416 or 440???

[400EXPIMP]

Heres the deal, I have a 2001 400ex that has to go faster. I love it to death but it really needs some more top speed because, lets face it, 400ex's are slow. I've heard that the 416 kit is better than the 440, but I thought that there was "no replacement for desplacement". Along with either kit, I will be getting K&N air filter, dynojet kit, WB E-series exhaust, one up front sprocket and a WB spring kit. I also would like to know what cam to use, should I go WB or XR400??? And lastly, are rev kits any good, I've heard some bad things about them...thanks in advance.
This site RULES!!

[JhallettEX]

Forget about both those cams and go with the Hotcams stage 2 cam. Give C&D racing a call @ 308-696-7805 Talk to Dusty about a package deal, there are really good people tell them I sent ya.

[redrider05]

do you just want speed or all around power cause if you want
all around power go with a web cam with the grind of 450/451
thats what i have in mine and it made it better all around even in top end

[JhallettEX]

Or you can just go with the stage 2 from Hotcams, same thing as the above mentioned cam, only have the price.

[ExVillin400]

the 416 will give you more speed and the 440 will give you more torq. i ride with 2 guys that have a 416 and a 440. the 416 wins every time. and about the pipe. get the sparks racing complete system, its made for engines that are rebuilt.

Ok, why put a engine kit?????? if you want more top speed, change your gearing, lot cheaper and easier

[Scott]

look at the sig, this guys another fake. This topic has been beat to death, and so he posts it again.

Someone thinks it's amusing to create a new user profile, log on, and post some topic to try to start a bunch of bickering. There are several posts by new members with 1 post that are all subjects/questions that will do nothing but start arguements.

Anyone have any ideas on how to find the true identity of the knucklehead that's doing this?

[CR125Rider]

I hear the 416 kit gives more acceleration and torque, since it can rev faster. And the 440 kit gives more top end and mid range. and i hear the 440 kit isn't as reliable as the 416 kit. So i'd go for the 416 kit.

[400EXPIMP]

hey Scott, how bout you go eat a nice bowl of ****! How do you figure that I'm a fake?? I've spent a lot of time as a visitor on this site and I cant say I've read a thread that has answered my question about the difference between 416 or 440 so I thought it was about time I posted something. So has this topic been beat to death?? As far as I see it, who gives a flying ****, you might as well shut the forum down if I cant post a question about the bore kits, I'm sure there'll be a lot more to come from a lot of other people. Now who's the idiot???...so how about you comb it buddy, as for everyone else who showed some decency to answer my question, thanks. And Jhallet, I couldnt get your links to work. Rev kits anyone??? good or bad??

[nakomis0]

You won't need a rev kit unless you are getting a 416/440 with all the trimmings.

JhallettEX , is C&D racing giving you head or something. Heck man I like Magics Racing and thier prices are better than C&D but I don't mention them that often. Not flaming , just wanted to use the word 'head'

:D

[Nausty]

umm if top speed is what your wanting the stock motor can definitely pull it but its just that 5th gear isn't tall enough. btw top speed means jack in a sport quad and you rarely use it.

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by 400EXPIMP
hey Scott, how bout you go eat a nice bowl of ****! How do you figure that I'm a fake?? I've spent a lot of time as a visitor on this site and I cant say I've read a thread that has answered my question about the difference between 416 or 440 so I thought it was about time I posted something. So has this topic been beat to death?? As far as I see it, who gives a flying ****, you might as well shut the forum down if I cant post a question about the bore kits, I'm sure there'll be a lot more to come from a lot of other people. Now who's the idiot???...so how about you comb it buddy, as for everyone else who showed some decency to answer my question, thanks. And Jhallet, I couldnt get your links to work. Rev kits anyone??? good or bad??

good job, i think it's people like scott who start the sh*t

if i had a question, i would just ask it, i wouldn't go searching for an old post, cause it's easier to start a new one, and the old post might be old info

[Smoker]

If you have a question, ask it, that's why this site is here. If it's a repeat, don't read it. I also try to answer my own questions by using the search, you end up learning more than you would by starting a new post. As far as the Hotcams Stage 2 the grind numbers are close to a lot of the cams out there. It might make better power in different places but honestly, only the dyno can tell. Every other post doesn't need to reference the golden cam sent from heaven, really!

Lift Duration@.050"Lift
Intake Exhaust Intake Exhaust
stock 400EX cam .316 .302 234 238
XR400 .326 .321 240 244
HRC .350 .339 254 256
GT Thunder .350 .345 256 256
WB Track .350 .345 256 256
WEB 450/451 .350 .345 256 256
WEB 479 .378 .378 250 250
WB All Around .345 .335 240 248
HOT/stg1 .354 .354 244 244
HOT/stg2 .346 .346 254 254
(I got these number off the site, so don't give me sh*t if they don't make everyone happy)
:p

Well some more cam specs there.

Looks like everyone can agree that Web makes a lot of cams for the guys who like to rebox and rename them.

By the specs alone the web 450/451 would outperform the stage2 due to the additional lift and duration. Before anyone gets freaked out by this lets assume that the balance of the motor work was to favor the cam selected.

Also the specs on the stage1 are not as advertized. The lift is closer to the stage2 and that stinks, especialy if you were looking for the additional lift as I was.

And I like to use the word head also, so hallett is the head good?

Sorry but forgot to answer the 416 v/s 440 question.

You should keep an open mind to what you hear and remember that you will hear get a this or that from someone who has that same set up so be subjective.

You had better check out the ask mickey dunlap stuff also its a great bunch of info.

And I would recomend getting the 416 as they make much more power than the 440 :rolleyes:

The one reasons that I would even consider the smaller bores (since you will have everything apart anyway) is the expense or the fact that most 440's will need some extra work to get them perform properly.

The info is on this site just check around and use the search.

[400EXPIMP]

Thanks a bunch guys. I didnt even know there was a search on this site, good idea who ever thought of that one. And Nausty, sure I want to go fast but I still want to get there in decent time too. As for Jhallet, do they swallow???

[Giz400ex]

I'm trying to understand why a 416 would be faster than a 440? and whats the difference between a 406 and 416 both with 450/451 grind cams??? Difference meaning overall as low,mid,and top end.

[nakomis0]

Originally posted by 440EX4me
Sorry but forgot to answer the 416 v/s 440 question.

You should keep an open mind to what you hear and remember that you will hear get a this or that from someone who has that same set up so be subjective.

You had better check out the ask mickey dunlap stuff also its a great bunch of info.

And I would recomend getting the 416 as they make much more power than the 440 :rolleyes:

The one reasons that I would even consider the smaller bores (since you will have everything apart anyway) is the expense or the fact that most 440's will need some extra work to get them perform properly.

The info is on this site just check around and use the search.

I'm sure your joking about the 416 making much more power than the 440. .

440's don't need extra work to make them perform properly?:huh ... they need extra work to 'install' them. Need to get a sleeve put in and also grind down a few dowels. Other than that there isn't any extra work needed.

these guys get confused easily 440ex4me:D

I'm trying to understand why a 416 would be faster than a 440?
Because so many people want to think so.:D and the serious answer is>>> so am I.


I'm sure your joking about the 416 making much more power than the 440.
Thats what everyone keeps telling me and should I give up any power advantage or maybe I just dont want to see anything but raptors and banshees pinned in 5th.


440's don't need extra work to make them perform properly? ... they need extra work to 'install' them. Need to get a sleeve put in and also grind down a few dowels. Other than that there isn't any extra work needed.
I wish that were all it takes. I have been lucky and the ex I purchased used had the 440 in it, but even after many hours of setting it up its still not right. Check out a thread "did you deck the cylinder" and that should point out most of the problems in detail. In general the problem is with the mfg(mostly wiseco but some IMS/JE) set up for compression ratios and piston pin heights etc, check out that thread it is good.

My problems seem to have only started with the kit and are still being worked out. Everything from the comp ratio and a bad ring set to the valves seating has kept me busy, oh and now a cam that was smaller than the specs will give me just one more excuse to tear it apart again. (I can do this in my sleep by now)




these guys get confused easily 440ex4me
Know you know why the overbore 416 is so much faster than the big bore 440.

I will try to say this once more: there is no replacement for displacement. And dont waste my time with quicker reving smaller bores. If the bigger displacement motor is set up properly then it will produce more power than a smaller sized motor period. And yes I am assumeing that all other variables are the same like head work, intake + exh etc.


As for Jhallet, do they swallow???
I think you have this backwards, but only John knows for sure :devil JK

[Giz400ex]

In order to make a 440 work properly what is needed to be done besides harden rockers and different cam???...........

GIZ,

Check out the "have you decked the cyl" thread and the micky dunlap stuff in the tech section and then lets get into it.

The 250.00 for hard faced rockers wont make it any faster. Any perf motor is going to need the right cam, sometimes choosing it isnt so easy.

[Giz400ex]

I know that harden rockers won't make it faster!!! What I was asking was what else needs to be done besides those 2 things and sleeving . But, I will check out that thread with Micky!

Check out the two threads and that should answer most of your questrions but you may end eith a few new one's instead.

[Scott]

Not worth the time to argue about... This looked like another thread posted by a phantom member just to start crap. If it's not, fine I appologize.

I will say this, some of the "advice" in this particular thread is more hear-say than knowledge or experience. Read the thread peviously mentioned about decking the cylinder or use the seach function to answer your questions about rebuilding the engines.

Hardfacing the rockers is something that SHOULD be done if you go to a more aggressive cam than stock. If you decide not to, I reccomend you start saving your money now, because you'll be buying a new cam and rockers shortly.

Mickey Dunlop, TC, and a third engine builder (can't remember exactly, but I thought it was Curtis Sparks) already answered the engine building questions listed in this thread. Leo is the one that posted their responses.