Terrible sound after piston/cam install...

[skemp]

I just got done putting in a 416 piston with Hotcam Stage 2 cam. I broke it in, and everything seemed normal. I changed the oil twice during the break-in, and I got about 4 hours of easy riding on it. I went to open it up for once, and noticed when I punch the throttle (3/4 or more) there is a very audible ticking/snapping noise coming from the motor. It is not the valves, but I can't tell where exactly it is coming from. It is getting worse the more I ride it, so I stopped, but before I put it away today, I shut it off for a few minutes, and then went to start it, but it was completely dead. No neutral light, no headlight, nothing. Checked the fuses, wiring, etc, and everything is ok. I tried push starting it, and it started, and the neutral light is faintly lit, along with the headlights, which flicker. When I try to push the starter button when it is running, it clicks, but doesn't turn (or try to) turn the motor over. So now I have a quad that I have to push start, and makes a bad noise (obviously something that isn't good, and it is continually getting worse). I have no idea where to even start. I thought about maybe checking the cam (real excited to take off the f'ing plastic/valve cover/whatever AGAIN---NOT!!!!!), but with the electrical all messed up now, I have no idea where to even start at all. Maybe the starter or stator is bad or something...???

I really hope somebody can help me out somehow. I don't know what to do, and am just very tired of trying to get this to work right.. :grr :grr :grr :grr Thanks..

[nakomis0]

Sounds like you have 2 problems.

One is the battery, either its dead, or there is a loose connection at the battery or somewhere down the line.

Check all your connections, put a battery charger on your battery. See if that helps any?

The loud noise when riding... What did you adjust your valves at? And what did you do with the compression release off the stock cam? I'm not sure if the Hot cam uses the compression relase or not, I'm just wondering if you dropped it in there or something.

Thats all I can think of man, good luck.

[Ex'r Marlin]

Just a thought about the noise..... Would having predentination (sp?) cause a noise like he is describing? If, by chance it may cause the noise, then he would need to go to a higher octane fuel, right? My thoughts were that you did not notice the noise without any load on the engine, and then once you put yourself on there, it may have had too much of a load on it.... possibly requiring a higher octane.

I know I don't have the answers, but I too would not like having to go back into the engine to problem solve if there were other things to try.

Good luck!!

[RUFIO]

tighted the screws around your battery. that happend to me and the neutral light slowly became lite again and never happend again. idk about the motor prob though

[nakomis0]

Originally posted by Ex'r Marlin
Just a thought about the noise..... Would having predentination (sp?) cause a noise like he is describing? If, by chance it may cause the noise, then he would need to go to a higher octane fuel, right? My thoughts were that you did not notice the noise without any load on the engine, and then once you put yourself on there, it may have had too much of a load on it.... possibly requiring a higher octane.

I know I don't have the answers, but I too would not like having to go back into the engine to problem solve if there were other things to try.

Good luck!!

Whats the compression on the piston? Higher comp. piston, and possible low octane or old gas. I don't know what pre-detonation sounds like either:rolleyes:

[RytM1]

I just put my 416 kit in 2 weeks ago, and had similar problems after I buttoned it up. Sounded like a valve tick that was louder than it should have been. Ran like sh*t for the first time I took it out to break it in. It would die on me, and then it seemed like the battery didn't have the juice to turn the motor over. Sometimes I would hit the start button, and nothing would happen, or if the headlight was on, it would instantly dim to nothing. If it did turn iot over, it wouldn't start, and sounded like the flywheel was rotating backwards and you could almost hear a vaccuum-like sound. Called around and got answers like put in a bigger battery. I finally talked to Terry at Marcum's, and he told me it sounded like my timing was off a tooth or two. Even though I thought the timing was as close to dead-on as it could be, I went back in and messed with the timing a while, and adjusted the valves again. Afterward, no more tick, and it fires up every time I hit the start button. Took it out this past Sunday, and the only thing I can say is that I really love my EX now.

[VegasEx'r]

With the stage 2 cam the compression release is removed. Did you remove the spring & plunger that sit in the head. Also, since the compression release is removed, you need to have a battery that is in good shape. I don't know if it needs to be fully charged, but it certianly needs to be close. Check on both of those & see what happens. You are sure the valves aren't too tight/loose? Did you tighten them to Honda spec or Hot Cam spec?

[skemp]

Alright, the valves are adjusted to Hotcam's specs (.006 intake and .008 exhaust) and I have checked them 3 times now. I totally took out the decompression and one-way clutch on the cam, as well as he plunger and spring. The battery has been perfect so far, and it was cranking the motor over with no problem at all when I first tried it. This just started happening after about 3 hours of riding it, when I started putting a load onto it. The gas is 100 octane AV gas and I added two bottles of octane boost because I thought it was detonating too, but it didn't help. The compression is 10.8:1. The sound is almost like when you try taking off in a very high gear, or when you are going too slow for a gear ( I am sure you guys know what I am talking about ) It happens when I give it gas, and it is at about 5-7k rpms. It is persistent with RPM's, not throttle position. Right now, it is acting like the battery is completely dead, because it doesn't turn over, and the headlight or neutral light doesn't work at all. When it is running, the lights work, but the starter doesn't have enough power to turn the motor, the solenoid just clicks. I haven't tried hooking up a charger... (I will today).

I am more worried about the noise though. After the electrical got messed up, I wondered if the two problems were correlated. A friend suggested maybe the starter was going bad, and grabbing the flywheel. (I really don't know electrical too well.)

Sorry for such long posts, but I like to give as much information as possible. Thanks!! I really need to get this figured out.

my buddy had his flywheel come loose and hit his stator and his problems were similiar to yours but I think his got to a point were it wouldn't even run at all,,not even jump starting it..:confused: :confused: Just make sure to check all simple things first,,those always seem to be the first ones over looked.

[Ex'r Marlin]

Originally posted by skemp
The gas is 100 octane AV gas and I added two bottles of octane boost because I thought it was detonating too, but it didn't help. The compression is 10.8:1. The sound is almost like when you try taking off in a very high gear, or when you are going too slow for a gear ( I am sure you guys know what I am talking about ) It happens when I give it gas, and it is at about 5-7k rpms. It is persistent with RPM's, not throttle position. I could be wrong, but I remember an article about the aviation fuel not being designed (the formulation):rolleyes: for high rpm engines. I am not saying this is your problem, just reacting to you what gas you are using.

I too have a 10.8 to 1 compression piston, and I noticed at low rpms that the engine would bog.... This was due to too high of a pilot (42) at the time.

What pilot and jet are you using? I know you described the sound the engine makes.... But I am still lost!:confused: I wish I could help you!!!!

Hopefully it is nothing major! Good luck!

[skemp]

I have taken the plastic off a few times, and snugged all the bolts, checked the valve clearances, etc. This one really has me stumped... I don't know what it could be.

[86atc250r]

The noise you are describing sounds like detonation to me.... Get some race gas and try again.

Detonation is bad, very bad - especially when it's happening at higher RPMs and under heavy engine load.

Another thought - head gasket. If your head gasket is "blown" i.e. not sealed fully, it will let part of the explosion escape from the cylinder/head junction which will make a kind of ticking or exhaust leak sound when the engine is under high load.

Detonation can cause blown head gaskets as well as a host of more serious problems.

A blown head gasket, if left unrepaired can ruin both the cylinder and head by erosion of the material around the leak.

As far as your starting problem - you're not getting juice to and from the battery if you have no lights and when you roll start it everything is blinking. Blinking is caused by being powered solely by the stator and not being filtered by the battery.

Disassemble, check, and clean your connections - they don't have to be loose to be causing problems.

On a 400EX, the starter is always engaged into the flywheel - it has a one-way sprag setup that allows this to work without causing problems. If it were your starter causing problems, you would only have starting problems, the headlight, etc would not be affected.

You have two independant problems, troubleshoot them as such.

[400exRacerX]

Did you use the cometic headgasket? And if you did you are supposed to retorque it because it is made out of material. I blew my cometic head gasket that came in my 416 kit. I reccomend running the stock steel honda head gaskets.

[skemp]

Alright, some good news!

I jumped the battery, and guess what, it started. I guess the battery couldn't handle the extra load, and all together took a crap. I bought a new one, and that problem is solved altogether. :D

About the engine noise... After I put the new battery in, there was less ticking. I think this is detonation almost for sure. The AV gas that I put in isn't the freshest for sure, and before I bored, I always ran AV gas, and ran some pure 110 leaded gas and the motor seemed a lot quieter. Go figure. I should have known it was the gas. I am going to pick up some more 110 and try that mixed with 93 pump. I bet the motor is quiet after that.

Gabe, put plainly, you are a genius. Your knowledge in almost every topic has never ceased to amaze me. As for you other guys, thanks A LOT! You helped me figure this out. I probably wouldn't have ever guessed the battery. I will tell you what I find out tomorrow. :D

[Rastus]

It could be some other things.
Sounds moslty like the gas though. Thw wrong gas like you had doesnt let it run good, and ticks.Like or motto is " do the simple things first" :):D