400ex shocks on a 300ex

[rancher350rider]

could u put 400ex front and rear shocks on a 300ex or and could u put 400ex arms on it to

[ZeroLogic]

the front shocks will work only with a relocating bracket you can get one off of ebay for around 90 dollars rear shock wont fit and you can put the a arms tie rods and 400ex shocks on your front end but its sopposely not good

just use your search button and you will find all of the info you need

[rancher350rider]

cool thanks for the help

[97blaster200]

Originally posted by ZeroLogic
the front shocks will work only with a relocating bracket you can get one off of ebay for around 90 dollars rear shock wont fit and you can put the a arms tie rods and 400ex shocks on your front end but its sopposely not good

just use your search button and you will find all of the info you need


indeed.....here is a pic of mine

[Honda TRX250ex]

could someone please tell me whats so bad about the 400ex front end and not some lil kid that dont have them on their quad someone who has them on there quad thanks.

[chapmanmd]

I have a similar thread going, but I'll just tag onto this one. :)

I have had folks tell me that the "geometry" is wrong and it wont work. Someone needs to 'splain this to me.

The 400ex a arm is NOT significantly longer than the 300ex arm (Some 3/4"). The main difference, from what I see, is that the shock mounts are pushed further out which BENEFITS the 300ex as the stock shock location is too close to center and makes for a harsh ride.

Using the stock 16.5" 400ex shocks I can potentially see as a problem, but by using 15.5" shocks from a reputable aftermarket manufacturer, I could see where this could make for a NICE setup.

If I am missing something here regarding geometry, PLEASE let me know.

Thaks.

[rancher350rider]

Originally posted by 97blaster200
indeed.....here is a pic of mine
that thin k is nice can u tell me how u did all that that thing looks so cool

[MX300ex]

so far what ive heard about running it is 2 sides

1) it is twitchy
2)horrbile

2)best thing that theve done.

i do plan on running teh 400ex setup next year..ive heard more good then bad so id say do it.

[97blaster200]

Originally posted by rancher350rider
that thin k is nice can u tell me how u did all that that thing looks so cool
previous owner did it....but they sell parts on ebay to make the shocks fit.

just do a search and u will be able to find one...it wont let me post the link

[ZeroLogic]

just a quick qustion if you brought aftermarkey +2 300ex shocks would they work with 400ex stock a arms?

[8my_Cash]

i actually have it on my setup and im not a racer i do freestyle with my quad. yes i kno freestyle on a 300ex sounds stupid but my 300ex was a project and i just made it to my situation.

but any way i have the 400ex front end and it works great i jump it and i have gone on race tracks with it and i have had no problems. i think its the greatest thing i have done. its not twitchy at all its very smooth but you have to dial in everything with the shocks or you will hate the front end. just make sure its dialed and the front end will be a great investment

[reconmaster]

www.racingben.piczo.com go to my 300ex and you'll see my set up

[300WheelyKing]

I had 400's on mine and overall it makes the frontend 3 1/4 inchs wider than stock. I built my relocaters and they work great. I have had nothing but beter thing from this setup. I'm selling some 400ex shocks for 60 bucks if anybody wants them (pm me). I'm puting 250r aarms on there now though, this is only for pc reasons. If you use 250r aarms you have to make the lobes smaller so they fit. But if you get 88-89 aarms they are +1.5 +1 conpared to stock 300ex. I LOVE THESE SETUPS ON A 300EX.

[ZeroLogic]

Originally posted by ZeroLogic
just a quick qustion if you brought aftermarkey +2 300ex shocks would they work with 400ex stock a arms?

dont think anyone awnsered my qustion lol

[8my_Cash]

hmm i dunno zerologik thats a good question if anyone has an answer to that, it would be awesome, but i dont it will work probably something different in the geometry of everything, such as the position of the shockmount to the postion of the shockmount on the a arm something might be off, just a guess though

[exman]

better

[VT250X]

Originally posted by 300WheelyKing
I had 400's on mine and overall it makes the frontend 3 1/4 inchs wider than stock. I built my relocaters and they work great. I have had nothing but beter thing from this setup. I'm selling some 400ex shocks for 60 bucks if anybody wants them (pm me). I'm puting 250r aarms on there now though, this is only for pc reasons. If you use 250r aarms you have to make the lobes smaller so they fit. But if you get 88-89 aarms they are +1.5 +1 conpared to stock 300ex. I LOVE THESE SETUPS ON A 300EX.

You don't have to "make the lobes smaller" to get the 250r a-arms to mount to the 300ex. You just need to use the stock a-arm bushings from your 300EX instead of the ones on the 250R.

BTW We put a set of 250R a-arms, 400EX shocks with the relocator bracket on my buddies wife's 250X. It looks bad and handles bad I'm sorry to say.

Good luck,

LM

[300exOH]

Originally posted by VT250X

BTW We put a set of 250R a-arms, 400EX shocks with the relocator bracket on my buddies wife's 250X. It looks bad and handles bad I'm sorry to say.

Good luck,

LM

Good luck trying to get everyone to buy that little piece of info. I had the same setup and wasn't happy with it either. You'll probably get a few arguements on that. There's no replacement for a properly built front end.

[VT250X]

Originally posted by 300exOH
Good luck trying to get everyone to buy that little piece of info. I had the same setup and wasn't happy with it either. You'll probably get a few arguements on that. There's no replacement for a properly built front end.

I agree however it does have two little things going for it. It's cheap and with the issues of handling aside it does make it more stable side to side. I got the stuff to do it myslef and only after I cut the upper front fender support did I realize I had made a mistake. I took it all off right then and here and put my stock stuff back on. I kept my opinions of it silent due to the fact I had no experience with it, but after we put it on my friends wife's quad and rode it it gave me free reign to voice my opinion on here. I ended up getting a used set of Burgard +2/+1 a-arms (chrome) and a set of dual rate Works shocks with TPL and rezzies for a total of $325 bucks. All made for my quad and I'm very happy.

LM

[300exOH]

Originally posted by VT250X
I agree however it does have two little things going for it. It's cheap and with the issues of handling aside it does make it more stable side to side. I got the stuff to do it myslef and only after I cut the upper front fender support did I realize I had made a mistake. I took it all off right then and here and put my stock stuff back on. I kept my opinions of it silent due to the fact I had no experience with it, but after we put it on my friends wife's quad and rode it it gave me free reign to voice my opinion on here. I ended up getting a used set of Burgard +2/+1 a-arms (chrome) and a set of dual rate Works shocks with TPL and rezzies for a total of $325 bucks. All made for my quad and I'm very happy.

LM

Very true it was a cheap setup but IMO you get what you pay for. I rode on mine for about a year and just wasn't happy with it. I really wouldn't voice my opinion either unless I had tried it. I too have the 300ex +2+1 burgards and I noticed a huge improvement over the conversion. Much more stable at speed and it doesn't look too bad also.:devil: I still run the relocator bracket with custom built elkas and it is a great setup. Sounds like you got a great deal on a nice front end.

[chapmanmd]

Could someone please tell me what, specifically, makes the 400ex arms "bad" on a 300ex?

Im reading things like "bad handling", "looks bad"...

What does that mean? Does the steering bind? Is there significant bump steer? Wont turn?

I would really like to know.

[300exOH]

Originally posted by chapmanmd
Could someone please tell me what, specifically, makes the 400ex arms "bad" on a 300ex?

Im reading things like "bad handling", "looks bad"...

What does that mean? Does the steering bind? Is there significant bump steer? Wont turn?

I would really like to know.

In a nutshell:
1. ball joints aren't in the ideal position which can cause premature wear/breakage
2. twitchy at high speeds
3. as the a arms move through their arc the toe-in will change quite a bit causing poor handling. Mainly because the tie rods aren't positioned correctly which is what causes the bumpsteer.
4. Also the turning radius is very poor

[VT250X]

Originally posted by chapmanmd
Could someone please tell me what, specifically, makes the 400ex arms "bad" on a 300ex?

Im reading things like "bad handling", "looks bad"...

What does that mean? Does the steering bind? Is there significant bump steer? Wont turn?

I would really like to know.

Since I don't have technical knowledge in geometry or engineering I myself can't explain this to you. However of you had 2 300ex's side by side, One with the 400EX front end, shocks and relocatoir and the other with an extended front end and shocks made for it, you could see how the angles change as the suspension moves up and down and the wheels are turned. Some might be minute, but having it do that a few thousand times while your riding a trail or track adds up. I really wish that some of the brains on this forum would put together a scientific post with diagrams to explain what happens and why it has a negative effect on handling. Just saying "It won't work correctly" is not really a help. By now there are pissibly hundreds of threads on this so searching each one to find data has gotten so confusing.

The only thing I can think of probably doesn't explain the actual problem, but is akin to it.

Let's say every time you rotate your steering wheel in your car to the right your tires move to the right 3 degrees. Now let's say after each succesive revolution of the wheel your tires turn more sharply. So first is 3 degrees, second is 5 degrees, third is 7 degrees and so on. You would have to constantly jerk the wheel slower and faster as you turned back and forth. This can get really tiresome (pun). Not to mention if you hit something and had to compensate faster than you can move to counteract it. You could end up crashing. Am I makign sense? Like I said that may not explain the problem itself, but at least it kind of gives you a gist. The fluidity (actual word?) of the steering would not be constant.

I think now I'm really confused:confused:

LM

[xx3003xrdrxx]

dude , all these people that tell you they suck are little rich boys whos daddys go and buy them the jesus front end. if you dont have the money for all that buy the 400ex aarms tie rods and shocks, it kicks the **** outta the 300ex front setup . i use it every weekend on mx tracks . i also have taken my quad up the road WFO and have felt the bumpsteer , its not that bad , all quads do it when your goin close to 60 mph. in my oppinion it is twenty times better than the 300ex setup . I landed a 45 foot downhill double on my front suspension first on purpose and it was just like landin on pillows. In my oppinion its a great setup go for it .

[300exOH]

Originally posted by xx3003xrdrxx
dude , all these people that tell you they suck are little rich boys whos daddys go and buy them the jesus front end. if you dont have the money for all that buy the 400ex aarms tie rods and shocks, it kicks the **** outta the 300ex front setup . i use it every weekend on mx tracks . i also have taken my quad up the road WFO and have felt the bumpsteer , its not that bad , all quads do it when your goin close to 60 mph. in my oppinion it is twenty times better than the 300ex setup . I landed a 45 foot downhill double on my front suspension first on purpose and it was just like landin on pillows. In my oppinion its a great setup go for it .

Sorry but I'm NOT rich or a little boy:rolleyes: Have you owned/ridden on a properly built front end FOR the 300ex? The improvement you are feeling is only because of the added width. :rolleyes:

[chapmanmd]

Now we're getting somewhere. Ive read HUNDREDS of posts about how the 400ex front end on the 300ex sucks. That tells me absolutely NOTHING.

I AM an engineer and do understand suspension geometry. I understand bump steer.

What I dont understand are generalizations that something "sucks" but not saying how or why it sucks.

Im not building a race bike. We have a 300ex that my wife rides and I occasionally ride. It sees woods, trails, etc. Its not an MX quad or anything like that. Im looking to make it more stable and comfortable for my wife to ride in the woods. I have a FREE set of 400ex arms and 450R shocks due to building MY 400ex harescramble quad and my 450R TT quad. Im not an idiot.

Lots of people tell me to do a search. Ive done that many many times and always see the same thing. Its great or it sucks.

Im really not trying to be a pain in the a**, but I am just looking for empirical data to support "it sucks".

I guess the best thing for me to do is take a couple of hours and go out in the garage and do it. Then, and only then, will I understand if "it sucks" or if its awesome. One thing for sure is that Im not going to go out and spend a grand on a arms and shocks for a play quad. That doesnt make sense.

Thanks all for your input.

[VT250X]

Originally posted by xx3003xrdrxx
dude , all these people that tell you they suck are little rich boys whos daddys go and buy them the jesus front end. .

Congrats :) You offered no explanation and have succeeded in turning this into a "mine VS. yours" Post.

Whatever :rolleyes:

[300exOH]

Originally posted by chapmanmd
Now we're getting somewhere. Ive read HUNDREDS of posts about how the 400ex front end on the 300ex sucks. That tells me absolutely NOTHING.

I AM an engineer and do understand suspension geometry. I understand bump steer.

What I dont understand are generalizations that something "sucks" but not saying how or why it sucks.

Im not building a race bike. We have a 300ex that my wife rides and I occasionally ride. It sees woods, trails, etc. Its not an MX quad or anything like that. Im looking to make it more stable and comfortable for my wife to ride in the woods. I have a FREE set of 400ex arms and 450R shocks due to building MY 400ex harescramble quad and my 450R TT quad. Im not an idiot.

Lots of people tell me to do a search. Ive done that many many times and always see the same thing. Its great or it sucks.

Im really not trying to be a pain in the a**, but I am just looking for empirical data to support "it sucks".

I guess the best thing for me to do is take a couple of hours and go out in the garage and do it. Then, and only then, will I understand if "it sucks" or if its awesome. One thing for sure is that Im not going to go out and spend a grand on a arms and shocks for a play quad. That doesnt make sense.

Thanks all for your input.

The 400ex a arms cause the tie rods to be at an angle which is what causes the bumpsteer. Also the relocater puts the shocks almost straight up and down. This throws off the valving and stroke of the shock. Also the bumpstops on the shock aren't right for the application which can cause the a arms to bottom out before the shock. This can bend or break something in a hurry.

[VT250X]

Originally posted by chapmanmd
I have a FREE set of 400ex arms and 450R shocks due to building MY 400ex harescramble quad and my 450R TT quad. Im not an idiot.

I guess the best thing for me to do is take a couple of hours and go out in the garage and do it. Then, and only then, will I understand if "it sucks" or if its awesome. One thing for sure is that Im not going to go out and spend a grand on a arms and shocks for a play quad. That doesnt make sense.

Thanks all for your input.

If you have the stuff go and install it and be happy. However if you are an engineer and understand the principles, then why don't YOU be the one to investigate how it works and what effect it has? Then maybe we can get a good scientific explanation on here so people would stop having to argue about it. You could save tens of hours of posting replys :) I look forward to reading about your experience. :)

LM

[chapmanmd]

Originally posted by 300exOH
The 400ex a arms cause the tie rods to be at an angle which is what causes the bumpsteer. Also the relocater puts the shocks almost straight up and down. This throws off the valving and stroke of the shock. Also the bumpstops on the shock aren't right for the application which can cause the a arms to bottom out before the shock. This can bend or break something in a hurry.

See, now thats DATA!!!!!!!! Thank you.

[chapmanmd]

Originally posted by VT250X
If you have the stuff go and install it and be happy. However if you are an engineer and understand the principles, then why don't YOU be the one to investigate how it works and what effect it has? Then maybe we can get a good scientific explanation on here so people would stop having to argue about it. You could save tens of hours of posting replys :) I look forward to reading about your experience. :)

LM

Check this thread on Monday. I WILL post my findings. Thanks all.

[300exOH]

Originally posted by chapmanmd
See, now thats DATA!!!!!!!! Thank you.

No problem. I'm not an expert but I play one one the internet.:p But seriously I tried to explain it the best I can. When I first did the conversion I thought it was an improvement but after a while I started to find it's shortcomings. I did have custom shocks with mine and it still wasn't right. The main issue is that when the suspension compresses the toe will change more than it should which causes most of the handling issues. If you put everything on except the shocks and move the suspension up and down you will see what I mean. Good luck with it.

[ZeroLogic]

take chances kids just try it and see how it is! if it dosnt work sell them on ebay and put the 300ex shocks tierods and a arms on there!!








:o

[countypark]

This is something that I have worked on for years and I am still not convinced that the set-up that I currently run is the best but it is far superior to the stock 400 a-arms and shocks on the 300.

I have +2+1 A-arms built for a 300EX and I use Hiem ball joints as well as Hiem upper a-arm bushings. The a-arms that I have are not available anymore though but I am assuming that any a-arm manufacturer could reproduce them. They originally had 2 different shock mounts but I had to modify them to make my set-up work properly with 400EX shocks.

The key is to make sure that the suspension travel utilizes all of the shock travel. In order to do this an upper shock mount relocator must be made.

The ball joints as well as the hiem bushings allow you to adjust the caster and camber to get optimum steering properties.

The suspension when made properly should provide about 10 inches of wheel travel in both the front and the rear. I do not know if the stock swingarm will provide the proper travel for this set-up. I use a stock swingarm that is extended two inches and the wheel travel was matched to the front with shock mod's. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO MATCH THE TRAVEL. Severe bucking can and will occur if they are not matched.

I set my suspension to bottom out with the frame 2.5 inches from the ground and my shock travel on both the front and rear max's out at 12.5 inches from the ground giving me the 10 inches of wheel travel. The sub-frame design and airbox do not allow you to set this any lower then 2 1/2 inches. Optimum set-up would be to get the frame down to 1 inch from the ground. You will find this on 250R's and the latest race quads which have been developed based on the vast racing experience gained from years of experiementing with 250R geometry.

The other key to this set-up is that you set your ride height at least 1/4 to 1/2 inch taller in the front then the rear while standing on the pegs in "attack" position. I set mine at 9 1/2 in the front and 9 in the rear.

The other thing that you will want to run is 4:1 offset front rims which will bring the wheels in towards the frame and help reduce bumpsteer. I also recommend a steering stabilizer.

If you are working on a budget I would not recommend using stock 400ex shocks and a-arms with a relocator. For around $400 you can get a set of aftermarket shocks and a steering dampener that will make a 300 handle so much better then stock and you can bolt both right on in no time. I would also suggest running 22 inch fronts and 20 inch rears with a 14 tooth front sprocket.

[countypark]

#1 at the Penton this year.

#2 Overall in the GNCC Sport Class.

[countypark]

Countyline MX

[countypark]

Like its on rails

[VT250X]

Originally posted by countypark
This is something that I have worked on for years and I am still not convinced that the set-up that I ................. will make a 300 handle so much better then stock and you can bolt both right on in no time. I would also suggest running 22 inch fronts and 20 inch rears with a 14 tooth front sprocket.

Great post. We need more posts like that. No name calling or bashing.


LM

[Sjorge450R]

if I would have read this post 4 months ago i would have burgard a arms and 400ex shocks. thats how convinced I am with this. But I have to say... i still like my dual rate elka rec.s in the front and my raptor rear.

[VT250X]

Originally posted by Sjorge300EX
if I would have read this post 4 months ago i would have burgard a arms and 400ex shocks. thats how convinced I am with this. But I have to say... i still like my dual rate elka rec.s in the front and my raptor rear.


So are you running stock fronts length shocks with the raptor rear? Or do you have 400ex/250R a-arms?


LM

[300exOH]

countypark-That is a very nice front end. Very good setup tips as well. I have played around with the adjustments on mine and I've found I like it only about a 1/4" higher in the front. I run mine at 8 1/2 rear and 8 3/4 in front. I haven't done anything to the rear swingarm but I am running a works shock converted to SSD w/elka spring. I haven't noticed any bucking as a result. I am planning to extend my swingarm and have my shock
rebuilt/revalved this winter. I'm impressed with the 10" of wheel travel. I'm guessing mine is close to that but I haven't actually measured it. Very good info. Congrats on your win and your #2 status in GNCC sport class.