9mm, but still a bit short of the recoil of a .45

I'm kind of a small guy at 5' 7" 135 lbs. So me shooting a big arse .45 acp doesn't make much sense for target shooting and plinking. I have a Beretta 92 fs 9mm and I love it. Extremely smooth action and the recoil is easy for me to handle since it's a full-size pistol. I've found that the higher weight of the gun coupled with a smaller caliber really helps to counteract the recoil and enhance your accuracy.

Having a smaller caliber is also nice for more ammo capacity. Most full size .45 autos hold about 8-10 rounds, .40's can squeeze about 12-13 rounds, and with my 9mm, I can hold 15 rounds + 1 in the chamber. It is nice to not have to reload so often and be able to shoot cheaper ammunition.

[tom400ex]

well I'm 5"11 and about 205 so I'm not small. 99% of use will be Target shooting so thats why the 9mm is so atractive to me. But I was thinking of getting a all around type of gun. But I'm sure like evry thing else I do, I really get into. so i'm sure I won't just have one gun, I'm the type of guy where I start needing more toys (ex. 2 quads, dirtbikes etc) not saying a gun is a toy don't get me wrong I very serious about that. But my first gun I was thinking about something with the best of all worlds. plus I can't carry around by me, i live in a suburb by NYC, so they a way strict on carriers permits around here

[Pappy]

go to a good reputable gun shop, and handle several guns. when you find one that is comfortable and fits your hand then you can worry about available calibers.

when i say fit yoru hand, for defense, you should be able to work the magazine release, safety and slide release with your firing hand without "reaching" or "repositioning" your hand.

i detest the 9mm, love the 40 and 45. a modified 1911 from kimber in either 40 or 45 will make you a very happy handgun owner.

[bigbadbrad]

a 357mag 6 shooter snub nose is a pretty nice gun, you can also shoot .38p, and .38 special out of it, and they are fairly small.

[coolex]

id gom withj the 9mm because the 45 might be a little big in all catagorys to have for a first gun

whats the best handgun for shooting someone? the colt? me and my friend had an argument about it. He says Deagle but I say the colt revolver

[mxracer97]

If you are really into target shooting my favorite would be a good quality 1911 style .45 such as a Kimber, Les Baer, Wilson, etc. In my opinion the 1911 style pistols are the most comfortable to handle and have the best trigger pull available. I have shot Glocks, Sig Sauers, Beretta's, Hi-Powers, and others but they just didn't fit me as well as the 1911. If you reload your own ammo you can put less powder into the .45 to limit the recoil, lower the cost, and get a much more accurate load than you can buy at the store. If you are looking for a pistol to hunt with, I think you would be better off with a revolver in something like a .357 or .44 mag. All of the choices you listed - the 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 are great calibers and have their pros and cons. Have fun deciding!

[tom400ex]

NacsMXer & pappy are really making me think about a .40cal I didn't even think about that. I'm still just shopping around, I didn't even get the permit yet still waiting on the approval. I really need to go to the local gun shop and talk with them some more and hold some guns like pappy said.

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by MixMasterMike
whats the best handgun for shooting someone? the colt? me and my friend had an argument about it. He says Deagle but I say the colt revolver

lol, you mean like which has the most "stopping power"? Depends on the caliber. A .50 AE Desert Eagle can take down large game so that tells you something right there... they also come in smaller calibers. What caliber and model Colt are you thinking of?

[red2004 TRX450R]

Originally posted by rneal

I recommend a ruger p-95 to most beginners. They are good quality, accurate, easy to operate, many accessories are readily available, and cheap.

yep

then step up to a kimber 1911 .45


the ruger 9mm are great guns! and you can get 100 rounds for like $11 in pa VR 100 45acp for like $25.00

I have this gun and its great but I wish I would have go the kimber!!!
springfield-armory Custom Loaded FULL-SIZE 1911-A1 in black stanless

http://www.springfield-armory.com/images/pistols/PX9152LLarge.jpg

[ak_stick]

Hmm for a first gun, I'd recomend the 9mm, its smaller and cheaper than the 45. More and unless you plan on hunting with it, it'll do anything you need it to do.

Desert Eagles are just over priced toys, you'd be better off just staying away.

1911's like Colt, Kimber, Dan Wesson, ect, are nice, but unless you spend the money for a high doller one, you run the risk of getting one that has some "issues" because the 1911 is not as refined as newer guns. They can be very accurate, but also have the tendency to be picky about how and what they shoot.

Glocks are probaly one of the cheapest, but they're ugly, and have no way to place the gun on safe, so every time you pull the trigger it will go bang. Not realy a bad thing, but its different from alot of others and you need to be aware of that.

Sig's are very nice, but very expensive I wouldn't suggest one for a learner, just because of the 6-700 price tag of a new one.

Springfield XD's are also nice, they're pretty much like a glock with a external saftey fixng the one complaint alot of people have with them.

Personaly I'd stay away from the 40, because it doesn't offer anything over the 9mm realy, except more expensive ammo, its only 1mm bigger bullet, and slightly slower, so its not that much different.

[phishboy66]

how about my 2 cents?
About two years ago I purchased a springfield armory xd 9mm with a stainless slide... it has been the best firearm I have ever owned... (and I own plenty). The gun has a captured guide rod for easy cleaning and basic maintenence. 15 round mags are also pretty cheap for the gun also. They are offered in 9mm, 40, 45, 45gap, and 357sig. also in 3", 4" and 5" Prices are about 450-600.

I will stress one thing before you buy any gun... Go to your local gun range and shoot whatever they have to rent. Anything you are interested in you should shoot that model before you buy it. For my first pistol, I wanted a glock.. I loved the way they looked and they had to be great, all the cops use them right??? Wrong.. the grip angle was to harsh for me, and accuracy was crap.. They are also fairly high dollar guns.
oh well, do your research and I'm sure you will make the right decision.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by ak_stick


Personaly I'd stay away from the 40, because it doesn't offer anything over the 9mm realy, except more expensive ammo, its only 1mm bigger bullet, and slightly slower, so its not that much different.

that 1mm will do a ton more damage and carries more stopping power then the 9. i use 180 grain talon handloads in my glock for concealed carry and have no doubts it will do the job as well as my 45 loaded with 220 round nose. read up a bit on the fbi reports on why the 9mm was replaced, it fails to stop on the first shot time and time again.

ammo for practice is cheap, surplus amoo for all calibers is close. but FITMENT and comfort are #1. id rather carry a 22 i could shoot accurate then a 44 i couldnt:D

[bansheeguy]

i didnt read thou all of this but you cant go wrong with a glock. I had a model 30 in 45 acp and loved it, traded it for a S&W 44mag and love that more, i actually might pick up another glock tommarow.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by Pappy


but FITMENT and comfort are #1. id rather carry a 22 i could shoot accurate then a 44 i couldnt:D


exactly! If you cant hit your target, it does not matter what gun your using.

[Pappy]

i forgot who said the glock is unsafe, its no different then a wheel gun;) but i agree, for a newbie, stay away from the glock.

[bansheeguy]

"but FITMENT and comfort are #1. id rather carry a 22 i could shoot accurate then a 44 i couldnt"


my 44 with open sites shoots better at 55 yards than my 30-06 does at 100

[XCRACER26]

I would just pick up a 870. lol;)

[Pappy]

Originally posted by bansheeguy
"but FITMENT and comfort are #1. id rather carry a 22 i could shoot accurate then a 44 i couldnt"


my 44 with open sites shoots better at 55 yards than my 30-06 does at 100

then id say your 06 needs much work..lol

[xx3003xrdrxx]

My dad is HUGE into guns. He has a 500 s@w that is insane! You can shoot a 2 inch group with that thing at 75-100 yards. Hes got a nice leoupold ( cp ) scope to match it that is awsome to. Im pretty sure that it is the most handgun ever made ... :)

[z400ACDC]

I just bought a new Taurus 24/7 pro .45acp. I am not a big gun nut, but I have owned a couple S&W, Beretta and a Taurus92. I like all the new 24/7 models. The pro models are da/sa. I like the way they fit my hand ans there safety lock. I have only fired a couple hundred rounds through it. I have been pleased so far.:)

[spent21]

my dad has been a fire-arms dealer for years, so i grew up around weapons all my life. i've shot sigs, berrettas, s&ws, glocks, 1911's, even a rockolla.
i will agree that the pistol has got to have a good feel to it.
i also know, like anything whether it be tires, trucks, clutches, bikes, or condoms, that whatever SOME individuals use they are going to swear to as "the best". it's all personal taste.
on that note, i'll tell you what i've found...
i hate a glock. i don't care for the looks of them, but i detest the double action. (i could care less about its safty attributes, but consider them safe side arms non-the-less besides....how many revolvers have safetys?)
i like the looks of a 1911 but i hate the grip safety. they also feel "narrow" to me
most of the large frame S&Ws are just a little too large for my paw
my mom carries an italian berretta .380 (early berretta) that i adore, but can't get her to part with it.
so i've come to rest with my berretta 92 fs
as far as "stopping power" i consider the 9mm to be quite adequate. even if you don't deliver a fatal hit, you'll at least slow them down enough to regroup and squeeze another round off while they're getting off the floor next to your bike.... assuming you hit them the first time which is key. as the bumper sticker says "gun control is being able to hit your target."
Which leads me to targets.....decide the purpose of your weapon. if it's mostly target shooting... buy a 22. you won't find cheaper ammo. if it's visiual shock...nothing says get outta my face like a 10" stainless barrel on a .44
i'll back up handeling as many as you can and shoot just as many.
just my 10 cents.

[cletusEX]

I have shot a few handguns over the years and am a big Glock fan (I do understand why some people don't like them). The trigger is not a true double action, but does take some getting used to but they are simply to operate and takedown. I am only 5'8" and feel comfortable with my model 21 in .45. The Kimbers are real nice but are a premium 1911 and carry the price tag. Find something that fits and practice, practice, practice.

[rneal]

if you like 1911 styling, check out www.cz-usa.com (http://www.cz-usa.com/01.detail.php?id=43)
My opinion is that they shoot as well as Kimber but are a lot cheaper.

I too am not a fan of Glock. Most everyone I know that has one loves it, but I can't get past the long trigger pull. This is the case for all double action only pistols as far as I'm concerned.

I bought a Taurus PT140 as a carry/beater gun but with me behind it, is useless beyond 10 yds. I know my limits with the firearm.

As a beginner, you may want to consider a revolver. Revolver's are easier to shoot accuratly if you shoot them as a single action.

My Ruger Super Red Hawk 44mag is my favorite pistol for one reason, I can shoot well with it.

For home defense a good old pump gun full of buck shot is hard to beat. When your groggy and disoriented in the middle of the night, all you have to do is point and pull the trigger.

[Pappy]

my glocks are now outfitted with 3.5 lb triggers. the trigger was cleaned up and there is almost no creep. i literally wore out a G35 in 40. i was more accurate with that weapon then any other handgun ive owned.

[cletusEX]

Glocks aren't double action. The meaning of double action is the action of pulling the trigger cocks the firing pin, which explains the heavy trigger pull. Glocks use a safe action design meaning that the pull of the trigger in a sense disengages the safety allowing the firearm to fire. Once the slack is taken up on the trigger all the glocks I've shot had little to no creep and where right around 5 lbs, which is pretty good for an off the shelf handgun. The trigger does take a little while to get used to but nothing a little practice can't take care of. I can see where the lack of a manual safety may in certain high stress situations cause an accidental fire but if I was in that kind of situation with any handgun the safety would already be off and ready to go.

[Pappy]

the biggest fear i have with carrying my glock, is that if a knock down assualt occured and the weapon found its way into the hands of the attacker he can use it instantly. with my 1911, i feel the split second he would have to try and find the safety would be a second more i could react. i carry cocked and locked, the way it was MEANT to be carried!

[TRX_450]

i vote for a .50 cal. desert eagle :devil:

[cletusEX]

Originally posted by Pappy
the biggest fear i have with carrying my glock, is that if a knock down assualt occured and the weapon found its way into the hands of the attacker he can use it instantly. with my 1911, i feel the split second he would have to try and find the safety would be a second more i could react. i carry cocked and locked, the way it was MEANT to be carried!

Yeah as long as a round is in the chamber a Glock will fire, some handguns will not fire if the magazine is not in the gun. Their simplicity and accuracy is what sold me. If I had a concealed weapons permit and carried a 1911, Condition 1 would be the only option.

[ak_stick]

Actualy pappy I disagree, on both counts.

1mm does not make that much difference. Ask doctors, they' dont know if it was a 45, 10mm, 40 S&W or 9mm that made the hole till they pull the bullet out. The difference between a 9mm and 40 isn't that great. Its all about placement, a miss with a 44 is still a miss.

If you look at ammo results, even the 9mm has a pretty high one shot stop, but that doesn't matter in real life, I carry a 9mm day in and day out, I've used it, if I use it again, you can bet I wont be firing a single shot, you shoot untill the threat is gone. In the end it all comes down to what you feel comfortable with. I train with the 9mm extensively, and I'm qualified expert with the M9 I have no doubts in my ability to stop a threat with it. If you require more gun, by all means, carry more.

[Pappy]

Ive seen first hand someone NOT go down after repeated hits with a 9mm, finally 1 shot from a 45 ended his day. The energy of the 40 exceeds the 9 and i dont know many that would agree with what you stated(opinons,,,the start of great discussions so please dont take that wrong)this can run into a discussion on frontal area of the bullet, its weight and construction etc.

Tests in ballistic gelatin showed hands down the damage path a .40 with hollow points makes over a similiar round out of the 9mm. i do agree, a miss is a miss, but i wasnt trained to miss. The 45, loaded with plain old 220 grain round nose have outpreformed most of todays "newer" cartridges simply because it dumps its energy into what it hits, not THROUGH the target.

And doctors are the last person i care about, they may be deciding what bullet brought the subject to the hospital, with what i carry the mortician would be who you will need to speak with :devil:

And have you made it home for good now or are you going back over?

[Pappy]

a pic for folks that have no clue what we are talking about..lol

l-r

45 44 357 38 40

[TheIceMan]

dang Pappy....i need to dust off the model 21 and sling some lead.

For the starter of this topic,buy whatever gun you can shoot,and feel comfortable.Ammo cost and avail need looked into also,if you do not reload.

[Pappy]

my buddy bought one of those kits that turned his 1911 into a 22. he plimks non stop with it. i was skeptical but after using it i want one.

that might be a good option for a new shooter. buy a model that offers the 22 conversion kit, shoot all day for $8

[Quad Boy 660r]

I can't hit crap with a .45

I am somewhat better with the .44

Next handgun on list to shoot, S@W .460

[ak_stick]

Gotta go back over on sunday, after the bowl for the last 6 months of my tour.

I've seen guys take hits from the 9mm and go down, and take hits from some marines with 45's and stay on thier feet, everyone is different, and I think where you hit them matters more than what you hit them with.

That said, I'll take my belt fed 240 or 249 over a handgun anyday of the week.

Everyone is different, and there are too many different schools of thought on the topic, I dont think anyone can say any one school is wrong. If I had my druthers I'd carry a 10mm 1911 or glock 20, but I dont feel undergunned with a 9mm either.

[prepracing]

Originally posted by TRX_450
i vote for a .50 cal. desert eagle :devil:


Its definitly the meanest semi-auto handgun I have ever seen. But they are priced ridiculously high

[Guy400]

Glock 37 .45 GAP

[Pappy]

ak stick...keep me posted if ya can from over there....and be safe




and I agree, too many variables to be a clear cut case of right versus wrong.

[z400ACDC]

IMO, get a reliable pistol that you like to carry a shoot, and shoot it often enough to be able to use it well, if you need it. That's my problem. Maybe it's that I am getting older. Maybe work and family life does not leave enough time for hobbies. I got 4-wheelers I don't ride enough, a classic truck, I don't drive enough and guns I don't shoot enough. For self defence, a gun should feel as normal in your hand as a fork! I just bought the Taurus .45 24/7 pro. I need to feed some lead through it. I may take the truck for a drive, a 4-wheeler ride and shoot the .45 today:ermm:

[Pappy]

amen z400acdc...thats the problem most of us face:p

[heavy_d]

get a .380 ACP Walther PPK/S small easily concealable easy to control very nice little gun, had a ruger 44mag before that, but that was too big and a little too much kick especially with 240-315 grain ammo, I'd say go with a .380 or 9mm, the 9mm is a little bigger caliber though

[Quad Boy 660r]

Good Luck ak_stick!!!!

[tom400ex]

thanks for all of the responses.... ak_stick good luck over there and thank you for what you do.

i quess i'm gonna just have to get a few different guns, one for each purpose. plus there's nothing wrong with starting out with my own little arsenal:devil: but what ever or how many I get, I will make sure I know how to use it.... thanks guys:D

[Pappy]

Originally posted by tom400ex
plus there's nothing wrong with starting out with my own little arsenal:devil: D

we have created another gun nut:D

[red2004 TRX450R]

that is not a 1911


Originally posted by rneal
if you like 1911 styling, check out www.cz-usa.com (http://www.cz-usa.com/01.detail.php?id=43)
My opinion is that they shoot as well as Kimber but are a lot cheaper.

I too am not a fan of Glock. Most everyone I know that has one loves it, but I can't get past the long trigger pull. This is the case for all double action only pistols as far as I'm concerned.

I bought a Taurus PT140 as a carry/beater gun but with me behind it, is useless beyond 10 yds. I know my limits with the firearm.

As a beginner, you may want to consider a revolver. Revolver's are easier to shoot accuratly if you shoot them as a single action.

My Ruger Super Red Hawk 44mag is my favorite pistol for one reason, I can shoot well with it.

For home defense a good old pump gun full of buck shot is hard to beat. When your groggy and disoriented in the middle of the night, all you have to do is point and pull the trigger.

[85ATC250R]

Originally posted by tom400ex
well I'm 5"11 and about 205 so I'm not small. 99% of use will be Target shooting so thats why the 9mm is so atractive to me. But I was thinking of getting a all around type of gun. But I'm sure like evry thing else I do, I really get into. so i'm sure I won't just have one gun, I'm the type of guy where I start needing more toys (ex. 2 quads, dirtbikes etc) not saying a gun is a toy don't get me wrong I very serious about that. But my first gun I was thinking about something with the best of all worlds. plus I can't carry around by me, i live in a suburb by NYC, so they a way strict on carriers permits around here

Well, I went from shooting a .22 to a .45 in like 5 mins. The 9mm will probably be better for what you are looking for but theres nothing wrong with a .45 other than its bark, without ear protection my ears rang for like a day lol. But I think you might like a .380. I highly recommend Hi-Point Firearms because they are super cheap and they shoot as good as glocks. http://www.mkssupply.com from $120 for the .380, now thats a good deal!

[85ATC250R]

Originally posted by Quad Boy 660r
I can't hit crap with a .45

I am somewhat better with the .44

Next handgun on list to shoot, S@W .460

I also can't hit sh*t with a .45.

[85ATC250R]

Walther makes a great gun too! But seriously I do recommend a .380. We have a walther p22 .22 semi auto and that is the best/coolest little gun Ive ever shot. :)

[NacsMXer]

Originally posted by 85ATC250R
Walther makes a great gun too! But seriously I do recommend a .380. We have a walther p22 .22 semi auto and that is the best/coolest little gun Ive ever shot. :)

I agree. I never owned a Walther PPK/S .380, but my dad used to carry one before he retired (was a policeman for 25 years). He could outshoot every other officer with that little .380 every time he went to the training range. Very accurate and controllable little gun..

[Birddog5150]

I agree with people saying find what fits your hand..
.45 acp doesnt have to much recoil and not much more to shoot than 9mm..I think the 10mm would be a great all aroung load to go with,a little pricey to shoot and harder to fing ammo,but it serves alot of purposes..I would recommend a Kimber to anyone.I have glock,kimber and ruger handguns..I suggest staying away from the Ar15 platform for your wallets sake ,black rifle disease is hard to shake once you get it..You can never have too many AR rifles;)

Buy what you can afford that is quality and fits YOUR hand.Save money for ammo also,what fun is the gun with no ammo..

[rneal]

Call around to some local ranges and see if you can find any that offer training and rental firearms. I've seen many places that are willing to throw in a free rental with the purchase on training time and ammo.

This way you kill a couple birds with one stone, you can try out a variety of guns to see which fits you best and also you will have someone to work on propper technique and form with you. You will also gain the confidence that comes with knowing "how to propperly handle whichever gun you choose".