450r vs. yfz450

[Piker450]

i just got back from my buddys house, yep he blew up his 450. he's had it less than 6 months. my yfz is still running strong. oh and he was cussing saying he should have bought a yamaha. buy the way dose anyone know where to get a cylinder replated?

[250r4life]

thats definately not the norm- he must had done somn wrong... honda is known for their reliability. dont get me wrong, for the 450s i would prefer the yamaha, but as far as reliability i would trust the honda more... but either way its not normal to blow a 6 month old machine, so i imagine he did somn wrong with it...

[250r4life]

why dont you lick my nut sack

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by fitethesystom
UH.....ITS CALLED A LEMON PIPSQUEEK.

Why don't you get a job at Honda if you their so great? lol

Just because something happened within 6 months doesn't mean it's a lemon. The guy could've abused it and not changed the oil or dirt might've gotten through the filter if he didn't oil it properly or many other things. I wouldn't jump down the guy's throat just for saying that something is wrong for it to break down after 6 months, because no machine should break down after 6 months if it's taken care of. Unless of course there was a mechanical flaw from the factory (lemon).

[aroracer72]

Yeah, and ive seen 3 05 and 06 yfz's snap their rods in half and throw the bottom end rod pin. But i dont post hinting that they are junk.

Honda's, depending on the rider, are known to burn off motor oil slowly, but do burn it off. Did he change his oil????......if soo...how often???...did he top off his oil or ever check it in between changes???.......more importnatly you have to keep the stock filter(and aftermarket) clean and oiled fairly often..id say every two weekend of play riding in yards, or after each day of racing.

My guess is he's is a weekend warrior, who is a low maintenance guy, and changed the oil every now and then, cleaned the filter when it got to the point of being dirt dry or hard to start(lol), and hardly ever changed the oil filter.

Also, he ever adjsut the valves????...if soo, how many times????

(im not trying to be harsh, but protecting honda's rep...i do the exact thing for yamaha's when they're bad mouthed)
CHAD

my bet is lack of valve adjsutments and/or filter cleaning.

[250r4life]

oh yah, ps to my nutsack licking comment...
pipsqueek huh, i think somebody who rides a 400ex is a little light in the jock to be calling me a pipsqueek...

[Bender]

I would think any quad that blows in 6 months could be user error or a defect. It's not the norm for any of the big companies. If any of them built inferior products all the time, they would long be out of business.Most builders from Japan are doing very well in America (and the world) in case any one was sleeping. It's not like the 70's MX bikes, when one company was better than another year after year. You can win a race on any 450 or 400 nowadays. So your friends quad blew up, his problem I guess. So if he had a Yamaha and it blew up, would you bother to even post that, would he be crying and wishing he bought a Honda or Suzuki? I'm glad you bought a "superior" quad unlike all those fools who got suckered into 450R's.:rolleyes:

[250r4life]

my bad- you're a truck driver- you've got to be smart. what was i thinking?

[oldskoolex400]

250r do u even race

[250r4life]

i sure do, and im always up to toy with tough guys on 400exs... ive got to say though, 400ex are great bikes- i think i'll get one for my daughter when she turns 12. course then i'll have to sell it and get a real bike for her by the time she is 14:devil:

[aroracer72]

^^^^^^
Im trying to be nice and not laugh, because that was hillarious.
CHAD

[oldskoolex400]

c'mon man why u wanna downgrade your bike sayin stuff like that 250r and 400ex have the same chassis-- not a huge difference in the power either but whatever u say man

[m1ke]

wow your one egostatic f.uck 250r

everyone BACK UP 250r4life is a certified Motorcycle mechanic!

[oldskoolex400]

man i aint sayin nuthin bad about 250rs i used to have one they are good race bikes

[m1ke]

what year 400ex oldskool?

[Piker450]

i thought this was the Yfz 450 forums. **** i guss im in the honda forums. sorry about that. i guss theres to much info on the internet because he herd that you put a 185 main jet in your quad to balance it out. but as you can see its wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so he washed out his cylinder with fuel and it wore his rings out . not saying anything bad about honda but i guss they should have up there h.p. becaused yamaha kicked there ***** both are ngreat quads but the yfz is still my pic. because you can leave it stock and still beat the honda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

[aroracer72]

This is were i post one last reply....and then leave and unsuscribe from this thread.

ARE YOU MENTALLY RETARDED!!!!????

Dirtwheels......did a test...and SHOWED A DYNO PROVING THE 450R HAD MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.... ...they even said if your looking for a power monster...THEN YOU SHOULD BUY TEH HONDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!......thats alot considering that they are bias and yamaha people.

CHAD

[oldskoolex400]

its a 2001 but hopefully i will have a yfz or 450r on the way

[aroracer72]

For 06 it doesnt matter, which ever you get it will have great power and handling.
CHAD

[stroker97]

what happened????? u posted again?????


Originally posted by aroracer72
This is were i post one last reply....and then leave and unsuscribe from this thread.

ARE YOU MENTALLY RETARDED!!!!????

Dirtwheels......did a test...and SHOWED A DYNO PROVING THE 450R HAD MORE POWER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.... ...they even said if your looking for a power monster...THEN YOU SHOULD BUY TEH HONDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!......thats alot considering that they are bias and yamaha people.

CHAD

[oldskoolex400]

what about the ltr450s how are they and what about if i go used with a 04 or 05 which is better

[stroker97]

they didn't start making them until this year

[aroracer72]

He was refferring to 04 and 05 yammie and honda 450's. And i posted again because it wasnt a argumentive reply...but rather a suggestion to someone......i wont post a reply to an argument again though.

Shure, buying an 04 or 05 would be a good idea. Ive seen teh suzuki in person, but havnt been able to ride one yet. To be honest, i dont like it, the design is idiotic in some places. The battery location is DUMB, and other stuff is jsut poorly located and positioned. Id go with a modified 04 or 05, but make shrue you get one with a fresh engine and some other mods. (thats what i would do......and its all i ever do...and it works out for me).
CHAD

[stroker97]

it doesnt say that does it!!!!!!!


Originally posted by oldskoolex400
what about the ltr450s how are they and what about if i go used with a 04 or 05 which is better

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by oldskoolex400
c'mon man why u wanna downgrade your bike sayin stuff like that 250r and 400ex have the same chassis-- not a huge difference in the power either but whatever u say man

Too bad there is a difference in frames. 250R's do handle better, that's why all the aftermarket companies use 250R geometry for their frames, not 400ex. And there is a difference in power, I would take a 250R over a 400ex anyday.

[stroker97]

he is right on the frames. but then most people that buy aftermarket frames then put a real motor in it not a 250r!!!!


Originally posted by Toadz400
Too bad there is a difference in frames. 250R's do handle better, that's why all the aftermarket companies use 250R geometry for their frames, not 400ex. And there is a difference in power, I would take a 250R over a 400ex anyday.

[stroker97]

i thought u were done here what happened y do u keep posting


Originally posted by aroracer72
He was refferring to 04 and 05 yammie and honda 450's. And i posted again because it wasnt a argumentive reply...but rather a suggestion to someone......i wont post a reply to an argument again though.

Shure, buying an 04 or 05 would be a good idea. Ive seen teh suzuki in person, but havnt been able to ride one yet. To be honest, i dont like it, the design is idiotic in some places. The battery location is DUMB, and other stuff is jsut poorly located and positioned. Id go with a modified 04 or 05, but make shrue you get one with a fresh engine and some other mods. (thats what i would do......and its all i ever do...and it works out for me).
CHAD

[oldskoolex400]

what i meant about the frames was they are alot alike not exactly u can use parts off a 250 shocks and a arms axle etc and yea i agree with stroker97 if your gonna get a 2 stroke get a ole cr500 engine

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by stroker97
he is right on the frames. but then most people that buy aftermarket frames then put a real motor in it not a 250r!!!!

What's wrong with the 250R engine? If I could get a 250R for cheap I'd keep it and build it up along with setting the engine up like the CR250. The 250R is a great quad, fun to ride and easy to maintain. I don't see why everyone bad mouths it just because of these newer technology 4-strokes out there. Set the 250R up like the dirtbike engine and you've got yourself some serious competetion. And as for 4-strokes being so much better than 2-strokes, has anyone been to any dirtbike freestyle shows lately? I only saw maybe 2-3 4-strokes out of at least 10-15 dirtbikes.


what i meant about the frames was they are alot alike not exactly u can use parts off a 250 shocks and a arms axle etc and yea i agree with stroker97 if your gonna get a 2 stroke get a ole cr500 engine

And can't you use some of those parts from the 400ex onto the 450R? I've seen it done. So in your world, wouldn't that mean that the 450R frame is the same thing as the 250R frame just because some things can be swapped? I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, it's just that some of your logic doesn't make sense and you're not using hard facts in what you're saying, just what you think is right.

[oldskoolex400]

yea true i still like 2 strokes easier to rebuild u can have one back together faster without as much work i would still own one if i had the money and still like to have one if i found a deal on one but around here the cheapest i can find one for is about 4 grand

[oldskoolex400]

and when in the he11 did i say the frame was the same i said you can use a arms and swingarms axles shocks u can fab anything pretty much to make it fit its like puttin yfz450 shocks on a 300ex grind on the shocks and u can make it fit look on ebay or somn and there are 600cc motor on a frame so basically in my world u can make about anything fit on an atv

[stroker97]

yea but the problem is u have to rebuild them 4 times more often then a 4 stroke


Originally posted by oldskoolex400
yea true i still like 2 strokes easier to rebuild u can have one back together faster without as much work i would still own one if i had the money and still like to have one if i found a deal on one but around here the cheapest i can find one for is about 4 grand

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by stroker97
yea but the problem is u have to rebuild them 4 times more often then a 4 stroke

Where are you getting your facts from? :confused:

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by oldskoolex400
and when in the he11 did i say the frame was the same

Haha, I love this. Here it is:


c'mon man why u wanna downgrade your bike sayin stuff like that 250r and 400ex have the same chassis -- not a huge difference in the power either but whatever u say man

[stroker97]

i have a 250r


Originally posted by Toadz400
Where are you getting your facts from? :confused:

[oldskoolex400]

toadz your a genious i am talkin about a 450r and a 400ex frame and i have had a 250r look at service honda o wise1 where u use a 400ex frame and a cr250 radiator and engine

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by oldskoolex400
toadz your a genious i am talkin about a 450r and a 400ex frame and i have had a 250r look at service honda o wise1 where u use a 400ex frame and a cr250 radiator and engine

What are you talking about? You were talking about the 250R frame and 400ex frame being the exact same. I was just making a point talking about the 400ex frame and 450R frame.

And as for stroker97, I think you need to learn how to take care of your machines. If you take care of anything it'll last a long time, unless there is mechanical flaws. A 2-stroke can last just as long as a 4-stroke with the proper maintenence. I know people who haven't rebuilt their 2-stroke in ten years and it still has good compression and is running great.

[250r4life]

no, the 250r is a piece of crap and has to be rebuilt all the time. lets see, mine is an 1989, and the engine was untouched until summer of 05, so 16 years... and then i touched the engine not cuz i had to (it ran like a champ) but cuz i wanted to. so as soon as any of these new 450s go 16 years you can talk, but i think youre about 13 years too early... and like toad said, if you learn how to build your bike correctly and maintain it, it will last a long time. even when i had a banshee, which are notroious for breaking down, i didnt have problems with it... maybe cuz i know how to maintaiin them...

and as far as the cr500 engine, anybody who knows anything knows they are a joke... trx 500rs always suck... they are just big hack jobs that break motor mounts and yada yada yada... why does a 250r need a 500, with a 265 kit set up right i rarely get beat by the 450s... granted there is always gunna be somebody faster, but with a 265 or even a 310, there isnt going to be a whole lot out there that can beat you... that is if you know how to ride...

[oldskoolex400]

yea 2 strokes are underrated i had mine for almost 9 years and rebuilt it twice bc when the lake when down we took our bikes down in it but thats when i was young a stupid and the 450r s and yfzs 400exs will prolly not be around or as popular as a 250r is 20 years later but about the cr500 engine breaking motor mounts yes i have seen it happen but i have also seen most of em last along time if you know what your doing then u shouldnt have any problem with them

[aroracer72]

lol......jsut cause stroker has a 250r..doesnt mean that he knows anything about them.

And if you highly modify a 250r, with the right parts, and the right knowledge and assembly, then it will outlast a 4 stroke of the same caliber of modifications. And a 250r engine is 1/4 the price to modify then a 4 stroke. But its old technology..thats why it is dying off. For less then 2 grand i can get a RELIABLE and LINEAR 65 hp out of a 250r. You couldnt get 55hp out of a 4 stroke for 2000, well maybe..but it wouldnt be top notch stuff.

And case proven, nothing today handles as good as a 250r..and if you disagree then your not a real or good rider.

And jsut cause he didnt clearify what quads he was reffering too when 2001 said the stuff about 04 and 05's, doesnt mean you cant use a thing called your brain and figure it out yourself.
CHAD

[aroracer72]

And the only thing identical between the 400ex and 250r frames are the front ends. Behind that...it gets a lot lower and stable in the 250r frame geometry.
CHAD

[stroker97]

i know u guys all think your pro builders and everyone knows nothing

[oldskoolex400]

would yall get aftermarket arms or axle for a 400ex to make it stabler

[MXracer16]

Originally posted by Toadz400
What's wrong with the 250R engine? If I could get a 250R for cheap I'd keep it and build it up along with setting the engine up like the CR250. The 250R is a great quad, fun to ride and easy to maintain. I don't see why everyone bad mouths it just because of these newer technology 4-strokes out there. Set the 250R up like the dirtbike engine and you've got yourself some serious competetion. And as for 4-strokes being so much better than 2-strokes, has anyone been to any dirtbike freestyle shows lately? I only saw maybe 2-3 4-strokes out of at least 10-15 dirtbikes.

The only reason that is is because 2-strokes can run in any direction, even if there upside-down. A 4-stroke will die alot easier and cant run upside-down, hence there are more 2-strokes.

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by MXracer16
The only reason that is is because 2-strokes can run in any direction, even if there upside-down. A 4-stroke will die alot easier and cant run upside-down, hence there are more 2-strokes.

Yet 4-strokes quad do just fine for freestyle? And actually at the last freestyle show, more of the 4-strokes were doing backflips than 2-strokes. One of them was a CR250F. I believe it's more about preference and when it's not that, it's what they're being sponsored to ride.

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by aroracer72
And case proven, nothing today handles as good as a 250r..and if you disagree then your not a real or good rider.

Anyone who thinks that any frame will handle as well as a 250R geometry frame obviously doesn't know anything (unless we're talking about those crazy European frames like the Eraser, I've heard their handling is nuts). Every aftermarket frame company bases their frame off of the 250R geometry simply because it is the best.


i know u guys all think your pro builders and everyone knows nothing

Looking at all the posts in this thread, it seems that you are one of the people that know the least about anything. Rebuilding a 2-stroke 4 times more than a 4-stroke? Please...
250R engine not being a real engine? Please...

It seems that everyone is just throwing out every idiot thing they can possibly think of and I'm sick of even reading it, let alone replying to it. Guess I should just stay out of this from now on. I'm guessing one of you will probably flame me for that too.

[250r4life]

i appreciate it... its nice to see someone that has any idea what they are talking about... i love it how all the guys who have owned a quad for 6 months come in here and talk like they know something...

[aroracer72]

What he meant by running upside down is if you flip the engine over and elt iit run upside down for a period of time, as in minutes or hours. He didnt mean for a split second.

And that isnt really why 250r's are dying out, its because there old quads, and when there is soemthing rand new that can be made race quality jsut as easily and in soem cases easier, no oen is gonna keep buying/racing the old ones.

And no not all of us are pro engine builders, but ive eprsonally built over 35 engines(compelte rebuilds) and have tuned over 100 top race/sport quads. So that qualifies me as a knowledgeable builder. And they all ran perfect and held together. Heck around here, if something fails on someone, im the first person they call. Im not cocky, but i do know what im talking about you thank you very much.

Come on i wanna hear some more yahoo idiot beer logic!!!!....Maybe stroker can post some more tech talk!!!!
(alright i know im starting crap, and i apologize, but i sjtu cant take it anymore).

And not all of you are idiots!!!...heck none of you are, jsut soem of you are ignorant and jsut plain dont know everything about everything.
CHAD

Btw, the quads ive rebuilt have included EVERY major race quad produced, including cannondales(very comples engine designs)

[aroracer72]

Ohh and BTW, only one quad handles as good as a 250r, and thats a cannondale with a walsh or other 250r conversion.

For you who dont know what that is, its a Racer kit that includes a new subframe, gas tank, and you run 250r seat and plastics. This makes the dale as low, planted and as good handling as a 250r. How do i know this???...because i use to own a full race 250r, and now 3 of my friends do, and they rode my stroker with the 250r conversion, and they said theres no difference between there quads and it!!!....(which is a good thing!!)
CHAD

[Legal250R]

I have owned a 250r (1988 model) since 1992. I also own an 04 (stock motor) and an 05 YFZ (full Duncan XC motor). I spent less on my 250R in the 12 years that I rode and the 3 years that I raced it than I have spent on either of my YFZ's. In my mind, the only real advantage a current production 450 4 stroke has over a well set up 250R is traction and lower OEM parts cost. My old R with a stock cylinder that is .040 over, mildly ported with a mild cool head will hold its own with any current production 4 stroke once we are up and moving. Of course a 4 stroke will always have better traction. If you have a well set up R and you know how to ride a hot running 2 stroke you can be competitive with anything out there.

I bought my first YFZ because it was the closest thing to a current production 250R. I bought my second YFZ because I so loved my first YFZ. If Honda (or Yamaha or Suzuki for that matter) brought out a powervalve, modernized 250 2 stroke quad with long travel suspension, I bet I can predict what all the pros would be riding because 2 strokes will always make more power, weigh less and be less expensive to maintain than a similar displacement 4 stroke. Unfortunately, environmental regulations will prevent us all from owning 2 strokes before long. Those of you that didn't grow up on 2 strokes will never know how great they really are; those of us that grew up on 2 strokes will mourn their passing. Let's ride.

[aroracer72]

I agree with all of what you said except the yfz being the closest. But thats my oppinnion. But good info on the rest of what you said.
CHAD:cool:

[Blizzard24]

Originally posted by Legal250R
I bought my first YFZ because it was the closest thing to a current production 250R. I bought my second YFZ because I so loved my first YFZ.

I have to agree w Legal250R, I had my 250R from 88 to 96 and stepped away from quads until 2001
in 2001 bought the Raptor- sold it 1 yr later (I hated the handling)
bought a KFX400 -Still not the handling I was used to on the R so I traded it for a Cannondale
The Dale was getting me closer but still not what the R was like.
In 04 I purchased my YFZ450 and have been in love w quads again ever since. They are a neutral handling quad that has no weird quirks, light steering, stays planted unless you want it up, and goes where you point it, much like the 250R was.
I too just purchased my 2nd one (an 06 YFZ for those same exact reasons)
these are quads that feel VERY much like the 250R's do.

[aroracer72]

Im not dissing you or calling you wrong or anything, but my friends own yfz's and 250r's and we swtich around all the tiem and the yfz feels nothing like the 250r.....except for the nuetral feeling. The 250r feels like it sits lower, and handles corners better. But for as how it feels as in wheelying/corner control they are similar. But the 250r is far stabler, a stock width 250r is as stable as a full width race yfz. At least thats how I tested it, i did repeated 4th gear pinned berm hauls and they both were stable the same, except if the 250r had the wider stance it would be poractically untippable...they are jsut awesome chassis design.
CHAD

[Legal250R]

My old R has stock length a-arms and a stock length swingarm while both YFZ's have +1 a-arms and offset wheels to bring the overall width back to stock with long travel suspension (zero preload; one Axis; one Elka). In the type of riding (trail) and racing (XC) that I do, the YFZ's are much more stable than my R. I rode behind my buddy who was riding my R this weekend on our practice XC track and it was amazing to watch how often the R would lift a wheel in turns and tip in off cambers. However, if you can keep the wheels on the ground, it will outturn both my YFZ's.

Of course, in my earlier post I said that an R with long travel suspension (which would require wider a-arms) would be competitive with anything out there. We all benefit on our modern 4 stroke quads from the lessons learned building the 250Rs that dominated racing for more than ten years.

I agree that stock the 250R handled better than anything released to date. My question is, and has always been, why couldn't one of the major manufactueres merely duplicate the R chassis with a nice hot running 4-stroke? Why mess with perfection?

[aroracer72]

Yeah, well thats different from what i experienced but thats many reasons for why that could be.

Your yfz has LT shocks front and rear???..and the 250r has stock shocks???

If soo, shocks make a quad more stable in corners and prevent two wheeling and tipping. Also, by having the wider arms, your yfz has more extended front end movement before it will two wheel. Also what tires you running on them?????

Because my friend has a stock shocked 250r(well it was), and he had 19 inch holeshot MX's. Then my friend had a brand new 05 yfz(at the time) and put on 18 inch holeshots, and a pipe, and i got to ride both in this sandy/clay mix play area. There was bowl berms, flat turns, ruts...etc.

The 250r out of the two(and the rest of the quads) was dominant in the bowl turns. It jsut railed in and railed out without hesitation. The yfz, was also awesome through these but in the bowl turns it felt like i wanted to get throw to the outside oedge of the seat. On the 250r i felt down and like i was pulled into the bottom of teh bowl, and jsut flew around it. But as for like choppy rutted corners they felt farely equal.

But the only difference i notice, it the stable feeling seating position of the 250r, and how just low you feel on it, because of how the pegs feel closer to you.


And ive always asked and demanded why the heck manufacturers dont make a 250r frame design with a 4 stroke engine!!!....Just as you think i bilieve it would be the perfect machine. My best guess is they didnt want to copy an old design, or they thought they could do better, and once made they jsut decided to stick with there designs.

But i bought my newest dale because it has the 250r conversion kit, and sits/rides/handles like a long travel full wide 250r(its full width...) but with 50hp worth of 4 stroke power. Its perfect.
CHAD

[450Redrider5]

Yea man nice YAMAHA

[aroracer72]

You just opened a whole can of worms my friend...but that does prove a viable point......even though ive only heard of a few doing that.
Chad

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by 450Redrider5
Yea man nice YAMAHA

And the point of posting the picture is....?? I can post some pictures of Honda's frames cracking for no reason, would that prove anything?

[450Redrider5]

well that frame is more than cracked, but ok post some pics of blown up honda's

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by 450Redrider5
well that frame is more than cracked, but ok post some pics of blown up honda's

Do you even know the true story behind that picture? I've seen 400ex's and Cannondales burnt to the ground, man that must mean they both suck so much!

Honda's have had just as many problems as Yamaha's and any other company. 450R's - '04's frames cracking for no reason, '05's engines seizing because of cheap main bearing, and '06's I've heard of a problem already but I can't remember it (so don't quote me on that one). There's going to be problems with every company out there, it's just how it is, no machine is perfect. So why post up pictures with no story behind it to try and make your four wheeler look better?? Because it doesn't, it just shows your true ignorance.

And I am no means a die-hard Yamaha fan. Neither am I a die-hard Honda fan or anything else. I ride what I ride, and it just so happens that right now I own a Yamaha because it suited me better. I have owned a Honda and I loved it, but I actually had more problems with it than my Yamaha.

[450Redrider5]

ok don't get your pantys in a wad:D haha j/k

[QuAdBoY4EvEr]

man, surprised the mods didnt close this yet....pointless thread that everyones arguing about nothing.

C'mon mods

[400exrider36]

Originally posted by 450Redrider5
Yea man nice YAMAHA

yeah and everyone should worry about this cause its a common problem with them yamahas...:rolleyes:

[m1ke]

*Shakes head reading the posts*

Such a lack of maturity/respect.

[400exrider36]

lol