a arms

[fasterthanhell]

are 40ex a arms really bad ona 300ex, also do they work better and how much do they cost?

[300exOH]

Very BAD idea. As the a arms move through their arc you will get a camber change which will cause handling problems. Also it puts the ball joints in a bad position which will cause them to wear much faster. You would be much better off finding a set of used a arms made for the 300. I've tried both setups and the difference is night and day.

[300exr]

i have to agree, i have it rite now and the only thing it mite be good for is flat track, i really wish i bought used plus two's

[8my_Cash]

its only if you do a front end conversion that it works well like relocate the shock mounts and buy 400ex tierods and then 400ex shocks that it works right
i have it on my 300 and its fine

[300exOH]

Originally posted by 8my_Cash
its only if you do a front end conversion that it works well like relocate the shock mounts and buy 400ex tierods and then 400ex shocks that it works right
i have it on my 300 and its fine

That's exactly the type of setup I had. I even had works shocks built for the 400ex front end and it still wasn't right. If you ride a 300 with a proper front end you will notice a big difference.

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by 8my_Cash
its only if you do a front end conversion that it works well like relocate the shock mounts and buy 400ex tierods and then 400ex shocks that it works right
i have it on my 300 and its fine I agree, it's a fine setup for the budget rider.

[Elka83]

Its the best setup for the 300, many of you saying its not good dont really no, all of my other firneds that race nationals have the 400ex a-arms on there 300's. im working with elka and roll design to make the 400ex front end on my 300. I already got the a arms and the shock relocator, if you do the setup right it is the best setup you can get for the 300. Or the jb racing 300ex a arms, but there not long travel. These are the best setups but there very $$$, ricky stair the national youth production winner, smoked the class last season with the roll desin 400ex front end. I kno hes a great rider but he had the quad to back it up.. so u cant really argue with those facts

[Elka83]

double post

[ZeroLogic]

how much dose it extend?

(sorry to butt into the post)

[300ex_#387]

almost 2 inches on each side

[Elka83]

Originally posted by ZeroLogic
how much dose it extend?

(sorry to butt into the post)

u mean the roll design a arms or the stock 400ex

[300ex_#387]

idk waht he wanted but mine was for the stock a arms

[Elka83]

yea well stock is over 1 inch but under 2 inches, the roll's are like + 4 or 5 for a 300, im gettin it as close to 50inches as poss.

[300exOH]

Originally posted by Elka83
Its the best setup for the 300, many of you saying its not good dont really no, all of my other firneds that race nationals have the 400ex a-arms on there 300's. im working with elka and roll design to make the 400ex front end on my 300. I already got the a arms and the shock relocator, if you do the setup right it is the best setup you can get for the 300. Or the jb racing 300ex a arms, but there not long travel. These are the best setups but there very $$$, ricky stair the national youth production winner, smoked the class last season with the roll desin 400ex front end. I kno hes a great rider but he had the quad to back it up.. so u cant really argue with those facts

I'm saying the 400ex/250r front end is bad because I HAVE tried it. I had 250r arms with custom built Works shocks and a shockmount relocator and I ended up selling it and upgrading to burgards built FOR the 300ex and the difference is night and day. It is much less twitchy at high speeds and the steering is much lighter and easier to control.

I'd say Ricky Stair did well because he is an awesome rider NOT because of the 400ex front end. From what I hear he could ride a tricycle to the checkered flag.:eek2:

[Elka83]

wow, nvm, and im not juts talking about ricky stair here, w.e im not even gonna try to argue with ... o yea do u race nationals?? j/w

[300exOH]

Originally posted by Elka83
wow, nvm, and im not juts talking about ricky stair here, w.e im not even gonna try to argue with ... o yea do u race nationals?? j/w

I'm not trying to argue at all. I'm just trying to explain that while the 400ex/250r front end feels better than stock it is still not right. When I switched to stuff built for the 300 I noticed even more of an improvement than I did with the conversion. I don't race but I do keep up on it as a fan.

[Elka83]

why do u say its so bad???, stock isnt gonna be good, i dont wanna argue either. When u say its twitchy, anything is twitchy dude, thats why the sell steering stablizers, all racers have them, they reduce bump steer, pro's use 2 steering stabilzers, did u run a steering stabilzer whne u rode with your 400ex front end? Im saying if it is setup right and you have the proper stuff, its the best front end for a 300ex

[300exOH]

My burgard 300ex +2+1's aren't at all twitchy compared to the conversion. Also with the 400ex/250r front end you will get a notable change in toe as the supension moves. Having the correct a arm geometry will minimize the change in toe. I haven't tried a steering stabilizer because with my new front end it isn't needed for trail riding. Also the balljoints aren't at an ideal angle with the conversion which could cause them to wear/break prematurely. I honestly thought the conversion felt pretty good at first but it made my arms sore after longer rides. When I switched to the new stuff I immediately noticed less soreness when I rode.

[300exOH]

I also forgot to add that I noticed a front end push in corners with the conversion that isn't there with the burgards. To me it was worth the extra money to do it right.

[Jake250ex]

double post


and by double post you mean septeen-million repost. a quote from the famous Jeff Stoess - "this is the most talked about subject on this site."

[VT250X]

If you don't have the cash for the proper front end then the 400EX A-arms, Tie rods, Shock relocator and 400EX stock shocks are not bad, but they do NOT work properly. The geometry of the 2 frames are totally different. The only improvement you are noticing is the stability because of the width. That's all.

I tried it and not only did it not look right, but it wasn't very uncomfortable while riding. Running in a straight line was ok. After that I decided to get the proper stuff. I had spent close to $350 bucks on all the 400EX stuff including the relocator. When I decided to get stuff made for my quad I got a set of used Burgard +2/+1 chome a-arms with tire rods for $180 on ebay and a complete set of used Works shocks for $250 from a member on here. They are dual rate with TPL and rezzies and the rear is a single rate with rezzie. Near the end of the winter I'm going to get them revalved for my weight, riding style and a-arms. Still I only spent another $100 more, but I got the right stuff and I am very happy.

In your defense I wet to Jolly Roger MX park in Lemster, NH this past weekend and there were several 300EX's with the 400EX front ends and they did pretty well. I just think you would be better off saving up and getting the right equipment. If your patient you can come across some good deals.

LM

[Elka83]

i am not talking about the cheap 400ex a arms that are stock and that stuff, im talking about roll design stuff with all top notch everything.

[VT250X]

Originally posted by Elka83
i am not talking about the cheap 400ex a arms that are stock and that stuff, im talking about roll design stuff with all top notch everything.

It doesn't matter. They are still not designed to be used with the 300EX geometry. The Roll design, Lonestar or any other company for that matter build their 400EX products using the same geometry as the cheap stock stuff. They are just wider, maybe lighter and better built. They will not work correctly.

I'm not trying to argue with you or bust on you in any way. I ignored the nay sayers when I set out to do the 400EX thing. I figured I would relay my experience to you to help you make your decision. That's all. If your going to spend that kind of money then why not get stuff made specifically for your quad? I'm not sure about Roll Design or Lonestar, but I believe Burgard makes some LT front ends for the 300EX and they get pretty damn wide. My front end is 44" wide with just the +2 a-arms. My friends 250R has a Roll Design Lobo II LT front end with Custom Axis shocks and it's a little over 49". At tech inspection I had to stand on one side of the measuring gate while the judge stood on the other side just so he could drive through it without dragging it along.

If you do get the 400EX stuff and it feels good to you and your happy then to hell with what everyone else says.

LM

[Elka83]

hah, yea man, btw , at natioanls, all of the winning/ good riders are running 400ex, Im sponserd by roll and they give me the parts free so im running the lobo II front end, with shock reloater, and im working with elka to make the shocks. So this this will be dialed in perfect. If you do it right, with top of the line parts like all the other people racing nationals, then its the setup. And even hetrick recomended the jb 250r a arms, im pretty sure.

[exman]

the majority of the ridrs at the nationals are not running the shock relocater and 400ex arms....we ran +3 burgards and some dual rate elkas last year...got laughed at by all the 400ex arm guys..until the end of the year when we took 3rd overall. it is better than stock..makes you wider...but you have to ask your self this.....if the shock relocater was good,,,then why is it not on the pro quads.

[8my_Cash]

lol because the pros have the money for the amazing front ends

[Cody_300ex]

Originally posted by Elka83
hah, yea man, btw , at natioanls, all of the winning/ good riders are running 400ex, Im sponserd by roll and they give me the parts free so im running the lobo II front end, with shock reloater, and im working with elka to make the shocks. So this this will be dialed in perfect. If you do it right, with top of the line parts like all the other people racing nationals, then its the setup. And even hetrick recomended the jb 250r a arms, im pretty sure.

400ex front ends dont make you win a race or a better rider.:rolleyes:

[elementryder]

im getting +2 burgards for 300ex/ shock relocator and/ 400ex works triple rates w/rezzies will this work

[300exOH]

Originally posted by elementryder
im getting +2 burgards for 300ex/ shock relocator and/ 400ex works triple rates w/rezzies will this work

It will work well as long as you have the shocks set up for the conversion. Otherwise the valving and spring rates will be off becuase the shocks will be in a more upright position on the 300 than they were on the 400. That's basically the same setup I have only I have 400ex length Elka's and it works awesome.

[elementryder]

dang i don already ordered them works and aint set up fur conversion

[300exOH]

Originally posted by elementryder
dang i don already ordered them works and aint set up fur conversion

If you haven't got them yet you could call them up and change your order a bit. I had to take measurements and fill out a build sheet for mine to have them set up correctly for the burgards and relocater bracket. They should be okay set up for the 400 but not as good as they should be.

[Ripitupfilms]

i hope you guys know your argueing with a kid that you couldnt touch on a track even if you had a 450r or any big quad.. Elka83 knows his schit............and If you read hes saying the 400ex setup is awesome and is worth it .. I also know many riders with the 400ex arm setup and i havent heard one complaint.........

[2muchquad]

the bottom line is 400ex a arms work fine for the average rider.PERIOD i absolutely have no issues with mine.some guys get on here and talk that castor,front end push bullsht and they arent even nation caliber riders.Unless you are getting paid to race or get your stuff free,you will be happy with the 250r/400ex setup.ihave been riding quads since 86' and i have no problems with it.I do have elka triple rates with adj reb/comp because i like the tunability.,but those arent a necessity.So for anybody thinking about doing this setup go for it.Dont spend $1000 for 300ex specific a arms and such when you'll never get your money back.have a nice day:)

[300exOH]

Originally posted by 2muchquad
the bottom line is 400ex a arms work fine for the average rider.PERIOD i absolutely have no issues with mine.some guys get on here and talk that castor,front end push bullsht and they arent even nation caliber riders.Unless you are getting paid to race or get your stuff free,you will be happy with the 250r/400ex setup.ihave been riding quads since 86' and i have no problems with it.I do have elka triple rates with adj reb/comp because i like the tunability.,but those arent a necessity.So for anybody thinking about doing this setup go for it.Dont spend $1000 for 300ex specific a arms and such when you'll never get your money back.have a nice day:)

No offense intended but I don't think you have to be a national caliber rider to tell the difference between a good setup and a great one. I do agree that for most riders the 250r/400ex front end is okay. And it is hard to justify spending thousands on a 300ex. The truth is I can feel an improvemnt with the burgards vs. the conversion. The biggest complaint I had was the front end push. It was really noticeable in mud or snow. The push was gone immediately when I switched to the burgards.
I'm not against the conversion. It is a cheap upgrade and if someone doesn't like it then it isn't hard to resell the conversion and go with the aftermarket a arms. I ended up selling my 250r front end for close to what I had in it so it was worth trying.

[BuiltBlaster88]

Hmm some of you guys are pretty funny. Let's see here..would you rather have a freakin badass long travel front end puts you at 50" wide and has 12 inches of travel, or just settle for some dinky little +2 a arms with like 8 inches of travel? Obviously you'll want to go with the wider setup to be as stable as possible. Bobby races nationals and needs the best of the best ****, so leave him alone, he knows what he's doing!! And judging from the pic, it looks like his front end setup is working out well.

[gonenbroke]

yeah but that pic of his front end brings to words to my mind- SWEET and MONEY!$!$!$!$!$

[Cody_300ex]

Originally posted by BuiltBlaster88
Hmm some of you guys are pretty funny. Let's see here..would you rather have a freakin badass long travel front end puts you at 50" wide and has 12 inches of travel, or just settle for some dinky little +2 a arms with like 8 inches of travel? Obviously you'll want to go with the wider setup to be as stable as possible. Bobby races nationals and needs the best of the best ****, so leave him alone, he knows what he's doing!! And judging from the pic, it looks like his front end setup is working out well.

I got a damn near 50" wide front end with 11.96 inches of travel, MADE for a 300ex, and only cost me under 500 dollars. Gdh racing LT a-arms.....:)


PS Check the date on the thread, several months old..

[SET THE STAGE]

i don't understand how a complete 400ex front end would make an extreme amount of bumpsteer or major camber when bottomed out? i mean if you use the stock 400ex spindles, tie rods, arms, shocks, and shock relocator it should take you very close to the 400ex geometry :rolleyes:

[Ripitupfilms]

SET THE STAGE)) your right it doesnt these kid just dont know what there talking about

[Cody_300ex]

Originally posted by SET THE STAGE
i don't understand how a complete 400ex front end would make an extreme amount of bumpsteer or major camber when bottomed out? i mean if you use the stock 400ex spindles, tie rods, arms, shocks, and shock relocator it should take you very close to the 400ex geometry :rolleyes:

From what a heard the steering stem needs modification also to make it work 100%

[2muchquad]

[QUOTE]SET THE STAGE)) your right it doesnt these kid just dont know what there talking about[/QUOTE

LMAO:D :D now thats funny...and true:)

[300exOH]

Originally posted by atvracer9m
SET THE STAGE)) your right it doesnt these kid just dont know what there talking about

kid???? I happen to be 17 years older than you.:ermm:

[Ripitupfilms]

ow well you still dont know what your talking about

[BuiltBlaster88]

Originally posted by 300exOH
kid???? I happen to be 17 years older than you.:ermm: You're 33 years old and ride a 300ex...oh man. :eek2:

[Cody_300ex]

Here are are 2 very good threads that address the problems with 400ex a-arms on a 300ex.....

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88139&highlight=400ex+aarms+on+a+300ex

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75302&highlight=400ex+aarms+on+a+300ex

[Ripitupfilms]

BUMPSTEAR.. hmm thats y they make dampers

[Ripitupfilms]

the forums you posted have you and one other guy saying thats its bad and 300 million other people saying they have the setup and love it and it really works..

How come most good national riders i know run this setup

[2muchquad]

You're 33 years old and ride a 300ex...oh man.

whats wrong with a 300ex?i happen to be 33 and i ride a 300ex.i can afford any quad i like i just choose to ride it.i also have another quad and 2 dirt bikes.watch it buddy...:D

[300exOH]

Yep. I'm 33 and ride a 300. I bought it new as my first quad and liked it so I stayed with it. I don't really need much just for trail riding other than the few mods I have. I think it's a great all around trail quad. Plus I bought quads for the wife and kids and didn't really have the money to spend on a bigger quad.

Oh and 300 million people aren't always right. Just read the info posted by cody_300ex. Jeff explains exactly why the setup isn't perfect. Personally I would listen to the pros who ride/build the stuff before just any rider. Yes the national riders may be fast with the conversion but maybe they could be faster with parts built for the 300.

[Ripitupfilms]

Rolldesign and Elka are proffesional company's and they gave the stuff to Elka83 ive personally have a 300ex with the conversion and there isnt anything wrong with it

[Cody_300ex]

Originally posted by atvracer9m
Rolldesign and Elka are proffesional company's and they gave the stuff to Elka83 ive personally have a 300ex with the conversion and there isnt anything wrong with it

Just Keep telling yourself that.....

[SET THE STAGE]

Originally posted by Cody_300ex
Just Keep telling yourself that.....

don't you think elka and roll design would know if it's a good setup or not. i mean they ARE professionals and damn good ones at that, if it was a bad setup they wouldn't give them to one of their best young riders to use at nationals. think about it.

[Ripitupfilms]

elka83 is sponosored and gets them for free i know the whole deal elka and roll threw him .... y would they want him to run a bad setup

[Ripitupfilms]

my question to you (Cody_300ex ) is do you even race or ride nationals if you did you would see and talk to people with this setup.. i have a rolling 300ex in my gardge right now with this setup and it was ran in nationals

)

[2muchquad]

well the bottom line is to each his own.If you are buried in the back of the pack in the woodsman class with the 400ex conversion,guess what with 300ex specific front end you'll still be in the back of the pack.I got my 400ex a arms for $50.Show me where i can get a set of +2 a arms for a 300ex for that price and i will run them..i thought so.Anybody who still doesnt agree comne on down to Dirt World in ohio or Big Game raceway in hubbard,ohio and get smoked by a 33yr old running a "wacked" 400ex setup.:D Have a nice day

[300exOH]

Originally posted by 2muchquad
well the bottom line is to each his own.If you are buried in the back of the pack in the woodsman class with the 400ex conversion,guess what with 300ex specific front end you'll still be in the back of the pack.I got my 400ex a arms for $50.Show me where i can get a set of +2 a arms for a 300ex for that price and i will run them..i thought so.Anybody who still doesnt agree comne on down to Dirt World in ohio or Big Game raceway in hubbard,ohio and get smoked by a 33yr old running a "wacked" 400ex setup.:D Have a nice day

Well said. Everyone has their own preference. If you are fast you can win on just about anything even if it isn't an ideal setup.

atvracer9m- Just curious but have you owned a front end built for the 300? Or just the conversion and stock front ends?

And just because someone is sponsored by roll and elka doesn't mean it's the best setup. It just means that's what people are willing to run. Most companies are more interested in the advertising they get when their rider wins than making sure the rider has the optimal setup.

[Ripitupfilms]

i bought my quad with leagers +2 300ex arms and PEPS i now have +2 400ex arms wit the shock conversion and stock 250r shocks on them.. regardless there is no difference excpet for travel.... your saying its not a good idea when im saying it doesnt matter and it you want good travel and handeling get the 400ex setup

[300exOH]

Aren't the stock 250r shocks really soft with 400ex +2 a arms?

I do have plenty of wheel travel with my front end since I have a shockmount bracket and custom 400ex length elkas.

Either way I guess we can agree to disagree.:D

[Ripitupfilms]

yuppers.. another reall quick opinion i have the relocator but i dont like how it puts the shocks strait up and down

[300exOH]

Originally posted by atvracer9m
yuppers.. another reall quick opinion i have the relocator but i dont like how it puts the shocks strait up and down

Yeah. The straight up position is a bit weird but that's one reason to have the shocks built specifically for the relocater bracket and a arms. I had to take several simple measurements and fill out a build sheet for my elkas. I have no complaints with how it works/feels but it looks a bit strange to some. At first it looked odd to me too but I'm used to it now though.

[exman]

300ex long travel arms 16.1/4 inch shocks made for a 300ex, 11.75 inches of travel

[exman]

major major dollars not to have your wheels planted on the ground, same turn as above pic

[exman]

and another all on the same turn

squirly

[2muchquad]

you guys still talkin bout'dis stuff :D photos are inconclusive.i like my 400 set up and im stickin to it,i dont get paid to race:)

[SET THE STAGE]

those pictures don't mean anything, it all depends on the rider.

and i don't know about the other two guys, but the last one is Bobby Mazey and i'm pretty sure he knows a good front suspension setup from a bad one, if it were bad he'd get rid of it.

edit: and that last pic of bobby mazey isn't a "squirly" one. find some other pics of him going through turns. he does the same thing, even on his blaster

[Ripitupfilms]

wow way to bump this old thread.. pics dont mean nothing.. pic 3 doesnt look squirly.. your retarded i can find picks of pros up on 2 tires it doent mean nothing

[honda965]

i cant say i agree with you's on this 1, ya the 300 front end is better but the 400 has better shocks. the only reason i bought them is bc my friend sold them to me for 350$ instead of spendin like a 1000$ on other shock/arms

[exman]

1. retarded....ya i think not

with riders being equal

1. back wheels on ground=more power to the ground=equals better control through corners =faster around the track

2. front tires on the ground= more control= better handling=less slide= ability to manage poswer on the ground = faster around the track

3. 4 tires on the ground=more control=ability to manage power=LESS FATIGUE=faster on the track.

and By the way...you need to flip through the pro pictures find that same flat corner pictire at macon....i think out of 28 pages of pictures...something like that...99% had all four tires on the ground

And yes mazy is a hell of a rider...he rides hard and he rides fast and he is good

[Ripitupfilms]

omg you make no sense the front is a small percent of turning and it doesnt mean that the quad goes up like that goes up like that, there many other factors..

1. rider position

2 SPEed goin into the corner

3. how much throttle there using to turn the rear..

4. this post was done with a while ago and your beating a dead horse

[gonenbroke]

yeah exman u got a good point but... theres a corner on my track that is a lot sharper than that and i can go around it 3rd pinned and keep all fours on the ground and im runnin a stock front and rear end

older subject but what ever

[Ryanwolfe911]

Like everyone is saying, the 400ex conversion is just fine for the average trail rider guy. I don't car if the geometry isn't 100% correct, because i only trail ride, I don't race. IfI were to start racing professionally, I would buy some nice chromoly a arms made for the 300, just cause I know how easily the stock arms bend, but not for the handling pupose. I have ridden it both ways, and I really don't see much of a handling difference, other than the extra travel when jumping. Not eveyone has $1000 to spend on their 300ex, especially since it a freakin 300ex!! IT's just not worth it.

[kd5sfq]

Over the last few years, I've read all the pro's and cons over and over and over. It's almost a mute point and some of you guys will never change your minds but here are my thoughts...

For all you guys that think or just know it's a bad idea, tell me why would Hetrick racing stick their reputation on the line by selling a conversion kit? Tell me why would almost every 300ex in the ATVA youth production class be switching to that kind of set up? Why would Elka and PEP be selling shocks for those setups?

My son raced his first MX on a stock front end but that didn't last long. The next race, because of reading what everyone was saying negatively about that setup, we passed up a sweet deal on some 400ex +2 arms and shocks. We bought +2 300ex arms and Works shocks.. Better but not great. He ran the rest of the season but was loosing big time those who had a better suspension... A 300ex with 400ex +2 arms was winning his class big that year...

We bought +2 400ex arms and Elka Shocks and did a conversion to a 400ex front end. Major improvement. He was on the podium every race.

Now we are running him on 400ex Houser +3 long travel, 19 1/4 inch quad rate shocks and a JB racing Bolt on upper shock mount from Hetrick with the rest of the 400ex front end. He's running at the very front of the pack now with the same engine from last year against faster quads. His skills are improved but he says the new setup is awesome!

Frankly, my son complained about bump steer more with the +2 300ex front end. Now all he complains about is power in the holeshot.

I will say that the conversion is not cheap and that it may not be for everyone. Like wise I would discourage anyone from using stock 400ex arms because they are not caster/camber adjustable.

Here is a photo of his +2 400ex setup.

[SET THE STAGE]

i back that post so hard. thank you.

and yeah if i were to get them i wouldn't spend money on stock arms, i would get like a set of +2's off ebay from full flight for a 400ex. they're like 320. besides the stock 400 arms go for like 100 on ebay, what a waste.

[BiG James]

ex man is just mad that he bought the whole setup and realized the 400ex one is better

[kd5sfq]

Here is a photo from last weekend with the new setup.

[kd5sfq]

This one shows the front end more.

[kd5sfq]

Doesn't look like he had any problems cornering with that set up to me...

[Cody_300ex]

Originally posted by BiG James
ex man is just mad that he bought the whole setup and realized the 400ex one is better

He actually owns GDH Racing, He makes Gdh 300ex LT a-arms.

[Ripitupfilms]

nice pics

[Elka83]

dont feel like bringing this thread back but i gotta post..

Both of these front ends are awsome.. You all just have these 1 sided opinions about the 300 a arms and the 400a arms. There both great and i am not saying one is WAY better than the other. I want to get the point across that all of you people who have no idea how sweet a 400ex set up, with the spindles, tie rods, etc. is. Its just they make better a arms for 400ex's. Most companys dont do anything for 300's. I mean you can get Roll Design, Walsh, houser, ..... you know. So just stop making yourselves look like you dont know what your talking about when you bash a 400ex front end... w.e

And i wish one of you guys went to a national, it would be funny hearing you try to convice the kids on the top 3, Rich #5 Jrd 400ex Long travel front end with axis shocks, Neal McGrath Roll design front end with axis shocks, and Me with roll design front end and elkas, that the 400ex front end is "really twitchy" and has alot of "Bumpsteer"!!!!!!!

[Elka83]

this is 5th gear wide open into a turn.......

http://myspace-103.vo.llnwd.net/00633/30/17/633067103_l.jpg
comming from 5th gear and turing and all 4 wheels are on the ground

[Elka83]

Both 400ex setups

http://myspace-762.vo.llnwd.net/00624/26/72/624812762_l.jpg

ok im done