Indiana! Say No To I-69!!

[Honda]

Proposed I-69 Highway project. (http://www.elpc.org/trans/I69/I69.htm)



Indiana tax payers please contact your state reps and instruct them to say to I-69.

This highway project will needlessly destroy Indiana’s forest and farmlands. It will force people from their farms and is a waste of over 2 billion in our Tax dollars!

[Honda]

Please see alternate! (http://www.commonsensei69.org/)

[trx440]

This is going to be a long battle my friend.

I can't believe they could only shave of 13 miles [???] with the proposed I-69 route. Even so, 13 miles doesn't equate to 13 minutes as stated on the opposition's website because of the differences in speed limits and number of stoplights on 41.

As a former resident of Evansville, I can tell you driving US 41 at 55mph can be tedious. I once got a ticket for going 62mph.

Most in SW Indiana are looking forward to this project.

Doesn't matter much to me as I live in Arizona now. I hope they do nothing to tell you the truth. I don't want any of my money being wasted in Indiana.

[derekhonda]

Yeah, Im kind of mixed about it. I live in indy (near it) and my sis lives in evansville. Also, my dad runs about 3 trucks a day to Hopkinsville KY (south of eville a ways) This would definately make a 4 hour trip a 2.5 or 3 hour. I say its worth it. But I can see why others could disagree.

Also, i didnt read your article, but I thought Daniels said they were contemplating making it a toll road that would both pay to build and maintain all costs. :confused:

I can guarantee (especially with gas so high) people would pay 10 dollars to drive on a highway to evansville, that drive sucks.

[trx440]

Something else to think about, since this is an Interstate it is a Federal project. This means that federal tax dollars will go into building it. Indiana will have to pay some, I don't know how it breaks down.

It would put alot of Hoosiers to work and would be an economic shot in the arm to alot of people along the new I-69 corridor in SW Indiana, a poor and under developed part of the state.

It could also open up opportunities for more auto plants like the Toyota plant outside of Princeton. Most of the auto parts made here in the states come from NE Indiana along the northern leg of I-69 and the Detroit area of course.

[tater_kamik]

on the positive side, you can steal signs that say that you 69

Originally posted by tater_kamik
on the positive side, you can steal signs that say that you 69 ROFL :blah:

[Honda]

It really is not about the money.

Fact is this project is going to run directly through some of Indian’s most pristine farm and woodlands. It will force farmers from the property they own, put interstate noise in peoples back yard.

It also runs through a large nature preserve.

As we all know, when you put an interstate through this type of real estate, commercial and residential buildings soon follow. How much of our farm and woodlands do we have to destroy before we realize that all we are left with is concrete and steel?

America is losing a majority of its farm land, and finding secluded property is becoming ever more difficult.

There is a much less expensive and more eco friendly route, save over 900 million dollars and the trip would only take 10-15 minutes longer by using the I-70/ us41 route, and upgrading that to interstate function.

Don't forget, these are prime riding areas also, something that is becoming more and more difficult to find.

An ATV rider concerned about the environment? I bet the tree huggers never thought about that!

[400ex28]

i dont see the big deal about building it, the highways now are just fine!

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by Honda
It really is not about the money.

Fact is this project is going to run directly through some of Indian’s most pristine farm and woodlands. It will force farmers from the property they own, put interstate noise in peoples back yard.

It also runs through a large nature preserve.

As we all know, when you put an interstate through this type of real estate, commercial and residential buildings soon follow. How much of our farm and woodlands do we have to destroy before we realize that all we are left with is concrete and steel?

America is losing a majority of its farm land, and finding secluded property is becoming ever more difficult.

There is a much less expensive and more eco friendly route, save over 900 million dollars and the trip would only take 10-15 minutes longer by using the I-70/ us41 route, and upgrading that to interstate function.

Don't forget, these are prime riding areas also, something that is becoming more and more difficult to find.

An ATV rider concerned about the environment? I bet the tree huggers never thought about that!


10 - 15 minute trip? Have you ever driven to evansville? 180 miles takes 4 hours to drive.

[400ex28]

It only takes 3 hours to get from evansville to indy

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by 400ex28
It only takes 3 hours to get from evansville to indy

Guess that depends where you are going in indy.

[400ex28]

Originally posted by derekhonda
Guess that depends where you are going in indy.

oh yea forgot to say southern part of indy :p

[bigvforcer]

He said it would only take 15 minutes more to go across 1-70 then jump on a redone us41 if it was done that way! OPEN YOUR EYES AND ACTUALLY READ WHAT IS WRITTEN!

HONDA is right if we do not force people to quit building and start tearing down abandoned buildings and parking lots we are going to be concrete and steel and we will have no FOOD. Each time we close down a family farm because of a subdivision we cost ourselves more money in the long run. Giving the small farm business to the big corporate farmer causes prices to go up. You may not realize this because I am sure alot have never farmed or been around it but ask an older farmer what it used to be like and now, oh wait, now you can't hardly find family farms. We are ruining ourselves by building on every acre we can!

Take what I said however you want it, but go ask some people how many farms used to be where that new subdivision is and then find out how many crops they took to market and your eyes will open!

[brian-250]

Originally posted by bigvforcer


HONDA is right if we do not force people to quit building and start tearing down abandoned buildings and parking lots we are going to be concrete and steel and we will have no FOOD. Each time we close down a family farm because of a subdivision we cost ourselves more money in the long run. Giving the small farm business to the big corporate farmer causes prices to go up. You may not realize this because I am sure alot have never farmed or been around it but ask an older farmer what it used to be like and now, oh wait, now you can't hardly find family farms. We are ruining ourselves by building on every acre we can!




Now thats the best damn statement i've EVER heard on this project!

i work on about the only family farm around here anymore, its a father son operation with me and one other guy working part time, a developer tryed to but 125 or so acres ove the summer and he was told to do something that i cant say on here.:o


on the I-69 thing, i think it is really a waste of good farm gorund, most of the ground down that way (ive heard) what level parts are farmable is good soft black dirt, that would be taking away some VERY good farm land. and for people that comute from indy to E-ville everyday really should move closer to the town they work in instead of spending 2 billion dollars just so you can get back and fourth to work, thats just my 2 cents but whatever.:rolleyes:

[400ex28]

Originally posted by brian-250
Now thats the best damn statement i've EVER heard on this project!

i work on about the only family farm around here anymore, its a father son operation with me and one other guy working part time, a developer tryed to but 125 or so acres ove the summer and he was told to do something that i cant say on here.:o


on the I-69 thing, i think it is really a waste of good farm gorund, most of the ground down that way (ive heard) what level parts are farmable is good soft black dirt, that would be taking away some VERY good farm land. and for people that comute from indy to E-ville everyday really should move closer to the town they work in instead of spending 2 billion dollars just so you can get back and fourth to work, thats just my 2 cents but whatever.:rolleyes:

Yep there is some VERY nice farmland between indy and eville. Its a shame to take it away :(

[Honda]

I remember just 15 years ago, there was all kinds of open real estate within 10 minutes of downtown Indy.

I also remember being able to go to the garage, hop on one of my off road machines and ride out of my backyard into a vast trail system that would take me half of a day to complete. Then the earthmovers came, followed by the neighborhoods and commercial buildings, think those neighbors liked me riding through their back yards? Not quite!

This land is important for many reasons, farming provides food for our nation, now it is also going to be used for a large production of bio fuels, and this will help us wing ourselves from Saudi oil companies who are bending us over on oil prices.

Think about the loss of wilderness and potential riding areas, the reduction in livestock and other animal farms we need to get our meats and dairy products from. The newcomers will move in, and then petition the city to remove smelly, dusty and noisy farms from the area, so they can sit in their $300,000 home without the inconveniences of having farms and farmers in the area.

It isn't the Highway that is the big deal here guys, it is the development and commercialization of the areas in the path of the highway that worries me the most.

People want to ***** about convenience, and legislators want to line their pockets with all these unnecessary pet projects, its ridiculous.

Why don't they spend the money on a new levee system for New Orleans? Or feed the poor?

One more thing! I am sick of hearing the interstate in my bedroom at night, and it's getting harder and harder to avoid the noise.

Try riding in New York City, lol! Development and Progress? At what price I ask you!

[Honda]

Why don't they go into the ghetto and tear it down, rebuild it. Give them some jobs and refurbish the area? Instead they want to just keep expanding, leaving the older run down areas to become war zones.

maybe freakin out here, I just want people to understand the full issue at hand.

:ermm:

[400ex28]

Originally posted by Honda
I remember just 15 years ago, there was all kinds of open real estate within 10 minutes of downtown Indy.

I also remember being able to go to the garage, hop on one of my off road machines and ride out of my backyard into a vast trail system that would take me half of a day to complete. Then the earthmovers came, followed by the neighborhoods and commercial buildings, think those neighbors liked me riding through their back yards? Not quite!

This land is important for many reasons, farming provides food for our nation, now it is also going to be used for a large production of bio fuels, and this will help us wing ourselves from Saudi oil companies who are bending us over on oil prices.

Think about the loss of wilderness and potential riding areas, the reduction in livestock and other animal farms we need to get our meats and dairy products from. The newcomers will move in, and then petition the city to remove smelly, dusty and noisy farms from the area, so they can sit in their $300,000 home without the inconveniences of having farms and farmers in the area.

It isn't the Highway that is the big deal here guys, it is the development and commercialization of the areas in the path of the highway that worries me the most.

People want to ***** about convenience, and legislators want to line their pockets with all these unnecessary pet projects, its ridiculous.

Why don't they spend the money on a new levee system for New Orleans? Or feed the poor?

One more thing! I am sick of hearing the interstate in my bedroom at night, and it's getting harder and harder to avoid the noise.

Try riding in New York City, lol! Development and Progress? At what price I ask you!

Agreed.

[trx440]

I'm not going to get too long winded here.

#1: I agree with your position on the spirit in which you present it. I treasure open spaces and riding areas, that's why I moved to Arizona. It sucks when we see our homes change throughout the years. Whether it is Gentrification/decline of urban areas or the urbanization of rural areas. It's just change, if not progress but it's bound to happen.

#2: I have a BA in Geography with an Urban Planning emphasis from Valparaiso. I REALLY understand the dynamics of urban sprawl and hypertransitional development.

#3: It's sad to see the demise of the small/family farmer. I know, I was one. We had our farmland split by I-94 outside Michigan City when it was put in. It really wasn't the end of the world and it's not the reason we quit farming. We just learned how to make more money doing something else, rented our land out to other farmers and got on with our life.

Basically, small farms can't compete. Many farmers are bad business men anyways and have no business in farming because in the end, it is a self employed career.
Many don't have the reserves to weather bad growing seasons. I used to have 3 video stores until Blockbuster came to town. Nobody stages "Video Aid" concerts for the 100,000 video stores that Blockbuster put out of business because it's not romantic. Farming is.
It was one of the cornerstone industries of this country. Most of my family came from the coal mines of Southern Indiana or Western Kentucky to work in the steel mills in Gary, In.
None of them work there anymore. The steel industry was one of the cornerstones as was coal mining but now they are not. Things change, almost always to the more efficient.

Anybody have a guess as to how much is spent each year in Farmers subsidies?

Anybody know how much grain we ship to other countries as "aid" just because we know it will rot in the Silos if we don't?

Why is it that we pay farmers to leave fields fallow? How could it be possible that we produce more than we eat?

#4: We don't use Ethanol as much as we could because it basically costs about what oil does at $80 a barrel. It's still cheaper to deplete our enemies resources. When they run out, we will roll out the next technology for our society and sell our vast reserves to the world and keep them in an old technology culture.
There is 2x as much oil in Alaska and oil shale in the Rockies as Saudi Arabia. Their's is just cheaper and has a delivery infrastructure already in place and paid for.

#5: Big corporate farms are very efficient. They dominate the "deserts of Arizona and Southern California. 2 or 3 growing seasons and believe it or not, plenty of water from the Colorado. How does a 100 acre farmer in Indiana compete with that, especially in a year like this when the midwest had a drought.

#6: Honda, you said you used to be able to ride out your backyard onto limitless trails. If you don't own them, how can you blame others for your loss of riding areas. What everyone in Indiana needs to do is get the 300 square miles of the Hoosier National forest opened up for ATV's and Dirtbikes. Then you'd have plenty of places to ride like Wayne National forest in Ohio and the Hatfield-McCoy system in West Virginia.

#7: Or everyone could move west where there is so much public land to ride on, including the Imperial Sand dunes aka Glamis which is like 150,000 acres.

#8: I bring these points up in a Devil's advocate fashion. I have not studied this project at length.

#9: One more thing, if there is a way to speed up travel on the 41, it would certainly include bypasses around small towns like Sullivan and Carlisle. This would have a negative economic effect on the small communities along the Terre Haute - Evansville corridor. Think about it, who ever stops in Vincennes? Not me, with the bypass, I just motor on. I doubt they are in favor of losing money.

That's all.

[bigvforcer]

trx440,

You bring up great points and points that are well thought out instead of just thrown on here for people to decipher.

I agree that commercial farms are great but we still need the family farms to continue. THe family farms provide what the corporate farms can't. The frest cantelope and Watermelon. The good sweet corn, the straw to seed you yard, and many other things.

They also supply local meathouses with meat to sell. I understand that eventually we will probably be nothing but corporate farmers but why quit while we have the chance to farm. It may be that small farmer that helps when we need it most.

We have grain in silo's waiting to be used because the government pays corporate farms to grow ungodly amount of wheat. I am not saying it is bad to have stockpiles but we also need to think about what happens if:

Honda,

I agree with your point of urban expansion. I remember going to fort wayne six years ago and farming with my uncle and cousins during the summer on a BIG farm, 2500 to 3000 acres. Big for this area. I visisted last year after I had been in Michigan at Siver Lakes. MY GOD, their front yard was a neighborhood. It used to be a 100 acre field.

The point I am trying to get across is we have tons of areas IN TOWn that are vacant building and strip malls. Tear those down and build houses there. Before too long any open space we have will be concrete

And don't think that eventually Arizona won't be the same way. That brings a whole nother problem up!

[jesshamner]

I am with trx440 on this one as I too am a Geography major with emphasis in GIS and a minor in City and Regional Planning. I definitely feel for you farmers and such that are going to have to be transplanted. Its hard to fight this just b/c of the shear numbers of people that it benefits. I mean if you think about it, how many people in Indy and Eville travel back and forth a significant amount in a year?....quite a few. How many people is this road going to affect?....not as many as the commuters. I really don't think the Hoosier Nat'l Forest argument is going to hold up. I-64 travels through the southern part of it. I-65 travels dangerously close to Mammoth Cave Nat'l Park in Kentucky as well as the new I-66 that will be coming through. As trx440 said, you're going to have to find a new way to make money. I'm willing to bet that if you're lucky enough to own land where an exit is going to be....you're not going to have to worry about money too much. That land value sky rockets. You better start doing your homework on fuel sales.

[shaff107]

not to get in the middle of this but i thought that i would just tell brain-250 to shut the hel-l up. lebanon is a big town with alot of framers. dumb*****

[jesshamner]

brian-250, you can't catch a break can you?

[derekhonda]

yeah and if its the farmer son combo i think it is i would really like to see you pay check cause i doubt dean hired you you probably just hang out there with sloan.

[brian-250]

Originally posted by derekhonda
yeah and if its the farmer son combo i think it is i would really like to see you pay check cause i doubt dean hired you you probably just hang out there with sloan.


You coundent be more wrong, i dont even claim to deal with Dean.:devil:


Anyways i work on a farm just down the road from my house, NOT jacksons.;)


Shaff - yes there are alot of farms around here, but i cant find more then 5 that are still family/father and son operated.


Jess, i coundent catch a break of it hit me in the face and fell into my lap.:o

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by brian-250
You coundent be more wrong, i dont even claim to deal with Dean.:devil:


Anyways i work on a farm just down the road from my house, NOT jacksons.;)


Shaff - yes there are alot of farms around here, but i cant find more then 5 that are still family/father and son operated.


Jess, i coundent catch a break of it hit me in the face and fell into my lap.:o

I can name more. PS if you are working so much can i have that 50 dollars you owe me?

[MadMan400ex]

as far as the I-69 bypass is concerned, it needs to be done. i live in terre haute, indiana (which is where the I-70/US-41 intersection is). traffic is HORRIBLE throughout the day because of the overabundace of semis. it sometime takes over half an hour to travel the five miles of heaviest traffic.

that being said, i agree that the proposed route is bull****. they could find many better routes that wouldn't compromise as much rural area.