5W -30W oil

[HondaEXrider22]

OK Guys another question here. I used Yard machine 5W -30W 4 cycle oil in my 250ex(2003) because thats all i have. the owners manuel says use 10-40. Can i just add some Lucas to my oil to thicken it up?

[aviator4]

5-30 is WAY to thin to run in an air cooled engine!!! Don't try to thicken it up, switch to 10-40 or even 20-50 IMMEDIATLEY! Use a good quality oil made for 4 strokes as well, EX'es live in harsh conditions and run very hot.. oil is life. Spend the extra cash.

You will break that 5-30 down so fast it's not even funny.

[HondaEXrider22]

Why cant i try to thicken it? My firend is coming over and i needed a change. Can i just wait for two days and then change it?

[aviator4]

Oil
Because you're never going to get the weight right. plus the additives in the Lucas Oil will mess with your clutch. The EX has a "wet clutch" system in it, meaning the plates are constantly bathed in a bath of motor oil, friction modifiers can ruin a clutch.

It only take 2 quarts of oil.... that's about $6.00 or so... just change it to the right stuff and be done with it. If you have to, use a good quality car engine oil like Valvoline or Mobil 1 Red Cap (if you can find it), or even Royal Purple - which is more expensive.

Whatever you do, drain thast 5-30 out of it, you might as well be running castor oil. (that was a joke, don't do that)

[rneal]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jjohnst03
[B]Not true!

Let me break it down for you.

10w-40. The 10 is the start up weight of the oil. Thats ALL that number means. The 40 is the weight of the oil when your motor is up to normal operating temp.

Therefor a 0w-40 will run the SAME as a 10w-40 or 20w-40 AFTER it warms up.

The 0w-40 is a better oil to use when you ride in cold conditions. It will get flowing in your motor faster than a 10w-40 or especially a 20w-50 oil. Thats a fact.

------------------------------------------------

You 5w-40 will be fine as long as it does not contain MOLLY.

[aviator4]

Well, you're partially right.

The oil weight (by SAE standards) is graded by how it reacts at a given temperature. a 5W oil has the same properties as 32 Degrees F as a single grade 5W oil would. This is too thin to allow adequate Thin Film lubricate at summer temperatures.

a 5W weight oil (cold number) is too thin to keep the necessary parts lubricated in the EX engine at summer temps in PA. Keep in mind that the engine oil also maintains lubrcation not only for the enging but for the transmission as well. a 5W oil is so thing that under load, the thin film of oil that the engine relies on (and tranny) is destroyed, leaving metal-to-metal contact and wearing out bearings, bushings, and the transmission gears... not to mention what is does for the clutch. The result in an engine and transmission that has a dramatically shortened life and a transmission that becomes noisy - I'm not even mentioning what it does to the cam lobes here. or how it affects overall cooling of the engine at temperature. (and it does)

TFL (thin film lubrication) is not adequate with a 5W oil unless the temps are below 50 Degrees F outside.

I've seen what 5W-30 does to an EX engine... and it aint pretty. I stick to my original recommendation - drain it and put the right weight oil in it.

[HondaEXrider22]

OK So im gonna buy some. So 20W -50 is best? What brand? Is that sinthetic? Since im gonna spend the money i want the best. It is an 03 250EX with moderate miles and mod in sig. Thanks guys i need a really fast reply tho Cause im going out soon.


TIA

[2004exrider]

never mix oils, it can and will create sludge.

Jimmy

[greg_gorrell]

Originally posted by aviator4
Well, you're partially right.

The oil weight (by SAE standards) is graded by how it reacts at a given temperature. a 5W oil has the same properties as 32 Degrees F as a single grade 5W oil would. This is too thin to allow adequate Thin Film lubricate at summer temperatures.

a 5W weight oil (cold number) is too thin to keep the necessary parts lubricated in the EX engine at summer temps in PA. Keep in mind that the engine oil also maintains lubrcation not only for the enging but for the transmission as well. a 5W oil is so thing that under load, the thin film of oil that the engine relies on (and tranny) is destroyed, leaving metal-to-metal contact and wearing out bearings, bushings, and the transmission gears... not to mention what is does for the clutch. The result in an engine and transmission that has a dramatically shortened life and a transmission that becomes noisy - I'm not even mentioning what it does to the cam lobes here. or how it affects overall cooling of the engine at temperature. (and it does)

TFL (thin film lubrication) is not adequate with a 5W oil unless the temps are below 50 Degrees F outside.

I've seen what 5W-30 does to an EX engine... and it aint pretty. I stick to my original recommendation - drain it and put the right weight oil in it.


if thats the case then why does amsoil have that new synthetic 0w-40 out that is rated for a pretty wide temp range?

[aviator4]

Your best bet is to head down to the local cycle shop and pick up some Klotz, BellRay, or other motor oil specifically designed for cycles and ATV 4 strokes. Personally, I run Bell Ray Thumper and Klotz oils - and nothing else.

If you were to use an automotive oil, I would recommend either Mobil 1 RedCap or Royal Purple. You will have better luck finding Valvoline (and it's a lot cheaper too) - 20-50 is good, but be sure to change it again before this winter... then go down to a 10-40 oil.

Rneal was right about staying away from the Molly additives, they will tear things up.

[rneal]

The new red cap is not safe. It contains molly and is no longer a full synthetic.

[aviator4]

Thats good to know. I wasn't aware of that.

[aviator4]

Greg,

if you read on Amsoils site you will find this:

"...AMSOIL Formula 4-Stroke Synthetic Motor Oil may be used in all applications specifying 0W-40, 5W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40 viscosity grades..."

I am sure it would do just fine in our application as well, but it's a synthetic oil. You're comparing apples to oranges here.

Properties of a synthetic oils are different that that of conventional oils.

If he wanted to run a synthetic oil, I would imagine this one would be just fine. BUT, you're not going to find a "0 weight" conventional oil out there that's anywhere near suitable for our needs.

BTW, why am I getting lambasted for giving the same advice that comes right out of the Honda manual? I don't get it. Honda recommends a 5W oil in areas where temperatures don't exceed 50 degrees on average. PA is MUCH hotter than that right now.
they recommend a 10W-30 where temps are between 20 and 90 degrees and so on... They also recommend 20W-50 where the temp is averaging between 38 and 120 degrees.... it's a wide range.. a huge range...

These are Honda's recommendations. - if you don't like it, then whine to them, not me. I'm just trying to keep the guy from ceasing his engine up.

[HondaEXrider22]

Ok thank you i have bought valvoline and it runs good.(20W-50

[xk47]

20w50

thicker... better...stronger oil for every atv. But in winter it turn like grease:p (sarcasm)

[greg_gorrell]

aviator4,
sorry, i wasnt trying to argue with you, but i forgot you were talkign about regular petroleum oil. yeah i wouldnt run anything lower than a 10w-30 here in pennsylvania. that even will break down quick. up here we have been hitting 100 degrees a lot this summer so i would even run that right now. i personally was using the 20w-50 until i came across this amsoil. but yeah go with the 10w-40 or 20w-50 if your using the petroleum oils.

[aviator4]

No problem. Petroleum oils and Syn's are two different worlds. 20-50 is all I run in my 400. I use BellRay thumper most of the time. In a pinch I can use something else, but I try to stay away from Automotive oils since it's harder to tell just what the heck they are putting in there.

Personally, I think it's better to spend a little extra money and use an oil that's designed for 4 stroke, air cooled, wet clutch applications.

[sportraxkid]

ive allways ran this in mine It works for me im not a synthetic fan
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=77

[ds650rider]

I have to agree with Aviator4 on this one.
5W-30 is WAY to thin when it gets hot to maintain proper lubrication.
Go with the coventional 10w-40 or thicker, it will not hurt a thing.
I also use the thumper oil and love it. Good stuff!
I DO agree that ANYTHING with moly (including additives) are BAD BAD BAD for wet clutches. Moly is a friction modifier, you clutch is guaranteed to slip!