front end problems need help

[450rrider#55]

I recently installed a new set of a-arms on my 450r and now the front end feels twitchy. They are plus two and plus one forward with heim joints on top and bottom. I am running some 3-2 offset rims and was told that could be the problem. When I go around curves I can't predict how it's going to react. It feels like something is about to come off the front end but everything has got loctite on it. On landings it feels kind of swirly too. The camber caster and toe in is practicly dead on. I can't figure it out. Any ideas as to what the problem could be?

[steveatv3]

im gettin the same type of problem right now with my setup im going to check it out ill let you konw if i find my problem

[450rrider#55]

ok cool. When I first installed them and ran them they were realy bad but since I adjusted the camber they are a little better but still not right. I didn't adjust the heims at the top where it goes to the frame just where it goes in the spindle. I think I need to adjust out the heims where it goes to the frame and pull the ball joint back in toward the a-arms where it goes in the spindle, but I'm not sure.

[Out_Sider]

my stock front end feels twitchy as hell, its hard keepin it straight goin thru a whoop section and on turns its twitchy and landings are terrible... needless to say when i get my aftermarket front end and everythiing and if its still this way im gonna be runnin a stabilizer

[ajr400ex]

Adjusting your castor (if possible depending on arms) should help. Also adjusting the toe can help. I am running about 3/8" toe in with stock arms. Also look into different tie rod ends (GT Thunder) to reduce the bump steer. Dropping the ride height, adjusting the toe, and the tie rod ends made a big difference on mine.

[JRDrider22]

its just something you'll have to adapt to. you'll be fine after a while. but aynthing could be the reason. maybe your shocks arent dialed in the way you'd like.

[450rrider#55]

no it's not something I just have to adapt to. I'm not going to adapt to a bad steering bike. the shocks are not the problem it's the a-arms that just got installed. I didn't have this problem at all with the stock a-arms. It couldn't have been better. I'm running 1/2" toe in and 1/2" camber or / \. I used a rope running around the back tires from the axle to adjust the toe in and used a level to adjust camber. I may need to play with it some more to get it dialed in just right. and it could be the 3-2 offset I'm running also. What are some of the measurements most people run on toe in and camber on aftermarket a-arms?

[superquadguy]

okey look, go to Lonestars site they have all the info you need. and a stabliser ( i think i miss spelled that ) will help. the tires are wider and have more leverage on the bars. and make sure your frontend is not wider than the rear. it will make it handle bad too.

[450rrider#55]

ok I think you guys are misunderstanding me. I'm not a beginner rider. I know what bumpsteer is. this is not bumpsteer. if you don't have any measurements on toe in or camber or know what this possibly could be don't bother responding.

[TBD]

Originally posted by ajr400ex
Adjusting your castor (if possible depending on arms) should help. Also adjusting the toe can help. I am running about 3/8" toe in with stock arms. Also look into different tie rod ends (GT Thunder) to reduce the bump steer. Dropping the ride height, adjusting the toe, and the tie rod ends made a big difference on mine.
Could you explain to me how changing the tie rod ends will change the bumpsteer? I don't see how it's possible but I'm always willing to learn something new.

450rrider#55, You definentlly have a castor problem. Too little castor will make the front end twitchy. Too much castor will make the front end push and hard to steer. I would suggest 5.5 degrees positive for MX and 6.5 degrees for desert and dunes and maybe faster trail ridding. I would set the toe at 1/8-1/4 inch toe in. 1/2 inch toe in is too much in my opinion. Set the camber at 3 degrees negative for mx and 2 degrees negative for most everything else. Are you sure that the lowers are in the right place since it sounds like they have hiems at the frame pivots( terrible idea ). You will need some form of angle finder to check castor.

[ajr400ex]

I am running a little more toe in to account for the bump steer this quad has to insure the toe stays mostly negative though out the range of travel. I am also running 4:1 offset wheels.

As far as the tie rod ends go, if you look at how they mount, one faces up and one faces down. The dimension from the pivot point to the centerline of the tie rod is shorter, which changes the angle of the tie rod slightly. This eliminates about half of the bump steer. Reality is the flag on the steering stem is not in the right place on the stock stem. Some aftermarket stems correct the issue - not sure which ones. The tie rod ends are off a V-force I think. They are not as stiff as stock which some people may not like.

If your arms are castor adjustable, I would start there. Not sure how the +1 forward impacts what you are experiencing, but could be a contributor. To improve the weight balance on the 450r, a + 1 1/4" swing arm is the way to go. Not sure why a-arms are offered in plus 1 forward for this quad. It actually shifts weight to the rear of the quad. The plus forward was actually used on the 250r's to get the weight balance right.

The only thing I don't like on the steering now is the turning radius could be a bit sharper.

[450rrider#55]

ok. I think I found my problem. loose tie rod end where it hooks to the spindle.:ermm: Just got a shock that lowered the rear end. (dual rate) I think it may be too low. It's a little harder to corner now. I think it's hooking up too good in the rear and won't break loose. I'm going to raise it up some in the rear and see if that helps. Thanks to everyone who tried to help out.

[CdaleXtreme]

You need to steepen your spindle angle. The top Spindle stud should be no more than 1/2 inch behind the bottom stud or bolt.

The TT guys lay their spindles back for ultra quick steering, but they dont have whoops and ruts to deal wtih.


You need to slow your steering down a little bit, thus steepening the spindle angle should help deaden your steering a little.

This may put you in a understeer scenario, but it should allow you to throttle through corners better without the rear end sliding around as easily.

Also make sure your toe in is set correctly. about 1/2 is the reccomended spec. But only do this after your A-arms are fully adjusted.

[911]

just 1 thing to try ... in order to take the twitchyness out of my stock setup i toed the front out about 1/4. no one could belive it but it worked great. kept the front going straight in all conditions, and i ride some rough wooped tracks. with all the adjustments u have it will take some time to get it in. most people say it needs a lot of caster. i now have +2 housers and still run it toed out a little. just some thoughts;)