KBR/VCP Stock bore 450R

[kgbg]

Due to Chucky being a p r i c k
this thread is 5000!


Lets do it his way.


I got my VCP stock bore and it rips, it pulls the tires up in any gear, its way stronger than stock, and its the BOMB!

[chad502ex]

looks like VCP basically did this whole build. I want to know what your DD filter is. Please take no offense. Just wondering why 53 on meth with porting and HH piston is considered better than 48hp HC on gas; I know its a difference of 5 hp there, but isn't this what we would expect to see from meth and HH mods?

Now, if this was a stock bore/stroke that made 62-65hp like DASA on race gas (not meth), then I'd say AWESOME!! :eek2:


But- kudos to you for meth mod, mix port madness, and HH gains over similiar shelf builds.

[cals400ex]

we are all ready to know what that filter is.. :D

[R3Concepts]

True. But will be a looker non the less.

[OKTRX450R]

Originally posted by chad502ex
looks like VCP basically did this whole build. I want to know what your DD filter is. Please take no offense. Just wondering why 53 on meth with porting and HH piston is considered better than 48hp HC on gas; I know its a difference of 5 hp there, but isn't this what we would expect to see from meth and HH mods?

Now, if this was a stock bore/stroke that made 62-65hp like DASA on race gas (not meth), then I'd say AWESOME!! :eek2:


But- kudos to you for meth mod, mix port madness, and HH gains over similiar shelf builds.

I must be reading it wrong...aren't the last 3 runs on gas? 52 and 53 HP?

Are you saying DASA is making 62-65 on stock bore/stroke, and race gas? And from reading your statement you are... Please point me to the dyno sheets...

[R3Concepts]

Why is that a shocker? Joe's motor that Dan did is ALOT smaller then a stock bore TRX and it puts out 65 HP. That'll happen when you have a genius as a motor builder..Sorry to hyjack..Good luck Kam should be killer.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by OKTRX450R
I must be reading it wrong...aren't the last 3 runs on gas? 52 and 53 HP?

Are you saying DASA is making 62-65 on stock bore/stroke, and race gas? And from reading your statement you are... Please point me to the dyno sheets...

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=177996&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
Why is that a shocker? Joe's motor that Dan did is ALOT smaller then a stock bore TRX and it puts out 65 HP. That'll happen when you have a genius as a motor builder..Sorry to hyjack..Good luck Kam should be killer.

Absolutely, bigger difference here. Dan is an incredible innovator and a genious. IMO too!

[OKTRX450R]

Wow...that is pretty!

Guess I would like to see that bike on KGB's dyno or KGB's bike on Dan's dyno just to compare...

KGB also did a drop in cam and did not touch the valves or springs...something has to be said for that. Like KGB said an inexpensive build easily repeatable...but for all out hog I would say Dan is on to something!!!

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
Now, if this was a stock bore/stroke that made 62-65hp like DASA on race gas (not meth), then I'd say AWESOME!! :eek2:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this DASA engine that you speak of is not stock bore/stroke, right?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this DASA engine that you speak of is not stock bore/stroke, right?

OH YES it is stock bore/stroke

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
OH YES it is stock bore/stroke


Joe's motor that Dan did is ALOT smaller then a stock bore TRX

Now I'm confused:huh

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
Now I'm confused:huh

ok, Dan can make 60hp on stock and slightly smaller than stock too. Dan is capable of making that power on both stock or smaller setups.

[Bad Habit]

Sorry your thread got hijacked Kam.


Outstanding results using reliable drop-in components for a very piggy bank friendly build.;)

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
Sorry your thread got hijacked Kam.


Outstanding results using reliable drop-in components for a very piggy bank friendly build.;)

Oh yes Kam, nice build.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kgbg
Meth on a 13.75:1 is not a peak hp producer, but it comes on sooner, longer and runs cooler.
I bet your meth testing says that too , right Chad?

for most, meth is a big headache setting it up and getting it. Why bother when you can get more with less?

what is your DD filter?

[OKTRX450R]

Chad, with stock bore/stroke DASA is making 62-65 HP...then going stroked and bored they are only making 65??? I do not understand...

Here is quote from another dyno sheet...I guess I am getting confused on why your are not impressed with Kams build...it has about 40% of the work the below build has...and about half the price...


Originally posted by Dynodn
Dasa cyl kit 99mm stroker piston
stroker crank 6mm
ported head
Web cam (Dasa Grind)
Valve springs
OS valves
Dasa Ex pipe
43mm CRF carb
Dyna tech CDI
Good race fuel
Dasa TRX Air Filter Kit

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kgbg
The meth is a breeze to set up, I can change from meth to gas in 10 mins TOPS. Thats the biggest bang out of my Lectron carbs (well that and better throttle response than my FCR).
Its cheaper, has more octane, comes on sooner, longer and smells cooler than gas. I doubt you can gt more with less.
The DD filter is my KBR set up.
Care to answer my question?

Yes, you may be able to change the setup in 10 minutes, but most aren't able to. A Lectron carb is basically the same carb as a FCR without an accelerator pump. A Lectron also uses a metering rod instead of a needle. Most Lectrons also have a power jet too so that the fuel is "unmetered" at WOT. The reason the Lectron throttle response is soo crisp is that the engine is leaned out more than FCR is at same low rpm. The Lectron carb and the FCR was designed by the same carb designer. I ran the Lectron on the 502 many years ago, and your correct it is equivalent to FCR without the low end accel pump to wetten down the engine. The Lectron is great for dragg'n but not for woods where low end rpm'n around on trails would cause higher running temps. I have verified the increase in temps. I can promise you that most ppl are not going to understand how to "twist" the lectron metering rod to dial in the carb either.

What is your DD filter specifically? Is it a tangable item?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by OKTRX450R
Chad, with stock bore/stroke DASA is making 62-65 HP...then going stroked and bored they are only making 65??? I do not understand...

Here is quote from another dyno sheet...I guess I am getting confused on why your are not impressed with Kams build...it has about 40% of the work the below build has...and about half the price...

As engine builds get bigger in displacement, that does not mean hp gets as large compared to smaller displacement builds. In other words, you'll get about the same hp off a smaller build compared to a larger stroker ( with about +3% linarly with displacement or so.). What you do not get is the tq on a smaller builds compared to strokers.

Another:

DASA 450 stock build makes ~62-65
DASA 550 stroker just posted ~65-70

now compare tq:

stock 450 tq ~31ft/lbs
DASA 550 tq 48ft/lbs


See the difference? Yopu do not get that much more hp from bigger displacements. In fact, there is a optium displacement with every build too. The biggest gain in builds is TQ.

hope this helps.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kgbg
same carb as a FCR?
Why becasue it has a flat slide?
Other than that a FCR and a Lectron are similar because the meter fuel.
If anyone else can not pull a tank, remove a slide, unscrew a needle, and change a power jet setting in 10 mins, they have 3 left hands.

DD Filter is a air intake system I use that Dennis Packard helped me figure out.

B]Are you going to answer me the questiosn about DASA?
I am sure you are not, because you would have long ago if it were good news. [/B]


Yes basically the same carb as FCR without the accel pump. One thing kewl about Lectron is dual float bowls in most models.

3 left hands. what about a right handed person, can they install your kit? LOL!


Once again, I don't think I should be eleaborating on Dan's (DASA) builds. Only he can answer those questions.

Oh now i remember, your DD air intake system is off a DS...

[duke416ex]

Well, before the arguing gets out of hand, I wanted to say good job on the build, nice numbers!!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kgbg
Its not a DS intake, or filter.
Good try though. That is a mighty fine system however.
You and I both know that Dan's 60 hp stock bore has $5000 in it.
I am taking nothign away from DASA or Dan, thats awesome he can get that from an engine, but that was nto the point of this build.

what $5000- i don't think so.. yes oversize exhaust valves and port work, high compression piston, carb, exhaust, cam, air filter is about it for his 62hp 450R's. I could be wrong on his pricing but i don't beleive for one minute its $5000. Again, i'm not for sure on his pricing tho..

[86atc250r]

Yes basically the same carb as FCR without the accel pump.

:huh :confused:

As Kam said - Why? Because it has a flat style slide and meters fuel?

They are not anywhere near the "same carb" in any other way.

[86atc250r]

The Lectron carb and the FCR was designed by the same carb designer.

Ahhh, now I see the light --- you are confused.

The EDELBROCK is what you're thinking of, not the FCR.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kgbg
It was a typo, thats why I changed it.


I do know the number , I doubt you do, or we would not be discussing this.


Call Dan and tell him you got $2000 to spend, you need a carb, intake, ex, cam, piston, valves, and machine work to get 60 hp, see what he says, and let me know.

While your at it, have him tell you how long that 60 hp engine is good for.

I don't know what he will say, I am curious.

This is a bang for the buck build with max reliability and obvioulsy you can not grasp that.
I am done trying to explain that to you.

ok, whatever.

[TrX450rKiD]

Originally posted by chad502ex
ok, whatever.
Is that a joke, or your actual response?

[chad502ex]

either way i don't care.

[TrX450rKiD]

Where are the dynos that you said have 65 horse with a stock bore/stroke engine? I only saw the graphs for a smaller bore, larger stroke R ...

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by TrX450rKiD
Where are the dynos that you said have 65 horse with a stock bore/stroke engine? I only saw the graphs for a smaller bore, larger stroke R ...

it's in my "UNBELEIVABE" thread

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kgbg
If you don't care, why do you care?


Its 4K for a 60 hp engine FYI!

ok, good luck!