Union, or non-union?

[Woodsrider]

Just curious where everyone stands on organized labor. I recently went back to work for a large company that builds commercial airplanes. Three weeks after I returned to work the union went out on strike.

[Warnerade]

wish i would get paid 30 bucks an hour to work half as hard

[Bill Fuller]

Unions suck

[armoks]

Unions built this country to what it is today! Thank a Union guy for the 8 hour workday, 1 hour lunch, and your kids not working in a steel or textile mill or coal mine.

There are those who abuse the power of the unions and that why unions get such a bad rep:mad:

I personaly am proud to be part of a union and glad my grandfather and great-grandfather broke thier backs getting the big corperations to treat thier workers right:macho

[Warnerade]

1 hour lunch? 8 hour day?

what the hell....i only get 30 minutes for a 10 hour day:ermm:

[figair]

Im w/ya armoks union construction trade here:macho Butt,I think they can be bad and they could be good.wages are good but you know they are all for themselves our pres decided last yaer to give himself a 100% raise,yep 100% raise They take 5 give you 1 but I cant complain..I likes it

[LTandRaptorider]

I was in the Steel Workers union for many years... I absolutely hated my local and it's corrupt president. Only good thing I can say about him now is he's dead... I spent a couple years in the Utility Workers union, it seemed to be pretty good. Like anything else, it depends on the leadership. Unions definitely have their good points... but unfortunately a good share of bad points.

[Woodsrider]

Interesting to see some with the same view as me. I have worked both as a union member in the aviation industry, and as a non-union auto mechanic.
The unions are to thank for the 40 hour week and safe working conditions. They are the ones who kept corperations form doing to the american workers what is happening in 3rd world factories.
But now there are laws that protect the american worker, the rights won by the unions 70 years ago are now a workers rights under law.
I felt more secure at my non union job than I do at my union job, but this one pays A LOT better and has much better medical beifits.

[INFANTRY RACING]

IUOE Local 150 and couldn't be happier.

[400exrules]

wuts the difference, my neighbors a union electrician, and my other neighbor is a non-union. My dad explained it all to me but i forgot, could someone gimme a quick break down on what union and nonunion are

[Warnerade]

union=lazy guys that do less work for more money

non union=hard workers who work more hours to make less money

[figair]

Nacs racer i think your *** leaks.....lol (jk) true to a point..if ya dont work hard (construction union)you are not gonna work year round youll be the first to sit in the soup line collecting.ive been n the trades for for 11years havent sat a day unless i asked for it.Now i own a small shop and i see whos sittin around or who is producing.So in the winter slow months you know whos sittin....:D

[400exrules]

how come union makes more money? Isnt one of them always guranteed work, and the other isnt..?

[figair]

To a point for us its work hard you should stay working..Also dont forget its who ya know also..:D

[Warnerade]

not sure on the reason for the wage difference...

places like Jeep, Ford, GM...the assembly lines that build the cars...those are all union, atleast around here...

wal-mart sucks!

[derekhonda]

unions bankrupted my grandfather

NON UNION

[hardkoratvmxr]

Originally posted by armoks
Unions built this country to what it is today! Thank a Union guy for the 8 hour workday, 1 hour lunch, and your kids not working in a steel or textile mill or coal mine.

My whole family besides my dad works in the plumbers pipefitters union. and they love it and besides you cant get much better work for 35+ dollars an hour

[89'350RX]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
union=lazy guys that do less work for more money

non union=hard workers who work more hours to make less money


I agree

[trick450r]

i cant really form an opinion yet as im only 16...but i'll never forget the day i went to work with my dad and he was telling me about this union plumber they had...anyway the first words he asked my dad when he walked in to check progress on the house were "is it 80 degrees or 1:00 yet?" my dads like "why?" and hes like "cuz if its one or the other im outa here"

[Guy400]

Unions did serve a vital role in our history but I believe their usefullness has passed. I'm sorry but the salaries they demand are beyond what the job is worth. The UAW pays a broom-pusher $25/hour to sweep the floors. Come on, really, is a floor sweeper worth $25/hour? Of course it's not yet you wonder why more and more companies are finding cheaper labor overseas. On top of that, is union labor magically better than non-union? No. People are good at their trade no matter who/what they work for.

[figair]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Guy400
Unions did serve a vital role in our history but I believe their usefullness has passed. I'm sorry but the salaries they demand are beyond what the job is worth. The UAW pays a broom-pusher $25/hour to sweep the floors. Come on, really, is a floor sweeper worth $25/hour? Of course it's not yet you wonder why more and more companies are finding cheaper labor overseas. On top of that, is union labor magically better than non-union? No. People are good at their trade no matter who/what they work for. [/QUOTE

I wouldnt say all people are good at thre trade..you have pple come from all over the world give him a hammer and he thinks he is a carpnter etc..We do serve an apprenticeship for a reason,for the trade to be done correctly.But I do believe the vital role in our history usefullness has passed.Things sure are alot diffrent now and it will only get worse only my 2 cents...:D

[crday98]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
union=lazy guys that do less work for more money

non union=hard workers who work more hours to make less money i think you need to educate yourself before you speak!
i work for a very large company. the union has been trying to get in the last 10 years. i was always against it until a year ago when we voted it in. since the place i work for was sold and run under a different name, the company has done nothing but fire people who were good workers and keep people that did absolutely nothing all to reduce the work force thinking it would save the company millions. they were wrong!
they have raised our medical by more than double. we have stopped getting a cost of living raise for the last few years. they took two of the three personal days that we got per year and didn't allow us ANY sick time. basically you could only get sick,have something happen to one of your kids or something else at home one day a year. your work load doubled due to picking up the tasks of those they got rid of to save money yet you did not get even a penny more an hour for compensation of doing a two man job. they also forced us to go to 12 hour shifts.
i could go on and on with things the company took from us and negative things they have done over the past few years, yet there is not one positive thing the company has done for us.

as for money, it just goes to show how clueless most of you kids really are. just because you are union doesn't mean that you make more money. BS! we are only looking to get the average of 3% for the cost of living just like we have for the last 25 years the place has been in operation. the actual cost of living this year over last is actually much higher than the 3% due to the price of gas.
the major hitter we are seeking is that the company apply the same rules for everyone. prior to the union, they have just made up the rules as they went along to benefit the company. for instance, if a person higher up would "intentionally" break a safety rule, he would just get a slap on the wrist. if a regular worker "accidentally" broke the same very rule, he would be fired on the spot!

time for a union? you bet your arse i signed a card and have no regrets! i guess that makes me a lazy POS?
know what the "F" you are talking about before you decide to open your mouth!:rolleyes: i love when stupid kids act like they know it all.;)

[figair]

^^^^^Do You understand now...Gotta love these rookies..lol

[derekhonda]

Originally posted by Guy400
Unions did serve a vital role in our history but I believe their usefullness has passed. I'm sorry but the salaries they demand are beyond what the job is worth. The UAW pays a broom-pusher $25/hour to sweep the floors. Come on, really, is a floor sweeper worth $25/hour? Of course it's not yet you wonder why more and more companies are finding cheaper labor overseas. On top of that, is union labor magically better than non-union? No. People are good at their trade no matter who/what they work for.

Yup, i know a 65 year old plumber who still works 40+ hours a week non-union to survive, and i know a 30 year old union plumber who plays golf with my dad all day thursday and plays high stakes poker and has a house in florida he vacations to many times a year.

Not that either plumber is better than the other...but honestly, who should be playing golf on thursdays, the 65 year old, or the 30 year old?

[Pappy]

i think in certain professions unions can be needed, however in others they kill the american companies ability to be competitive in a world market economy.


for those giving the unions credit for all the regular american worker's benefits, do you honestly think that is true? unions are a very very small portion of the workplace in this country and are getting smaller by the day. using your logic, as the unions get smaller and the stick they used to carry turns into a switch, shouldnt the "benefits" start being reversed? (sorry, being devils advocate here)

i have friend in and out of unions. there are advantages and disadvantages in everything.

[crday98]

Originally posted by figair
^^^^^Do You understand now...Gotta love these rookies..lol what really cracks me up is that he isn't even old enough to have spent any time in the "real" world working a "real job" yet he acts like he knows everything about it.:D

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by crday98
i think you need to educate yourself before you speak!
i work for a very large company. the union has been trying to get in the last 10 years. i was always against it until a year ago when we voted it in. since the place i work for was sold and run under a different name, the company has done nothing but fire people who were good workers and keep people that did absolutely nothing all to reduce the work force thinking it would save the company millions. they were wrong!
they have raised our medical by more than double. we have stopped getting a cost of living raise for the last few years. they took two of the three personal days that we got per year and didn't allow us ANY sick time. basically you could only get sick,have something happen to one of your kids or something else at home one day a year. your work load doubled due to picking up the tasks of those they got rid of to save money yet you did not get even a penny more an hour for compensation of doing a two man job. they also forced us to go to 12 hour shifts.
i could go on and on with things the company took from us and negative things they have done over the past few years, yet there is not one positive thing the company has done for us.

as for money, it just goes to show how clueless most of you kids really are. just because you are union doesn't mean that you make more money. BS! we are only looking to get the average of 3% for the cost of living just like we have for the last 25 years the place has been in operation. the actual cost of living this year over last is actually much higher than the 3% due to the price of gas.
the major hitter we are seeking is that the company apply the same rules for everyone. prior to the union, they have just made up the rules as they went along to benefit the company. for instance, if a person higher up would "intentionally" break a safety rule, he would just get a slap on the wrist. if a regular worker "accidentally" broke the same very rule, he would be fired on the spot!

time for a union? you bet your arse i signed a card and have no regrets! i guess that makes me a lazy POS?
know what the "F" you are talking about before you decide to open your mouth!:rolleyes: i love when stupid kids act like they know it all.;) you clearly dont know how i am...

i was telling 400exrules the STEREO TYPE of the whole thing...

and i dont think anyone should have raised income just due to higher gas prices....If everyone got higher income, wouldnt the price of the goods eventualy raise to catch up to the loss of money a company has taken since they raised the income...then in turn, at the end of the month, you still have the same, if not less money to play around with.

If you are having problems with paying for gas right now....work an extra 30 minutes of over time each day, that should offset the gas price, or find a hobby to do on the side that you can make a little money at...Seems like everyone these days has a problem with going the extra mile

If that place got that bad...then in my opinion, your an idiot for staying there (didnt mean that as a personal attack)...but why not go find a new job? you were looking for a job when you applied there, shouldnt have a problem finding a new one.

*edit*
and as for me not knowing what a "real job" is...i've been puttin in 40 hour weeks every summer since i was 10-11....

last year i got a job at a machine shop working for just over minimun wage...they work 56-60 hour weeks, on one shift. I threw away my spring break, I threw away my winter break, to put in 56 hour weeks..and you know where that check went...straight to my dad becuase i owed him.

This summer as soon as i got my cast off, i went back to work for the place, making the same money, working 10 hour days, standing the entire time on a cracked ankle that still isnt fully healed.

I know i dont know what the "real world" is like...but i guarantee i have a much better veiw on it than 90% of the people my age who spent their summers partying.

[400exrules]

i dont wanna sound like an idiot or a jerk...but why do people complain about people that work for a union because union is so much easier and they get paid better. why dont you work for a union yourself if its that much better? It seems like union would be better then nonunion, yet people are still chosing nonunion.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
union=lazy guys that do less work for more money

non union=hard workers who work more hours to make less money

non-union - dumb workers who work harder than they have to

union- smart people who didnt see a reason to work more for less..

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by Ralph
non-union - dumb workers who work harder than they have to

union- smart people who didnt see a reason to work more for less.. i beleive you should be worrying about your totaled mercedez rather than a union thread:o

[MOFO]

Originally posted by 400exrules
i dont wanna sound like an idiot or a jerk...but why do people complain about people that work for a union because union is so much easier and they get paid better. why dont you work for a union yourself if its that much better? It seems like union would be better then nonunion, yet people are still chosing nonunion.


its one of the main reasons our products are not competitive over seas...

I'm sorry, but $35/hr for a plumber... that in itself should throw a red flag... no offense to anyone that fits the catagory... but thats just insane.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
i beleive you should be worrying about your totaled mercedez rather than a union thread:o

i was hoping a blazing internet argument would get my mind off of it. Besides i cant do anything else till tommorow.

[Woodsrider]

Originally posted by Pappy
for those giving the unions credit for all the regular american worker's benefits, do you honestly think that is true? unions are a very very small portion of the workplace in this country and are getting smaller by the day. using your logic, as the unions get smaller and the stick they used to carry turns into a switch, shouldnt the "benefits" start being reversed? (sorry, being devils advocate here)

I dont think anyone is giving todays unions credit( but I may have missed it). But the unions were a pivotol role seventy plus years ago. Your are right the unions place in todays work force is shrinking, for a multitude of reasons. and the blame can be placed on more than just the unions shoulders.


I'm sorry, but $35/hr for a plumber... that in itself should throw a red flag... no offense to anyone that fits the catagory... but thats just insane.
Now as for the plumbers getting $35 an hour. You do realize that that is his whole compensation package right? Not just his hourly wage. My neighbor is a union pipe fitter, he is paid $32.50 an hour. Out of that $3.50 an hour goes into his union funded pension, then a couple bucks comes out for his union funded medical benifits. To make it short, by the time he gets all of his benifits deducted from his union wage, he is making anly about a $1.50 more than a non union fitter, working for a non union company that privides benifits. The difference is his pension fund is a great deal better than what the non union companies can offer. An he can go any where in the country and get a job just by going into the local hall and showing his card.

I have a lot more to add, but I gotta go. My son has a meeting with Kasey Kahne. I'll be back.

[figair]

woods rider you were reading my mind,but you beat me to it..:D

[crday98]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
you clearly dont know how i am...

i was telling 400exrules the STEREO TYPE of the whole thing...

and i dont think anyone should have raised income just due to higher gas prices....If everyone got higher income, wouldnt the price of the goods eventually raise to catch up to the loss of money a company has taken since they raised the income...then in turn, at the end of the month, you still have the same, if not less money to play around with.

If you are having problems with paying for gas right now....work an extra 30 minutes of over time each day, that should offset the gas price, or find a hobby to do on the side that you can make a little money at...Seems like everyone these days has a problem with going the extra mile

If that place got that bad...then in my opinion, your an idiot for staying there (didnt mean that as a personal attack)...but why not go find a new job? you were looking for a job when you applied there, shouldnt have a problem finding a new one.

1. i didn't say anyone should raise income just because the increase in the price of gas. i said we have not received a cost of living raise for 3 years. FYI the cost of living goes up an average of 3% annually. most people in the work force receive a raise in their salary every year to compensate for the increase in the cost of living. i just brought up the fact that we have not gotten any raise let alone the average of 3% proving we are not all about money like as if we expected to be overpaid.i brought up gas because that is part of the cost of living. if you calculate that in, it comes well above the 3% we are asking for.

2. working an extra 30 minutes is not an option. we work 12 hour shifts and are not allowed to exceed the 12 hours in one day. other than that, when i return home from work i pick up my son,feed him,clean up the mess he makes them put him to bed. by that time, it is 9:00 which gives me little time to eat and shower before bed because i have to wake up at 4am the next day. so the option of picking up a hobby to make a little extra is out and the time isn't there to go the extra mile.;) on my days off, i spend them by fixing up my house, grocery shopping, and spending time with my two other kids that i only get to see 2 days per week. this explains how you( a teenager with little to no responsibilities) has no clue about "the real world"

do you still live with your parents? i thought so! do you have a $450 a month mortgage to pay for or do you just throw your parents a couple of bucks at the end of the week? i'm sure you're paying for all of the utilities as well? do you pay property taxes?
i doubt it! i'm sure you major bills are a car payment and car insurance. i'll even bet you are on mommy and daddy's insurance policy so you don't have to pay as much as someone that is out on their own? i could go on but i think you get the point.

3. i can be called an idiot for staying there but unlike someone with no responsibilities, i have a family to support so i can't just pick up and get another job. even if i could, there is nothing in my area that pays what i make. i built my life around a salary from a job that i've been at for the past twelve years. so i have two choices, i could continue to work where i've been where the union is making it like it used to be or i can leave and struggle to provide for my family. which one would you choose?
at a young age, you can easily pick up and go from job to job until you find something that suits you. when you have kids and real bills to pay,you will get a taste of what the real world is like and you'll have a different attitude. up until a few years ago, my job was great. that is why i stayed there. if i walked into it and things were like they've been recently, i would have left in a heartbeat but back then i didn't have the responsibilities i do now.
;)

[Warnerade]

ya i still live at home, i dont even see a point in asking that....and i plan on staying here until im 20. and no...i dont have any bills, i dont throw my parents a couple of bucks at the end of the week, during the school year, my check doesnt even cover what i spend in gas each week. I have a yfz torn down to its frame, waiting to be rebuilt and a list of things that i want and would like to have at this moment, i could have spent my checks this summer on things that i wanted....but i saved them, put the money in the bank, bought what i needed and not what i wanted, and gave my parents a large chunk of money the day before school started this year. I never asked for you to explain the reasons why you cant go the extra mile at work....all you would have had to say was "going the extra mile is not an option", you sound like a family man...always taking care of your kids, and i respect the hell out of that...becuase when i was growing up, it seemed like my dad would rather spend time at his business and work then home with us.

[Pappy]

My friend Joey is a union steamfitter. i honestly dont know exactly what he makes salary wise, but he is staying put. they pay him to attend school for this particuliar trade and is bumped in pay accordingly.

Like i stated, some trades unions ensure quality and trained...not to mention reliable service personel.


Other friends bailed on the unions when corruption and power plays cost the workers jobs and money. Its a shame that type of stuff still goes on, in any proffesion union or not.

when i was working in a particuliar position, there was talk of unionizing the workers so that we all got the same and fair treatment. after several highly attended meetings, it just didnt come about. why? because different areas of the country had different income levels as associated with the cost of living in said area. that is changing rapidly now, as the entire country starts to narrow the gaps that used to exist. i doubt unions will ever have a strong voice in our future, but you can already see who is trying to make the field equal.....thats right, the federal government which is one big union if you ask me...lol

i prefer private ownership of businesses. if i can afford to pay my employees a certain amount then they have to decided if it is enough for them to live on. if not they need to move on. employee owned business work in some cases also, bring alot of pride and company respect back to the workplace.

[crday98]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
ya i still live at home, i dont even see a point in asking that....and i plan on staying here until im 20. and no...i dont have any bills, i dont throw my parents a couple of bucks at the end of the week, during the school year, my check doesnt even cover what i spend in gas each week. I have a yfz torn down to its frame, waiting to be rebuilt and a list of things that i want and would like to have at this moment, i could have spent my checks this summer on things that i wanted....but i saved them, put the money in the bank, bought what i needed and not what i wanted, and gave my parents a large chunk of money the day before school started this year. I never asked for you to explain the reasons why you cant go the extra mile at work....all you would have had to say was "going the extra mile is not an option", you sound like a family man...always taking care of your kids, and i respect the hell out of that...becuase when i was growing up, it seemed like my dad would rather spend time at his business and work then home with us. i was just giving you a reality check. in your earlier posts, you made it sound like you had it all figured out and there was a simple solution to every problem. basically you said unions are only for lazy people and there is no other need for them.;)

[Tommy 17]

i can't complain about unions... the unions really took care of my dad and family in the mines... sent my mom to college for free and alot of other things...


i personally believe some unions are bad and some are good... but i personally have never been in one myself (to young)

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by crday98
i was just giving you a reality check. in your earlier posts, you made it sound like you had it all figured out and there was a simple solution to every problem. basically you said unions are only for lazy people and there is no other need for them.;) hell no i dont have it all figured out...i was just stating the stereo type of the whole thing.

i didnt need a reality check, i know im spoiled...but i do what i can to give back to my parents.

[jonc623]

iuoe local 841 and proud

[86350x]

I work in a non-union shop. Depends on the situation. I don't think the union would help much where I work. And it would cost me like what is it? 10 bucks a week or something like that to be in it.

My brother likes his union, he works in a automotive stamping facility. Who knows anymore:confused:

One thing I do know is that this is always a touchy subject.

[BuB400]

If you think $35 an hour is to much for a plumber, what do you think the head of FEMA makes? Hes proved he cant handle his job. The nurses in our area want a raise and cant get one. But at the same time the head of Aurora medical makes 3 millon a year and gets 1 millon a year in his pension. So tell me about over paid workers that make stuff happen in and throughout the company. I've worked for both union and non-union companies. Both had their pros and cons but I would rather be union.

[figair]

isnt that a joke that women from Red Cross(pres) whatevershe is gave herself a 40% raise.she somewhere in the 250,000-300,000 mark..Your money that you donate to help someone that needs it..Its a fricken Joke.

[stanrich]

carpenters local 200. work union live better

[Giz400ex]

Originally posted by LTandRaptorider
Like anything else, it depends on the leadership. Unions definitely have their good points... but unfortunately a good share of bad points.
Yep!!!!

[Woodsrider]

This was printed in the local paper yesterday. It seems to fit in this discussion, I think.
“Workers are the reason we enjoy quality of life we do.

Everything you own, eat, and wear, and the place where you live, could not exist without the efforts of labor. All the material things in this world are a testimony to laborers.

Yet workers are under attack as never before with the loss of good-paying jobs, benefits, retirements and workplace rights to protect from abuses by management. We are the keepers of the past, the builders of the present and the promise of tomorrow. The rich and powerful live off us, not the other way around.

Labor Day is a time to thank labor for its efforts to make this a better world.”

[red2004 TRX450R]

as an employee I would like the unions!
as an employer I would hate the unions!

I wish i was in the union and not at my current job!

:D

[XxxTRiPxxX]

542 south jersey carpenter and proud

[CHAR250R]

I used to be a union member where I work, until I had the chance to take a salary position. When I was a union member, I didn't have to do much labor during an 8 hour shift. I was told to "slow down, you're making other people look bad" The position I have now is much better. It's a salary position with hourly overtime. That means I get paid for any extra time I work. The more O.T. I work, and the harder I work determines my raises. My raises I get now are far better than the ones I got while I was union.

[Honda5]

Teamsters local 355 Think of it this way "How safe is your job?" when they have cutbacks they don't look at me!!!

[T.Hopp]

My 2 cents worth. Better yet, I am a union worker so I can give you 4 cents with another point of view. To add to the differences between Union and Nonunion think of this. When a customer needs a job done, they normally get estimates from many contractors (a bid list will be formed). The customer then needs to decide what contractor to use. Price is a big factor here for a customer. The smart customer, knowing the competition between union and nonunion, will usually have contractors from both sides bid on the job to keep estimates low. Union dosn't want to loose out to nonunion and vice-versa. They each submit their competitive price, keeping in mind that the customer makes the final decision.(usually the cheapest price)

Now, say the NONunion contractor is granted the job. The job is done and the employees are paid their agreed wage (claimed to be lower and more work for the individual). The employees just helped their contractor make lots and lots of money for accepting a lower pay.(your decision)
Now say the union contractor is granted the job. The job is done with the employees getting thier agreed wage. Their employer didn't make the money like the nonunion contractor. The union contractor pays their employees a higher wage. (more overhead)

The union contractor will never make as much money as the nonunion contractor per job because they pay their employees a higher wage.The union contractor is willing to make less for himself.
If you want to bust your ***** so your employer can pay you less and keep more for himself than work NONUNION!

Ching..ching..ching...ching....my four cents hitting the table compliments of Local 24, Baltimore.

[400exrules]

so basically (not trying to offend anyone) mexicans are nonunion and smart people are union?

[Warnerade]

dont ever call me a mexican.

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
dont ever call me a mexican. ill pay you 3 tacos per hour of work :blah:

[LTandRaptorider]

Originally posted by MixMasterMike
ill pay you 3 tacos per hour of work :blah:

Good one jumbo! :D

But watch he doesn't try to grab your burrito for extra payment! :eek:

Arriba arriba! :blah:

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by LTandRaptorider
Good one jumbo! :D

But watch he doesn't try to grab your burrito for extra payment! :eek:

Arriba arriba! :blah: lmgdfao, thats twice tonite you've gotten me....

you'll get yours one day old man!

[LTandRaptorider]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
lmgdfao, thats twice tonite you've gotten me....

you'll get yours one day old man!

I know... :D

back to the thread topic... the votes are all very close!

Reagan dealt a serious blow to unions in the 80's with the Air Traffic Controller strike... Dam Republicans! Wait a minute... I'm Republican! :p Long live the second amendment... ;)

[INFANTRY RACING]

Originally posted by jonc623
iuoe local 841 and proud


Operating engineers are the best. Get paid great to play with oversized tonka toys.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by crday98
time for a union? you bet your arse i signed a card and have no regrets! i guess that makes me a lazy POS?
know what the "F" you are talking about before you decide to open your mouth!:rolleyes: i love when stupid kids act like they know it all.;)

Are you kidding me?

A new company steps in, starts changing things, and now you guys feel it is time to form a union to get back to the way things were.

Did you ever stop to think, maybe the reason the company was sold in the first place is because they were floundering, they weren't making any money (perhaps because labor was too high). New management steps in to make some changes, maybe to make the company profitable again?

[duke416ex]

Or maybe you could thnk of it as the company was doing fine on its on and growing a little at a time when a larger corporation noticed it and offered the owned a big amount for it just so they wouldn't have the competition. Just because a company get bought out doesn't mean that it was struggling to stay afloat.

[wilkin250r]

True, but if it was so great and profitable, why make changes? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

However, the fact that they ARE making drastic changes leads me to believe that things weren't all peaches and cream to start with.

[duke416ex]

I have just seen several local companies grow and profit and then get bought by a larger compnay like I mentioned. It always seems that no matter how good they are running whoever buys them out thinks they can improve things and make it more profitable, the thing they usually over look is how they treat their employees. Often times for this reason they loose a lot of what made the company good in the first place, like good work enviroment, quality of products, etc.

[crday98]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Are you kidding me?

A new company steps in, starts changing things, and now you guys feel it is time to form a union to get back to the way things were.

Did you ever stop to think, maybe the reason the company was sold in the first place is because they were floundering, they weren't making any money (perhaps because labor was too high). New management steps in to make some changes, maybe to make the company profitable again?
1. it wasn't since the new company took over that people have decided a union was needed. as i stated, they have been trying to get in the past 10 years constantly. they also tried a few times in the early to mid eighties. everyone has now reached their boiling point and voted it in. what were issues with some people who wanted a union back then, weren't any issues that bothered me and others. some of us actually believed in the company and gave it a chance only to get slapped in the face when it became obvious that we got lied to.
2. don't try to step in and act like you have a clue what goes on where i work with your childish "are you kidding me" attitude! the reason the company was sold was because it was privately owned and shared between three men. two of them died due to old age. the last guy standing was getting up there in age himself and decided it was time to move on and enjoy the rest of his life. on top of the money he made there in 20 years, he also got a healthy 550 million dollars when he sold the place. certainly a healthy penny for a place that you assume wasn't making any money.
the company that took over used to own the place until 1979 when the doors closed because they didn't know how to make it profitable. when they bought it back, they held a big meeting with the 2800 employees stating that there was nothing to worry about and no changes were going to take place. they admitted that they could have never made it profitable like we did and they aren't going to fix something that isn't broke. that only lasted a year. now they have/had it all screwed up and now, years later, they realized they were wrong again. they kept trying a hundred different methods to run the place only to realize that the "old/our" way is better. now they are starting to get back to the basics and run the place like we've been before they stepped in.
to give you an idea on their logic of thinking, they would pay 5 people 70K a year to solve a problem that would save the company only 20K per year.
3. labor was never an issue while it was under the private ownership.;)

[crday98]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
True, but if it was so great and profitable, why make changes? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

However, the fact that they ARE making drastic changes leads me to believe that things weren't all peaches and cream to start with. funny you should say that because that is what we were told when the new owners came in."we're not going to fix something that isn't broke". the reason they made drastic changes is because they thought they could make even more money only to realise that they were making less money after all of the changes. see above post for more.;)

[crday98]

Originally posted by duke416ex
I have just seen several local companies grow and profit and then get bought by a larger compnay like I mentioned. It always seems that no matter how good they are running whoever buys them out thinks they can improve things and make it more profitable, the thing they usually over look is how they treat their employees. Often times for this reason they loose a lot of what made the company good in the first place, like good work enviroment, quality of products, etc. you just hit the nail on the head. that is exactally what i have been experiencing. you couldn't have worded it better.:ermm:

[Woodsrider]

There seems to be a lot of "labor is too high because of unions" comments on here. Let me throw this out there to chew on; At Boeing the machinist union's labor(those of us that actually build the planes) is 3%, thats right 3% of the total cost of each plane built. I know, your all going to say that number is propaganda put out by the union, right? Wrong thats Boeing's own figure, not the unions. So where is the rest of the cost of that airplane coming from? And if the labor is only costing %3 why cant they afford to take better care of the workforce?
Well, maybe its because they pay the top executives millions of dollars every year. Or maybe its becuase they have to pay so many fines to the federal government for trade violations? But then again, it could be that they are paying the executives that they FIRED for schlepping the help, and ripping off the federal government, multi-million dollar compensation packages?

Now, here is why the union went on strike. For the last four years the union has been working hand-in-hand with the company to incorporate "lean manufacturing". In that short four years, they have cut waste by 41%. Shaved 6 months of the time it takes to build and deliver an airplane. And reduced factory floor space by31%, which inturn reduced the use and occupancy taxes the company has to pay.
All of this makes the planes we build more appealing to the customer than the only competitor, Airbus. Which has lead to more orders YTD than Airbus(for the first time in 5 years), and a stock price that,until Friday, was higher than it had been since the merger of Boeing and McDonald Douglas.
So the union worked hard to save jobs and increase profitability for the company, and they offer us a contract loaded with higher medical costs(up to 180% on some plans), reduced pension benifits for current retirees, no wage increases, reduced COLA, and No retiree medical for new hires next year. Pay cuts for some job classes and No language to prevent more of the jobs from being shipped overseas to China.

Just how many jobs can we send overseas, before the economy collapses? Once everything is built overseas, where is every one going to work to buy the goods we import? And what will we export back?

[89'350RX]

I was raised to be as strong a worker as I could and that people would see what kind of a worker I was and that I would be rewarded for my efforts. That philosophy has never let me down. I started at the bottom and worked my way to the top.

A lot of todays smaller contractors are EX union guys that broke out of the union and started their own non union company. They knew what it took to get the work and by not being in the union made it that much better. I know quite a few that hated to give up their pension but after leaving and starting their own, they have more money in their retirement than the union would ever provide.

The union takes the pension money and uses it so corruptly it makes one sick. A true retirement fund is a fund that the individual has control over and makes his/her own choices. Plus a true retirement fund is money that belongs to the person EVEN when they pass on.

To each his own!. I personally would rather be the friend of the manager/owner than the union BA.

[hon400ex]

I have been in the carpenters union for 18 years. I'm not sure how some of the other unions work(UAW,teamsters,ect.) but the building trades unions offer training for their members. We serve an apprenticeship and learn our trade. Then I go out and do carpenter work and only carpenter work. I don't mess around doing something I'm not trained to do. We were on a job last year where we were the only organized trade. The same guy who was doing electrical work yesterday was doing plumbers work today and tomorrow he might be doing air conditioning. I have never seen such poor quality work. If you work around this stuff every day you can see a huge difference in job quality. We may make more but we sell quality. Also, in my experiences, the non-union workers are not safe at all. We have to be tied off anywhere above 6 feet and they seem to do anything they want.Nobody enforces safety rules on them because their employers don't care or just want to make more money and being safe definetly takes more time.
Last point, I read on this site all the time about how everyone is sick of illegal immigrants and how you have to speak spanish to order in McDonalds and things of that nature.I have never in 18 years seen a worker on a union job that I thought was illega. However, just look around at the housing industry(non-union)
and most of the roofing and I would guess that 30% or more don't have green cards.

Sorry for the long post
Andy

[tw1976]

IUOE Local 150......United we bargin/divided we beg