gt revalve vs axis rear with link

[trx450Rrider]

is there really a benefit over buying an axis shock to work with the gt rear linkage or getting the stock one revalved with the gt thunder linkage.
This is for the 06 450r.

[Natertot426ex]

Having a stock rear shock revalved is very worth it with the link. If you have the money go for an axis because they are soo much better. A lot of people just have the stock one reworked because it is a huge cost savings. Some will say that the new worked stock shock is pretty close to the aftermarket. So it is all in how much money you want to spend

[R3Concepts]

An Axis single rate works best with the stock linkage.

[XChondaracer450]

listen go to www.hoolzracingproducts.com he will hook you up he makes his own linkages revalves and completely redoes axis shocks to make and perfect them to the way u want them to be..he makes good stuff...im really good friends with his main rider kurt mcgill and i have rode with his stuff on a 450 and it is the best suspension package i have ever been on...he makes it all for the 450s dealing with suspension but like i sayd he makes a bad *** linkage

[440ex kid]

By Hoolz I assume you mean Holz. Yea he makes good stuff, the rear end will run you about two grand. Im with R3, go with axis single rate with the link.

[R3Concepts]

R3 does not endorse the Axis single rate with the GTT link. It was the worst setup we have EVER had. The Axis rode better on the stock link, and the GTT worked better with a stock revalve, they aren't great together. The best stock style standard travel link/shock is a BMS link, with a PEP 8 click single rate rear, by far the best setup we've had. We actually favor it over the LT rear setups.

[trx450Rrider]

i think i am just going to send out the stock rear shock on the 06 out to gt thunder in a week or two and have him do it. i dont think an axis or pep shock will be that much better but does anyone know how good the pep rear shock will work with the stock linkage on this. R3Concepts which pep shock would be the best for the stock 06 linkage. i liked my 04s axis with stock link on my 04 but it wasnt really valved right for me im a light person(135). pep really looks like good stuff and the price is better than most others so maybe i will go with them. does gtthunder revalve peps if i dont like how it comes?
and where can i find the bms link

[Prey]

unless i am missing something here, wayne mooridian of PEP told me (through certified racing) he would not have a shock ready for the 06 450ER for another 6 weeks, that was 2 weeks ago and that if i wanted to run pep by Jan. i would have to run an 05 setup in the rear of my 06 (swinger, link and shock).

i ended up going with axis and should have the 1st dual rate dual adjust rear shock for the 06 model here tomorrow

[trx450Rrider]

nice man. let me know how it works. Are you running the stock linkage?

[Prey]

ya, that was the advice i got, stay with the stock swinger and link

[trx450Rrider]

ok thanks im probably just going to go the same route your going and get an axis rear shock for it

[kbass24emtp]

Originally posted by R3Concepts
R3 does not endorse the Axis single rate with the GTT link. It was the worst setup we have EVER had. The Axis rode better on the stock link, and the GTT worked better with a stock revalve, they aren't great together. The best stock style standard travel link/shock is a BMS link, with a PEP 8 click single rate rear, by far the best setup we've had. We actually favor it over the LT rear setups.

What is the reason you do not endorse this setup? Does this also apply to the DeRisi linkage? Also will the new Axis shock with the rebound and compression adjustment with the Ti spring be better than the old setup?

[trx450Rrider]

i dont know if R3 is right. maybe the pep was valved better for him than all the other shocks. thats usually what happens. i had kandk valve my rear axis for my 04 and this girl i raced with had her shocks done there too and both of ours did not work good at all. they barely moved. now some of my other friends with axis their shocks work alot better.

[jdwxv3]

A pro here in Missouri had the GTT rear link and the stock shock revalved and he said it worked GREAT! He ussually runs Elka and he said it worked as good as his elka. The race he used the set up in he took first place by 45 seconds with 2 other GNCC caliber riders at the race. His quad also set about a 1/2" or so lower than my houser/axis LT combo. The GTT set up seems to be awesome for the money.....somewhere right at $300.00 cant beat that. Good luck, Josh

[Prey]

just thought i would share with you guys, i got my shock yesterday, as i mentioned i am supposed to have the 1st one made so i thought i would post a pic. i was wrong about it being dual rate, i ordered 2 rate but the guy who got it for me gave me the single and told me this was a better setup for the 450R

notice there is no longer a knob on the rear to adjust dampning, it is now an allen head adjustment on the bottom of the shock

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c156/kstanka/CA_shock.jpg

[Dave400ex]

Looks awesome. Do you have more parts laying around for it?

[Prey]

i may have a few ;)

[R3Concepts]

Originally posted by trx450Rrider
i dont know if R3 is right. maybe the pep was valved better for him than all the other shocks. thats usually what happens. i had kandk valve my rear axis for my 04 and this girl i raced with had her shocks done there too and both of ours did not work good at all. they barely moved. now some of my other friends with axis their shocks work alot better.

If you ride a PEP vs an Axis setup the difference is night and day..When we broke down the Axis rear to see if everything was right, it was all spot on according to Laz. We ran it with a 400# and then with a 425# to speed up the rebound a hair, and it still packed up, bottomed out, bucked, you name it. Without the rebound setting it was horrible. Now that they make a rebound clevus adjustment like what Prey has it may be better? Axis rears ride best on stock links if they come straight from Axis. If they go to Laz or Santo then they valve them to their links, but Axis will never hit an aftermarket link setup on the first try...

As far as the PEP question, the dual rate ZPS rides the best with stock links, and the single rate rides best on the BMS link. Both shocks have rebound as well and in our minds are 10 times better rear shocks.

[Prey]

they call that kind of rebound adjustment a clevus? for my own info

[rowlrag]

Originally posted by Prey
they call that kind of rebound adjustment a clevus? for my own info
Some call it clevus, some call it a fork, rebound or not just the style of mount. Sorry to say Prey but you were not the first, I had 2 of those shocks made in beginning of Nov. and no they weren't the first either.:ermm: The reb. adjuster works great tho. Mine work best with the GT link.

[Prey]

you had 2 rear shocks from axis in Nov for the 06 450ER?

[rowlrag]

No sorry, 05, meant to say the new rebound adjuster in the clevis sorry again.

[Prey]

no worries man, what class do you race?

[rowlrag]

Probly race VET again in the GNCC, You?

[Prey]

ironman was my 1st xc race which i raced vet in.

loved it so much more than mx, i bought this 06450ER just to build for xc racing

i will race vet as well

[rowlrag]

It is addicttive. Are you changin the arms and swinger? check your pm

[Prey]

i replied man, i have laeger +1 LTs on order (axis LT fronts i have)

i put a +2 houser antivibe stem, flexx bars, pro armor nerfs (they have a replacable steel peg that i thought was cool) shamrocks and new tires, hrc kit, sparks pipe and filter and some other goodies.

i dont know if ya know of kellner motorsports or not, but their advice to me was to leave the swinger and link alone, just get a good rear shock.

[kbass24emtp]

I wonder how their new rear tripple adj with a titanium spring will feel?

[R3Concepts]

Originally posted by kbass24emtp
I wonder how their new rear tripple adj with a titanium spring will feel?

It just doesnt seem all that beneficial to go with a Ti setup, I could understand a Pro rider using it due to fade, and longevity of the spring, but I cant see anyone else benifiting from it. If you have the cash then go for it, but its not cost effective and seems kind of like a gimmick.

[kbass24emtp]

There is more to the ti springs than just spring longevity.

[R3Concepts]

Originally posted by kbass24emtp
There is more to the ti springs than just spring longevity.

Weight, fade(meaning saging over time)...And???? What else????

[Prey]

when you say weight R3, what kinda savings are ya talking about, i cant picture it being THAT much?

[kbass24emtp]

A big part is weight. The ti springs weight a great amount less than their steel counterpart. This effects how the shock work and how they feel. I had a good discussion with Santo about the ti springs. I can't remember all the details, but he said that they make a huge difference in how the shock perform and feel and they are totally worth it.

[R3Concepts]

Originally posted by Prey
when you say weight R3, what kinda savings are ya talking about, i cant picture it being THAT much?

Exactly 100% my point...There are no real advantages besides weight (the 1/2 lb) it saves, and the sag free life span of the spring.

[R3Concepts]

Originally posted by kbass24emtp
A big part is weight. The ti springs weight a great amount less than their steel counterpart. This effects how the shock work and how they feel. I had a good discussion with Santo about the ti springs. I can't remember all the details, but he said that they make a huge difference in how the shock perform and feel and they are totally worth it.

I disagree, the smallest part you will notice is the weight. As I said before, the only real advantage is the sag free lifespan, which is kind of an oxi-moron because the only people it will really benefit, would be a Pro rider, and 100% of which change spring rates every race due to track variance, which again brings us to the overkill fact, thus providing more reasoning as a gimmick.

[rowlrag]

Originally posted by Prey
when you say weight R3, what kinda savings are ya talking about, i cant picture it being THAT much?
Clean out your pm box Prey

[Prey]

its clean rowlrag, sorry about that

[kbass24emtp]

Originally posted by R3Concepts
I disagree, the smallest part you will notice is the weight. As I said before, the only real advantage is the sag free lifespan, which is kind of an oxi-moron because the only people it will really benefit, would be a Pro rider, and 100% of which change spring rates every race due to track variance, which again brings us to the overkill fact, thus providing more reasoning as a gimmick.

Here is how the weight effects the shock. This info is taken from Renton Coil Spring. "The substantial weight savings also improves the suspension performance by reducing the mass and inertia generated by displacements of the suspension system. A lighter suspension system will have improved response and performance."

"Do Titanium springs ride differently? "
"Yes. A titanium spring is more responsive then a steel spring and helps the suspension keep the tires on the ground for better traction and handling. Titanium springs have less mass and thus less inertia. As springs are rapidly compressed the material mass is displaced and generates momentum or inertia based on the product of the velocity and mass involved. In demanding applications this can cause spring surge where the spring coils are moving in the opposite direction of the shock travel. This can disrupt the performance of the suspension system and lower the ability of the suspension to follow the terrain and keep the wheel on the ground. The less mass in the spring, the better performing the suspension will be. "
"Lower mass systems generate less inertia and accelerate faster allowing better "responsiveness". This allows the suspension to keep the wheel in contact with the ground more resulting in better traction and handling. " Also the weight saving is almost two pounds, check out http://www.rentoncoilspring.com/ for more info.

[R3Concepts]

The steel spring only weighs about 2 lbs, so it must weigh close to nothing...Is this your first aftermarket rear shock? If so, then its a waste, you wont notice one bit of difference between the 2. But like I said before, if you got the cash then spend it.

[kbass24emtp]

Originally posted by R3Concepts
The steel spring only weighs about 2 lbs, so it must weigh close to nothing...Is this your first aftermarket rear shock? If so, then its a waste, you wont notice one bit of difference between the 2. But like I said before, if you got the cash then spend it.

Thanks for the info, but i'll take DeRisi's advise. Also your boy Baldwin is a dealer for the ti springs according to their web site.

[rowlrag]

If I had the extra $$$ I'd buy them, I've rode them and steel springs on the same bike and liked the difference. It seemed that you could feel the valving a little better.