compression and nos

[SHADETREE101]

i have maxed out my engine and want to change it up. i am in the middle of a tear down and am taking out the 13:5:1 piston i am unhappy with the top end rev. i gained alot of torque but lost top end rpm's. i am looking to lower and add nitrous. what suggestions do you have for compression. this is a high rev bike.

[400exmatt]

11:1

[MarkyNark]

12:1 compression will work with 2 steps cooler on the plug. No more than a 20 hp shot of NOS. Run straight 110 octane.

I ran 12:1 with a 15 shot of NOS and 1 step cooler Saturday - I got away with it, but am going one more step cooler when I go to a 20 shot.

If you are running Boondocker nitrous, make sure your manifold pressure is the recommended 2.5 lbs and recheck it with a manometer again before you ride.

The thing I like about the 12:1 piston, is that you still get some decent power without nitrous.

Your power curve will drop by about 1000 RPM with nitrous - FYI.

[racin richard]

why put nitrous on a bike that you probabally like to ride and not have to worry about blowing it up. But thats just my opinion so don't take it to the heart like most people do.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by racin richard
why put nitrous on a bike that you probabally like to ride and not have to worry about blowing it up. But thats just my opinion so don't take it to the heart like most people do.

This just proves the point I have made over and over. The only people afraid of nitrous, or worry about "blowing it up" are people that have never used nitrous at all.

[racin richard]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
This just proves the point I have made over and over. The only people afraid of nitrous, or worry about "blowing it up" are people that have never used nitrous at all.
ok so i havn't used but its a proven fact that nitrous burns up any engine!!

[wilkin250r]

A proven fact? WTF are you talking about. I know MANY people that have used nitrous many many times without burning their engine. I've myself have also personally used it, and the only time I ever ran into a problem was because of my own stupidity. I doubled my engine horsepower, and that little engine couldn't take it.

I have used nitrous, it doesn't "burn up any engine" unless you take it too far. But thanks for your uninformed opinion.

[racin richard]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
A proven fact? WTF are you talking about. I know MANY people that have used nitrous many many times without burning their engine. I've myself have also personally used it, and the only time I ever ran into a problem was because of my own stupidity. I doubled my engine horsepower, and that little engine couldn't take it.

I have used nitrous, it doesn't "burn up any engine" unless you take it too far. But thanks for your uninformed opinion.
there you go your own stuopidity like most!!! I/D

[EvilJester400EX]

LOL. That's funny how you challenge a person who has experience in what you know nothing about.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by racin richard
there you go your own stuopidity like most!!! I/D

Look, I'm not trying to start a fight here, and I'm not the type of person to call you a noob, but it's obvious you are new, here. My reputation is well known on this board for my technical knowledge. There aren't too many people around that are going to accuse me of "stuopidity".

I have used Nitrous Oxide, and more importantly, I have researched Nitrous Oxide. Rest assured, if I post information on this board, the information is factual and accurate, unless I post a disclaimer otherwise.

There are many ways to keep nitrous from burning anything. First and foremost is to keep it to a reasonable level. This is where I failed in my first nitrous attempts.

If the first solution is just impossible, you need to start playing with other parameter. A rich mixture can often prevent detonation, and even overheating. Ignition timing plays a big factor, and serious enthusiasts will even optimize their camshaft for nitrous use.

Bottom line is, I know Nitrous. Nitrous is not "proven" to burn motors, as you claim. My claim is that stupidity burns motors, and I'm willing to help people prevent that.

[racin richard]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Look, I'm not trying to start a fight here, and I'm not the type of person to call you a noob, but it's obvious you are new, here. My reputation is well known on this board for my technical knowledge. There aren't too many people around that are going to accuse me of "stuopidity".

I have used Nitrous Oxide, and more importantly, I have researched Nitrous Oxide. Rest assured, if I post information on this board, the information is factual and accurate, unless I post a disclaimer otherwise.

There are many ways to keep nitrous from burning anything. First and foremost is to keep it to a reasonable level. This is where I failed in my first nitrous attempts.

If the first solution is just impossible, you need to start playing with other parameter. A rich mixture can often prevent detonation, and even overheating. Ignition timing plays a big factor, and serious enthusiasts will even optimize their camshaft for nitrous use.

Bottom line is, I know Nitrous. Nitrous is not "proven" to burn motors, as you claim. My claim is that stupidity burns motors, and I'm willing to help people prevent that.
what ever ff "stuopidity" sas

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by racin richard
what ever ff "stuopidity" sas

Ok, all the rest of you, help me out with this. Is "ff" and "sas" some new internet lingo I've never seen before? Am I missing something, here?

I don't have a clue what his response is supposed to mean. :huh

[underpowered]

The reason most people burn up thier engines is because nitrous causes an extreme lean condition. If used correclt, a cylinoid can be used to inject more fuel along with the shot of nitrous. this still gives you the same horespower results, but elimiates the lean condition caused by the nitrous.

[MarkyNark]

Originally posted by underpowered
The reason most people burn up thier engines is because nitrous causes an extreme lean condition. If used correclt, a cylinoid can be used to inject more fuel along with the shot of nitrous. this still gives you the same horespower results, but elimiates the lean condition caused by the nitrous.

underpowered has it right. There are so many good kits out there, including the Boondocker, that engine failure is simply no longer a problem. The lean considitions of the old Holly NOS systems are pretty much gone now with the new systems that maintain an equal amount of NOS to Extra fuel.

Guys, I could write a book on how the new systems work but you know there will always be someone that isnt open to change. Fine by me --

For those that are open minded .... the problems with the old Nitrous systems was that they used a totally separate system to add additional fuel. Nitrous, is an oxydizer. Like air, it needs a balance of fuel to keep it from running lean. The new Boondocker system (which has a patent pending) utilized the nitrous bottle pressue to automatically presurize the top of your float bowl in the carb with additional gas. So, if you have low bottle pressue, you get an equal small amout of gas. If your bottle is hot, and high pressure, you get an equal high amount of gas. It's all the same system! No more lean conditions, no more rich conditions. In the old days you had to have a pressure guage mounted on your dash to monitor the pressure in the bottle. If it was too high, you had to remove your bottle, find a cold one, and hope it didnt heat up too much. If you ran with too high of bottle pressure, you got too much Nitrous and leaned out your motor. So, stupidity aside, its not Nitrous that kills a motor, its the lack of GAS! Now, there are other systems that use computer control to monitor the pressure in the bottle and fuel pump additional fuel into the intake manifold. Those systems are pretty good too, but also pretty expensive. The Boondocker is the simplest, least expensive, and nearly fool proof once it set up correctly. I've installed 3 so far for my friends quads - all of them have worked flawlessly. No matter how you look at it, you get 20 horsepower more for less than 7 bills.

Like I said before, for those that dont want to run it - fine by me. I'm having the time of my life with mine. My EX now has more power than my old very built DS650.

[SHADETREE101]

i just finished the tear down and found i bent my crank, so as soon as the new one gets here i will have it back together. i am going to run the rest of this season on the big piston, but i am changing to the boonedockers and the 12:1 . i would imagine i wouldn't lose to much normal power with the 12:1 anyway. just for anyone who may think i am stupid because of my engine failure, it was planned. noone believed me that it would run this long on the stock rod and crank but it did, and on alcohol too 1.5 years. i knew something was wrong when a 686 raptor passed me. i can usually pull them with no problem. well since it is apart i am also slippin in some new gears for the tranny and having them hardened. i am still debating on doing the 1-3 overide. but i think it would be awesome for the nos, so it probably will happen.
thanks for the help and suggestions i appreciate everything. and from a person having three pro street cars in the family there is only one thing to know about nos. nos plus correct fuel = amazing power gains. my dads 519 cibic inch makes 864.2 horse on pump gas all day long. thanks again and sorry for the tongue lashing you took to help me.

[MarkyNark]

No problem man! :D

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Ok, all the rest of you, help me out with this. Is "ff" and "sas" some new internet lingo I've never seen before? Am I missing something, here?

I don't have a clue what his response is supposed to mean. :huh

Basic translation: Im sorry wilkin250R I lose, you were right...........


Or at least thats what he SHOULD be saying!

Racin Richard, dont bother he knows what hes talking about so just let it go man.

[wilkin250r]

Me, personally, I have a slightly different take on overheating and nitrous, but I would not suggest this to anybody else. If you follow my footsteps, beware.

I set my nitrous mixture intentionally lean.

Nothing happens instantly. You can't create enough heat to melt a piston within seconds, it takes TIME for that piston to heat up. At the same time, I'm injecting liquid nitrous directly into the cylinder, at some -100 degrees, and it will help cool the piston.

Now, I can't continue to run like this forever, because I will eventually overheat due to the lean condition. However, my bottle is only 1 lb, and it's rapidly decompressing. Not only is it losing pressure, it's also losing HEAT, which will cause the bottle pressure to drop even further. As bottle pressure drop, you get less nitrous, but you're still pumping the same amount of fuel. This means your mixture is gradually getting richer.

So I start off lean, trusting the cryogenic effects of the liquid nitrous to cool my piston, and also trusting my bottle pressure to drop and richen my mixture.

[MarkyNark]

wilkin250r,

There is nothing wrong with experimentation. I'm glad you clarified that its not a recommendation to the general public!

I will say this, you got some gonads!