What a night

[Pappy]

Today just wasnt very good:p

On my way home from working, I swung into Harlen's (Admin) to check out some new things and just kick it with a good friend. So after leaving the new ATVriders.com offices:eek: ;) I proceeded home.

About 5 miles from where I had just left, the taillights infront of me flickered then were surrounded by smoke. At first I thought something was on fire and had taken the driver by surprise. As I slowed down my lights caught all hell breaking loose. The smoke was cuased by the head on collision of 2 vehicles:(

I stopped and blocked the road as it was on the crest of a hill, and started to check things out. As I dialed 911, I could hear a man sceaming for someone to help him. The driver(the man) was holding what was left of his wife, and a third passenger was stirring in the back seat. I told 911 where we were and what the situation was then proceeded to check on car #2, only finding a woman trapped with no pulse. Actually the other driver came running over and I told him to check seeing he was already covered in blood. After he said no pulse he tried pulling off the door but it wasnt going anywhere.

So I called back 911 and gave them a sitrep and a request for 2 medic units , a squad and atleast 1 air unit. Once they arrived I left.


Now, I know i did everything i could do. But here is my problem.

I ran with the fire department for almost 10 years. Ive seen just about every possible way for someone to die, had brains all over me, blood, you name it. And not once in that time or at anytime in my life did it bother me in the least. I even once ate soup from a covered pot while the dead mans still smoking remains of the homeowner lay smoldering mere feet away so I dont think weakness exsisted in me nor being a squimish person.

But, as I got out of my truck tonight, I had terror over take me:( It was all I could do to even approach the cars, and beyond calling 911 i honestly dont think i could have done more. The panick inside me was inreal and only in a few life threatening situations have I ever felt that way. Why on earth would someone who has seen it all, been thru some of the goriest things one could ever imagine be so overtaken? My wife says its because I have kids and such, but I dont think thats it. Id still run into a burning building or dive into a river to save a starnger, but for the life of me I could not help these people tonight. This is bothering me to no end.

thanks for letting me vent:(

[HondaRacer300ex]

I can't answer that, but what caused the fire?

I don't know if that was answered in your post.

[(T) (L) (U)]

all im gonna say is i have the ut most respect for you. in a situation like that i prolly would passed out or done something stupid so to you goes my respect

[WOracing]

wow...i dont know what to say that could help you out. i would just try and relax i guess.? go do something that you think woul dtake your mind off it for a while. good luck im sure you did all you could.:)

[Pappy]

there was no fire thankfully, the smoke was caused by 2 cars hitting each other at 55 mph.

the house fire with me eating the dead mans soup was caused by him smoking and falling asleep on the couch, smoke got him down, fire ate him up. he did make pretty good vegatable soup tho.

even now im not torn up about the blood, the death or anything, but more the fact that 10 years ago i would have been inside either car before my truck came to a stop. now all i could manage was directing in help. the terrorized feeling i cant explain:(

[TheFontMaster]

Maybe it's because your no longer with the fire department? When you were you would be the one that people counted on and looked to, to save people, and you were used to do more than just call 911, and check to see if everyone was alright.

[400exrules]

prob cuz you were out of your element, and you didnt have yourself prepared for something like that beforehand, like you would have been if you were coming to the scene in a fire truck.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by 400exrules
prob cuz you were out of your element, and you didnt have yourself prepared for something like that beforehand, like you would have been if you were coming to the scene in a fire truck.

i could cgo along with that, but ive been in situations before where i was not on duty and was handed a car wreck. i was going to get my old man some food in 89 i geuss, when a car wrecked happened seconds in front of me. the car ran a stop sign(drunk was reaching for a beer on his passanger seat) and went head on into an embankment and actually went up the hill after the impact. i climed in the car and git his airway open as he was choking to death on his own blood. he started to come too and thrashed around. the car, with me and this bloody drunk went backwards down the hill right back into the roadway. anyway, he was pretty screwed up and he went for a helicopter ride.

not once did panick or fear over come me. and that is the problem.

[xx3003xrdrxx]

just wondering but have you heard the condition of the people . That is horrible . I respect you for even being able to walk upto the cars.

[Punk'd]

Maybe because you where witnessing (sp?) it happen?

I dont know man.. I know when I see someone that I dont even know crash while riding it scares me. Maybe its kind of the same?

You did all you could man.. Atleast you stopped that shows respect. Mose people around this area would either watch or drive away.

[Pappy]

lol..it was either stop or send both wrecked cars to the shoulder:p

i called my buddy on the way home and he said cross talk stated 1 priority 4 (death) but he couldnt swear to it. im pretty sure atleast 1 was DOA and 1 other would be hanging by a thread.

seeing the accident wouldnt bother me, i saw a tow truck come across 3 lanes of traffic and climb the median berm and flip coming to rest in my lane. dude had no head when i walked up to check him out, but again, no panick feeling, no complete terror inside me and that was just 6 months ago.

[cool 300ex]

Maybe it was just one of them things where your feelings just hit you. Mayeb you somehow knew these people but just could't place it. I dunno but you did the right thing and di not panic!!!!!!

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by Pappy
lol..it was either stop or send both wrecked cars to the shoulder:p

i called my buddy on the way home and he said cross talk stated 1 priority 4 (death) but he couldnt swear to it. im pretty sure atleast 1 was DOA and 1 other would be hanging by a thread.

seeing the accident wouldnt bother me, i saw a tow truck come across 3 lanes of traffic and climb the median berm and flip coming to rest in my lane. dude had no head when i walked up to check him out, but again, no panick feeling, no complete terror inside me and that was just 6 months ago.

Yeah then Its deffinently not that..

[300exr]

Sometimes things happen for a reason. Not that what you saw isnt a tragedy or anything, and it seems like you are a pretty tuff person, sometimes you just get shaken up. I was in a wheelchair for like 3 months when i was 14 and at first I was so mad and down at myself, but eventually I just told myself Ill get through it with time. Hope you feel better man:ermm:

[BlazingYamahaYz]

I think it might be not being on the department anymore. I have been on the fire department by me for a lil over 2 years. I think you mighta felt that terror because it's been a while since you've encountered that kind of situation, and you did what you could. Before you might have been popping doors and doing patient care....but all you could do tonight was call 9-1-1 and do your best to tell them the situation. It's amazing to see what people can get themselves into and survive these days:eek2:

[Jake250ex]

I think I have and idea of why.

I think it was because you actually saw/heard the guy screaming and trying to save his wife. In all the other stories youve mentioned they were dead when you walked up to them. The fact that you could have done something to change the outcome is what I think made it uneasy.

[Pappy]

lol, well i know i surpised the dispatcher, i was dead on with scene and patient assesment. he asked if i was a FF and i said no, i cant handle this chit anymore:( funny how i distinctly remeber saying that.

im telling you it was the most terror ive felt in forever. before i got the door all the way open and my phone out, the guy screaming for help filled my ears. i know i remained calm, but inside i felt like terrorized. i keep using that term but thats the only way i can explain it. approaching the cars with my headlights on them was beyond what my body would allow me to do. very strange, especially from me.

it wasnt the wreck, it wasnt the blood or mangled bodies, it was something i cant explain. i know the hurt and dead werent feeling any thing, so no sympathy was required, and but for the grace of god it could as well been me in the wreck but that risk is there everyday so i dont believe that is it.

my wife thinks maybe my past history is just finally catching up to me. i reckon i have seen alot:p

[Tommy 17]

pappy i think its because u recently had a life threatening illness and was put in the hospital for awhile... you were pretty darn sick there before rausch and mayb now since ur better u value life a lil more;)


but what do i know... i'm no psycologist haha

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Tommy 17
pappy i think its because u recently had a life threatening illness and was put in the hospital for awhile... you were pretty darn sick there before rausch and mayb now since ur better u value life a lil more;)


but what do i know... i'm no psycologist haha

i do know i was thinking i should avoid close contact, i can still get sick easily. but even at that, i am not ashamed to say i was honestly too scared to do much. i dont mean like "oh im skeert", i mean inner terror to the point i had to make myself do things. once i got 911 on the phone i was doing what needed to be done, i just wonder why i would change so much. i havent run a firecall in a number of years, and my bud said its because im not used to it anymore. that could be, but thats just not me, or atleast that wasnt the way i used to be

[2004exrider]

I think it is just because you havent done anything like this in so many years. And before when you could you were in control of it. But maybe this time you felt almost helpless because this time you had to wait for someone else to respond. The only thing you could do was sit and wait.

Jimmy

[ZeroLogic]

i think it is because you heard that guy screaming and it reminded you of your own wife and god forbid if you were ever in that situation mabey that spooked you up a bit i know it would scare me quite a lot

but my respect goes to you

[Pappy]

Originally posted by 2004exrider
I think it is just because you havent done anything like this in so many years. And before when you could you were in control of it. But maybe this time you felt almost helpless because this time you had to wait for someone else to respond. The only thing you could do was sit and wait.

Jimmy

aint that the truth. it seemed like forever and then some.

i think the worst screaming i ever heard was on one of my first ever wrecks. 2 kids were injured, one was screaming bloody murder, the other had abiut a 6 inch gash from his hiarline to his nose but remained silent.

i asked one of the techs what we shoudl do and they said work on the kid with the bad cut. he said the screaming kid was screaming so he was going to be fine:p

the guy screaming was alarming, but hell, id be screaming too. i never gave any thought to anything, except i knew i was terrified. i could sit down on a pile of dead bodies and munch on beef jerkey, but walking that 20 feet tonight was hard. maybe i need a rubber room for a week:D

[SGA]

You have been through alot in the last two years, have been under alot of stress and you have had to think alot about life and death. I also think you have realized how precious life is with your dad passing away and you being sick and you were probably scared about making a mistake which may cost someone else thiers.
Dont worry yourself sick about what happened tonite.
You did what you could do and you did the right thing. Let it pass.

I have no doubt you have it in you to come through in a pinch, say like if someone was out in the woods hurt bad and theres no 911 to call. You would know what to do and do it.

[Robin Hood]

Idk if this applies or not, but my dad gets these feelings a lot lately. He says its because he thinks about every little thing as he gets older. Usually its about me and my brother and how proud he is to be alive and how he wants to watch us succeed in life and all that stuff. I guess as you get older you think a little harder about things that if you witnessed when you were younger, really wouldn't matter much. I guess seeing that accident just made you appreciate being alive and be thankful it wasn't you in the car. Idk, just my 2 cents...

[Pappy]

i can see where your coming from, but those feelings should have happened after the deal was over, and none of that entered my head during the time i was on scene.

ill get over it, it just kind of thru me for a loop. i reckon i just was not in the right mindset for something like this to happen. i do feel bad tho, being one who will help anyone or die trying its kind of hard to take that you may not be the person you thought you were.

[muddy400EX]

maybe because you thought it could of been you and your wife in that car?

my respect goes to you tho, most people would just take off and leave

[crday98]

Originally posted by Jake250ex
I think I have and idea of why.

I think it was because you actually saw/heard the guy screaming and trying to save his wife. In all the other stories youve mentioned they were dead when you walked up to them. The fact that you could have done something to change the outcome is what I think made it uneasy. i'm with jake on this one pappy. my buddy is a local cop. when i was interested in becoming one myself, we used to talk about certain things to see if i could handle things of that nature mentally. when i asked if he ever had nightmares about accidents and such, he said they never really bothered him because every one of them were either minor or the person was DOA.
there was one time when he was called to a house because of a young woman having a severe health problem. i can't remember for sure what was wrong with her but she ended up dying right there in his arms and right in front of her husband and 3 year old daughter.
that happened at least 7 years prior to our chat that night and he said to that day he still has nightmares of that night to the point that it wakes him from his sleep. when i asked him how such a thing could bother him after seeing all of the other things he has, he told me he feels it is because "when they are dead, it is after the fact." he also added that seeing the husband and child crying hysterically after witnessing the mom's death made him realize first hand how death affects people.
everyone,especially a police officer should realize that but i guess it is something that they put a block to so they don't get torn up emotionally while performing their job. unfortunately, they get a reminder every once and awhile.:ermm:

[JTRtrx250r]

sorry to hear man:(

maybe it bothers you b/c you got so sick not to long ago, I know I'd look at death type things diffrent, hell... I do when someone I know dies..

[MAaudioX10]

I don't presume to know you or even begin to analyze what, or why, you didn't go into the car. I guess, I don't see why you are beating yourself up. You did all that you could do. That is all I can say.

I am not a shrink. So, I have no advice to why..but, I sure as hell hope that if I was ever in a situation like that, you are there.

No matter how you felt inside, you remained calm. Shows control. You got on that phone and you got the people that were needed. I can't say I would have done that in that situation, much less, be on the phone and not be able to scream at the operator.

I think your a hero.

[Pappy]

oh im no hero..lol i actually feel bad i did nt or couldnt do more.

as far as hearing the screaming, ive heard lots of that over the years and a few times stick out...

when i was 15, a house trailer caught fire on a neighboring farm. we rushed over to see why so much smoke thinking it was a barn on fire. my dad, myself and a friend were the first ones there. the father was sobbing on the ground, the mother was inside her truck beating the windshield....screaming "my baby my baby". we rushed to the trailer but could not gain access. we went to a window and my dad lifted me up to see if i could get in, but all i could see was fire, and the crib. the baby was not in the crib i later found out, but she died right there. the moms screaming i will never forget. a year after that some really swell teenagers dug her up and threw her body parts out the window as they rode around getting stoned. i geuss satanic worship will lead one to such acts:ermm:


i remeber one call when i was still in school, a boy had wrecked on his way to school and i responded to the scene and once our equipment arrived, we did all we could but he was dead. i was standing right beside the officer when he informed the father his son had died. ive never heard someone sob like that and it still pops into my head from time to time.

maybe the mans screams triggered some memories and froze me up...i dont know. i do know it is tough for me not knowing why, if there is a reason, i did not do what i would and have done in the past. i havent been involved with the fire service for some time, and i only left for my safety and those of my fellow firefighters as my hearing got real bad.

i appreciate the advice, its helpful. talking about it seems to help also it seems:p

[crayfz]

Go to the shrink and see what he says, it makes for some good reading.

[Pappy]

http://www.fredericknewspost.com/sections/news/display.htm?storyid=45469

ive chatted with shrinks before after bad accidents/deaths, they never did much for me:p mainly they would show up and want to listen and tell us its part of the job etc. i dont know anyone that actually benefited from it.

im better this morning, still a bit mad at myself but ill live.

i ran witha fire dept for few years too and you do lose any squeemishness, but it is different when you are the one discovering the scene, as a citizen. you are not in "fireman" made as if you had been tripped out.
one of the things that could be bothering you is that you were close to being involved in the accident

[Honda TRX250ex]

sounds like your a hero pappy, you did what you could. i would say just talk about it with a shrink or your wife.

[wvspeedfreak]

The element of surprise may have had an influence on your feelings.You stated that you thought the vehicle in front of you had caught on fire when you saw the smoke around the tail lights,however when you got out all of a sudden things were alot worse than you first thought.Sometimes thinking you are in one situation and then all of a sudden you realize you are in something alot more intense will send the adrenal glands into overdrive.

[Pappy]

i know it did surprise me:p

i have chatted with a few retired and active FF and Police in teh past few days. some of who thought enough to pm me some advice. basically they all said the same thing, that after a period of time being away from all that you tend to second geuss yourself.

im good, i cant say id do it the same, or id do it any different. im sure there will be a next time.

wow. When I first joined this site, I thought you were a dick, but over the years i gained so much respect for you and realized you were the total opposite. If there was ever a accident like that and I was in your situation I would just freeze up, but you actully like took it over and did all you can do.

rock on pappy :macho

[Pappy]

oh dont get me confused with some nice guy, i can be a d!ck when needed:devil:

one thing you will learn about me is that i treat people exactly like they treat me in most cases. you are cool, im cool. you wanna be a prick, brother stand back because prick numero uno will be headed your way.

[dober250R]

pappy, you did all you could man!!! That's awesome that you could even help out with all you did!! Good job!!!!

I dident read this whole thread. I read the first page and the last cupple poasts. First thing is that I definetly would have pased out at the first sight of any blood. I cant deal with it.


But have you considered that your problem as to why this particular car wreck/ blood and dead ppl hit you hard, is mabie you are just plain " getting to old for this stuff" (mertough (sp) lethal wepon)