Best Ignition System Setup for 450R

[04'400ex'er]

I know that there are many different ignition system setups for the 450r to pick from but what setup yealds the most power picking from the Dyna FS, Vortex, or the CRF ignition? or is there another type that is more powerful? Basically i am wanting the pros and cons of these ignitions and what would be the best choice for producing the highest HP numbers.

[R3Concepts]

CRF for sure..Its a Honda OEM part, and for seat of the pants, good for maybe up to 5 hp, its well worth it.

[kyex40047]

If its for an 04 - 05, the crf is not the best. Dyna is pretty good. I was told that VC put a crf on their quad and it lost power. The Crf is ment for a shorter stroke. Kind of like the 06 450r.

[04'400ex'er]

It will be for an 06' 450R. I have herd good stuff about the CRF on the 04's ond 05's.
Ok well when you tell me the CRF what all is contained in this setup? I am pretty sure you need a different stator correct? How would I go about getting a CRF ignition, through Planet honda maybe? or are you all running the Trail Tech ignition or other brand CRF ignition.

[kyex40047]

Get one through trail tech. It comes with everything you need.

[04'400ex'er]

I have been reading on trail tech's web site and am discouraged at the $700 price tag of their kit. Does anybody out there have any experience using the -4 trail tech flywheel with the dyna or vortex ignition? the added rpm from the crf cdi and the lightened flywheel are the only areas of the kit that is giving the power gain on the CRF kit right? or is there something else that is adding the power. I need alot of education in this subject...

[Airik79mx]

Originally posted by R3Concepts
CRF for sure..Its a Honda OEM part, and for seat of the pants, good for maybe up to 5 hp, its well worth it.

The ignition is like the FCR carb. No HP gain, it just feels better.

[#1speedbump]

When it cam time for me to buy my iginition or new rev box I waivered between the CRF and Dyna. At first i ordered the CRF but after reading both John and Kgb's test results and seeing it actually loses power I went with the Dyna. It only shows a small gain but a gain is a gain, coupled with a Tt -4 flywheel i think the Dyna will be sweet.

FYI, there was a Dyna for sale on 450hq about a week or so ago.

[HUNTSALOT]

Originally posted by #1speedbump
When it cam time for me to buy my iginition or new rev box I waivered between the CRF and Dyna. At first i ordered the CRF but after reading both John and Kgb's test results and seeing it actually loses power I went with the Dyna. It only shows a small gain but a gain is a gain, coupled with a Tt -4 flywheel i think the Dyna will be sweet.

FYI, there was a Dyna for sale on 450hq about a week or so ago.

Are you talking about the loss John said after he cut his pipe shorter? I have the crf on my bike and it pulls like a bat out of hell I am very happy with my setup. You can see the video of my bike.
http://videos.streetfire.net/player.aspx?f...06-699A60CA4217
My bike is stock bore stock gearing stock swinger. I do have the crf ing web cam. We just got done putting it together 2 days before this video.

[#1speedbump]

Hunts, Yes I am speaking about those runs. NO they are not a great comparison due to him cutting the pipe. However KGB did some runs and he to showed a loss, although I dont recall it being a major loss.

link doesnt go directly to a video of you. Although i believe it has been posted elsewhere.


I guess its all in your wallet. If droppin 7 bens isnt a big deal then try the CRF. I already have close to 3k in my engine and thats enough for now. Personally I will wait untill I get my engine back fron Dan and do some dyno runs here locally with the Dyna and then I will try to borrow someones Crf set up and give it a try. I still dont see it being a big enough difference to warrant the added expense.

[hawk-trx]

if your looking for hp gain then the tokyo mod vortex is what you want. they run around $400.00 and will give you 1hp maybe slightly more.

the dyna will give you about .5 hp gain and cost less.

the crf will show no gain in hp but will/should give you better holeshot quickness.

a -4 flywheel will help the other two in quickness as well.

the vortex will show no hp gain just give you a higher rev limit.

mixxers bike did not show a loss with the crf from the -4 and dyna setup. he thought it did at first then retested to find both setups were down 1.5 hp from earlier base runs.

[HUNTSALOT]

Sorry here it is http://videos.streetfire.net/player.aspx?fileid=11FB3CBE-1B2E-4A75-AE06-699A60CA4217

[04'400ex'er]

Originally posted by hawk-trx
if your looking for hp gain then the tokyo mod vortex is what you want. they run around $400.00 and will give you 1hp maybe slightly more.

the dyna will give you about .5 hp gain and cost less.

the crf will show no gain in hp but will/should give you better holeshot quickness.

a -4 flywheel will help the other two in quickness as well.

the vortex will show no hp gain just give you a higher rev limit.

mixxers bike did not show a loss with the crf from the -4 and dyna setup. he thought it did at first then retested to find both setups were down 1.5 hp from earlier base runs. So the vortex ignition will do nothing more than increase the rev limeter, despite the 10 on the fly adjustable ignition curves? And the Dyna has a better seat of the pants feel than the Vortex also? I have pretty much ruled out the TTCRF setup due to the price. I think what I am going to do is buy the Trail Tech -4 TRX flywheel to compliment either the Dyna FS or the Vortex. I am just undecided on which ignition between the Dyna and Vortex. I like the idea of having a handlebar mounted ignition curve adjuster. The Vortex seems more adjustable than the dyna at this point...

[Ralph.nl]

Dynatek has also the possibility to add a handlebar switch, you have to connect a switch to two wires.


Can I add a handlebar switch?
Yes. A handlebar switch can be added to the curve switch wiring, using the wiring diagram shown below. When there is continuity across the two leads of the handlebar switch, Curve 1 will be selected. When there is not continuity across the handlebar switch, the curve that is selected by the Curve Selector Switch will be the one that is used.

http://www.dynaonline.com/english/faq/css.jpg

[kgbg]

CRF for sure..Its a Honda OEM part, and for seat of the pants, good for maybe up to 5 hp, its well worth it.
Thats no accurate.
I have tested it on a few different applications (500R, 450R, aand another 450R) and it shows nothing on the dyno, in fact it looses a bit of TQ.
It does feel faster in certain situations, I have not been able to prove that it is though, real life situations are near imposible to detect such a small difference.
I do not know of anyone who has seen any increase over stock CDI (other than rpm) with this or any CDI system that amounts to more than 1 hp. 1 hp is +/- the margin of error when doing these kind of tests.
While it is a Honda part, its not "designed" for this quad. It also requires you to have someone who is not Honda modify your OEM Honda parts.
IF your not a rev limiter rider, stock works pretty well.

[926x]

i have an 04 450r with stock carb 13.5 comp. curtis sparks aggressive drop in cam. i went with the tokyo mods ignition. it is a vortex ignition that has been remapped. you can feel a differance just by installing the product pending on which curve you choose to go with. the ignition is very flexable.

[Honda]

So if I put the CRF ignition on the 2004-2005 TRX, what am I going to see? And what year CRF is best?

higher rev limit? loss of torque.........?

Is it a plug and play mod, or does it require some work to install?

What If i don't want a fancy, exspensive box.......maybe just a raised rpm limit?

[R3Concepts]

Then we stand corrected..We've seen as much as 5 hp reported in some situations..But all results will vary granted..The TRX is done making power by the time is hits the CRF rev limit of 11200, but I see the gains more in the flywheel..The -4 with a "box" and the CRF are night and day difference. I went for the track record and the CRF was what I thought was the way to go, and with my 450R not loosing a holeshot or hill race I still think its the way to go. But then again some of the Pros run Tokyo Mods CRF ignitions so maybe thats the way to go.

[desratt]

I run a -4 tt flywheel with a dyna. I also have a vortex. I like the dyna better.

he said this was for an 06. is anyone sure if any of these will work on an 06?

[04'400ex'er]

Originally posted by desratt
I run a -4 tt flywheel with a dyna. I also have a vortex. I like the dyna better.

he said this was for an 06. is anyone sure if any of these will work on an 06? This is what i am looking for. what is it about the dyna that makes you like it over the Vortex? Is the Vortex you have just the standard vortex or is it a Tokyo mod? Everyone on here seems to like the Dyna so i am leaning to the Dyna but would like more info on the Tokyo Mod Vortex ignition. Where can i get information on the Tokyo mod vortex ignition and how much do they run?

[khen]

I have the Tokyo mods and I'm pleased with it, but more because the extra revs than the power gain.. If you have an '06, I would just do the HRC kit with the increased rev limit harness or just clip the wire in the stock harness to raise the limit.

[trailtech]

I have more people reporting significant gains on the CRF ignition than reporting no gains (in fact all the no-gain claims are here in this post). With the recent internet claims of no gains, I question what is happening. It may just depend on existing mods. Too many variables to pin it down.

One thing that speaks volumes and leaves no questions in my mind are several hundered CRF ignitions running out there right now - rideability for the CRF ignition is hands down the best of all the above mentioned mods. Without my CRF ignition, I would rather ride my YFZ.

These notes are my opinion only. Your need to look at all the facts/opinions.... and make your own decisions.

[HUNTSALOT]

Originally posted by trailtech
I have more people reporting significant gains on the CRF ignition than reporting no gains (in fact all the no-gain claims are here in this post). With the recent internet claims of no gains, I question what is happening. It may just depend on existing mods. Too many variables to pin it down.

One thing that speaks volumes and leaves no questions in my mind are several hundered CRF ignitions running out there right now - rideability for the CRF ignition is hands down the best of all the above mentioned mods. Without my CRF ignition, I would rather ride my YFZ.

These notes are my opinion only. Your need to look at all the facts/opinions.... and make your own decisions.

I agree with you. I have not yet dynoed my bike but as in the video of mine my bike is running very well and its from the help of the CRF ing. I would like to thank trailtech for making a good very easy to install product for a great price.

[desratt]

I haven't tried the tokyo mods.

and the reson I ended up going with a -4 dyna combo over the crf ignition is cause of the program ability. I am constantly changing set ups. I have blown 2 520 kits now. and am back down to stock displacement. and I like to have custom programs for every set up.

with the crf ignition you use a oem honda curve for a crf.

[04'400ex'er]

Thanks for the posts guys. Is there any place to purchase a TT CRF ignition besides the TT website? Is there any other dealers for this product? Also where have the Tokyo mod Vortexes been purchased at?

[kgbg]

I think I better point out that the Dyno measures 5th gear WOT.

The CRF Ignition "feels" faster, on all three quads I have ridden with it on there, including my personal 500R (which I still have it installed on).
Like I said, its very hard to measure the differences in a real world riding application, when thery are a few HP at the max.
I do know that all the engine builders I have talked to all have seen more power with more flywheel, not less, but again, what the dyno measures and what the butt feels are two diferent things.

I will have the oppertunity to test both set ups (Dyna and CRF) back to back onthe sand on Turkey day, so I shoule be able to give some solid numbers.

What does the Trail Tech dyno testing say?

There is no doubt that the TT set up is the way to go for the CRF ignition set up.

I bought my personal CRF set up before TT had it available, so I had to deal with some issues to make it work, but I got it to work.

[370kingR]

I really felt a BIG difference in my motor with the crf ignition. Simply put, if it doesnt make more power, it sure feels like it and im not trading back to the stock ignition.

I had both the standard Vortex and the Tokyo modded one and i dont care for either one of them personally. Just not worth the money. Perhaps if someone knew how to properly set the timing curve specific to my engine setup it would have been better. I believe they set it up to be user freindly and not take it right to the edge or people might get bad results and give it a bad name.

I dynoed every curve of the tokyo modded box and there was very little difference between them. ( curves that did about the same thing, gained no aditional power, just revs. Torque curves, top end curves.....B.S.

[trailtech]

kgbg,

We do not have an inertial dyno that could properly measure the benifits of the CRF Ignition. We heve been discussing how best to provide accurate data on gains that should be expected. As this topic suggests, we need this to give proper guidance.

[R3Concepts]

When I took my bike to get dynoed right after we did the CRf ign. on it, the dyno tester didnt know about it..He pulled my bike in 3rd, and he pinned it, and he got this weird look on his face.." Whats done to this thing? Its the fastest revving 450 Ive had on here"

Its just doesnt seem possible for this not to be the way to go, my bike launches harder then any other bike we have done, and I think mainly its due to the CRF ign. Besides its fun to half-hill the other 450s, especially when they stop you "520 kit huh?" "No, stock bore" "Oh its a stroker" "Nope, stock stroke" "Holy sh**"

[Airik79mx]

I'm still wondering why baldwin used the crf ignition last year but not this year on Farr's motor. I would think the crf would be the way to go also.

[Ralph.nl]

Where can I buy a CRF CDI?

[R3Concepts]

Its not persay the CDI that makes the difference IMO its the -14 flywheel, thats alot of weight, not to mention its almost an inch smaller in diameter..TT is the best place to buy the CRF ign.

[Ralph.nl]

Thanks :)

[jjk450]

Originally posted by trailtech
kgbg,

We do not have an inertial dyno that could properly measure the benifits of the CRF Ignition. We heve been discussing how best to provide accurate data on gains that should be expected. As this topic suggests, we need this to give proper guidance.

I have done a fair amount of testing on the dynojet - the results were inconclusive.
Combo's tested:
Vortex with stock flywheel
Tokyo mods with stock flywheel
CRF with stock CRF CDI and light flywheel
CRF with Tokyo mods
Various combos of custom curves on both CRF and TRX.

Bottom line everything is better than stock (primarily due to rev limit) all other results in round off error. The true test would be acceleration testing or lap time testing on a closed circuit. Kind of hard to do as the conversion back and forth is not so easy.

This should not be a great surprise for everyone though. Not all modifications result in HP and torque increases.

I can't say enough about the customer support and responsiveness of Trail Tech. Great company. From my perspective the bottom line - is if you got an aftermarket set up stay with it. If you are in the market for a new ignition - you should definitely consider the CRF, but all of the choices outlined above (including dynatek) are good ones.