were we duped?

[Pappy]

I really dont know if im a conservative or watever catagory i would fall under. im really not all that political. anyway, i am flipping channels and it seemed to me that some stations were reporting all negativity. even when something positive was happening, they found the bad in it. other channels were concentrating on the positive with some doom and gloom for drama. have we become so petty as human beings that we will selectively report to further an agenda over fact based reporting? i know, it could still be called fact based, but you get the idea.

noone said it, and i am a bush supporter, but it sure seemes funny that no big pushes into the city of new orleans took place until bush hit the ground. im not a conspricy nut either, infact this is just a thought in my head. but is it possible that it was somehow coordinated to show bush as a man of action? heck, i dont even know if something like that is even possible to make happen. it just seemed perculiar.

i also know that an arguement could be said that bush is a leader and he made things jump. sorry, leader or not he doesnt call the shots in an event such as this on the ground level so i know this isnt logical.

and reports of paramedics refusing to enter the city, the same with police. reports of police abandoning thier posts inside the city due to fear. i have a background in some of that and i have never seen anyone run from an incident unless it was immediatley life threatening, not just a possibility. more times then nought, we were running the oppisite direction of thoise fleeing. could it be true? i would like to think this is more of the medias selection of facts.

i hope this thread doesnt turn into a bush bashing thread, or bash anything really. i am just sick watching the people we call leaders devote so much time and energy complaining and pointing fingers.

are you confused? because i have a feeling that is exactly how the media wants you

;)

[MOFO]

I'm right there with you actually. My wife and I watched Fox News last night and were a bit confused. What took so long to respond with the proper forces? Why were we not prepared for something like this? (I think that question can be answered by the "state govt").


Your also right, there are alot of positive things being done, but then you see a reporter screaming at the camera saying its been 5+ days and these people still have no water or food - let alone be rescued.

I honestly think it was a problem with local & state gov't not having any type of plans if this were to happen. I mean, come on... everyone is saying it was not a matter of "if" but "when" this was going to happen. I cant take the blame off of the federal gov't either. Obviously there were problems with their response as well.

[FoxRacing81]

Yup. That's the media for you. Imagine if Kerry would have been president. They would have talked like "It only took Kerry 5 days to get here! He is such a great president."

I don't really understand why people hate Bush. I guess it's because they all have been brain-washed by the regular tv news media.

[Guy400]

I think the problem with any disaster of this magnitude is that we've never seen it before. It's not like there's a "In case of New Orleans going underwater because of the worst hurricane in 200 years" handbook that's handed down to every federal, state and local official.

Maybe this strikes a particular chord with me because I'm a Resource Manager. We've only got limited resources so simply throwing the National Guard into the affected areas would be a waste. You don't want to hastily throw food and water into an area because that's where the dart hit the map on the wall. You need to assess the situation, find where the most need is and then mobilize. People would say their leadship is incompetent if they immediately sent food to an area where there's already somewhat of a supply but 25 miles away is a place that's totally without.

Not only that but I think we can't truly fathom the chaos that's down there. Imagine if any one of us went to bed one night and we woke up and our whole neighborhood had been destroyed and it's underwater. Your only supplies were a gallon of water, a small rowboat and a balloon with a camera on it. What would you do first? Would you just jump in the boat and start rowing in any direction and then hand the water to the first person you see? I don't think so. The prudent person would fly the balloon, assess the situation and then help those most in need first rationing your supplies. This might cost you an extra day but in the long run you'll make the most of what you got and maximize the survivability of all involved.

I just hate to see this whole thing politicized by either side. Right now it seems moreso by the liberals. Anything they can do to call Bush a moron is what they do regardless of the circumstances. I wish we'd all work together to pull through this and when some semblence of normalcy is back then the government convenes to look at what happened without pointing fingers and then initiate a plan to potentially avoid it in the future.

<stepping off soap box>

and reports of paramedics refusing to enter the city, the same with police. reports of police abandoning thier posts inside the city due to fear. i have a background in some of that and i have never seen anyone run from an incident unless it was immediatley life threatening, not just a possibility. more times then nought, we were running the oppisite direction of thoise fleeing. could it be true? i would like to think this is more of the medias selection of facts.


ya because the cops and paramedics have worked non stop since the beggining and are getting no break, and they themselves have lost everything, they are extremly exhuasted and just gave up..

theres your reasoning behind that.

Jesse

[reddeisel]

--liberal media--:mad:

[bayou boy]

did any of yall hear the press conference by Ray Nagin (mayor) on thursday nite? he basicly went off in a major way.... that seemed to grab alot of attention in the media.

[honda350r]

How many days notice do we need to get ready for the 4th largest storm to hit the US? Not only did it hit the US but it hit a city under sea level!

Bush says , How were we supposed to know the levy would break .. HUH ???

Bottom line is ... LEADERSHIP FROM ALL LEVELS HAS FAILED IN THIS COUNTRY !!

Originally posted by honda350r
How many days notice do we need to get ready for the 4th largest storm to hit the US? Not only did it hit the US but it hit a city under sea level!

Bush says , How were we supposed to know the levy would break .. HUH ???

Bottom line is ... LEADERSHIP FROM ALL LEVELS HAS FAILED IN THIS COUNTRY !!

umm.. before you start spoutin, make sure your information is accurate.. they were complaining about the levy's for years.. the gov wouldnt do anything about it.. THATS how we knew the levy would break.

Jesse

[EvilJester400EX]

By all means, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Bush take away from the New Orleans levy money for the war on terror? Again, correct me if I'm wrong or mods, delete if you feel it will cause bashing.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by EvilJester400EX
By all means, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Bush take away from the New Orleans levy money for the war on terror? Again, correct me if I'm wrong or mods, delete if you feel it will cause bashing.




OH VERY WRONG.

Actually when President Clinton was in office, he personally DENIED funds to rebuild the levy's. Its on public record...anyone that doubts this can spend the time to look it up.

I did not want to go there, but the facts need to be cleared up here.

[Guy400]

Originally posted by EvilJester400EX
By all means, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't Bush take away from the New Orleans levy money for the war on terror? Again, correct me if I'm wrong or mods, delete if you feel it will cause bashing. Money was taken away from the New Orleans levy at all levels of government. The first request of the federal government to provide money for levy improvements was to Bill Clinton in 1998 and he turned it down. But, the levy failure was not from a lack of funding. The fact is the levy failed at the spot where the Army Corp of Engineers just updated it and was supposed to be stronger than all other points. Ironically, the spot where all the money and work was put into was where it broke. The head of the ACE was just on an interview and he said this levy failure was not from inadequate funding from anyone.

[EvilJester400EX]

My bad, thanks for correcting! :) If you want me to delete it's no problem.

[MOFO]

Originally posted by EvilJester400EX
My bad, thanks for correcting! :) If you want me to delete it's no problem.


Why, it does not need deleted. Absolutely nothing wrong with your post I see it more of a question than anything else.

[EvilJester400EX]

Same here, but you know, tons of people start up with the political flame wars.

[popo]

Originally posted by EvilJester400EX
Same here, but you know, tons of people start up with the political flame wars.

Yup! Jesse Jackson has already started by calling Bush a raciast.

[EvilJester400EX]

Doesn't he do that with everyone...? :D

[Pappy]

wow...the thread is still here...lol


im watching Geraldo himself get all worked up and explain to the world how the action being taken today is one of the amazing sights he will never forget and such. quick flip and more negativity.

i geuss to get balance, you have to do what i do everday, listen to both sides and believe 50% of both!

what scares me, and honda350r eluded to it, is that our government is in serious serious trouble. we (not all) have become a society raised by hollywood. we watch disaster movies and see the government come together and destroy whatever happens to be the problem in less then 2 hours. the leadership failed at the state level and it is plain to see. when it is al over, im sure we will have some answers as to who came forward and started correcting the mistakes. and to thier defense, they has 2 days notice the storm went from cat1 to cat5, i can see where a problem or two would arise from that.

i watched a delegate from Michigan say she was appauled and ashamed for america. i hope her constituents remeber her on election day. and yes, the mayor of new orleans is being impacted by stress......welcome to something you werent capable of handling mr. mayor. instead of calling out america, maybe you should have been doing your job along with other state leaders making sure your citizens were prepared for this, because you knew it could happen. i wont blame for the disaster, but i cant help but blame the state and local government for not having this thought out especially when they have been told it COULD happen.

and i was not impressed with bush, biut he is my president and i stand behind him. if i apply the 50/50 rule to him, i come away with shock that once again his administration is tasked with dealing with something of a magnitude noone ever thought we would see.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by EvilJester400EX
Doesn't he do that with everyone...? :D

oh man, do some searching on him and his sons. take a look at i think its budweiser in relationship to them. jesse knows how to find business for his family:chinese:

his form or racism is relatively new, and fuelded by a media who cares more about getting a jab in at the otherside then they do about getting US the facts.

[Bush0102]

Here's my take on the whole situation.

We shouldnt waste time or energy politicizing this whole situation. Bush took a lot of heat for not responding quickly enough, but what was he supposed to do? The president doesn't have the power to just throw money around- he needs congress to approve such a thing. Both houses of the congress were on vacation when the storm hit, and cut it short to create a funding package to help victims. Also, a relief effort of this magnatude can't be instantly implemented- it takes planning to keep things organized and now that the plan has been developed look how much aid is flowing into the region.

On a side note, the people of New Orleans should be ashamed of their mayor. Any publicly elected official that has to have his language censored on the news loses all credibility with me. He comes off as a screaming idiot who can't take the heat because his city was underprepared for such a disaster.

Nobody is to blame for the damage caused by Katrina. It was a natural disaster- and such things are going to happen eventually. Like somebody said earlier- it wasnt a matter of if, but when. It makes me scream to see people like Katie Couric criticizing the president for his lack of effort in this situation. What a waste of airtime! She could easily replace that negativity by telling viewers ways to donate or volunteer their time to storm relief efforts.

Its really sad to me, i thought this might be like 9/11 and bring the country together but those who want to turn a natural catastrophe into a political issue are only tearing it farther apart. Situations like this are the reason that i've distanced myself from politics since the election, i just can't handle so much hostility over stupid stuff. It seems like everything these days is somebody's (usually Bush's) fault. Instead of pointing fingers, why can't we just work together to come up with a solution? We would be so much better off in the long run.

Anyways, i'm just doing what i can. Our business is donating all of our profits from last week (should be about 5300 bucks) and i am giving blood tomorrow. I encourage everybody to help out in some shape or form. My prayers are with those who are affected by this awful event.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Bush0102
Situations like this are the reason that i've distanced myself from politics since the election, i just can't handle so much hostility over stupid stuff. It seems like everything these days is somebody's (usually Bush's) fault. Instead of pointing fingers, why can't we just work together to come up with a solution? We would be so much better off in the long run.


the media i feel actually has been one, if not the leading cause of the division of america.

it doesnt matter what side of the political arena you maybe on, now is deffinatley the time for extending a helping hand and not using it to point fingers if you are in a leadership position.

[zeppelin]

man this has gotten crazy,how could anyone have known that the storm would be so bad, the people in louisiana didn't even have a clue. its just like the other guy said liberal media trying to make bush look bad (probably the sam fnckers who made farenheit 911)

[Atkins]

I agree wth everyone here that says this is not a time for political partisanship! Hundreds, maybe even thousands of people are dying every day, and we are wasting airtime with political spins on the situation. This was a natural disaster and is a time for people to join together and help their fellow man, regardless of what their political views are, this is the right thing to do.

I was watching Fox News all week, because throughout this whole disaster, I feel that they have really provided the most real coverage, not just some guy in a studio telling you whats going on. I also believe Fox News is doing an amazing job of publicizing where people are and whos being ignored. Last night, Geraldo Rivera was at this convention center that had something like 30,000 people and NO ONE had begun to bus them out as of last night. He was in tears and basically screaming at the television set because he didnt see any help in sight for these people. Also on the O'Reilly Factor, they had a phone conversation with a docter in a hospital, where they had just begun putting themselves on IVs to keep themselves hydrated...after the spot on the show, they were soon rescued.

Geraldo was also saying that the people should just start walking along the highway to make it out of the city, as these people where obviously not about to get any help. Soon after, Shephard Smith who was on the highway, said that the national guard set up shop on the bridge, and would not let anyone pass. THEY WERE KEEPING THE PEOPLE JAILED INTO THE CITY!!! Something was definitely wrong with that, as people where dying there because they had recieved no supplies there since the storm hit, but where being jailed into the area and where not allowed to leave. Once again, I believe Shephard Smith, Geraldo Rivera, and Bill O'Reilly did a great job bringing attention to an spot with 30,000 people that had recieved no media attention, food, or water since the storm had begun.

Heres something else that I saw, that completely pissed me off. The mayor of New Orleans set up a temporary office in some high class hotel. There were 200 rich people there from outside of New Orleans. The mayor ORDERED that these people move to the front of the line at the Superdome to be bussed out, ahead of people who are dying from starvation and dehydration WHO HAVE WAITED IN LINE FOR OVER 4 DAYS! This guy needs to be put on trial for crimes against humanity, and put to death.

[honda350r]

Originally posted by zeppelin
man this has gotten crazy,how could anyone have known that the storm would be so bad, the people in louisiana didn't even have a clue.)

That is not a correct statement! We have known for years what would happen if a cat 4 hit Louisiana.. Fact is our leaders did nothing about it and it took three days to respond !!!!!

That is wrong and heads will roll !!

[Atkins]

Heads better roll, or the population of Louisiana that got screwed over and lost family members will roll heads themselves. Im really getting sick of this "better than you" attitude that the responders have had with the citizens of New Orleans, especially the the attitude of the Mayor and Governor.

Basically, they told their citizens to evacuate before the storm hit, BUT PROVIDED NO PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION! The media is doing a good job of portraying people that didnt leave as ignorant and dumb, but I dont think that was the case at all. New Orleans, for the most part, is a city with poor citizens who do not own their own vehicles. How did they expect them to pick up and leave, if there was no form of transportation for them?????

[zeppelin]

there is more to the story of the people waiting in front of the convention center than you know. but before that, why are those people in new orleanse to begin with, there was a manditory evacuatio in that are and buseswere provided to people with out transportation ( no one ever hears about it though because no one used them). okay so now there in the city after the storm and they wanted out, so police told them to go to theconvention center where buses would pick them up. then everyone one was pissed cause they wanted the buses to come to them so they just *****ed and moaned for an hour or two while the buses waited for them at the center. when they finaly decided to leave and go to the center they had to walk on this bridge where they just decided to spend the night. well the buses thought they must have gone to the super dome or that they found other means of leaving the city so thet left. the next day when they finaly got to the center the buses were all gone and the police didnt know that the where left because they had to deal with the damn looters. long story short they screwed them selves

[Pappy]

just think what would happen if a terorist strike would take place now. perfect time, nation fixed on the disaster. things could escalate to uncontrolable proportions.

[Atkins]

Originally posted by zeppelin
there is more to the story of the people waiting in front of the convention center than you know. but before that, why are those people in new orleanse to begin with, there was a manditory evacuatio in that are and buseswere provided to people with out transportation ( no one ever hears about it though because no one used them). okay so now there in the city after the storm and they wanted out, so police told them to go to theconvention center where buses would pick them up. then everyone one was pissed cause they wanted the buses to come to them so they just *****ed and moaned for an hour or two while the buses waited for them at the center. when they finaly decided to leave and go to the center they had to walk on this bridge where they just decided to spend the night. well the buses thought they must have gone to the super dome or that they found other means of leaving the city so thet left. the next day when they finaly got to the center the buses were all gone and the police didnt know that the where left because they had to deal with the damn looters. long story short they screwed them selves

Whats your source of this info? Can you provide a link?

[honda350r]

Originally posted by zeppelin
. long story short they screwed them selves


So they deserve it ? NICE :rolleyes:

[honda350r]

Originally posted by Pappy
just think what would happen if a terorist strike would take place now. perfect time, nation fixed on the disaster. things could escalate to uncontrolable proportions.


Exactly! The world must look at us in a different light, now that they know we can't even help ourselves! WEAK VERY WEAK!!

[Pappy]

being the devils advocate, if i was a terrorist, i now see how bad the country could be impacted from a well planned attack on the refineries. imagine if they could hit 2 or 3 in different parts of the country at once.

its a shame when we have what may be the worst natural disaster of our time unfolding and the news is split between human tradegy and gas prices.

[zeppelin]

not saying they deserved it or any thing, but they were given so many oprotuneiteys and when the didnt take them they blame the government for not taking care of them it just really pisses me off, oh and this comes form local news and radio ( i live in br ) and my dad has been fliyng in a helicopter down there and to mississipi all this week

[zeppelin]

Originally posted by Pappy
being the devils advocate, if i was a terrorist, i now see how bad the country could be impacted from a well planned attack on the refineries. imagine if they could hit 2 or 3 in different parts of the country at once.

its a shame when we have what may be the worst natural disaster of our time unfolding and the news is split between human tradegy and gas prices.

stop giving them ideas

[Atkins]

Originally posted by Pappy
just think what would happen if a terorist strike would take place now. perfect time, nation fixed on the disaster. things could escalate to uncontrolable proportions. Im not trying to bash us being in Iraq at all, because theres NO WAY you can predict something like this happening, but our military is so thinly stretched right now, that a terrorist attack would absolutely devastate our country right now, all because some some brilliant individuals hade the great idea to build a city 20ft below sea level.:rolleyes:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by zeppelin
stop giving them ideas

im certain they have more then enough info on us;)

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Atkins
Im not trying to bash us being in Iraq at all, because theres NO WAY you can predict something like this happening, but our military is so thinly stretched right now, that a terrorist attack would absolutely devastate our country right now, all because some some brilliant individuals hade the great idea to build a city 20ft below sea level.:rolleyes:

it is?

every branch of the armed forces is over 100% in its recruitment numbers, some way over.

flip the channel...lol

[Atkins]

Originally posted by Pappy
it is?

every branch of the armed forces is over 100% in its recruitment numbers, some way over.

flip the channel...lol

Our military is stretched way too thin for average recruiting to make up for it.

Ive been watching CNN and MSNBC, but they just piss me off with coverage of that chick in Aruba and gas prices, so Im done wth them.:chinese:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Atkins
Our military is stretched way too thin for average recruiting to make up for it.


average recruitment? the army is something like 118% in its recruitment numbers.

i used recruitment as an example that there is no short supply of americans willing to serve. the united states armed forces are in no way short in numbers. and the way wars are fought today, comparing what we have to what we need is a different story. they are pulling troops out of korea based soley on the fact we just dont need the amount on the ground to do the job anymore.

hopefully this link works

http://usmilitary.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=usmilitary&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dior.whs.mil%2Fmmid%2Fmilitary %2Fmiltop.htm

lots of numbers to mull over. this is one that can be used to argue that the military is smaller then it was also. but you have to factor in that the military as a hole is getting smaller due to the nature of todays warfare and tactics. the media uses the decline to push an agenda that we are weakend by this.

[bayou boy]

there were busses running during the evacuation...but they were bringing people to a shelter of last resort...aka the superdome. at first they were only asking for people with medical issues etc. then after that was asked for a few hrs. later then they said ok to the population to come to the dome. I could see their point in doing it that way to ease the chaos but at the same time I think a better plan would be bus them to a place elsewhere...above sealevel. I could also see the mayor making the comments he did....he is watching his people die with little help. at least it caught alot of attention. the local relief effort is unorganized...some local restaurants were cooking food and bringing ice and water to some shelters across the river from new orleans and needed some trucks and trailers to bring it. that was wednesday we still never heard from them..we found out they really didnt want all of it they wanted to get them out asap. what does that have to do with feeding them. they were asking for clothes on the radio for storm victims then an hr. later they were saying no more clothes. I went to wal mart yesterday to pick up bread milk etc. and the aisles were stacked with water...ice chests etc. things are starting to get back to normal here since the storm so why do we have all these supplies that we really dont need? I would think they could send it to the city. I would think a wal mart truck loaded with water could get through the checkpoints. there has been a levee upgrade program but its budget also got slashed. there has also been coastal erosion bills in washington that have also gotten shot down.