The President.

[kawasaki_ridah]

Okay, this is completely opinion based. So don't trash talk me, I'm just fed up with a lot of people. The hurricane is not George W. Bush's fault lol, and no matter what anyone say's he does like black people (*cough Kanye West), that's so stupid to think about! And please before you start pointing fingers at G. W. remember he can't do anything without Congress approving. So if you want to point your fingers at someone look at Congress! George W. Tried to release reserve oils, but Congress rejected... hmm.. dosen't seem like a bad guy to me! As for the war, I have family over there fighting for there country. Yes against terrisom, it doesn't matter how many people say this war is pointless. We got attacked and have been attacked again no! As far as WMD's do you not think that were better safe than sorry? If we wasn't over there right now there would be people (probably the same) argueing and crying because we didn't go to war. So why can't everyone agree on one subject and stop trash talking your president! He is your leader support him, if Kerry won, I would support him just believe in your leader!

[OverBored]

Well hurricane might not be his fault but he still said the blunders were his fault..

[Pappy]

Originally posted by OverBored
Well hurricane might not be his fault but he still said the blunders were his fault..

imagine that, the man in charge taking the blame.


there will be so much fallout politically from this that noone will be safe from it. maybe some good will come from it all.

[OverBored]

Dont think he had a choice on not saying it..

not with all the countries that wanted to send stuff telling their story of trying to get aid here and it was not granted to come in until days to a week later, some stuff like cell sights and communications equipment from europe is still awaiting approval.

[Woodsrider]

Originally posted by Pappy
imagine that, the man in charge taking the blame.


there will be so much fallout politically from this that noone will be safe from it. maybe some good will come from it all.
LOL yah right. If there is any good to come out of this, it will be so pork laden you would never be able to see it. It was good to see a politician own up though, wasn't it?


George W. Tried to release reserve oils, but Congress rejected... The Democrats to be more specific;)
The republicans in our stae wanted to temporarily roll back the states $.34/gallon gas tax to offset the high cost of gas, and the Democrats said no. But thats a different story, Id be better off leaving alone:grr:

[kawasaki_ridah]

Bush took responsibility for it because the governor just left his people there and expected Bush to do somehting about it then he didn't. Cause Bush thought that the governor would do it since it was his state and all.:ermm:

[OverBored]

No comment :)

[LTandRaptorider]

Originally posted by OverBored
No comment :)

That's good... ;)

[Butters]

i just find it real hard to support/back someone with that kind of power. no matter who they are.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by kawasaki_ridah
Bush took responsibility for it because the governor just left his people there and expected Bush to do somehting about it then he didn't. Cause Bush thought that the governor would do it since it was his state and all.:ermm:


:(

[derekhonda]

Can anyone clear this up.

Doesnt if have to be a state disaster (or whatever thats called)for atleast 48 hours before the government can come in and make it a federal disaster?

[Quad18star]

I gotta give it to Bush ... atleast he had the nuts to accept part of the blame on all of this ... but he isn't the only one that fingers should be pointed at . This was a massive storm ... it doesn't matter how well prepared you are , things that you never expect to happen will happen . I watched his speech tonight and he has hope that the states affected will overcome this event and return to normal life .

But like someone else ... other countries were willing to help from the moment this thing hit land and wiped everything out . I know our Canadian Navy had ships in port loaded with tons of medical supplies , food , water purification equipement , etc. but we were told to stay away . We could have been there within 2 days , but instead we weren't granted the authority to come and help until almost 2 weeks later . Now our ships have been diverted to a port in Florida where the US army is sorting out our supplies . I think that the commoradery (?) between the USA and Canada needs a bit of a boost .

[Woodsrider]

derekhonda brings up a good point. Not sure on that.
One thing about the whole thing that kinda has me puzzled is this. Mostof NewOrleans was not flooded until something like 48 hours after the storms eye passed. It wasn't until the levies broke that the real problems started. right? So up until this point the problems weren't "catostrophic", could this explain the delay of FEMA deploying help?

[Woodsrider]

Originally posted by Quad18star
But like someone else ... other countries were willing to help from the moment this thing hit land and wiped everything out . I know our Canadian Navy had ships in port loaded with tons of medical supplies , food , water purification equipement , etc. but we were told to stay away . We could have been there within 2 days , but instead we weren't granted the authority to come and help until almost 2 weeks later . Now our ships have been diverted to a port in Florida where the US army is sorting out our supplies . I think that the commoradery (?) between the USA and Canada needs a bit of a boost .

it was four days after the storm passed before I saw anything on the news of offers from other countries for aid. I'm not saying the offers weren't made, Im just saying the media took that long to report it:confused: Why did the government not want to accept foreign aid? Chit as much foreign aid as we dole out, its about time to get a little in return, right?

[OverBored]

Believe it becomes Federal as soon as Federal decides it should become Federal...

This is the problem, they took so damn long.

[OverBored]

Even worse! they supposed to jump to action on any major disaster.... including Nuclear Plant problems.... Boy they better shape up.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency or FEMA is an agency of the United States government dedicated to swift response in the event of disasters, both natural and man-made. It is part of the Department of Homeland Security and is run by Under Secretary of Emergency Preparedness and Response.

FEMA coordinates the work of federal, state, and local agencies in responding to floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, and other natural disasters. FEMA provides financial assistance to individuals and governments to rebuild homes, businesses, and public facilities; trains firefighters and emergency medical professionals; and funds emergency planning throughout the United States and its territories.

FEMA also has responsibilities in the event of a severe accident at a nuclear power plant. [1] [2]

FEMA has responsibilities in what it defines as four domains of emergency management:

Mitigation: Reducing the severity or likelihood of the hazard.
Preparedness: Ensuring you have the capability to respond to the hazard.
Response: Immediate actions taken to save lives, property, the environment, and the economy.
Recovery: Subsequent actions taken to restore property, jobs, and services.

[OverBored]

Well now we can see the real problem, its now part of Homeland security instead of where clinton put it as a cabinet-level agency, which it ran very well in terms of Hurricane Andrew and 9/11

[kawasaki_ridah]

Well like I said in order for Bush to take the aid Congress has to agree to it. I mean not all fingers can be pointed at one man. I mean the freaking governor left before all of his people were out of the state! I know if Bush was in that situation he would stay the entire time, he is the only president to visit a war site like he did in Iraq. He even sheds tiers when Americans are dying, I'm not say that he couldn't have done more, but it would be hard for him to. I mean look that freaking woman is still agurvating him about talking to him, this term for him is full!

[OverBored]

No he does not have to wait for congress... Homeland security was formed by a Presidential Directive, which FEMA is now part of because put it as part of it.

FEMA is supposed to be READY... before it even hit, they are part of preparedness and response...

They did not prepare and they responded VERY slowly. And you cant say they didnt expect it to be this bad, for god sakes the place is built below sea level, thats like saying i gonna put a cereal bowl outside in the rain and it wount fill up with water.

PS the governor ordered evacuation of the entire city 2 times before it hit. Him leaving is part of that, if they stayed what can he do? go and drag them out?

[kawasaki_ridah]

What did you expect Bush to do about it then?

[OverBored]

Make sure his damn Homeland Security functions properly...

Originally posted by OverBored
Make sure his damn Homeland Security functions properly... Profile For OverBored
Date Registered: 09-14-2005
Status: Member
Total Posts: 48 (40.20 posts per day)

:eek:

[troutman561]

well for the most part its nice to see a mostly positive non-flame fest about bush in this forum.. but anyways, its good he took blame for it, it shows hes a mant hat can own up to it eventho it wasnt really his fault... iv heard he signed a bill 2 days b4 the storm hit allow stating any money needed to rebuild would be avalible..

oh yea i was very suprised to see the canadian not talk bad about bush.. thats something u dont see from most forign ppl nowadays about the US

[rneal]

Originally posted by OverBored
Well now we can see the real problem, its now part of Homeland security instead of where clinton put it as a cabinet-level agency, which it ran very well in terms of Hurricane Andrew and 9/11

The response to Andrew took 3 days longer than the response to Katrina....

The evacuation came only after 2 private phone calls from the president urging for the evacuation. This is a state matter not a federal matter...

FEMA does not have the man power to evacuate a city period. No matter what "movies" you have seen, the numbers simply aren't there. Besides, pencil pushers cannot stop disasters. They help answer questions and file for federal money after a disaster. Trust me, my home was flooded by Hurricane Ivan last year.

How is this storm one man's fault? Hind sight is always 20/20, could haves, should haves, and would haves are irrelivant to the matter at hand.

Instead of pointing your finger and politicising a hurricane GO HELP CLEAN UP THE MESS.....

[DeerNuts]

Those are some good points. But how come the former director of FEMA, Michael Brown, claimed to not know that there were 20,000 in a convention center when CNN had reported the fact 2 days ago?
What the hell?
That is something that he may still have to own up to. How could you be so ignorant, and then make BS remarks about how well things are going? Why try and paint it so nice. Why not show the bodies?
I realize they were undermanned, etc.. but if the focus of the federal government had been on preparedness and improving response and national security, then why was it such a cluster-f***?
What happens if an unexpected disaster occurs and you do not have the means to evacuate? Then what happens? Can you count on the govt. to help you out, since it has now become their responsibility?
See what we are left with? A whole lot of questions that SHOULD have been answered a few years before. Or is this all just a work in progress?

[OverBored]

Thank you,

At least some see the bigger picture, it goes much further than Katrina... If they screw up something that could have been prepared for days in advance what will happen when something like god forbid another attack happens.

Michael Brown resigned right after didnt he?? or is he the new guy, i know the guy in charge at the time resigned. Couldnt take the heat i guess.

[Quad18star]

Originally posted by OverBored
Thank you,

At least some see the bigger picture, it goes much further than Katrina... If they screw up something that could have been prepared for days in advance what will happen when something like god forbid another attack happens.

Michael Brown resigned right after didnt he?? or is he the new guy, i know the guy in charge at the time resigned. Couldnt take the heat i guess.

Yes Brown was the one that resigned after the fact . I guess the pressure got to him , but I'm sure the pressure would get to most of us also if we were in charge . Having to deal with a disaster that has displaced over 1 million people and you got everyone jumping down your throat would lead 99.9% of people to break down .

You made a good point about what would happen if a sudden catastrophy were to happen . Bush said lastnight in his speech that he would make sure things get looked at , to ensure that if something ever does happen , your country will be better prepared .

Troutman561 ... us foreigners don't ALWAYS complain about Bush . He has done things that a lot of countries frown upon and not everyone agrees with him ... but he does do good things for his country and other countries also .

[OverBored]

Agreed.

Maybe its easier for people looking from the outside to see, but yes he does good as well or at least he means well.

My biggest problem with this is that its homeland security, the one thing that should be operating at its best, for the people of America to be safe and its not.

[wilkin250r]

In all reality, the real screw-up here is the State, the Mayor of New Orleans and the Governor of Louisiana.

From what I understand, voluntary evacuation was ordered a couple days before Katrina hit land. Bush urged the Mayor to make it mandatory, but the mayor refused. Who is to blame for this one? Certainly not Bush.

Also, the federal government cannot step in, no-way no-how, absolutely CANNOT, until the State government gives permission. It was my understanding that permission was granted a little late.

Plus, immediate emergency response is the job of the State and City government. You can't expect the federal government to lay out an evacuation plan for every single city in the entire country. The Federal goverment is responsible for relief aid and support, but first responsibility goes to the City.

[infantry317]

I heard on the radio the other day some "expert" say the federal response to Andrew was 5 days. This one was 4.

The mayor of N.O. should be strung up for letting 300+ buses go underwater instead of helping the poor evacuate like the feds said 5 days earlier. I'm sure he didn't want the city to foot the bill.

[OverBored]

The governer screwed up???? lets stop talking about whats been "Heard" and deal with facts for a minute.

Here is the timeline.... please take not of the first entry.

Friday, August 26
GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA [Office of the Governor]

Link to source ==> http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=973

Please not that once state of emergency is declared by the state Federal Government is to JUMP TO ACTION IMMEDIATELY!!!

Saturday, August 27
GOV. HALEY BARBOUR DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN MISSISSIPPI

Link to source ==>
http://www.governorbarbour.com/EO939.htm

5AM CDT — KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: “I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.”

Link to Source with letter to president 2 days prior! ==>
http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=976

^^^^ VERY IMPORTANT LINK/PART OF THE PROCESS!!! ^^^^


Now here is where it shows that Bush did do his job and gave Homeland Security/FEMA OK!!!! for Federal Assistance..

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA:
“Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.”

Link to Source ==>
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html

Now!! great you might say he did his job... but did he follow up??? it is his Department of Homeland Security.. This OK was given on the same day it was requested on the 27th, are you telling me 2 days notice and you still take until 4 days after to have National Gaurd which is LOCATED! there in place????

I wount even bother posting the links to letters to Bush asking for assistance on upgrading the levees which was denied because money could have been spent better "Else where"

So lets stop dealing with hearsay and deal with facts please... Government Blundered! no one else and certainly not the States, Governer's or Mayors fault.

[Matt37]

BUSH IS THE MAN!!

[OverBored]

Perhaps you should read past the part where i said he did do his job.

[Atkins]

I was impressed when he took the blame for it, someone needed to. It wasnt his fault though, most was with the Mayor of New Orleans, and the Governor of Louisiana, and then with the Director of Homeland Security.

[OverBored]

how can you blame the Mayor and Governor??? They did their part in getting the Federal help.

[troutman561]

they did nothing, they jsut let 300 buses sit in N.O while they got destroyed when they could have been used to get the poorer ppl out

[ZSK]

Originally posted by OverBored
The governer screwed up???? lets stop talking about whats been "Heard" and deal with facts for a minute.

Here is the timeline.... please take not of the first entry.

Friday, August 26
GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA [Office of the Governor]........



To quote CNN

"Sunday, August 28, 2005

At 10 p.m. (11 p.m. ET) Saturday the hurricane center issued a hurricane warning from Morgan City, Louisiana, to the Alabama-Florida border, an area that includes New Orleans. A warning means that hurricane conditions are expected within the warning area within the next 24 hours."

Look at the date. According to what you posted, a state of emergency was issued BEFORE the hurricane hit, BEFORE it was even given a huricane warning. How do you expect the federal government to react to an incident that hadn't occured yet?

And please take NOTE, NOTE has an E in it. You wouldn't beleive how hard it is to take nots.

[Atkins]

Originally posted by OverBored
how can you blame the Mayor and Governor??? They did their part in getting the Federal help. They decided they didnt want to deal with it and went cryng to the feds. The should have gone door to door and bussed those without cars out of the city, and not to the Superdome and other places within New Orleans.

If the local, state, or national Government blunders, its always someones fault.

[JATV250]

There were a lot of people that refused to leave when they had a chance. That is their fault. It's sad that their children had to die when the flodding started.

[bwamos]

Quoted from the post-gazzette in pittsburg. I enjoyed reading the view from his perspective.

Direct Link (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/pp/05254/568876.stm)


Jason van Steenwyk is a Florida Army National Guardsman who has been mobilized six times for hurricane relief. He notes that:

"The federal government pretty much met its standard time lines, but the volume of support provided during the 72-96 hour was unprecedented. The federal response here was faster than Hugo, faster than Andrew, faster than Iniki, faster than Francine and Jeanne."

For instance, it took five days for National Guard troops to arrive in strength on the scene in Homestead, Fla. after Hurricane Andrew hit in 1992. But after Katrina, there was a significant National Guard presence in the afflicted region in three.

Journalists who are long on opinions and short on knowledge have no idea what is involved in moving hundreds of tons of relief supplies into an area the size of England in which power lines are down, telecommunications are out, no gasoline is available, bridges are damaged, roads and airports are covered with debris, and apparently have little interest in finding out.

So they libel as a "national disgrace" the most monumental and successful disaster relief operation in world history.

I write this column a week and a day after the main levee protecting New Orleans breached. In the course of that week:

More than 32,000 people have been rescued, many plucked from rooftops by Coast Guard helicopters.

The Army Corps of Engineers has all but repaired the breaches and begun pumping water out of New Orleans.

Shelter, food and medical care have been provided to more than 180,000 refugees.

Journalists complain that it took a whole week to do this. A former Air Force logistics officer had some words of advice for us in the Fourth Estate on his blog, Moltenthought:

"We do not yet have teleporter or replicator technology like you saw on 'Star Trek' in college between hookah hits and waiting to pick up your worthless communications degree while the grown-ups actually engaged in the recovery effort were studying engineering.

"The United States military can wipe out the Taliban and the Iraqi Republican Guard far more swiftly than they can bring 3 million Swanson dinners to an underwater city through an area the size of Great Britain which has no power, no working ports or airports, and a devastated and impassable road network.

"You cannot speed recovery and relief efforts up by prepositioning assets (in the affected areas) since the assets are endangered by the very storm which destroyed the region.

"No amount of yelling, crying and mustering of moral indignation will change any of the facts above."

"You cannot just snap your fingers and make the military appear somewhere," van Steenwyk said.

Guardsmen need to receive mobilization orders; report to their armories; draw equipment; receive orders and convoy to the disaster area. Guardsmen driving down from Pennsylvania or Navy ships sailing from Norfolk can't be on the scene immediately.

Relief efforts must be planned. Other than prepositioning supplies near the area likely to be afflicted (which was done quite efficiently), this cannot be done until the hurricane has struck and a damage assessment can be made. There must be a route reconnaissance to determine if roads are open, and bridges along the way can bear the weight of heavily laden trucks.

And federal troops and Guardsmen from other states cannot be sent to a disaster area until their presence has been requested by the governors of the afflicted states.

Exhibit A on the bill of indictment of federal sluggishness is that it took four days before most people were evacuated from the Louisiana Superdome.

The levee broke Tuesday morning. Buses had to be rounded up and driven from Houston to New Orleans across debris-strewn roads. The first ones arrived Wednesday evening. That seems pretty fast to me.

A better question -- which few journalists ask -- is why weren't the roughly 2,000 municipal and school buses in New Orleans utilized to take people out of the city before Katrina struck?

[OverBored]

The Superdome is classified as a Hurricane shelter, this is where people go who cant evacuate.

My final quote on this... Believe it says it all.

Richard Falkenrath, deputy homeland security adviser to President Bush:

''There's a lot we don't know yet, but certainly we have a lot to learn from Katrina, the mobilization started too late. It should have been sooner."

[zeppelin]

it was gov. kathlene blanco. bush asked if he should send the national gurd in, and she said she needed 24 hours to decide. wtf, she shouldnt have even had to think about it, maybe she needed to talk to advisers or somthing, 24 fncking hours, damn

[OverBored]

Dude, here is the entire timeline OK??? he said she said crap got to stop..

Suggest you start reading from the 29th, yes Fema put in national gaurds but there was no COMMANDER! so they sat there on their butts.

http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline

[zeppelin]

okay then, thats just what the mayor of N.O. said on our local news like 12 days after the storm hit, actualy i saw him in the baton rouge airport telling everyone about how bush had told him that he wanted to send troops in sooner, but blanco did not want him to, i dunno Kip Holden was probably just full of crap

[kbass24emtp]

FEMA did send USAR (urban search and rescue) teams in before the storm.

[kawasaki_ridah]

Originally posted by Matt37
BUSH IS THE MAN!!

+1!

[Kurt]

blame the hurricane

[MOFO]

Originally posted by OverBored
how can you blame the Mayor and Governor??? They did their part in getting the Federal help.


Wow... your clueless.

Give it up Dierwolf... you dont even live in the US. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by MOFO
Wow... your clueless.

Give it up Dierwolf... you dont even live in the US. :rolleyes:

Serously, you should worry about your country or island or whatever, stop obssesing over Bush.

[CannondaleRider]

I find it funny how people always blame Bush......just Bush.

Do you think just because he says something it happens.

Like the war, do you think Bush said "Lets go to war" and it just.....happened.

Congress has to agree with him....all of Congress.

I'm a little rusty on the members of Senate and Congress, but is it 435 people in Congress, or just 35?