TDUBS swinger

[culookn]

i just came acorrs these swinger's for the 450. i thought they looked kind of small for mx. i called the owners and they said they have a few guys running mx with them and never once has one cracked or broke. plus you cant beat the price...269 bare. im thinking about getting one.

[chad502ex]

dragg'n maybe, but are you not concerned that that swinger does not have any type of gusset. looks like that the bearing carrier holder part of the swinger would just snap off.

just an opinion. give a product review of your opnion if you get.

[Jersey450R]

not to sure by way of looks there my man. looks a little "thin" .

[TrX450rKiD]

Myflyin just won one off of TDUB in the .org raffle. I am sure he will give a review :)

[punker69q]

even if they were made with solid bars I think that they would still not be strong enough. Do you know what is the od diameter of those tubes? If yes I can calculate the second moment of inertia of that swingarm and compare it to a standard ls/laeger swingarm. That would give you a good idea of the strenght of this swingarm.

[infantry317]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....................
don't do it! :scary:

[JH_Racing188]

i wouldnt even used that for TT that thing is a death trap

[punker69q]

I just made a quick calculation, and even if they were made with 1½ in od 0,125 in thick tubing, they would still be 2½ less strong than rectangular tubing swing-arms. Those are really dangerous!

[diangelo#67]

no way for mx seriously that looks like a beutiful drag swinger though

[brif]

Some seem alittle harsh of the swinger based solely on a pic. The swinger is .120 wall 4130 chromoly aerotubing. I beileve it is mig, not tig welded. He has said he could put 4 carrier pinch bolts on instead of 2 if so desired. Skid plate tabs can be added as well.
I don't own one of these or have I seen one in person yet. I have heard very favorable testimonials from people on several sites with the arm and really seem to like it. I can see myself owning one in the future.......

[450 Racer R]

I can build something like that

[culookn]

lol i think i can too with that new tig welder.(yo let me get a helmet on.)

[Martin Blair]

Originally posted by brif
Some seem alittle harsh of the swinger based solely on a pic. The swinger is .120 wall 4130 chromoly aerotubing. I beileve it is mig, not tig welded. He has said he could put 4 carrier pinch bolts on instead of 2 if so desired. Skid plate tabs can be added as well.
I don't own one of these or have I seen one in person yet. I have heard very favorable testimonials from people on several sites with the arm and really seem to like it. I can see myself owning one in the future.......

if its mig i can build that for less the 50 bucks

[T-MAC 450R]

i called them a couple months ago and they seem to be pretty good people. i mean the girl on the phone i talked to her about how her day was going lol. i wonder if they can gusset it too?

[tractorpacker]

I ran tdub through google, and I couldn't find anything. Do they have a sight or anything?

[brif]

www.tdubsracing.com

[culookn]

Originally posted by brif
www.tdubsracing.com


no its www.tdubracing.com

[#1speedbump]

Those of you critisizing these arms without having one in your hand are a joke. Since when does a pic represent a products structural integrity or durability. The fact that these arms are not Tig welded was a plus in my book. Half the "builders" tig welding parts dont have a clue how to run a proper bead and dont use enough rod.

I'm not a metal fab'r but if square tubing was/is stronger why are more and more parts being made out of round/oval tubing??

Jh and Punk, both of you are hilarious. "those are death traps", "those are really dangerous".. Have you ever seen a broke LSR swinger, how bout Houser, Laeger, etc. I have, several in fact. They actually broke in the tubing not on a weld. Yet I have never seen a 120 wall oval break.

Here is my take. I have a TDub arm on my 450 and for the service, quality, strength, I give it an A+. Tony is an excellent guy and he isnt here to make a quick buck by selling *****. I got my arm raw and had the welds looked @ by a certified welding cert. and inspector and he couldnt find anything wrong with it.


Maybe this isnt the best for a rider that rides MX but I cant see any downside to it.

You all are aware that you can overbrace a piece of metal that could cause worse problems for you right?

[#1speedbump]

Originally posted by chad502ex
dragg'n maybe, but are you not concerned that that swinger does not have any type of gusset. looks like that the bearing carrier holder part of the swinger would just snap off.

just an opinion. give a product review of your opnion if you get.

If it were to snap off it wouldnt survive even with gussets. Metal is only as good as the welds holding it together, not how many gussets it has.:rolleyes:

[450 Racer R]

You can't tell how good a weld is just by looking at it. The weld has to be cut through or ground down. You can lay down a nice set of dimes with little or no penetration at all. Especially with mig, it takes very little experience to get a nice looking weld. A nice looking weld doesn't always mean it's a good weld.

I'm sure the swinger is a top quality product. If I didn't already have my houser I'd buy one for sure.

[punker69q]

Originally posted by #1speedbump
Those of you critisizing these arms without having one in your hand are a joke. Since when does a pic represent a products structural integrity or durability. The fact that these arms are not Tig welded was a plus in my book. Half the "builders" tig welding parts dont have a clue how to run a proper bead and dont use enough rod.

I'm not a metal fab'r but if square tubing was/is stronger why are more and more parts being made out of round/oval tubing??

Jh and Punk, both of you are hilarious. "those are death traps", "those are really dangerous".. Have you ever seen a broke LSR swinger, how bout Houser, Laeger, etc. I have, several in fact. They actually broke in the tubing not on a weld. Yet I have never seen a 120 wall oval break.

Here is my take. I have a TDub arm on my 450 and for the service, quality, strength, I give it an A+. Tony is an excellent guy and he isnt here to make a quick buck by selling *****. I got my arm raw and had the welds looked @ by a certified welding cert. and inspector and he couldnt find anything wrong with it.


Maybe this isnt the best for a rider that rides MX but I cant see any downside to it.

You all are aware that you can overbrace a piece of metal that could cause worse problems for you right?

Over bracing giving problems??? Usually when you brace a part it will break somewhere else, if this is the kind of problem you are talking about.

You have to know that a swingarm is mainly stressed by flexing and shearing. To resist these, a swingarm needs to have a cross section with an area big enough to make those shearing stress low. The tdubs swingarm does just that, by using thick tubing.

To resist flexion, a swingarm must have a second surface moment of inertia (don't know if this is the right term in english) high enough. This is the weak point for this swingarm, the shape is not optimized for bending moments around the z axis (vertical force = y axis). This is also why oval tubing are better than round tubing, but only for bending moment around one axis. They are more "optimized" for one kind of flexion. Just think of it like a 2"x4" wood beam.

I don't want to bash anyone products, so if you could give me the od of those tubes, I could accurately compare the strenght of those tubes to the strenght of the 2''x1''x0,065'' tubes used by others.

My only concerns about this swingarm is the tubing used, not the welds or anything else.

[TBD]

I can't believe how many engineers are on this thread. Here is my opinion. First of all if that is .120 wall oval tubing I would like to know where to get it because none of my suppliers have ever seen .120 oval. Second is that the only way to ceritify welds is to have them x-rayed. Third is that if you gusset a part it doesn't always make it stronger. You need to know just how much flex you want and where you need the part to be ridged.

[punker69q]

Originally posted by TBD
I can't believe how many engineers are on this thread. Here is my opinion. First of all if that is .120 wall oval tubing I would like to know where to get it because none of my suppliers have ever seen .120 oval. Second is that the only way to ceritify welds is to have them x-rayed. Third is that if you gusset a part it doesn't always make it stronger. You need to know just how much flex you want and where you need the part to be ridged.

I'm not an engineer, yet :blah:

Maybe wilkin could jump in and add some of his theory:D

[450 Racer R]

it's 1" od .120 wall chromoly

[#1speedbump]

Originally posted by punker69q
Over bracing giving problems??? Usually when you brace a part it will break somewhere else, if this is the kind of problem you are talking about.



Kinda, but more along the lines of............If you overbrace something like a swingarm, a arms, frames it causes the stress to be absorbed by another part of the quad. This could lead to a more devastating and costly break.

The individual who looked at my arm has been certifying and inspecting welds for over 30 yrs. Is responsible for teaching other inspectors the proper way to inspect welds.

As far as .120 wall oval and suppliers never seeing it, well ask em to try to find it for ya. It exists.

[slickta]

We use the tdub swingarm on a tt bike and have no problem with it. It is a very nice product. The service from them was great also. We need the swingarm quickly and he rushed it through for us. I keep and eye on the chassis to check for cracks and have not found any yet.

[TBD]

Originally posted by #1speedbump
Kinda, but more along the lines of............If you overbrace something like a swingarm, a arms, frames it causes the stress to be absorbed by another part of the quad. This could lead to a more devastating and costly break.

The individual who looked at my arm has been certifying and inspecting welds for over 30 yrs. Is responsible for teaching other inspectors the proper way to inspect welds.

As far as .120 wall oval and suppliers never seeing it, well ask em to try to find it for ya. It exists.
Almost any tube exsists if you have someone extrude it for you. I have asked my supliers. To visually look at a weld and tell if it is good only goes so far. There is a metal testing company right next to my place and as he said "you're taking a big chance by telling someone a weld is good by just looking at it". Every part he certifies goes through the xray. I'm sure that your friend is good at what he does but to look at a weld and call it good by appreacance alone is not what I would call certifying. I'm not saying the swingarm isn't good. It's a design that has been in use for awhile(Tucker Proarm).

[diangelo#67]

first of all, I have been racing quads for a while now and that thing looks like a first rate tt swinger. just like a push pin rpm axle but let me tell ya neither one would be found on any mx bike I'll ever through my leg over. yeah I'm sure your probably a great welder and all that but I don't trust that little bit of material and mig welded at that. under my *** when I'm goin over 35' in the air on a 90' double :ermm:

[JH_Racing188]

Originally posted by #1speedbump
Those of you critisizing these arms without having one in your hand are a joke. Since when does a pic represent a products structural integrity or durability. The fact that these arms are not Tig welded was a plus in my book. Half the "builders" tig welding parts dont have a clue how to run a proper bead and dont use enough rod.

I'm not a metal fab'r but if square tubing was/is stronger why are more and more parts being made out of round/oval tubing??

Jh and Punk, both of you are hilarious. "those are death traps", "those are really dangerous".. Have you ever seen a broke LSR swinger, how bout Houser, Laeger, etc. I have, several in fact. They actually broke in the tubing not on a weld. Yet I have never seen a 120 wall oval break.

Here is my take. I have a TDub arm on my 450 and for the service, quality, strength, I give it an A+. Tony is an excellent guy and he isnt here to make a quick buck by selling *****. I got my arm raw and had the welds looked @ by a certified welding cert. and inspector and he couldnt find anything wrong with it.


Maybe this isnt the best for a rider that rides MX but I cant see any downside to it.

You all are aware that you can overbrace a piece of metal that could cause worse problems for you right?

ok i showed a pic to a fabricater that has over 20 years in building indy500 winning sprint cars.... he also is lead mechanic for keith little and a many pro- am riders!!!!! he said that taht swingarm is not very well built... but for not having it in his hand inspecting it he cant tell me for sure but he builds his 90cc swingamrs stronger than that...if someone can break square tubing chromoly than that wouldnt have a chance

[ThumPIN_450R]

I don't like the looks of it either, but if he will send me free one I will be more than happy to try and break it and then give a full report on this site and tell the result. I have a well earned reputation for being able to break everything and I think I would be a perfect test for that thing :D

[rowlrag]

In the NHRA drag racing book it says anything chromoly must be TIG welded only. Mig puts out to much heat and makes the chromoly brittle at the weld. I have mig welded lots of chromoly, but thats on MY rockcrawler with a seat belt. My only problem with that swinger is how much twist is there between the axle and pivot bolt? IMO it needs a little more beef for MX or XC.

[CdaleXtreme]

Anyone who thinks this Swinger would hold up for MX or even XC, is not aware of the forces put these parts .

Not a chance in hell would this thing hold up under a season of MX Racing. Sure if you never cased a jump or landed sideways.

But thats not reality. no matter how well its built there simply isnt enough material there to hold that thing together after repeated abuse, and hard landings.

It dont think they even designed that swingarm for an MX application.

TT or Drag racing sure. MX and XC no way.

[aroracer72]

I dont wanna bash a small guys product...but why not make it a little eye appealing???. Im not saying ti wouldnt hold up.....and i smell a Chad durability test comin on........but it jsut doesnt look cool at all. Im shrue tis light, and strong....but i mean, i prolly wouldnt buy it for how skimpy it looks. You dont have to make it MASSIVE or anything...jsut add a couple guessets, and Maybe some bigger tubing.......cause the market today is half quality and half visual appeal.....why you think people actually pay the rediculous prices for walsh stuff, etc...cause it looks cool and pros use the stuff.
But wi will not judge without testing it...but just doesnt look appealing, and that turns me off....but i like how tyou described how you do your buisness...its good =to have your welds inspected by a professional.
CHAD

Originally posted by aroracer72
.....why you think people actually pay the rediculous prices for walsh stuff, etc...cause it looks cool and pros use the stuff. i could get off to those walsh swingarms probably they are so beautiful

[JH_Racing188]

Originally posted by MixMasterMike
i could get off to those walsh swingarms probably they are so beautiful :huh

[culookn]

when i spoke to the owner at TDUB's he explained that he can build it according to your needs. (add 2 more pinch bolts, etc) so i imagine that if you wanted to beef it up you could. but i guess if you make it too rigid, that would make things worse.:confused: wouldnt it?

[CdaleXtreme]

Originally posted by MixMasterMike
i could get off to those walsh swingarms probably they are so beautiful

But the true beauty of them is, that they are some of the strongest on the market!

[aroracer72]

Have you seen Walsh stuff???...or Roll Designs???......there beefy as heck. By this, the only other things that would most likely take the stress is the frame, and axle. The axle is strong, so its not likely, and the frame...they crack stock anyways, once you get it guesseted, it wont crack. This swingarm could easily be doubled in beefiness without causing probs. But for the average rec rider, who doesnt have 600-900 dollars, this swinger is perfect.
CHAD

[protraxrptr17]

MIG welded 4130 will crumble like animal crackers. The weld itself is not the problem. The HAZ or Heat Affected Zone is the weak spot. Especially if it's holding a swingarm that scrawny together. As someone else already stated, MIG puts too much heat into the work. The size of the main tubes of that swingarm are really small and would flex terribly. It wouldn't take many uneven landings before the HAZ at the pivots, shock mount crossmember, or bearing carrier would start breaking up. There's a reason all the top name swingarms are huge. My JRD looks like a crane boom. I MIG and TIG everyday. I don't MIG weld anything on my bike. It's too easy to get a great looking weld that won't hold. MIG has it's place, but it's not for thin wall, high load applications.