suspensions of the future

[Rootar]

i dont mean jsut simply IRS or IRS sucks type thread i mean waht do you think we will beridng in say 10 years solid axle is old as dirt and im sure in 10 years solid rearaxles will be prehistoric.

(I am speaking about sport quads)

i think the companys are gona start to head towards the independant rear suspension but the dual a-arm thing isnt the best idea for sport quads. i think bombadeir (sp?) is gonna step it up they are way ahead of everyone else as far as rear suspension. their trailing rear arm is amazing (ive rode and outlander it slid and played and felt like a solid axle where you needed it and then was so smooth and forgiving when the trail got rough and choppy.) this design i think is what i think we gonna be switching to on later sport quads i mean in turns in feels like a solid axle and everywhere else it has the advantages on irs


also i think they are gonna start using metals other than steel and chormoly for the suspension components (steel is getting very expensive and other metals are some what going down)

so what do yall think and dotn bash other people and get this thread closed lets just hear everyones ideas and thoguhts

[rollie]

i donjjt see why they'd stop using an axle...it works fine...and if you rode a track with IRS....it would soak up all the bumps and take the fun out of it:p

[TheFontMaster]

Finaly someone agree's with me about bombardier's rear IRS system, I been saying for a while that, that rear suspension is what they need to be putting on sport IRS quads.

[bradley300]

i bet the trailing arms were an experiment for bomb. seems like they have worked out, i wouldnt be suprised to see trailing a-arms on a bomb sport quad

[NacsMXer]

IRS would be too heavy for a sport quad. Just more parts to break, more maintainence and more unsprung weight. Not very practical for any production class racers either. I do, however think IRS is a great idea for utilities. My dad has a Rincon and the IRS makes it ride like a Cadillac :cool:

[the yazer]

check this out

http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/ATV/2006Models/HighPerformance/Outlaw/

[450robot]

i would like to see someone pull off a linkage cantilever type front suspension for a quad

its basically where the shock is, there is a rod that cconnects to a linkage on the chassis near where the shock mounts would be, and then the shock connect to the other end of the linkage, and mount horizontally on the frame

this could be a huge benefit as you could mount a huge shock in the the chassis, for tons of travel without worrying about clearance of a arms design changes

that would be pimp, and would have incredible performance i think

[muff]

Originally posted by NacsMXer
IRS would be too heavy for a sport quad. Just more parts to break, more maintainence and more unsprung weight. Not very practical for any production class racers either. I do, however think IRS is a great idea for utilities. My dad has a Rincon and the IRS makes it ride like a Cadillac :cool:


I don't know about that. Think about it, the only extra weight would need to be the additional shock. Ever lift an aftermarket swingarm? I'm sure you could get 2 aluminum swingarms that only need to support 1 wheel to weigh as much as that.

IRS would be very practical, I just think the quad market needs to grow a little bit more. Look at the bikes, especially aluminum frames. Atleast yamaha is taking the step with the new half framed raptor, and magnesium parts on the yfz. I would also like to see a production company come out with a narrow front end chassis and fuel injection!!

[CannondaleRider]

Aluminum frames? Magnesium Parts? Fuel injection? All those are nice NEW upgrades on the YFZ huh? ..................................Cannondales were so far ahead of there time.

[hondardr4life]

I think we'll still have solid rear axles 10 years from now. Any thing else would take away from the sport feel.

[muff]

Originally posted by CannondaleRider
Aluminum frames? Magnesium Parts? Fuel injection? All those are nice NEW upgrades on the YFZ huh? ..................................Cannondales were so far ahead of there time.

read the post...I said the raptor has the half aluminum frame and the yfz the magnesium parts. and that it would be nice to see the full aluminum frame and fuel injection. Yes the cannondales were nice as far as innovation wise, but for quality and dependability they are not there!! Its to bad ATK isn't doing more for the sport.

[rancid]

looks like we all should thank cannondale for all they gave.

[muff]

Originally posted by hondardr4life
Any thing else would take away from the sport feel.

What exactly is the sport feel? Lots of power and good suspension?

[rancid]

in 85 we people sayed quads suck i will stick with my 3wheeler well look at us now we evolved and will keep doing so and we will love it.

[hondardr4life]

What I mean by the sport feel is the handling. Power and good suspension are the major part of it, but handling. I have ridden soo many IRS utilities, and I have never liked them at all. They are very tippy. All I know is that if anyone other than polaris (would die before I bought one) comes out with an IRS "sport" quad, I will not be buying it. Slap a PEP rear shock on a 450r with a wider axle and thats better then any IRS out there. Plus the IRS is too heavy for MX riding. Now, I think that IRS is a great idea for woods riders, and if I raced woods I would look into one. But for MX, it just isnt gonna happen.

[muff]

I'm sure it'd be possible to design an IRS quad that wouldn't handle like the typical setup does. Look at that 400ex/xr650 conversion or whatever it was, I'm sure that thing kicked ***. Like I said before, it would also be possible to make 2 swingarms that weigh just about as much as 1 aftermarket steel one does. If you don't believe me then you obviously haven't picked one up before.

[watts16]

Originally posted by 450robot
i would like to see someone pull off a linkage cantilever type front suspension for a quad

its basically where the shock is, there is a rod that cconnects to a linkage on the chassis near where the shock mounts would be, and then the shock connect to the other end of the linkage, and mount horizontally on the frame

this could be a huge benefit as you could mount a huge shock in the the chassis, for tons of travel without worrying about clearance of a arms design changes

that would be pimp, and would have incredible performance i think


like this. its an r/c truck chassis

[prepracing]

Originally posted by NacsMXer
IRS would be too heavy for a sport quad. Just more parts to break, more maintainence and more unsprung weight. Not very practical for any production class racers either. I do, however think IRS is a great idea for utilities. My dad has a Rincon and the IRS makes it ride like a Cadillac :cool:

I agree, I don't think it would hold up for XC racing and would be pretty heavy to waller around for 2hr races. And is definately to heavy for MX. What is that European sport quad that is IRS all the way around isn't it called an Eraser or something like that. It has never fared very well in those grand prix races or anything :confused:

[Rootar]

the twin swing arm idea should work good the only weight youd be adding would maybe be 10-15 pounds total and if it had an all aluminum frame liek the dales youd never know the extra weight i mean come on. alot of you guys need to get over your irs is to weak or irs is to heavy attitudes and start think postive about these things. heck 10 years down the road you might jsut be riding what your *****ing about wont work right now.

so enuff with what you think is so bad about irs i wanted to know what you alls thoghts were on suspension desgin and the way it works not how sumthing wont work and how its to heavy and all

[250rmike]

we should definatly all be thanking cdale. they stepped up the bar and started the semi/race ready factory quads and their the reason the factories are getting into the sport now. without them wed prolly still be on 400ex's and maybe the z400. they took chances which didnt pay off in the end for them but it did for us.

depending on wha ttype of racing irs on a sport quad might work. for mx it wouldnt be a good idea unles they could somehow lighten in and reduce body roll. same goes for tt. but for xc on the other hand i think it would work well

[450robot]

Originally posted by exracer16
like this. its an r/c truck chassis

yah, just like that, it think it would work great

[Smoker]

Originally posted by 450robot
i would like to see someone pull off a linkage cantilever type front suspension for a quad

You mean like this?



http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/slytopic/detail?.dir=88b1&.dnm=3978.jpg&.src=ph

(Unfortunately, I don't have CAD at home or I could post better pictures

I've put a lot of thought into a rear IRS quad, I think if it was built right, it would smoke anything out there. I think the Outlaw is a step in the right direction although they should have scrapped the whole Predator chassis and started from scratch. I would get the seat height lower so your c.o.g. is lower so the chassis isn't fighting the suspension for cornering. The biggest battle would be to get the weight down, but I think if the design challenge was presented to the engineers, they would be able to get the weight to performance ratio figured out. The future of development depends on development of the sport. I'm glad to see things finally moving in the right direction.[http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/slytopic/detail?.dir=88b1&.dnm=3978.jpg&.src=ph

[450robot]

the link doesnt worky


i remember they did it once on a hetrcik racing quad, of course it was a min, but it would adapt well to a full sized quad well

heres a pic of the linkage

http://www.atvsport.com/images/elements/837163_kaseashocks.jpg

a pic of how the shocks mount

http://www.atvsport.com/images/elements/837163_Keseatank.jpg

a pic of the whole quad

http://www.atvsport.com/images/elements/837163_kaseaside.jpg

"We have more than 3 inches of travel utilizing only only 1 inch of shock travel," says Peak

[Smoker]

Hopefully the link worky now, the set up I designed used a yfz type linkage, all the numbers were ficticious but it turned 6 inches of shaft travel into 18 inches of total travel. There were a lot of factors not accounted for, it was just bust out a design for school.

[TheFontMaster]

Originally posted by 450robot
the link doesnt worky


i remember they did it once on a hetrcik racing quad, of course it was a min, but it would adapt well to a full sized quad well

heres a pic of the linkage

http://www.atvsport.com/images/elements/837163_kaseaside.jpg

"We have more than 3 inches of travel utilizing only only 1 inch of shock travel," says Peak

I don't really see how you would get more travel out of that set up than just a shock bolted to the frame, and the a arm. It looks like a cool concept, I remember seeing that mini in a magazine or something. Mabey I just don't grasp the concept of how it work.

[rancid]

its a cantiler setup, like a lever system

[Atkins]

Originally posted by 450robot
a pic of the whole quad

http://www.atvsport.com/images/elements/837163_kaseaside.jpg


I bet you wouild get a ton more travel with that, if instead of having a straight bar, have another shock, like 2 shocks per wheel, 1 horizontal and 1 vertical. Maybe have the traditional shock take care of the smoothness with not so much resistance, and the additional shock sprung real tight for the rough stuff and hard hits. Does this sound feasable?

[zeppelin]

there is a reason that frontmaster doesnt understand how it would get more travel, as long as you keep the way the wheel is mounted the same you can never move it further, if you do your frame will start to bottom out, but i dont think it actualy was after more travel what that system does is say where the stock shock compresses 2 in for every 5 in of wheel travel, there system might work like 1 in for every 5 in of travel

[400exrider707]

An IRS quad will NEVER powerslide around a corner like a straight axle quad, but it would have its advantages else where.

Originally posted by 450robot
i would like to see someone pull off a linkage cantilever type front suspension for a quad

its basically where the shock is, there is a rod that cconnects to a linkage on the chassis near where the shock mounts would be, and then the shock connect to the other end of the linkage, and mount horizontally on the frame

this could be a huge benefit as you could mount a huge shock in the the chassis, for tons of travel without worrying about clearance of a arms design changes

that would be pimp, and would have incredible performance i think

What you are talking about is similar to the original pushrod bellcrank system like the open wheel race cars utilize. It has been attempted before. The most recent issue of Dirty Wheels, with the Rappy and Outlaw on the cover have a quad in their 50 Wildest quads ever, that implimented such a system. Problem is the excess weight and size of the parts needed to make it work properly. The bellcranks themselves were massive to allow for proper leverage ratios.
It was sweet though, having the shocks mounted between the framerails, just not practical...yet.

What happens is you can get away with shocks with a shorter stroke and lighter springweight because the leverage ratios are dictated by the bellcrank and the position the pushrod and shock mount are in relation to the pivot point.

Rising rate linkages have also been tried with limited success, but most of these systems have been attempted in the aftermarket area.

[Guy400]

The future is in the transverse leaf spring:D