400ex front end on 300ex?

[300EXGurl]

I'm getting ready to buy stock 400ex a-arms (coudln't find any +anythings cheap enuf) and tie rods for my 300ex. DO I need anything else to make it work. Of course, I will still be needing shocks cuz' 400's are taller and I'm looking for something to shorten it up but preferably 400 cuz' I plan on getting a 400 in about a year or so so I don't want 300 shocks. Um, do the brakes and spindles and they interchangable? Cuz' I'm wondering if I need to buy 400 spindles too? Need Help Fast! Thanks.

[300exOH]

Normally the 400ex front end is a bad idea but I see you are running flat track so it may be okay. All you need are 400ex a arms/tie rods, a shockmount relocater bracket and some 400ex length shocks. The stock spindles and brakes/lines will work fine. I don't recommend using stock 400ex shocks. Aftermarket ones valved/sprung for the setup will work much better.

[cdalejef]

This is the most talked about subject on this website. Do a search and read the numerious post on this exact topic for all kinds of info.
But, in a nut shell its not the greatest idea.

[300EXGurl]

I just bought a set of stock a-arms and tie rods so that's all I'm getting. I think my 300 shocks will work just fine. Some guy is spose to be calling me and telling me how he put a 400ex axle in his 300. So I might try that if that's what he thinks I need.

[POW 352]

You get the a-arms tie rods a hetrick racing relocation mount for 75 bucks and a set of shocks... works great same as stock ride height but a lot more travel....see check it out and thats my gf not me...the 300 shocks make it run low like tt style. the front knuckles and spindles dont have to be changed unless u got money and want a full 400 front end

[ZeroLogic]

shes pretty:D
lol but anyways
the relocation mount is 100 dollars btw

http://www.hetrickracing.com/300exshockmount.htm

[POW 352]

yeah thanks yeah i thought it was 100 but they sold it to me for 75 im not sponsered or anything so i dont know....got it 2 months ago its still working great...um as for the shock angle stick mine next to a 400 looking at suspension only and theres no difference so not sure what everyones thinking about

[reconmaster]

go 2 www.racingben.piczo.com and check out my set up

[mad440]

I have ridin that 300ex with the 400ex front end it made a world of difference in ride quality and handling for the bike it is a very cheap way to really transform the handling of a 300ex

[big k]

i posted in another thread asking this but do the 250r arms fit the 300ex arent they the same as 400ex arms

[300exOH]

Originally posted by big k
i posted in another thread asking this but do the 250r arms fit the 300ex arent they the same as 400ex arms

Yes the 250r a arms will fit if you use the 300ex bushings but they won't work any better than 400ex arms. They MIGHT be okay for flat track racing but they aren't that great for other types of riding. The 400ex/250r a arms feel like an improvement until you ride on a properly built setup designed for the 300ex.

[reconmaster]

i feel its a great improvement for handling and i race xc and mx my weight it takes the 400ex front shocks to hit hard or even bottem i got it on the 2nd softest setting
heres some pics of the frame work on my ex
http://pic.piczo.com/img/i70051820_77205.jpg
http://pic.piczo.com/img/i70051814_56897.jpg
gussets from round tubing
http://pic.piczo.com/img/i70051804_47254.jpg

[bwamos]

Originally posted by 300EXGurl
I just bought a set of stock a-arms and tie rods so that's all I'm getting. I think my 300 shocks will work just fine. Some guy is spose to be calling me and telling me how he put a 400ex axle in his 300. So I might try that if that's what he thinks I need.

350x axle. Fits right up w/o custom spacers, and is 2 inches wider than the 300ex axle and stronger to boot.

[POW 352]

ok seriously any one who thinks the 400ex arms are only for tt need to step back and take a look...you people must not have ever rdien on a 300 with a 400ex front end and relocation bracket... it handles the same has more travel and isnt for flat track only...maybe if used with stock 300 shocks but the suspension angles to steep that way....so look at this pic and show me the problem with this...looks like a xc quad to me

[300exOH]

Originally posted by POW 352
ok seriously any one who thinks the 400ex arms are only for tt need to step back and take a look...you people must not have ever rdien on a 300 with a 400ex front end and relocation bracket... it handles the same has more travel and isnt for flat track only...maybe if used with stock 300 shocks but the suspension angles to steep that way....so look at this pic and show me the problem with this...looks like a xc quad to me

I give up.:rolleyes: And yes I have ridden with the conversion and I can tell you that aftermarket stuff built for the 300ex works MUCH better. The reasons for not doing the conversion has been posted sooo many times...and still nobody listens.:ermm: Have you even tried a proper aftermarket setup?

[POW 352]

yeah i have ridden on a proper setup and its the same thing the only thing the suspension can change is the camber angle of the front tires which becaus of the frame size it doesnt...the suspension works fine if it doesnt work on the 300 then ur saying it doesnt work on the 400 either because they are exactly the same i measured everything

[Trevor]

What all is needed to do this swap? Just A arms, shocks and re location bracket?

[300exOH]

Originally posted by POW 352
yeah i have ridden on a proper setup and its the same thing the only thing the suspension can change is the camber angle of the front tires which becaus of the frame size it doesnt...the suspension works fine if it doesnt work on the 300 then ur saying it doesnt work on the 400 either because they are exactly the same i measured everything

Well then I think your measurements are off because the upper and lower mounts on the two frames are not the same distance apart. And it's not only the camber that changes. When you move the a arms up and down you will get a noticeable change in toe in with the conversion.

[POW 352]

ok then look at it this way if someone gets an adjustable +1 400ex arm setup then they can adjust for this and also if someone is looking to save money dont you think they can deal with a slight change in handleing which i asure you there isnt...all the upper mounts will do if they move it in and out is change the camber adjustment but aftermarket suspension can adjust for that...sorry if im wrong but i thought camber was the angle the tires sit at compared to the vertical..... BUT even with this the suspension angle isnt extreme it doesnt sit tt style and steering isnt going to change the only difference could be a small camber change but very small (yeah i just measured the shocks not the arm mounts)

[300exOH]

Originally posted by POW 352
ok then look at it this way if someone gets an adjustable +1 400ex arm setup then they can adjust for this and also if someone is looking to save money dont you think they can deal with a slight change in handleing which i asure you there isnt...all the upper mounts will do if they move it in and out is change the camber adjustment but aftermarket suspension can adjust for that...sorry if im wrong but i thought camber was the angle the tires sit at compared to the vertical..... BUT even with this the suspension angle isnt extreme it doesnt sit tt style and steering isnt going to change the only difference could be a small camber change but very small (yeah i just measured the shocks not the arm mounts)

The camber isn't the only issue. Yes the camber can be adjusted but that doesn't mean the toe won't change as the arms move through their arc. If you take the shocks off and move the arms up and down you will see the change in toe that I'm talking about. This is one of main things that cause the handling issues. When the suspension compresses the tires will toe in which isn't good. If I remember right the mounts for the a arms on the two frames are positioned slightly differently which causes handling probs also. Also the balljoints on the 400ex arms are at a slightly different angle which will cause premature wear or even cause them to break. The majority of the handling "improvement" you are feeling with the conversion is because of the extra width.

[exman]

300 ex long shock arms...made specifically for a 300ex

[300exOH]

Originally posted by exman
300 ex long shock arms...made specifically for a 300ex

Now that is a nice front end:eek2: :devil:

And it's done right!:macho

[300exOH]

exman-Do they use 400ex length shocks? How much were the arms?

Looks like your nerfs are a bit tweaked

[POW 352]

ok well here ya go...when you get the money for aftermarket a-arms which is the opposite of the point of this setup to save money...use the shock mount relocator and use the 400ex shocks because an aftermarket company can make them to fit this setup and then it will be a proper 300 front end with 400ex shocks...and if ya complain any more your crazy


hey 300exOH i live in ne ohio what parts are ya in anywhere near perry...have u riden behind true value

[300exOH]

Originally posted by POW 352
ok well here ya go...when you get the money for aftermarket a-arms which is the opposite of the point of this setup to save money...use the shock mount relocator and use the 400ex shocks because an aftermarket company can make them to fit this setup and then it will be a proper 300 front end with 400ex shocks...and if ya complain any more your crazy


hey 300exOH i live in ne ohio what parts are ya in anywhere near perry...have u riden behind true value

that's basically the setup I have. I have burgards,shockmount bracket and 400ex length(I think) custom built elkas. I'm very happy with the front end.

I live about 45 min south of you. I'm in Spencer which is just west of Medina/Bruswick area. Where is the true value? Is it a legal riding area? I really don't want to ride anywhere that I would get in trouble for.

Here's a pic of my front end

[POW 352]

ok well its a completely legal spot to ride its behind a true value and strip club parking lot (just teazin sp?) its not anything to special yet a few jumps were there...me and my buddy just built a 30 odd foot double and are going to make it a 60 foot triple...the rest of the jumps are just like a quad length or a little more...we want some serious riders to go back there, every ones afraid to race that rides back there right now...its got hill climbs a little xc section and some mx style syuff...we ride on the weekends usually sunday if the weathers good...if ya wanna check it out get onto 2 take it east towards ashtibula...the first exit before 2 turns into 20 is farport nursery, get off there and turn right towards 20...at the light which is about half past no where down the road turn left now your on 20... the first dirt parking lot on the right is true value...either park and unload in the parking lot or drive around the right side of the building go down the hill and find somewhere out of the way to park...

[300exOH]

Sounds like a nice little place to ride. thanks for the info. I might have to check it out sometime. I really don't go too big on the jumps though since my knees are shot.:ermm: How big is the XC area? I looked up perry on mapquest and it's a bit farther than I remembered. I think it's more like an hour and a half from me. I've gone fishing out on lake Erie a few times out of the Perry area.

[redrunner]

OK, I have to jump in, 300EXOH and I went the long way around on this set up a few years back and yes you can get away with it...but what really throughs it off is using the 400 spindles. They are located geometrically different in relation to the steering stem tie rod mounting points.
I went through 2 set ups using the aftermarket arms and it worked great. If you really want the shizzy on it just do a search and you will have loads of pros and cons to read through.

Oh and I live just up the road in Mentor, I thought the True Value are was illegal and closed? Never been there but went looking for it a couple of years ago. If in you are allowed to putt around I would love to shoot over there when I get my quad back together,

This was the first set up.

[redrunner]

second set up.

[redrunner]

What is left of my current ride....

[300exOH]

Originally posted by redrunner
OK, I have to jump in, 300EXOH and I went the long way around on this set up a few years back and yes you can get away with it...but what really throughs it off is using the 400 spindles. They are located geometrically different in relation to the steering stem tie rod mounting points.
I went through 2 set ups using the aftermarket arms and it worked great. If you really want the shizzy on it just do a search and you will have loads of pros and cons to read through.

Oh and I live just up the road in Mentor, I thought the True Value are was illegal and closed? Never been there but went looking for it a couple of years ago. If in you are allowed to putt around I would love to shoot over there when I get my quad back together,

This was the first set up.

Yeah. I tried the 400 spindles also. They made it feel a little better at higher speeds but the turning radius was awful. Also the angle of the tie rods were all wrong.

If you find out any more on the true value place let me know. Maybe I can meet you up there some Saturday/Sunday.

[300exOH]

Originally posted by redrunner
What is left of my current ride....

I thought you'd have that beast back together by now.

[redrunner]

I am would be pretty sure we can find something in between us closer. I would bet it is not worth you driving all the way out here, but hell you can check out the new digs and have some steak and beer....:D

[300exOH]

Originally posted by redrunner
I am would be pretty sure we can find something in between us closer. I would bet it is not worth you driving all the way out here, but hell you can check out the new digs and have some steak and beer....:D

That would be nice. It's so hard to find a decent local place to ride. The steak and beer sounds worth the ride though.:devil:

[redrunner]

Originally posted by 300exOH
I thought you'd have that beast back together by now.

Ahhhh, been effin around with the gusset and powder coating!!

[300exOH]

Originally posted by redrunner
Ahhhh, been effin around with the gusset and powder coating!!

Did you find someone local to do it or did you ship it out? Sounds like it'll be nice when it's finished.

[redrunner]

Going to pm's

[300exOH]

Sorry to get off topic folks:o

[POW 352]

ok yeah that was my second thought...keeping 400 arms getting the hole knuckle, spindle everything 400 front end with a baldwin motorsports 250r brake mount relocation bracket and 250r dual piston caliper...but you say that that sucks? did u run a full 400 frontend??? cause i would like to run this dual piston caliper setup if it would work and iron out all the kinks in the setup i have right now...i checked the camber issue u were talking about it does camber but i think it does at the very top of the stroke beyond the point of suspension travel...


yes the true value spot was closed for a bit but now its not anymore but across the tracks at sidleys is off limits and u can get arrested...the xc spot is pretty big atleast 2/3 of the hole riding area its just tons of trails all through the woods...

[300exOH]

Originally posted by POW 352
ok yeah that was my second thought...keeping 400 arms getting the hole knuckle, spindle everything 400 front end with a baldwin motorsports 250r brake mount relocation bracket and 250r dual piston caliper...but you say that that sucks? did u run a full 400 frontend??? cause i would like to run this dual piston caliper setup if it would work and iron out all the kinks in the setup i have right now...i checked the camber issue u were talking about it does camber but i think it does at the very top of the stroke beyond the point of suspension travel...


yes the true value spot was closed for a bit but now its not anymore but across the tracks at sidleys is off limits and u can get arrested...the xc spot is pretty big atleast 2/3 of the hole riding area its just tons of trails all through the woods...

I had '87 250r a arms(with adjustable camber) shockmount bracket,400ex spindles and custom works built for the setup. It still didn't work any better than without the 400ex spindles. The spindles cause the tie rods to be at a very bad angle which made it even worse. The camber wasn't really an issue since mine was adjustable but the toe would change quite a bit as the a arms moved. Some change is toe is normal but with the conversion it was worse than it should be. I can't really say much about the 250r brakes but it won't affect the handling.

I might have to check out the true value thing sometime. The xc part would be what I'd be there for.

[redrunner]

Originally posted by 300exOH
I might have to check out the true value thing sometime. The xc part would be what I'd be there for.

Ok, I will take a spin out there and check it out and give you a ring.

[300exOH]

Originally posted by redrunner
Ok, I will take a spin out there and check it out and give you a ring.

Wouldn't hurt to check into it I guess. Any riding spot would be better than the back yard.:ermm:

[POW 352]

yeah my bad i ment to say the toe angle changes at the peak of the suspension travel