05 kfx z400 warning

[rrguy]

There seems to be a few Z & kfx that have had coolant leaking into the oil. Seems like the magnesium on the 05 are were the problem is & probaly coming from having the wrong coolant in. Here is a link to some more info & to maxima the one place I found that makes coolant for our type of motors & to help fight these problems.

http://quadworld.vf11.com/quadworld-about88.html

[turboz400]

hey man i have a 2005 and i never had a problem so far, even if i did my 4 year 6 month warrentee will cover it lol:D

[PeeWee21]

That's what other owners said. They're gonna deny it so you'll have to fix it out of your pocket. Do not assume that the extended warranty will cover it....your askin for trouble if ya do.

[johnnydufus]

we have alot of ppl over at z400central.com that has had the same problem and after we have enough complaints we will send all of it to suzuki and have them look at it and try and get it covered our warranty

[RiderZ]

For you '05 Z-KFX-DVX owners take a look at the pic-then go to z400 Central.com for more info on this problem.It seems that the coolant is causing electralosis (?) between the aluminum & magnesium engine parts.I bought mine new the last week of October '05 and checked mine this evening-sure enough something if happening to the water pump intake.It looks like solidified coolant-damn near plugging the hole up.Better check yours NOW!!!!:eek2:Mines got less than 20 hours on it.There are guys worst off than mine shown on Z400Central.com.Check it out!

[z400roosteR]

looks like a slurpee from 7-11!

[Flynbryan19]

This is a problem for ALL 05-06' Z/Kfx400 owners guys..... Don't think your exluded! This is my BRAND NEW 05' Z400. It is 3hrs old and has NEVER had any fluid changes. Do not turn a blind eye to this guys. This is a problem for everyone!

[Flynbryan19]

Everyone with this Problem needs to contact American Suzuki Customer Service and find out more info on what needs to be done.

American Suzuki Customer Service
1-714-572-1490
(Update: The only help I got out of calling the customer service was being told to take it to a dealer... :ermm: )
8:30-5:00 PT Mon-Fri

This is either a Dealer screw up or a Manufacturer screw up and it needs to be handled!

[hnnblehscnnble]

ok this same problem happens with cannondales with magnesium cam covers.regular coolant and water (50 50 mix) has a chemical reaction with the magnesium causing corrosion.thway to fix it is to get rid of any magnesium parts and put in aluminum or just run 100% evans coolant, or even engine ice.other advantages with this is evans and engine ice can hold more heat so engine runs cooler.so ur choices are deal with dealers,spend a ton of money for aluminum parts or go buy a gallon of engine ice or evans( prefer both).just my 2 cents.

kyle

[Flynbryan19]

Engine Ice still has water in it....... This does not solve the problem. Only a waterless coolant like Evans will work. But...... For those of us that are still under warranty and those (like me) with little to no hours on their quads. I strongly feel the manufacturer owes it to us to fix this.

[hnnblehscnnble]

from what i understand part of the problem is non-distilled water.if u read the label on engine ice's bottle it has distilled water in it.and i have 3 cannondales with engine ice and 2 with evans and 1 with 50 50 mix with aluminum valve cover(the other 5 have magnesium) and none corrode.do what u want, but i see u saving riding time, and time hauling it to a shop if u just drain ur system and put in some evans(or engine ice)

kyle

[Flynbryan19]

The problem is the thing is full of crude/crap..... I want to atleast get it cleaned out and have the "right" stuff put in it. Most of all, I don't feel that I should have to pay for it.:grr:

[PeeWee21]

Bryan...not to be picking sides but hannibal is right on the money. Drain your coolant system...flush it with distilled water....add evan and you won't have any more problems out of it. Now....i figure with enough peeps out there...Zuki will prolly have a recall and switch the covers...maybe even with the 04 covers...only time will tell though. Off topic but....that statement in your signature....is 100% accurate!!!!!!!!!

[Flynbryan19]

I'm certainly willing to just flush it out. :) I just want them to be responsible for doing it. It is their screw up after all. I know a service tech down the street at the zuki dealership and he had the same exact thing happen to his and other Cannondales hes worked on(they were a cannondale rep too). So, hes aware of what causes the problem, and is calling suzuki today to see what they say about. He seems pretty adamant that if there is no damage to the cases he can just clean them out and put magnesium safe coolant in it and I'll be on my way again. ;) I'll keep ya'll informed.

[PeeWee21]

I would venture to say your cases are safe since they're aluminum and not magnesium. Since you caught yours early...i know you'll be fine with a flush and the designated coolant. I would do the same thing and atleast help pursue Suzuki making things right. Ya never know.....you may need a side case later on down the road!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[redrunner]

So what is the best way to go about flushing your system?

[Flynbryan19]

Originally posted by redrunner
So what is the best way to go about flushing your system?

I was wondering the exact same thing.....:confused:

[redrunner]

Here's some help.

http://www.z400central.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=24998&hl=flushing

[Flynbryan19]

What I'm most concerned about though, is how to get all that corrosion buildup out....? Obviously we can't dig up in there with our fingers and just scrape it out. Would the corrosion be in all the water channels/pockets as well, or does it just collect right there where the two different metals contact each other?

[KoolKwad400]

Called my dealer about this issue.....the machanic says that he has not seen this problem with the bikes, he says that the water passages don't contact magnesium, only aluminum. My bike only has about 10 hours on it. He did mention that the manufacturers put a leak-stop powder in the engines to prevent nuisance water pump leaks. He did mention that he runs Engine Ice in his bike, but said it would be a waste of money to change now until it is due for a coolant change.

What to do??????
Is it worth it just to pay and have it changed, or wait for a recall???


Jerry

[PeeWee21]

If you wait for a recall........how much damage will be done by then???? Are you willin to take the chance and have your quad down for a month or 2...or .......change it now and not risk any further damage? I know what i'd do. Your dealer fed you full of crap. How does it NOT contact the magnesium? That whole side case is magnesium....the coolant runs through the water pump which is bolted directly to the magnesium cover...i figure the dealer is waitin for yours to go outta warranty so he won't have to eat the bill!!!!!!

[hnnblehscnnble]

ok if u dont want to pull ur motor and tear it apart use pressure and wat and get the most of that slushy looking stiff out lol.then just run evans.theres nothing to feed more corrosion if u run evans so u should be fine.im not a chemist but its worked fine for our dales.

kyle

[redrunner]

It was suggested to me to leave it alone and wait for a recall, if the motor goes then they will have to replace it, if you tear it down and do the coolant replacement yourself they may not honor warranty recalls.
All my work (engine) has been done under warranty ie. first check up/adjustment at the dealer.
I am pretty much done for the year, eff snow and cold I'll wait!

Time to powder coat stuff!

[Flynbryan19]

Not me........ I'm not going on "good faith". If all goes according to plan I'll be taking mine in tomarrow. Why blow up a perfectly good motor if you don't have to?:confused:

[redrunner]

I am not going to blow it up I am not riding it......lol

well I may take a peek at it, all I can feel is that stuff eating away at my parts.......dang!

[PeeWee21]

Off topic but what is the GT Thunder Velocity Stack that you mention in your signature?

[redrunner]

Originally posted by PeeWee21
Off topic but what is the GT Thunder Velocity Stack that you mention in your signature?

It is a wonderful little piece, you drill a 2" hole and install it in your lid, keeps water out and lets air in.

[PeeWee21]

Sweet! Thanks. It's something i'm gonna look into.

[KoolKwad400]

Any ideas about roughly how much a dealer would charge to swap out the coolant for Evans???
My dealer carries Engine Ice, is that a reasonable substitute???


Jerry

[Flynbryan19]

Here is the latest from another site I posted on.....

Alright guys heres the latest from my service tech. The Service tech manager for this area now knows of this problem. Mine is the first documented case in this area. My tech has to take pics of the cases and other objects that come into contact with the coolant and send them up to Suzuki. He said they're going to be looking much further into this now since mine was brand new.

WORD OF ADVICE!

DO NOT open your water pump covers before bringing your quad into your shop. This is the first way that they will say it will VOID your WARRANTY. If you have I'm not telling you to lie, but it is up to you as to if you do or not...... I can't stop you.

Explain that you heard about this problem from this site, and explain about the many others that also have found this same problem.

GET ON THIS GUYS!!!! It is a model wide problem, and is not affecting just a small few.

I've been told that the solution will be to replace parts needed, and to run a coolant that is safe for magnesium covers. The coolant that is at my shop that they will be using is made by Motul.

The service tech says that mine will be taken care of at no cost. I CAN NOT guarentee that the same will happen for you, but the sooner you bring it in to the shop the better your chances are of getting it covered.

[Flynbryan19]

Originally posted by KoolKwad400
Any ideas about roughly how much a dealer would charge to swap out the coolant for Evans???
My dealer carries Engine Ice, is that a reasonable substitute???


Jerry

NO! Engine Ice is NOT a suitable substitue. It MUST be magnesium safe. Right now I'm being told that Motul carries a coolant that is safe for magnesium. My tech runs it in his Cannondales(they had the same problem we're having). DO NOT let them put standard anti-freeze back in your quad.

[PeeWee21]

Not tryin to argue but on the label of Engine Ice...does'nt it say that they use only distilled water? Or am i thinking of something else? It may be Coolanol that i'm thinkin about....i'm not sure now!!!

[KoolKwad400]

Bike went to the dealer today- read my other post "Big Thank You"

Jerry

[Flynbryan19]

I just know that the only thing he said he had in the shop that was safe for it was the stuff from motul..... He also had engine ice in the shop and didn't recommend it, so take it for what its worth.....

[PeeWee21]

Bryan...it was Coolanol...not the Engine Ice that i was talkin about!!!:D

[hnnblehscnnble]

engine ice says uses distilled water on label, and engine ice is magnesium safe!!!!i am arguing.we have ENGINE ICE,Evans, And regular anitfreeze in a tleast one out of our 6 cannondales.the regular antifreeze is in mine with aluminum valve cover the rest have either engine ice or evans in our magnesium valve covered cannondales!!!!!!!and none are corroding!!!!

kyle

[Flynbryan19]

ok..... Run it. It is your choice. :)

As long as it isn't corroding it, then I'd say its not hurting anything. ;)

[rrguy]

neither products use tap water. Coolanol uses deionized water. Thats one step past dist. We also have deionized water at work. There are no ions to react with the Magnesium. I sure would hope they wouldn't do all that product developement then premix it with tap water. LOL. I just mentioned Coolanol because they mentioned being safe & tested for motors with aluminum & magnesium. Cel cool refered me to them, although they make premium coolant for diesels, he recomended Maxima cause they have done alot of testing with dirtbikes atv etc


Maxima Coolanol is a ready-to-use 50/50 blend of premium quality anti-freeze and deionized water to provide optimum rust and corrosion protection for all aluminum and magnesium motorcycle and ATV liquid cooled engines. Coolanol also contains anti-foam agents to reduce water pump cavitation and increase cooling capacity. Coolanol 50/50 blend protects from freeze-ups in winter down to -34°F. Coolanol also raises your cooling systems boiling point to 265°F with a 15 lb. radiator cap. This extremely low-silicate fluid is ideally suited for all motorcycle applications...


As far as that warranty issue I would check my 05 - 06 and if there was any sign of corrosion I would bring it to the dealer. If they give you the run around. I would go off like a rapped ape, start throwing thier wrenches if you have to.

[hnnblehscnnble]

ok bro all i was trying to do was help my knowledge to help u z400 and kfx guys out, and all u want to do is be a little smart @$$.so no u guys do what u want.send ur motor to dealers for pointless warranty work,blow them up, let them corrode i dont care.

engine ice has distilled or deionized water or whatever.regular anitfreeze and tap water have imperfections that react with the magnesium.engine ice has distilled water so no imperfections or bad whatevers to react with the magnesium.im not a chemist so i dont know what words to use but i know im right.i dont run anything in our dales that would harm them.they had enough problems to start with.

kyle

[rrguy]

hnnblehscnnble I appreciate your info. Alot of people seem to think Suzuki is the only one who uses magnesium in thier motors. That the z400 is the only one in the world with this problem. Plus anyone who buys a Kawaski with a suzuki name plate is asking for trouble. LOL


The question is is there anyone who has not had a problem with thier 05. I talked to the dealer they said the z comes with coolant in it? I thought that was something that they add?

[PeeWee21]

I don't know who was gettin smart??:confused: What rrguy posted was very informative.....i did'nt see any sarcasm in it. Who and what are you talkin about??????

[rrguy]

Well I thought we were all on the same page trying to find a solution?


I don't have a problem buying new coolant. I also think engine ice, evans, or evan coolanol would be safe.

Whats the correct thing to do? So down the road you don't have hundreds of KFX & LTZ leaking coolant into the oil that are now out of warranty. They will end up with alot more problems than just cooling system. Not everyone reads the forums, so a dealer notice or recall might be the only way to reach other riders.


SO far everyone that has talked to a dealer got the same response. We never heard of that????? Rather than we will try & find out what going on here. Well thats where the wrench throwing comes in.

[hnnblehscnnble]

i was refering to flynbryan.his last post was being sarcastic imo.rrguy is completely cool.i have no problem being prooved wrong but the only thing flybryan could use against me was his friend knew what was safe to use.i honestly dont care.i know im right,have proved im right.moving along

what we did with our dales when we found out about the corrosion problem they have is just drain the coolant,flush with distilled water, and then put in engine ice or evans.i have heard of some even flushing with coke a cola but we just used water.i was thinking u could use low pressure to blow some of that scum out but u would have to run distilled through right after unless u have a way to run distilled through with pressure.its nott hat big of a deal which u use to clena it out but u have to have to run either evans or engine ic eor that other stuff rrguy mentioned.the reason u cant just put regular antifreeze and bottle water in it is because there are still imperfections after because u mixed it.when it is mixed by the makers of engine ice im sure theres a clean process.does this make sense?

kyle

[PeeWee21]

Yeah..that makes sense and i'm not trying to argue...but in my honest opinion...i think Bryan was'nt getting smart...i think that's the reason he put the smiley at the end of it....but it's just an opinion. Back to the task at hand.......since you have 3 or 4 Dales...ya wanna trade me one of them!!!!!!!!:D You've got the same SN over at Daleriders don't ya?????

[redrunner]

Could you just drain out the system, fill with distilled water and run the engine for say a couple of minutes to try and flush the stuff out, drain and repeat this a few times?

[hnnblehscnnble]

redrunner that could be an idea.i think flush it sraight through then afteru get the most of it try and running it for say 2 min and then drain again.like i said before if u get most of the sludge if u have any and u put in a magnesium safe coolant in it will be fine.nothing feeding the corrosion.

pee wee we have 6 cannondales.
mine(in signature)
'03blaze
'03speed
'03 cannibal
'03 cannibal
'02 cannibal

4 are getting falicon cranks,wiseco pistons, and made bullet proof liek mnine this winter, and the '02 is getting valve adjustment and new map.it already has atk balanced crank with Z400 rod bearing sp its motor is good.then this spring when they are all done im selling the speed and the '02

as far as flynbryan im over it.i dont lean ont he past.i look for the future of my dale destroying some more of your z400's:devil: lol jk guys

kyle

[Flynbryan19]

Originally posted by hnnblehscnnble
i was refering to flynbryan.his last post was being sarcastic imo.rrguy is completely cool.i have no problem being prooved wrong but the only thing flybryan could use against me was his friend knew what was safe to use.i honestly dont care.i know im right,have proved im right.......

kyle

Bro, I wasn't trying to be a smart-***** at all....... All I said was you were more than able to use whatever coolant you want. It really doesn't hurt my feelings one way or the other. I sensed your obvious tension from you post, and rather than start an arguement about something I really didn't care about, I wrote the response I did. My objective was to just end the apparent tension you felt about the situation.

I'm glad you use engine ice, and I'm also glad it works for you. All I was saying was that the Motul stuff was what my mechanic recommended I use from his previous experience with his Cannondales, and the ones he worked on at his shop. I was trying to admit that I did not have every answer for the problem we have and that your solution may work just as well as mine.

[KoolKwad400]

My LT-Z went in today to have this problem checked. At first, the mechanic looked at me like I had 6 heads, said he never heard of it. I showed him the pics off this site, so he said he'd check it. The bike is 2 1/2 months old now. He just called me, said he pulled the water pump out and guess what.......corrosion. He said it wasn't nearly as bad as the others on this site, but it was definately starting. He couldn't believe it. He called Suzuki and the rep said they will cover the coolant flush/replacement and any other damage. I told him about the Evans Coolant, but they are having a hard time locating a dealer in Massachusetts. He was waiting for the rep to call him back or visit. The rep said he could probably get Evans or Motul coolant to replace what was in there. As far as the damage, the mechanic checked the covers and said at this point the damage is extremely minimal, as we seem to have caught it in time. In any case, the dealer is now going to build a case to go to Suzuki to try to initiate a recall. The mechanic said the dealership may actually call other customers who have bought LT-Z's and see if they'll bring them in to be checked.

If you have an 05/06 LT-Z, please have this checked. I insisted that my dealer check it even though they were convinced I was nuts, and guess what, hopefully a disaster has been averted.

Jerry

[Flynbryan19]

See guys! This is for REAL!! Get your 05-06' Z400/Kfx400 checked out!

[hnnblehscnnble]

ok well glad u guys got it figued out unsubscribing after this post

kyle

[nr2041]

i have an 05 kfx and have been running engine ice ever since the 1st or 2nd ride, i pulled my pump cover today and sure enough it was corroded as well, not as bad as some of the cases i have seen but it was still pretty bad, so engine ice is not safe, even though it says on their website that it is safe for mag. engines.

[nr2041]

here is another pic with the crap cleaned out to show what the metal looks like

[nr2041]

and another

[nr2041]

i will be going to my dealer tomorrow with pics to see want they can do for me seeing how my warranty is already up

[KoolKwad400]

My dealership contacted the Suzuki rep directly, and he was quick to say that Suzuki would cover the problem and it would be NO CHARGE to me.

We'll see if they will pay to replace the covers.......so far they are saying they will cover the coolant flush/replacement. I am going to the dealership this morning to inspect the cover myself and push for a new cover.....

I'll let you know how I make out........


Jerry

[Flynbryan19]

I did some searching around the archives over at Cannondaleriders.com after speaking with hnnblehscnnble and although there seems to be differing opinions theres two consistant things. Evans coolant is a guarenteed fix and aluminum covers are a guarenteed fix. There are also many that say that a magnesium safe coolant with de-ionized water is also safe to use if it is flushed approximately every 6 months. Take it for what its worth, but after I did some searching on the C-dale boys site hnnblehscnnble is right and apparently de-ionized water coolants are safe as well as long as the replacement intervals are observed.

[KoolKwad400]

Dealer told me that they are going to put EVANS NPG-R cooloant in it because that's what the rep recommended. The only sucky part is they don't carry it and had to order it, wont be there until the middle of next week, so until then.........NO BIKE!!!!

Oh well. If we get enough snow, I'll break out the Ski-Doo.....


Jerry

[rrguy]

Yeah I think the other thing to remember is to change coolant more frequently. Once you get particles in the coolant, & If the corrosion inhibitors break down, then the pitting could start back up.

[KoolKwad400]

True....from what I am told the Evans is "race coolant" and needs to be changed about every six months. A little pricey, but cheap when compared to replacing the engine.

What is Suzuki going to do???? No word of a general recall. My opinion is that they are not going to do ANYTHING because it seems that they guys losing motors have bikes that are beyond the six month warrantee. Suzuki will turn their back on them. They are only going to take care of the ones that become issues during the first six months.

AGAIN......IF YOU HAVE AN 05/06 GET IT CHECKED BY THE DEALER....DO NOT PULL IT APART YOURSELF. THIS GIVES SUZUKI A REASON TO SAY YOU DID SOMETHING WRONG. IF YOU HAVE A GOOD DEALER (LIKE ME) THEY WILL DO THE LEGWORK FOR YOU TO GET SUZUKI TO COVER IT!!!!!!!!



Jerry

[OrangeKFX1979]

:mad: Look familar?? Just pulled my pump off. The second pic is the damage after clearing away the corrosion. This quad was bought new in Feb. It is a 05 model. My warrenty is out so all i can do is hope they have a recall. I will be putting the evans coolant in it for now. Just my luck.................http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/843000-843999/843226_16_full.jpg http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/843000-843999/843226_17_full.jpg

[rrguy]

:(
Well still no one has pulled the cover off & found it in good condition?

[HondaRider250]

i just looked on evans website, which coolant is the best for atvs? the npg+ waterless coolant or the npg waterless coolant? also, do u have to drain everything out of the engine and radiator before using it? i havent checked my kfx yet, but after seein this chances are ive got the same damn problem. i hope suzuki recalls this.

[Flynbryan19]

I've read a couple of people have been told to run the npg-r. Evans says its a thinner viscosity for the smaller motors and radiators. You can also run the npg+

[redrunner]

Ok, Tom at Evans has told me to use the NPG-r. It flows better and if by some chance it gets into the oil it will not seperate and can run for a time.

As far as cleaning/purging it was suggested to drain and refill with water and run to temp and drain and clean, then use their "prep" fluid run to temp to push out any remaining water in the system internally. I bought a gallon of each and going with a 03' cover.

[HondaRider250]

are u saying to run the bike with water in the radiator? i thought water was what was causing the problem

[kfxriderirv]

im running maxima coolinal (sp) in mine i was woundering if that was ok im not sure if mine has this proublem im going to check it out tomarrow thanxx for the help

[kfxriderirv]

i dunno if i worrie to much but its 1:30 here in sc and i didnt want to forget about this so i went out side and checked it i have very little corrision in mine and i changed the fluid and flushed the radiator and put the maxima in it does that fix the proublem or what else do i need to do??

[redrunner]

Originally posted by HondaRider250
are u saying to run the bike with water in the radiator? i thought water was what was causing the problem

Ok a little un-clear, yes with water but then drain and run again with the prep fluid. What it does is force all the water to the top/exits of the passages. It is heavier than water and will eliminate all water. 2 table spoons of water in the Z system is equal to 2 or 3% which is above the recommended ratio. You can actually use the prep as coolant but....

[rrguy]

Use deionized or disteled water when rinsing.

Talking to the Maxima rep Coolanol has worked fine in other motors with magnzium parts. If you run evans I would go with the thinner coolant to help avoid cavitation.

[KoolKwad400]

Dealer put NPG-R in mine.


Jerry

[Titanium]

Does this count as a recall? and will the dealership fix this for free cus its a factory defect?

[HondaRider250]

nope they havent recalled yet, were all hoping they do cause its obviuosly a universal problem to all of the kfx/dvx/z engines

[Flynbryan19]

Picking up mine from the Dealer today. My service tech has been real cool to work with. There has never been any difficulties having it taken care of.

Hopefully the magnesium safe coolant will take care of it....... Time will tell..... All I know is I'm going riding.:blah:

[Colby@C&DRacing]

I have a cannondale on the bench right now that had engine ice in it and the water pump was full of the gel?? Engine ice uses deionized water, so do motorex, they make a concentrate that says it is for use in modern aluminum atv engines but no mention of mag. The maxima Coolanol says it is safe for both aluminum and magnesium engines.

Just my .02 on the engine ice don't get me wrong I use it in all my honda's.

[redrunner]

Well here is mine. Colby I am going to use Evans, it has no water.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/redrunner/clutchcover1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v619/redrunner/clutchcover2.jpg

[Flynbryan19]

From what I've heard the key to using a coolant with de-ionized water is to change it OFTEN. The de-ionized water will work, but for only a limited time. Somehow the de-ionized water becomes contaminated, and the corrosion process starts again......

I know one thing too that has been stressed strongly for the de-ionized water coolant to work is that the old coolant has to be VERY well flushed out of the system. Any traces of the old contaminated coolant will only further encourage the corrosion. I'm going to try it for a while, but I will probably end up going with Evans coolant before long.

[MoToX199]

i pulled my cover off todayand the same thing,i just got itback fromits 40hr service,i went down tomy arctic cat dealer and theycalled up arctic direct while i was there,he talked to the arctic cat rep. and said that the rep. had no clue that some thing was goin on with them,my dealersaid they were goin tocall up suzuki direct tomorrow becuase the dvx has the same motor as a z400,so i will find out tomorrow what my dealer is goin to do about it,they said they would probably end up changing the side case to the 03 kind,or my dealer said that if suzuki doesnt fix it,that they would take a brand new 03 kfx mtotr and swap mine out for that for free,lol so either way i have no complaints

[MoToX199]

sorry for the crappy typing,i got one of these dam split keyboards today