Broke the shaft the shifter mounts on?

[quad2xtreme]

Do I have to split the cases or can you remove the right cover and get it out?

Thanks,

Jon

[mikeboone]

No, the cases must be split. That is the shift shaft and has two prongs on back that engage the shift drum.

[quad2xtreme]

thanks. I figured. I looked at the part on diagrams and realize what you are talking about.

Wondering if I could get it welded for now and then replace later when something else goes on the engine?

I know a guy who can tig weld or stick weld. If he welded and then we quickly poured some oil on it to cool it, do you think it would mess up the oil seal? I guess it is worth a try.

/Jon

[yamablaster24]

ahh.....I would take it apart and risk burning up some seals. Plus your welding right by your aluminum case.:eek2: :eek2:

[Chino]

We welded my shifter back onto the shaft, it held for a little while but it wont really last, I just did it so i could finish the season out without taking my engine out, soon as the season was over I fixed it properly.

[mikeboone]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
thanks. I figured. I looked at the part on diagrams and realize what you are talking about.

Wondering if I could get it welded for now and then replace later when something else goes on the engine?

I know a guy who can tig weld or stick weld. If he welded and then we quickly poured some oil on it to cool it, do you think it would mess up the oil seal? I guess it is worth a try.

/Jon

If you REALY dont want to split the motor now just pull the oil seal out and do your stick weld. I would wrap some anti-flammable material around the shaft though and be sure to pull tank and carb of quad.

What you may run into when time comes is the shaft wont come through the hole w/o cutting the shift shaft with blobbed up weld on it.

[theTman]

i had mine welded by a pro welder...held up good!

[quad2xtreme]

mikeboone, no more posting after your bedtime. You aren't thinking clearly. :D

How am I supposed to get the seal back on there after the shifter is welded on? :)

[mikeboone]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
mikeboone, no more posting after your bedtime. You aren't thinking clearly. :D

How am I supposed to get the seal back on there after the shifter is welded on? :)

I thought you just wanted to weld the shaft itself back; not weld the shifter to the shaft. Leave the seal in if it's out near the end.

[quad2xtreme]

Only about 1/2" of hte shaft is broken off. Basically, it split right were the recess is that the shifter bolt goes through to lock the shifter on the shaft.

A better design would have been to leave the shaft the same thickness and use a cotter pin to make sure the shifter couldn't slide off. The clamping action could have still been achieved without the bolt having to be located so close to the shaft that it had to be recessed.

I removed the broken off piece out of the shifter and tapped it on the shaft. I plan to squeeze it down tight with a pair of vice-grips and then get a friend to weld. He is a professional welder with all the various types of welders. It sounds like should be able to get it welded without damaging the seal.

I really don't want to pay someone to tear this engine down just for this problem. If I went through this much effort, I would be compelled to have some engine work done too. Problem is I am looking to purchase the 450r or z450 so I don't want to dump any more money into the 400ex. Splitting the cases is beyond my skill level and probably requires many tools I don't have.

Thanks for the help.

[mikeboone]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
Only about 1/2" of hte shaft is broken off. Basically, it split right were the recess is that the shifter bolt goes through to lock the shifter on the shaft.

A better design would have been to leave the shaft the same thickness and use a cotter pin to make sure the shifter couldn't slide off. The clamping action could have still been achieved without the bolt having to be located so close to the shaft that it had to be recessed.

I removed the broken off piece out of the shifter and tapped it on the shaft. I plan to squeeze it down tight with a pair of vice-grips and then get a friend to weld. He is a professional welder with all the various types of welders. It sounds like should be able to get it welded without damaging the seal.

I really don't want to pay someone to tear this engine down just for this problem. If I went through this much effort, I would be compelled to have some engine work done too. Problem is I am looking to purchase the 450r or z450 so I don't want to dump any more money into the 400ex. Splitting the cases is beyond my skill level and probably requires many tools I don't have.

Thanks for the help.

Yea you should be fine. When you get ready to dump the 400 let me know what you want for the motor.

[JOEX]

Originally posted by quad2xtreme
...........

I really don't want to pay someone to tear this engine down just for this problem. If I went through this much effort, I would be compelled to have some engine work done too. Problem is I am looking to purchase the 450r or z450 so I don't want to dump any more money into the 400ex. Splitting the cases is beyond my skill level and probably requires many tools I don't have.

Thanks for the help.
The only special tool need is a flywheel puller, all that is is a large bolt. I just replaced my shift shaft about a month ago, it wasn't very difficult to do;)

Mine broke in the same place:ermm:

I know what you mean about doing some extra work while it's apart though:p

[mikeboone]

Originally posted by JOEX
The only special tool need is a flywheel puller, all that is is a large bolt. I just replaced my shift shaft about a month ago, it wasn't very difficult to do;)

Mine broke in the same place:ermm:

I know what you mean about doing some extra work while it's apart though:p

You dont even have to pull the flywheel. take the clutch side off and primary drive gears and clutch. Remove the 8mm bolts holding the center cases together and the centers will pull apart. The shift star and round trans roller on that side will have to come off as well--Dont lose the shift drum stopper pin.

The PD gear and clutch basket use 1 1/16" socket w/ Impact gun. 8mm and 10mm are the rest.

The shift shaft is easily tapped out when you pull the center off.

[JOEX]

Originally posted by mikeboone
You dont even have to pull the flywheel.......
Now you tell me!:p

[mikeboone]

Originally posted by JOEX
Now you tell me!:p

I didnt know to tell you before. There is ALOT of time spent by shops in bottom of these motors that is wasted. You dont have to touch the stator side unless your pulling the crank. As matter of fact; the trans will sit on the stator side if you lay it down flat.

Splitting the center cases is easy and fast. I spend more time with topend and such than bottom parting out. :)

[JOEX]

Originally posted by mikeboone
I didnt know to tell you before. There is ALOT of time spent by shops in bottom of these motors that is wasted. You dont have to touch the stator side unless your pulling the crank. As matter of fact; the trans will sit on the stator side if you lay it down flat.

Splitting the center cases is easy and fast. I spend more time with topend and such than bottom parting out. :)
I was just messin' with you;)

I went by the manual and I now know they tend to go through the whole process of tearing down the entire motor where as an experienced mechanic knows what really needs to taken apart.

I've been paying close attention to your posts lately and learning alot. Thanks for your input here;) :)

[mikeboone]

Originally posted by JOEX
I was just messin' with you;)

I went by the manual and I now know they tend to go through the whole process of tearing down the entire motor where as an experienced mechanic knows what really needs to taken apart.

I've been paying close attention to your posts lately and learning alot. Thanks for your input here;) :)

You did the right thing. Pulling it all off gives chance to check some other wear items such as starter clutch. The round barrels on back of the flywheel can develop flat spots over time. The bendix gear hardly ever has problems but the inner 'hub' that rides against the one way can get etched.

I really thought about installing a magnetic drain plug in bottom of mine. The screen and filter do catch alot but this would help as well. Do you know the thread pitch on that bolt? Maybe a flat magnet epoxied in bottom of crankcase would help as well.

[JOEX]

Originally posted by mikeboone
You did the right thing. Pulling it all off gives chance to check some other wear items such as starter clutch. The round barrels on back of the flywheel can develop flat spots over time. The bendix gear hardly ever has problems but the inner 'hub' that rides against the one way can get etched.

I really thought about installing a magnetic drain plug in bottom of mine. The screen and filter do catch alot but this would help as well. Do you know the thread pitch on that bolt? Maybe a flat magnet epoxied in bottom of crankcase would help as well.
I wish I knew what to check for, you're way over my head here. You know alot more than I do. If I knew what to look for I could probably find it;)

Are you talking about a magnetic plug for the oil tank? I'm sure the Serivice Honda site has the spec on the bolt. Do you think they a specific pitch to the threads?

When I took the screen out of the case there were what I thought alot of metal shavings in there which I assumed were original from the manufacturer four years ago. I cleaned everything out.

[mikeboone]

Originally posted by JOEX
I wish I knew what to check for, you're way over my head here. You know alot more than I do. If I knew what to look for I could probably find it;)

Are you talking about a magnetic plug for the oil tank? I'm sure the Serivice Honda site has the spec on the bolt. Do you think they a specific pitch to the threads?

When I took the screen out of the case there were what I thought alot of metal shavings in there which I assumed were original from the manufacturer four years ago. I cleaned everything out.

The bolt I was looking at is the one on stator side near shifter although one on oil tank is good idea too.