View Full Version : Welding
JDiablo
10-08-2005, 11:10 PM
Well i have really never got to much into welding,but recently i have looked into some of the welders,and wanted to know some price ranges and the certain types of welders that are most commonly used.
Which ones are for which metals etc
Im basically going to be using one for my upcoming quad projects,and one just to mess around with get some small stuff made for the quad,etc,just wanted some info,thanks
fasterz
10-08-2005, 11:42 PM
Well there are 3 main types of welding: arc aka stick, this is the cheapest, you can get one for like 200 bucks, they weld good, and are pretty easy to pick up on but deffinatly not my favorite type of welding since its messy due to spatter and the flux. Then there is mig, this is the easiest to learn on, you can get them in 220 and 110 volt, dont waste your time with a 110, you cant weld **** with it even thogh they say you can. These are deffinatly the easiest welders to learn on, they arnt too expensive for a starter you could spend between 400 and 1000 but yo ucan get much more expensive machines. mig uses a gas instead of flux to keep the oxygen out of the weld so you will have to buy/ rent tanks and have them filled. yo ucan usually use 25 argon 75 percent co2 which is fairly cheap. you have the ability to aluminum with one of these too. Mig is like a hot glue gun, you hit the trigger and filler wire is fed out the gun. This is deffinatly what i would reccomend. I have a lincoln, i suggest them. Then there is tig, this is the hardest and most expensive type but you have the ability to do exotic metals and the welds are very strong and clean (not saying mig isnt but these are better). If your looking to buy a decent tig set up be prepared to lay down alot of cash and prolly $300 for an argon tank. Tig is a gun with a tungston tip and you feed in the filler wire by hand. Most suspesnion compaines use tig.
400exc
10-09-2005, 07:14 AM
i like the lincoln stick welder the best, cheap, and pretty easy to operate
TheFontMaster
10-09-2005, 08:16 AM
For what you want to do a MIG would be your best option. Thats what I learned on, and I picked it up pretty quick. Just practice alot on thin scrap peices of metal. The thin stuff becuase it's easier to break though the metal, so you get a better feel for how long you can weld in one spot, etc, atleast that's how I learned.
JDiablo
10-09-2005, 08:59 AM
awesome,anyone have any more info,im looking to pick one up for when i move :devil:
Dad said i can have the whole garage to myself and make it a quad shop :macho
Mxjunkie
10-09-2005, 09:00 AM
I belive they make Banana shaped welding handles to :cool:
Scott-300ex
10-09-2005, 12:32 PM
MIG is easy! you can make perfect beads without even trying, well, i can at least, its fairly strong, and all you gotta do is get everything set the first time, then usually after that just turn on the gas and set wire feed speed which you will usually keep the same a lot
Stick is fairly easy, a lot harder to make look good. BUT IT IS THE STRONGEST FOR WELDING. All you really gotta do for this is put the rod in it, try to keep them warm while they sit, the set the voltage and your off and runnin
Tig is hardest, you get the arc in one hand and a stick in the other and you mesh them together, stuff you see on like bike frames and stuff it tig, those people are pro's, they look real good, tig welds aluminium real good too.
MIG would be good for you, on cheap ones the wire will get stuck and the wheel inside will get messed up, not fun to fix.
protraxrptr17
10-09-2005, 12:58 PM
If your going to be doing structural stuff or aluminum, you really need a TIG. It's harder to learn and a little more expensive due to the extra stuff (tungsten, collets, gas cups, gas lenses, collet bodies). An good TIG power source is really expensive too, but so is a good MIG. TIG is much slower and material prep is very important but it makes a much stronger weld. Plus if you get good at TIG you can get a great job making good money. Check out Miller's motorsports message board (http://www.millermotorsports.com/mboard/forumdisplay.php?f=3) . Lots of good info and some really smart people there. I would recommend a Miller Dynasty 200DX for you. It will set you back about $2500 for the complete setup but it is a very advanced machine that will weld any matierial up to 1/4 inch aluminum. It can run on 220 or 110 volts and uses an inverter so it is very portable and won't be too power hungry for residential circuits. You can get tranformer machines that are cheaper, but they are big, heavy, and will overload your circuits if you crank them up. I have the 300DX and it is awesome. It's much easier to learn if you have a good machine.
JDiablo
10-09-2005, 01:07 PM
i haven't welded in a LONG time,i think im going to stick with the basic MIG for now,just to get the hang of it,im not talking about building buildings here,just small lil stuff on my quad,maybe a extra gusset here and there,etc
TheX1992
10-09-2005, 03:12 PM
My system:
Thin metals (exhaust tubing, etc..) - MIG
Thicker metals - Arc
Exotic metals - Tig
I own a 110 MIG and I would use a 220 MIG over that anyday. You also do not have to use gas with it like previously stated. They make Flux Core wire, which replaces the gas. But, again, I would reccomend the gas with it.
I was searching this subject just the other day, found these two threads that were helpful......
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143018&highlight=welder
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135012&highlight=welder
Home Depot has a 135amp kit that includes a couple of spools of wire and a helmet and a couple of other things for $459. I'm thinking about getting that one for myself.
AtvMxRider
10-09-2005, 04:28 PM
A mig welder is all you need. You don't want to use a stick welder on what you plan to do. A tig is nice but a mig will do just fine.
Got some serious welding chores? Then you're going to want a serious welder. Lincoln Electric's Weld-Pak 3200HD handles a huge spectrum of flux-cored or MIG welding jobs -- from auto-body repairs to farm fixes to around the home chores. You just can't buy a 120V welder with a more versatile range! The Weld-Pak 3200HD comes ready to weld mild steel with self-shielded flux-cored wire right out of the box. Also included is virtually everything you need to MIG weld mild steel. Just add a cylinder of shielding gas. Rounding out the package is a welding handshield, instructional video and undercarriage. The convenient mild steel procedure chart inside the wire access door guides you to all the appropriate welder settings for the job at hand. The Weld-Pak 3200HD has a 25-135 amp output and welds up to 5/16 In. steel using flux-cored wire. The unit plugs into a 120V (20 amp) outlet. It comes with a 3 year warranty on parts and labor (90 days warranty on gun and cable).
JDiablo
10-09-2005, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by JOEX
How much joe?that one looks awesome
FasstMidnightZ
10-09-2005, 04:44 PM
My brother is going to a welding school in Riverside Ca. Not sure what its called but he said its pretty cool.
T.Hopp
10-09-2005, 05:06 PM
I have been using my Hobart Handler 135 (120 volt) for 5 years now. A unite like this or similar is more than adequate for what you want to do. I use it mainly for Jeep projects. My first project was a front reciever hitch for my Cherokee. I thought for shure that I was going to tear it apart last hunting season when my buddy hung his Power Stroke Dullie in the mud. I was on asphalt in 4-low and had all wheels spinning trying to pull that monster out. My home made reciever was fine.
Originally posted by 300exrida
How much joe?that one looks awesome
$459 at Home Depot
tater_kamik
10-09-2005, 05:08 PM
and banana helmets too.
i learned doing stick welding on an old buzzbox. those arent used very often anymore but they are cheap, reliable, and mine had a tendency to piss my sister since it apparently interfered with the radio and tv...
Originally posted by JOEX
wonder what the duty cycle is on that small of a welder, sometimes they shut doun after only like 5 secconds, then you have to start over.
brian350rx
10-09-2005, 06:02 PM
whatever you decide - buy a Miller welder!!!!!
knighttime
10-09-2005, 07:29 PM
Hobart was bought by Miller. I have a Hobart 180 that runs off 220 volt that works well. Its almost as good as a Miller. Tractor Supply has good deals on them if you have one of those in your area.:scary:
protraxrptr17
10-09-2005, 08:10 PM
Hobart makes good equipment for sure. I also have a Handler 180 and a Mega-MIG 300 in my shop, in addition to the Dynasty I mentioned earlier. They work great. The 180 is setup for flux core. I think you can get a 180 range Miller or Hobart for about $700. Check BRwelder on ebay for smokin deals on welding equiment. Shipping used to be free on welders. When I bought my Dynasty I printed the ebay page and took it to my local Miller dealer and said beat that. He matched it and gave me a good deal on my gas and consumables, plus I like to buy from local guys. It's good for the local economy and if I ever have a problem, he'll help me. Oh yeah, Miller has the best warranty in the business.
Originally posted by mittimj
wonder what the duty cycle is on that small of a welder, sometimes they shut doun after only like 5 secconds, then you have to start over.
Can you explain this please, i'm still doing research....
I thought Lincoln was one of the better welders. I have a hard time beliving that two reputable companies will sell a product that works as you describe:confused:
Like 300exrida, i'm not looking for anything real heavyduty, just something to tinker with;) I don't think i'll be welding anything over 1/4". That one claims to go to 5/16" so there's a wee bit of leeway:p
JDiablo
10-09-2005, 09:09 PM
Exaclty im not building anything that needs to be top notch welds,just screwing around,maybe make some custom stuff,etc
Scott-300ex
10-09-2005, 09:47 PM
get a MIG, will weld many types of metals, easy, clean, pretty, and less heat, and stick can piss you off, not just getting uglyer welds, but if you don't SLAM it on the metal to scratch/arc it, it will get stuck and not weld, but be attatched to the metal, you got to hit it hard, if you don't it will piss you off
that proly didn't make any sence but people who've stick welded before know wut i mean
Originally posted by Scott-300ex
get a MIG, will weld many types of metals, easy, clean, pretty, and less heat, and stick can piss you off, not just getting uglyer welds, but if you don't SLAM it on the metal to scratch/arc it, it will get stuck and not weld, but be attatched to the metal, you got to hit it hard, if you don't it will piss you off
that proly didn't make any sence but people who've stick welded before know wut i mean
I know watcha mean, it pisses me off too. either i schatch to fast. or the rod gets stuck and the welder goes errerererrrrrrrrrrrrr..
TheX1992
10-09-2005, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by JOEX
Can you explain this please, i'm still doing research....
Duty cycle? Basically, it's how long the welder can run before it needs to cool down. It's been quite some time since it was explained to me. Don't quote me on this, but as far as I remember, it means that you can weld for a certain amount of time, then have to let it cool for a bit. I know they have a number written on the side like 10/40 or something like that. 10 minutes run time, 40 cool down. But as far as stick welding goes, who can run a 10 minute bead on one electrode?
If this rings a bell in someones head, please correct me if I am wrong.
TheFontMaster
10-09-2005, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by TheX1992
Duty cycle? Basically, it's how long the welder can run before it needs to cool down. It's been quite some time since it was explained to me. Don't quote me on this, but as far as I remember, it means that you can weld for a certain amount of time, then have to let it cool for a bit. I know they have a number written on the side like 10/40 or something like that. 10 minutes run time, 40 cool down. But as far as stick welding goes, who can run a 10 minute bead on one electrode?
If this rings a bell in someones head, please correct me if I am wrong.
I thought it was out of an hour, like you can run it for 10 minutes, or 20 minutes, etc every hour. Well anyway you get the idea, you should get a manual with it, so just read that.
JForestZ34
10-10-2005, 08:20 AM
I don't really know how good these welders are but for what I was using it for it was perfect, and not to expensive either. Just look on this website , and search for welders.
This one looks like the only one you would need.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=55236
James
Woodsrider
10-10-2005, 09:35 AM
Joe, check the duty cycle on that machine. It should be between 30 to 60%. Which means in a ten minute cycle, it can run for three, and needs seven to cool down. I have a hobart 135 amp, 110v welder, and have never worked it past its duty cycle. That machine should be just fine for your needs. You really dont need a 220 welder for hobby box. The 220 welders will give you a longer duty cycle, and the ability to welder thicker material in a single pass. Honestly, when are you going to be needing to weld anything thicker than 3/16? I have built a few things from 1/4 plate with mine, you just need to make multiple passes.
FoxRacing81
10-10-2005, 10:43 AM
I agree with everyone, definatly get a mig.
I started out on a stick (arc) and I'm pretty good with it now. But Mig is easier and makes cleaner welds. I'd say that stick makes a lil stronger welders but they ain't pretty. For quadframes or anything, definatly go with a mig.
wilkin250r
10-10-2005, 02:13 PM
Duty cycle is based on 10-minutes. So if something is rated for 30% duty cycle at max power, you can weld continuously for 3 minutes, then you need to let it cool for another 7.
It does NOT mean that you can weld for 3 hours, and let it cool for 7 hours. It just doesn't work like that.
In reality, how often are you welding continuously? I don't know about you guys, but I weld for 30 seconds, clean and inspect my weld, then take a few minutes to prep my next weld, weld another 30 seconds, and a few more minutes for cleaning and prepping. I certainly don't do all my prep work, then try to weld continuously. My natural welding style is about 20-50% duty cycle. Even though I may be "welding" for three hours, only 45 minutes of that is actual arc time.
Anything that is specifies up to 5/16", don't count on it. Really, 3/16 is about as good as it gets before you need to start making multiple passes. Then again, you're never going to see anything more than 3/16 on any quad frame.
PolarisRider06
10-10-2005, 04:22 PM
hey you all forgot Oxy-Acetyline welding... not the most common but quite effective in some situations....
but i will have agree with everyone else, mig is the way to go. and the only way you can make a single pass on 1/4 inch material is to have a nice 220v welder along sith the proper set up and prep of your weld. stick welding can produce a nice weld IF and WHEN you are good at it but until you have quite a bit of experience its hard to do consistently... one thing though mig welding has a tendency to look good but still be weak if you don't have the proper settings on your welder.
now when it comes to continous welding the only time i have ever done a lot of pretty much continuous welding was on my trailer last year in school but i spent 2 hours previously tacking everything and getting it ready to weld then when i went to do the finishing welds i welded for 1 hour almost constant other than one 5 minute period when i put the frame up on its other side (i had it leaning against a wall) but that was with a very nice miller welder that has a 100% duty cycle... let me tell you though you get pretty **** good in an hour when you have to weld in all different positions and types of welds... plus you get a pretty wicked burn line on your arms from not wearing a long sleeved shirt....
JDiablo
10-10-2005, 04:33 PM
wow this thread has turned out better then i expected alot of info on welders and what not,i can't wait until i move now you guys got me all amped up about these welders,but im not going to be doing anything just yet,about too move within three months or so,so no more goodies in this garage :o
450 Racer R
10-10-2005, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by mittimj
I know watcha mean, it pisses me off too. either i schatch to fast. or the rod gets stuck and the welder goes errerererrrrrrrrrrrrr..
I've been stick welding for just about 10 months now. I hardly ever stick a rod and I can lay down a nice set of dimes pretty easily. If you have your heat set right and you move at the right speed, your slag will peel right off of the weld. I barely have to tap it with the chipping hammer to clean the slag off my welds and reveal the dimes underneath.
I tried mig about a month ago, and I'd rather weld with a stick. I just picked up the hobart tigmate. Tig isn't that hard to learn either after stick welding and learning how to control your weld puddle. I use the tig for 1/4" and below, and stick you can weld as thick as you want.
400ex28
10-10-2005, 08:17 PM
I have a Hobart MIG and I'm running the flux core wire as of right now. I want to get a tank sometime soon.
JDiablo
10-10-2005, 08:20 PM
well enough talking lets see some pix of your welds,lol and things you have made
protraxrptr17
10-10-2005, 08:55 PM
Somebody mentioned O/A welding. Lots of aircraft have parts (fuselages too) made from 4130 (same stuff we use for swingarms, a-arms and frames) that is welded using O/A.
Here's a few pics from my KTM conversion. Some of you might have seen them already. It's all TIG.
some tig aluminum on a "open" corner or 90 degree
protraxrptr17
10-10-2005, 08:59 PM
Keep in mind, this pic is before I finished welding in the bottom engine mount rails.
protraxrptr17
10-10-2005, 09:02 PM
What machine do you use mittimj? Nice bead.
protraxrptr17
10-10-2005, 09:08 PM
Here's my midpipe/ muffler flange joint. The midpipe is 304 stainless and the flange is just mild steel. TIG also allows you to switch between different metals easily, just by changing a few settings and using different filler. It's my last pic, sorry for reposting, but I really get into this custom built stuff and I'm kinda proud of my skills (good or bad)
Can two different types of metals be welded using MIG? What about different thickness of metals being welded together?
slamdak8782
10-11-2005, 04:09 AM
How do you cut the ends of the tubing so you can weld them like with that Ktm your welds are awesome and I can never get the tubing to fit that good before I weld?
protraxrptr17
10-11-2005, 05:09 AM
Yes, you can join stainless to mild steel using MIG. You have to use stainless wire and argon/helium mix gas. MIG is also great for joining two different thicknesses of metal. Just focus the arc more onto the thicker piece.
I cut the joints in the midpipe with a chopsaw. I use a bandsaw now. The chassis tubes were cut with a tubing notcher. I just use a cheap one I got off ebay but I use the high quality Lenox holesaws. Proper fitup is the key to making good welds.
I hope I'm not highjacking yor thread, 300exrida.
JDiablo
10-11-2005, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by protraxrptr17
Yes, you can join stainless to mild steel using MIG. You have to use stainless wire and argon/helium mix gas. MIG is also great for joining two different thicknesses of metal. Just focus the arc more onto the thicker piece.
I cut the joints in the midpipe with a chopsaw. I use a bandsaw now. The chassis tubes were cut with a tubing notcher. I just use a cheap one I got off ebay but I use the high quality Lenox holesaws. Proper fitup is the key to making good welds.
I hope I'm not highjacking yor thread, 300exrida.
No way,i like you see other peoples ideas,gives me some ideas for later on
Originally posted by protraxrptr17
What machine do you use mittimj? Nice bead.
I took a welding class, I believe that that was on a synchro wave 250 or 350 machine. My dad says that he will be buying one soon, but for now I have to stick to rivits for holding aluminum together.:o
wilkin250r
10-11-2005, 09:58 AM
I would recommend a welding class to anyone, IF you can find a good one.
Some welding classes (in fact, I think I could stretch it to most welding classes) are concerned primarily with state certification. The whole class is just laying beads of 6013 in a V-block. The last few weeks, they shake things up and let you lay beads of 7018 into a V-block, because that is the rod used for certification.
This is NOT the class you want.
If you can, try to find a class through a community college, but the class is actually taught at the local high-school. This type of class is generally less focused on certification, and going to give you a more broad base of exposure. You'll get it all. You'll start on stick, but you'll get exposed to MIG (flux-core and gas-sheilded both), as well as cutting torches and plasma-cutters.
the class I went to taught the basics of many types of welding, then for the last 2 classes you could practice / get more info on the type of weldign you where moast interested it.
first we learned how to cut with a torch, then gas welding, then stick welding, then mig, then tig, then tig aluminum. the class was tues and thurs fron 6-8 pm. it was out of some school or somthing. the class was like 450$ and it was like 12 classes or sonthing.
wilkin250r
10-11-2005, 01:06 PM
The class I took was a little more in depth. No TIG, but we really went in depth with stick for those that were looking for state certification, and specialty rods like 6010 and such.
I took the 6010 and cranked up the amps to 200 and started cutting holes in 1/4 inch steel. Handy if you don't have a torch or plasma-cutter with you, and you're not looking for a clean cut.
Scott-300ex
10-11-2005, 02:07 PM
6010, thats a fat rod, lol, thats awsome you cut with it
we used 7018 a lot
we went torch, to stick, to mig
i would like to take a college welding class, like 1 night a week or somethin like that, that would be cool
i used to never want to look at the arc without a mask, but i look/stare at them now, i think if your so far away it doesn't matter too, but they are bright when your close, anyone ever get the sand in eye feeling or wutever?
my 2 uncles are welders, one of them wears earplugs when he welds, cuz he's had the sparks go in his ear and burn his ear drum:eek: i saw one go in his ear before too, he can move pretty quick, when you got somethin that hot in your ear!
that was off topic but....
PolarisRider06
10-11-2005, 03:27 PM
i've taken 2 welding classes in high school already and i'm taking a 3rd one this year
the first was metals. it wasn't just welding it also included sand metal casting, using a lathe, CNC machining, and general machining on a press, plus it was a brief overview in O/A, MIG, and A/C and D/C SMAW (arc) there were about 6 welds for each of them that had to be done.
the second class i took was Welding I, that covered O/A welding, Brazing, O/A cutting, Plasma torch, MIG, TIG (mild steel, stainless steel, and aluminum), and SMAW (arc) A/C and D/C. the course was designed to take an entire semester but i finished it in a quarter due to having taken metals the year before. there were 6 different welds on the arc welder and you had to do all 6 with all kinds of different rods, 6013, 6010, 7014, 7018, 6011, all of those were used on 1/4 inch material with 1/8inch rods plus some we had to use 1/16 inch rods on 1/8 inch material and some rods we needed to do overhead welds with, which i may ad are harder than ****. plus there were a bunch of different welds while using A/C and then there were a bunch on the mig and tig and o/a......
overall it was definately worth it though... simple class if you have a general understanding of welding and still pretty easy if you have never welded before.
PolarisRider06
10-11-2005, 03:30 PM
oh yeah i know a guy who makes dragsters and rear ends and stuff for them... makes the chassis out of chromoly and tig welds them.... i'll see if i can get some pics of some of the cars hes done plus some of his welds and frames... now those are some **** good welds
protraxrptr17
10-11-2005, 07:44 PM
I didn't take any classes. I just read every book I could find and searched the net. I've only had my TIG a little over a year. I've been welding with stick and MIG all my life. I would like to take some real good classes. I have a feeling that I would know more than most of the instructors though.
Anybody seen a Henrob torch? The company claims it welds like a TIG and cuts like a plasma. It runs off O/A. It only requires 4psi. It would pay for itself in gas savings. I want to try one.
BUMP!:)
Are Clarke welders any good?
Specifically this one..... It's available locally for $299
Clarke WE6000 welder kit w/Free Shipping
$429.99
Model: we6000 Clark
Shipping Weight: 48 lbs
49 Units in Stock
Add to Cart:
ClarkeŽ 130 Amp
Gas/No Gas Mig Welder
with Cart and FREE SHIPPING
Includes at no extra charge:
Wire Brush / Hammer
Includes cart with wheels
2 Stage USA made regulator kit with line- gas conversion kit.
(does excellent job with flux core wire or with gas)
Rated output: 100A
Amperage Range: 30-90
Max open circuit: 28
Dimensions: 17"H x 10"W x 15"D
Weight 48lbs
Wire-feed welder operates on 110V
Tweco-style torch with full ON/OFF safety control
Automatic thermal safety switch prevents overload
Welding range 20 to 130 Amps for accurate welding power control
Uses wire dia. of .023/.030/.035 with spool capacity of 2 or 11 lbs.
Excellent Duty cycle 20% @ 130 Amps
Easy to operate
fan cooled
Includes 7ft. cable, 5ft. 10in. ground clamp cable and 2-lb. roll of .035 flux core wire
Comes with cart, helmet, replacement tips, wire brush and hammer, 2 spools of wire and instructional video
Includes standard electrical plug for 120V
10-year limited warranty on transformer
We have this model in our shop, use it often, and is the best welder we have seen or used in this price range!, And out performs some of the higher priced models!
Welds 1/4" material easily, will weld thicker with proper prep work, welds sheet metal GREAT!
--------------------- Free shipping!
Warrioreater400ex
11-27-2005, 01:00 AM
Well i have a stick welder, so thats generally what i use, but its hard (at least for me) to get pretty welds, but most of the time on my mud truck i dont need it to be pretty. i have used a mig before and its much easier.... with that being said, the stick can be useful. i was welding the locker shut in my differential b/c it stripped out, the metal was so hard that it wasnt working good, so i cranked that bad boy up to 140 and went to town...:devil: needless to say the weld hasnt broken again!! bud welding and tube bending is definitely cool and usefull skills to learn!
also, how many of yall use auto-darkening helmets vs. the dual lense ones that flips up? i LOVE my auto-darkening, but theres a lot of people that ive talked to that dont like it???
WRTMOPAR
11-27-2005, 01:11 AM
i have a hobart 135 with a gas kit it welds about anything i want to i use it alot for roll cages and sheetmetal
you can buy one at tractor supply for about 425.00
then go to gas supplier and get a tank of 75/25
i took welding in school and been employed as a welder for about 7 yrs
the welding class i took taught alot about the equipment and how to setup you,ll learn more by getting some scrap metal and practicing
TheFontMaster
11-27-2005, 09:43 AM
I like the auto-darkening lenses, I've only used it once, but I think they make starting out a tacking pieces in a little easier since you dont have to put the gun where you want it the keep it in the same spot while you put down your helmate.
bigbadbrad
11-27-2005, 01:04 PM
did not feel like reading the whole thread so i dont know if some one has said this yet, go get your self a 110v flux core wire feed welder. You can get one from sears, craftsmen brand, for around $200. it works really good, and will do just about all the welding you would need to do on a quad. If you need to weld thicker metals, get an oxy-acetalene(sp) torch and heat up the metal and weld it while it is still red. also flux core is the same princaples as mig, really easy to do ,and realy easy to pick up
wvspeedfreak
11-27-2005, 03:38 PM
I started using an auto darkening helmet about a year ago and absolutely love it.
yamablaster24
11-27-2005, 04:44 PM
Well i took metals in school and i live in a small town and we have a poor school so we have 2 old *** ARC welders, and an OX torch. After doing ox i was the only 1st year student to do Arc because i had my own at home. I did not make the nicest beads but they were strong as hell. I actually made my own bumper for my 400ex out of 1/2" steel and welded it all with ARC. now at work we have a Mig and the guy i work with was a retired bodyman and certified welder and taught me how to weld and i can lay a nice dime weld on just about anything. it is a miller 220 Mig and is very nice. Now im trying to go find a place that teaches tig.
Rip_Tear
11-27-2005, 05:36 PM
Lots of info in this thread.
For some of those people asking about welding 1/4"+ materials, if you have a smaller welder and want to weld these larger materials, you can grind the material smaller in V shapes or even double V (front and back) then you layer your weld. If you're looking for more strength you can do this, grind again and fill in the little holes/gaps.
I'm a little biest (sp), but I love 220V, just crank the beast up and go for it. I use a Lincon Mig and Stick welder at work sometimes (I'm a machinist) and it just takes practice, make sure your metal is clean and that your ground is on a clean piece of metal.
Make sure you wear proper protection, because you can be seriously hurt from heat/light burns and electrical burns/electricution. I've burnt myself a good few times due to stupidity. Also make sure you are in a well ventilated area, there is more smoke/stuff comming off your welds then you realise.
Make sure you wear gloves, mask, full sleve shirt, paints, boots etc.
wilkin250r
11-28-2005, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by JOEX
BUMP!:)
Are Clarke welders any good?
Specifically this one..... It's available locally for $299
Clarke WE6000 welder kit w/Free Shipping
$429.99
Model: we6000 Clark
Shipping Weight: 48 lbs
Joe, unless you're bordering on the brink of "expert welder", I'd suggest sticking with Lincoln or Miller. True, they are a bit more expensive, but are more widely known and available. Tech support, replacement parts, accessories, and finding people with direct experience with whatever model you buy is going to be much easier with a well-known brand name.
JDiablo
11-28-2005, 01:14 PM
Ill be picking one up soon
fasterblaster09
11-28-2005, 04:15 PM
Would a stick weld be pretty strong? I just learned how to stick weld (arc),and we have an arc welder.
wilkin250r
11-28-2005, 05:02 PM
Stick welds are plenty strong, but are generally more difficult to control on thin steel (like your ATV frame). Even with very thin rod, and barely enough amperage to maintain an arc, I always have a problem blowing through. MIG welding is much easier on thin steel.
Originally posted by wilkin250r
Joe, unless you're bordering on the brink of "expert welder", I'd suggest sticking with Lincoln or Miller. True, they are a bit more expensive, but are more widely known and available. Tech support, replacement parts, accessories, and finding people with direct experience with whatever model you buy is going to be much easier with a well-known brand name.
The only welding i've done was moving some puddles with an oxy torch waaaaay back in high school:p
I'll probably get the Lincoln I posted a few pages back. With or without gas?
AtvMxRider
11-28-2005, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by JOEX
With or without gas?
With;)
wilkin250r
11-28-2005, 05:35 PM
There seems to be some arguement about how effective the gas is. When I talked to some professional welders, they told me to forget the gas unless I'm in a relatively shielded environment, like a garage. Otherwise, even on a day with no wind, the air currents carry the sheilding gas away if you're welding outside, and you're much better off with flux-core wire.
Now, if you plan on doing a little aluminum, like fixing a skid plate or bumper, then you'll definitely need shielding gas. They don't make flux-core aluminum wire.
For steel, I guess it depends on what environment you're welding in. You get a cleaner weld with gas, because you don't have the flux residue from the flux-core wire.
However, them tanks cost money, and I think you can do just about anything with flux-core that you could with shielding gas.
Are you looking 110V or 220V?
T.Hopp
11-28-2005, 07:04 PM
Keep in mind that 110 v is available anywhere you go, but 220 v is not. I stuck with 110 v for that reason. I have friends wanting me to do little jobs for them and it is just a matter of plug and play. I have welded 1/4 " plate with no problems out of my Hobart 135. Auto darkening helmet is comming for the holidays.
TheFontMaster
11-28-2005, 07:49 PM
All the welders that I've been using are 110, and I can weld the thin sheet metal great with it, the thickest I have welded with the 110 is 1/8 inch, and if your going to be using it for mainly welding on a quad, 110 volts is all you need.
So far I plan on going with 110v, still undecided on gas though. I don't think i'll be welding anything over 1/4".
wilkin250r
11-29-2005, 09:14 AM
If you're looking at Lincoln, I think most of them come with flux-core wire, and the gas cylinders are an add-on.
I'd say get the highest amperage capability you can get with 110V (probably 135 amp), and just go with the flux-core to start. Later on down the road, you can upgrade to gas if you like.
You might be able to save a little by buying a package deal, welder and gas together, but I bet the savings would be less than $20 over buying them separate. Whoopdeedoo! For a whopping risk of $20, I say get the welder without gas, first, and try it out.
Woodsrider
11-29-2005, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by wilkin250r
If you're looking at Lincoln, I think most of them come with flux-core wire, and the gas cylinders are an add-on.
I'd say get the highest amperage capability you can get with 110V (probably 135 amp), and just go with the flux-core to start. Later on down the road, you can upgrade to gas if you like.
You might be able to save a little by buying a package deal, welder and gas together, but I bet the savings would be less than $20 over buying them separate. Whoopdeedoo! For a whopping risk of $20, I say get the welder without gas, first, and try it out.
What he said. But to clarify just a little, make sure the unit you buy has the option of using flux-core or cover gas. Some (cheaper) units on the market are not equipped to handle cover gas. Gas shielded welds are a lot cleaner, (less splatter). But like Wilkin said, unless your in the garage without a draft, your better off with a flux-core wire. Besides, it's cheaper to self teach with flux-core than it is with gas.
You asked if the Clarks are any good, I see them in a lot of the supply stores around here, and have used thier 220 unit several times, it works as good as any I guess. The key is support, does your local welding supply store carry spare parts for it, and will they be able to help you with any issues.
The Lincoln kit I was looking at at HD has the gas option and costs $459. They also have the same or similar model without the gas option for considerably less but I don't remember what was included, if anything.
Another question......
When welding a vertical bead do you weld up or down? Does it matter?
aviator4
11-29-2005, 10:38 AM
Okay, I know I'm going to get blasted for this but...
I've used all types of welders as well. I've used the high end Mig's that are electronically controlled all the way down to the cheeapy Wal-Mart Campbel Hausfield welders that only run flux-cored wire.
I chose to buy the Campbell-hausfield 80 series. It's a 110 welder with the option for flux-core or shield gas and so far it's been great, fora cheapy welder. I think I paid like $250 or something for it. It was a quick fix at the time. I was in a pinch and needed a welder to fix a problem on another vehicle, so I bought this one at 2:30am one morning.
I've been really happy with it, but it does have some serious limitations on how deep it will penetrate. 3/16 steel is about all it can do without notching.
It will lay down a nice bead though, and they are strong. So far It's been used to build a complete sand rail from a kit of tubes, a custom chasis for a fiberglass dune buggy, a full restoration on jeep and TON'S of little stuff here and there including a "redneck" welding cart made from the steel of an old bed frame... Yee haw! It ain't pretty, but it works well. On the thicker metals, I've had to V-notch the metal, like I said before.
It's other limitation is its' duty cycle. I think it's like 60% or something. I've hit the duty cycle limit a number of times. When I do, it kicks off and I have to wait until the unit cools back down. But hey, for a 110 unit that was an el-cheapo, it's been great.
I've done all sorts of little stuff with it:
added flag mounts to our kids quads
added a rack to the front of a trailer
fixed a fender on a trailer
Fabbed up a replacement seat mount for a 400EX
Built a welding cart
built a quad table
etc..
I have no complaints about it.
Here it is (on the welding cart mentioned above)
Pay no attention to the christmas lights, LOL... I'm using an old strand that quit working as the extension cord for Chrstmas lights on the outside of the house... I'm such a redneck.
aviator4
11-29-2005, 10:40 AM
Here's the Jeep I restored with it... now, I didn't do any frame work with it, it was all just body work.
aviator4
11-29-2005, 10:44 AM
And here's the dune buggy pan I made with it. The only VW parts are the torsion housing and the front bell. (and engine/tranny or course)
wilkin250r
11-29-2005, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by JOEX
The Lincoln kit I was looking at at HD has the gas option and costs $459. They also have the same or similar model without the gas option for considerably less but I don't remember what was included, if anything.
Another question......
When welding a vertical bead do you weld up or down? Does it matter?
Start at the bottom, and work your way up. With MIG, it's not TOO critical, you could actually do either way, but it's really critical on a stick. If you weld down, your weld puddle is running into your arc, and you just have a big hassle. You want your weld puddle to run AWAY from your arc to cool and solidify.
what,,, yes it matters. when welding mig when you weld doun on a pice that is vertical. You are getting minum penetration and the weld is verry weak. best thing to do is weld up then do a pass going doun on either side of your first pass which was up.
Picked up the Lincoln today....
I have alot of practicing to do:ermm: I'm having a hard time keeping a steady hand. It's getting easier though.....
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c278/JOEX400/Welding/Welding002.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c278/JOEX400/Welding/Welding011.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c278/JOEX400/Welding/Welding012.jpg
JDiablo
12-13-2005, 08:38 PM
Nice,lol you will be getting there soon enough,how much was it?
Originally posted by 300exrida
Nice,lol you will be getting there soon enough,how much was it?
$459 at Home Depot. It's the same one that I posted several pages ago:p
Those beads were done without gas, still need to get a bottle.
JDiablo
12-13-2005, 08:45 PM
Still looks good for first time welding,i hope they have some at my local home depot,I can't wait to move and get myself a brand new garage put up......heating and A/C too!!!!:macho
300extreme#8
12-13-2005, 08:46 PM
it doesn't matter what kinda welder i use, every time i try to weld it always ends up looking like a pile of poo....... kinda sad actually, but i did weld 2 or more thing pretty decent
Originally posted by JOEX
$459 at Home Depot. It's the same one that I posted several pages ago:p
Those beads were done without gas, still need to get a bottle.
where you useing wire with a flux core? if not then no wonder you cant weld. having shielding gas makes it 10x easier because it shields out the oxygen making the weld puddle a lot easier to carry.
Originally posted by mittimj
where you useing wire with a flux core? if not then no wonder you cant weld. having shielding gas makes it 10x easier because it shields out the oxygen making the weld puddle a lot easier to carry.
That was with flux core:ermm:
parkers30
12-14-2005, 07:55 AM
those look pretty good for flux core
seriously, find a welding class in your area. they are everywhere. I took one (16years old) and now weld all the time at work. With mig, once you get your magic numbers on the welder you will be all set. I still remember the #'s for the welder at work for welding 1/8th inch box tube. it was v=17.1 w=263.
but pracitce makes perfect I guess... I am far from perfect. I have mig under control, I can tig moast steals, not so good with aluminum. With stick I basically suck due that I dont ever use it, but I can get the job done.
wilkin250r
12-14-2005, 11:50 AM
Joe, I don't know how much free time and money you have to start throwing around, but a welding class really could help you out.
There's only so much you can learn from a book. It helps to have somebody with experience guild you on what your weld puddle should look like, what to look for in order to determine the correct voltage and wire feed speeds, how to look for proper penetration, and signs to be aware of that your workpiece might be overheating.
A steady hand comes with practice. But if you don't know what kind of weld puddle to look for, all the practice in the world isn't going to teach you. You need to be taught those sorts of things, either from a book or from a person.
knighttime
12-14-2005, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by mittimj
With stick I basically suck due that I dont ever use it, but I can get the job done.
:confused:
Originally posted by wilkin250r
Joe, I don't know how much free time and money you have to start throwing around, but a welding class really could help you out.
There's only so much you can learn from a book. It helps to have somebody with experience guild you on what your weld puddle should look like, what to look for in order to determine the correct voltage and wire feed speeds, how to look for proper penetration, and signs to be aware of that your workpiece might be overheating.
A steady hand comes with practice. But if you don't know what kind of weld puddle to look for, all the practice in the world isn't going to teach you. You need to be taught those sorts of things, either from a book or from a person.
Exactly my thoughts;)
There is a community college just a couple miles away that offers welding classes, I think it was between $200-300. I could make the finances work but time can be another issue.
I can be very book smart but I learn 'real world' better by watching others. I can practice all I want but if I don't know what i'm doing wrong I could be doing somthing wrong real well:p
In the mean time i'll be picking up hints and tips from various sources;)
Got some gas:D
It feels much smoother... but i'm still not so smooth:ermm: :p
Should I have more penetration?
pastfast125
01-15-2006, 11:00 PM
is that with a mig, tig or arc? I have a mig, but I'm using flux core wire, and that stuff sucks, I wish I could've afforded a tig but thats way out of the budget.
pastfast125
01-15-2006, 11:01 PM
o it's mig obviously, looks alright, how thick is the material ur welding there?
KoyukKFX
01-16-2006, 01:02 AM
I now have a question. On American Chopper, obviously it appears that when they are welding full beads, it's most likely TIG. But, when they are just tacking something into place for rough fit, would that just be a simple flux core wire feed arc welder?
pastfast125
01-16-2006, 01:14 AM
they are using some sort of mig, not sure if it's flux core wire or gas, but it's a mig welder.
knighttime
01-16-2006, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by pastfast125
they are using some sort of mig, not sure if it's flux core wire or gas, but it's a mig welder.
its a gas mig, and JOEX your practice welds looks pretty good
Scott-300ex
01-16-2006, 02:44 PM
Yeah, thats deffinetly a mig.
Depends on the penatration on wut size metal that is. If its 1/8" which I bet it is it might want a little more but I'm sure its fine, if it's 1/4" then you got a strong F**kin welder!!!!
yamablaster24
01-16-2006, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by Scott-300ex
Yeah, thats deffinetly a mig.
Depends on the penatration on wut size metal that is. If its 1/8" which I bet it is it might want a little more but I'm sure its fine, if it's 1/4" then you got a strong F**kin welder!!!!
looks like 1/8" to me, and whatever your going to be welding dependson where you want your penetration.
This is just some scrap I have. The actual measurement using a caliper is 3/32.
Scott-300ex
01-16-2006, 03:37 PM
Thats tiny, thats less than 1/8"
You'd prolly wanna turn it up.
Originally posted by Scott-300ex
Thats tiny, thats less than 1/8"
You'd prolly wanna turn it up.
Only 1/32" less:eek:
Aceman
01-16-2006, 05:00 PM
I haven't read through all the posts but so far it looks like you're doing alright. Penetration looks fine to me. A couple tricks are wearing a long sleeve shirt with leather gloves. Rest one arm on the workpiece so you can rest your other hand that's holding the stinger against it. This will help tremendously with a straight smooth weld. Some people drag the stinger across the metal to weld, I usually go back and forth in a half moon shape to make a bead. I've made gorgeous welds with these techniques.
my tip is to try some inside and outside corners. set a peace up on a 90 degree angle from you workpeace, then tack it on either end, then let er rip
Originally posted by mittimj
my tip is to try some inside and outside corners. set a peace up on a 90 degree angle from you workpeace, then tack it on either end, then let er rip
Yea, I plan on doing that this week;) Going to pick up one of those 90* magnet doohickies tomorrow, I was going to do that today but I got lazy:p
thoes magnets are handy, but for kicks you can just hold the peace up and tack it.
ps I dono if I spell peace or peice or piece or w/e
wilkin250r
01-17-2006, 10:26 AM
In reality, your practice welds look decent. I wouldn't worry about inside and/or outside corners right now. In fact, I wouldn't bother with ANY type of joint until you can lay a perfect bead on a flat surface. Practice a nice smooth motion.
Get some thin metal and crank the amperage up until you start blowing holes through it. Play around with it and learn your limits. This is probably the easiest way to learn about what kind of penetration you want, is to take it TOO far, and learn where those limits are.
Originally posted by wilkin250r
In reality, your practice welds look decent. I wouldn't worry about inside and/or outside corners right now. In fact, I wouldn't bother with ANY type of joint until you can lay a perfect bead on a flat surface. Practice a nice smooth motion.
Get some thin metal and crank the amperage up until you start blowing holes through it. Play around with it and learn your limits. This is probably the easiest way to learn about what kind of penetration you want, is to take it TOO far, and learn where those limits are.
I understand what you're saying about using the thinner material and finding the limits. What i'm not sure of is what the ideal limits are and what is a perfect bead. I know a bead may look good on top but what about the other side?
In the last pics I posted weld #1 is on the far left, #2 is the far right, #3 is second from left, #4 is second from right etc..... the middle two are the last ones for that session. Is there a way to tell visually how close I am to a 'perfect bead'? I know it's a ways away;)
knighttime
01-17-2006, 09:44 PM
when ya weld you always try to do it better each time, you are never truly satisfied, but, ...
joeEX, try practice welding by welding 2 pieces of metal together. the flat sheet is a good start, but if you want real straight beads, its easier if you are welding along a joint line.
:huh
im not sure if im explaining it right, but just try it
:eek2:
Jakeyracer
01-17-2006, 10:13 PM
this hole thread and no one has metioned oxy welding which is the best for cheap right angle mounts for whatever you want and you dont need rods either just need to know how to draw little circles
Originally posted by knighttime
when ya weld you always try to do it better each time, you are never truly satisfied, but, ...
joeEX, try practice welding by welding 2 pieces of metal together. the flat sheet is a good start, but if you want real straight beads, its easier if you are welding along a joint line.
:huh
im not sure if im explaining it right, but just try it
:eek2:
I know experience is the best lesson and practice is a close second.
For the younger crowd, that goes for nearly everytihng;) :)
Until I get the proper experience I don't know if i'm practicing the right way or the wrong way:p
I agree that putting two pieces of material together and follow the seam as a guide, it will be easier to weld straight but it doesn't do much for developing a feel for a staight line. Something I have to work on ;)
Originally posted by Jakeyracer
this hole thread and no one has metioned oxy welding which is the best for cheap right angle mounts for whatever you want and you dont need rods either just need to know how to draw little circles
I did a little OXY welding in HS metal shop but not enough to get comfortable with it.
From what i've read it's helpful if you want to TIG weld.
pastfast125
01-17-2006, 11:12 PM
My first weld ever was with a tig, thats what I learned on, but I cant afford a tig so I go amig, it was an interesting swap..I like TIG better, but maybe I'll like mig if I start running wiht gas...Is there any way to have it set up so it doesn't spark at all? That's another I love aobut tig, no spattering or sparking.
in my welding class we started with gas weldign w/ the torch and filler rod, you can bronze things together some unlike materials.
then moved on to mig which I was super bored at because I use it all the time and am just as good as the rest. (work in my relitives welding shop sometimes)
then stick, which I couldent quite get. kept skrewing it up.
then to tig with steel, then to tig with aluminum.
I wasent the greatest at aluminum but it takes practice.
but tiging steel I was making beads on the edje of a razor blade.l
digga_b
01-18-2006, 08:19 AM
[i]...Is there any way to have it set up so it doesn't spark at all?.... [/B]
If it is set up correctly, there will not be much spark. But there is a fine line to that, and sometimes it's hard to find. Plus, the cleaner the metal is, the easier time you would have with it.
in my welding class we started with gas weldign w/ the torch and filler rod, you can bronze things together some unlike materials.
then moved on to mig which I was super bored at because I use it all the time and am just as good as the rest. (work in my relitives welding shop sometimes)
then stick, which I couldent quite get. kept skrewing it up.
then to tig with steel, then to tig with aluminum
In mine, we started with-
1. Stick (steel)
2. MIG (steel, stainless, then aluminum)
3. Oxy/A (first brazing steel then welding)
4. And only after we mastered Oxy/A did we move to TIG. (Same motions just with electricity not a flame) first steel, stainless, then aluminum.
Rip_Tear
01-18-2006, 10:49 AM
There are kind of 3 types of "perfect welds"(bead), the most important is penetration, ie making sure the weld goes into both materials strongly. Then making the bead look good, ie smooth, flowing, no air bubbles, little if no splatter, stuff like that. And of course the third is having both elements together.
Your beads look good for the most part, the thing with find the limits is to make sure you are using a high enough "heat" to penetrate the materials properly, without burning holes through or not having the most penetration possible.
One way to find out how your welds are is to check the back of that material you've been welding, another way is to butt two pieces together and weld them like that only on one side. Then take the piece and check out the back, your weld should be right through (depending on the thickness), you can grind from the back if you want to try and see how it looks on the inside of the weld. Try bending the pieces apart, or hammering on it to see if it will tear down the weld, and that will help determine the strengths of your welds.
wilkin250r
01-18-2006, 01:14 PM
There really is no "perfect" penetration with welding. It all depends on the thickness of the material, and the desired strength.
You should be able to "see" penetration as you're welding. You should be able to see if you are cutting deep or not.
I wouldn't worry too much about penetration on thinner materials, like anything under 1/8 inch. You don't want to be just laying metal on the surface, but if you can see any penetration at all while you're welding, then you're good.
Only when you start to get into thicker metals do you need to check if you're getting "enough" penetration.
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