new header pipe?

[eldoexrider01]

are there any good points at keeping your stock head pipe (w/ or w/o ground welds) or to go ahead and spend the money on a new for for say the yoshi or the big gun?

01 400EX pretty much stock, but still brand new

[BornOnFire]

I have heard that a header pipe will not do much for a stock setup unless you are doing some major engine mods. Like a big bore kit or a hot cam. Otherwise, a slip-on will suit you just fine.

aftermarket headers are bigger then stock headers, this means less backpressure, which means less bottom end, i wouldnt do it, first get the silencer that makes the most improvement and by the company of pipes your buy (yoshi, white bros, fmf, ect.) they are either made for like low/mid or mid/top. some are adjustable between the both

[knighttime]

I put on the header pipe listed below before i did the engine mods and noticed a big difference throughout the entire rpm range. :cool:

[Dave400ex]

Yeah I have heard the Powerbomb helps even on a Stock Motor. If you are planning to Mod the Motor someday I would just go ahead and get the Full Pipe. Plus some Companies only Sell the Full Pipe or just the Silencer.

[eldoexrider01]

i appreciate the info guys! but i was wondering if i got the new FMF Ti4 and a powerbong can i still put a cam and valve springs and also maybe a 416 kit and still have proper exaust flow for the engine.? i also see that rico runs the powerbong and has a very modified engine. any info will be very appreciated.

i would first get the silencer, get a cam, 416, then if you want the
powerbomb header

[ChadEXer]

Everyone knows my opinion and of course i say keep the stock header and get you a good slip on. Im going to be running the stock header on the biggest bore made for a 400EX and thats because the guy building my motor is one of the best builders in the country and he said that is best so thats what i will do! Save that $200 on a headpipe!! look at FMFs dyno for the Powerbong, it clearly shows that there is hardly any gain over the stock,,,its 1 maybe 1 1/2 peak hp over the stock which also hits after power has already began to drop off!! there are a few people on here who will argue for days about this with me but you asked for opinions and this is mine!!!!
If you absolutely feel you need a full system,,get the Sparks system,,my friend took off his powerbong_Big Gun pipe and put it on and he likes it much better!!

[knighttime]

aftermarket header pipe will make your machine run better. Just don't do something stupid and get your stock pipe ceramic coated. It's a waste of money. :D


:eek:

[tprender]

The stock head pipe with the weld cuts will give you almost a full 1 hp increrase. The FMF is only giving 1 to 1 1/2 hp increase. Save the $200 and buy something else.

Originally posted by tprender
The stock head pipe with the weld cuts will give you almost a full 1 hp increrase.

:rolleyes: please include dynochart pics for this,,we see the FMF gives a 2 HP gain in it's chart. :blah

And I'll bet the pig farm grinding out the header welds doesn't even come close to the power gains givin to a stock or built motor that the powerbong does.. THese powebong vs. stocker pissen contests are startin to get fun...:D :D

[tprender]

This is what I got back from the man with the dyno when I asked him if he did any testing with the welds cut out.

Yes I have done the test you mentioned. Cutting out the welds alone is good for a 3/4 HP. The reason that you do not get more of a gain is that there are bigger problems with the stock head pipe that hold it back.

[knighttime]

Originally posted by tprender
Yes I have done the test you mentioned. Cutting out the welds alone is good for a 3/4 HP. The reason that you do not get more of a gain is that there are bigger problems with the stock head pipe that hold it back.

Thats why we are saying to trash the stock pipe and put an aftermarket pipe if u want torque and horsepower and can afford it.

Also, who is this mysterious man with a dyno, because anyone with enough money to buy one, wouldn't be wastin' his time using a freakin dremel tool to grind out welds in a f'n stock header pipe.

:macho

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by tprender
The stock head pipe with the weld cuts will give you almost a full 1 hp increrase. The FMF is only giving 1 to 1 1/2 hp increase. Save the $200 and buy something else.
Amen my brother:D Dont waste your $200 on a powerbong:D
Take part of that $200 and get you a real bong:D

[knighttime]

are the dyno charts? and make sure u dont waste money on gettin your stock pipe ceramic coated, lmao :D

[Scott]

So why is ceramic coating a waste of money?

[knighttime]

chadex, lol :eek:

:huh

Originally posted by ChadEXer


Take part of that $200 and get you a real bong:D

I think you guys already did that by the amount of poo poo your talkin...:eek: :D

[Scott]

So why is ceramic coating a waste of money Chad?

.

Originally posted by Rico


I think you guys already did that by the amount of poo poo your talkin...:eek: :D

If it's not worth $200 how is a TC racing pipe which is as big as a 16oz beer can worth $320.:huh

[Scott]

And the TC is nothing more than a 4" supertrapp that's had 5" cut off the length. Look at them, the still have the 'Trapp emblem on the side of them.

[knighttime]

racing is way overpriced and thats a joke how he sells the pipes.

[ChadEXer]

Its OK people, we know TC is the best engine builder in the country,,,no need to bash him!! his motors dont win the nationals just about every time because he is wasting everyones money with his "overpriced" equipment!!
TC has the best prices of ALL the engine builders,,,and i know because i talked to them all!! Ask anyone else who has shopped around!!
TC has a flow bench and has been building motors before most of you were ****tin your pants, I asked him if the powerbong would be of benefit to me and he said no! ill trust him before i do anybody else!!!
Look at the dyno,,,thats 1,, MAYBE 1 1/2 HP peak(and also notice thats the PB header and the Q muffler, not just the PB header) and it starts once the power has began to drop off!!! Sorry guys, I will save my $200:huh

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by Scott
So why is ceramic coating a waste of money Chad?
Knighttime is just saying that to mess with me,,,usually it would piss me off but were friends now so its funny!!:D
i tried to tell him I had my stock header ceramic coated for FREE anyway!!
This is what he is talkin about!!

[PsychoDave]

like rico said...this is getting fun.......
i got an aftermarket head pipe....i lost a little on the bottom end...but boy did i gain power on the top end!!!!

[Lurch]

I had the header on my Mojave Jet Coated. It looks trick!!

http://www.racewebcreations.com/images/IM000261.jpg

Originally posted by ChadEXer
Take part of that $200 and get you a real bong

Yea what he said.

But share some with Chad and get him to sell ya that nice coated stk header and keep the bottom end torque till you do enough portinl, polishin, cammin, valvin and the other stuff that will allow the engine to crank out the hp in the mid and top.

Chad you looking to get rid of that stk header pipe?

[FullBore52]

I also dont see how TC's silencer can cost $320? Its like $10 worth of aluminum, and you have to cut your stock parts to use it. Yes, we all know that TC is the greatest builder in the country, for the 80th time :rolleyes: Oh yeah, not only TC has a flowbench...so does my hometown little engine builder who did mine...

My Builder (http://www.fletchtrick.com)

[MX MadMann]

TC is the greatest engine builder in the country?? then how can shane hitt ( sparks motor ) win at TT's all the time when holeshot is dang near everything?? oh yeah , jermey jones ( CHAMP ) runs a sparks motor as well. if you think 320 bux isnt over priced for an allumium dixie cup , your out of your mind. i may be wrong about this but oh well , sounds dumb to me.

PS - why exactally is he the greatest engine builder of all time?

[Scott]

I wasn't bashing on TC, I was only pointing out what TC's "pipe" actually is. A cut down 4" 'Trapp with an open endcap. I HAVE a 4" supertrapp. I also have a TC endcap that I'm going to try out. I didn't comment on his prices, engine building skills or anything else.

If I were going to send my engine out to someone to be rebuilt (which I'm not) I would take a serious look into having TC do it. Actually, I'd buy TC's parts and do it myself, but you get my point.

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by MX MadMann
TC is the greatest engine builder in the country?? then how can shane hitt ( sparks motor ) win at TT's all the time when holeshot is dang near everything?? oh yeah , jermey jones ( CHAMP ) runs a sparks motor as well. if you think 320 bux isnt over priced for an allumium dixie cup , your out of your mind. i may be wrong about this but oh well , sounds dumb to me.

PS - why exactally is he the greatest engine builder of all time?
uh lets see,,,,,,maybe because TC doesnt build any TT motors:rolleyes: TC builds motors for Doug Gust, Dana Creech and guys like that, mostly XC and MX guys, however i think Dana races TT sometimes too but im not sure! If Im wrong on this let me know guys

Yeah dana races TT he has 3 separate quads all setup different. Tom builds motors for just about anything,,,but right now the 2 stroke's are the main motors winning TT's and that's were curtis sparks shines,,he's a 2 stroke builder more than 4 stroke if ya ask me but he still makes some mean arse thumpers too.. I consider both equal..

[ChadEXer]

Rico is right. I definately respect Sparks!!! Tom is mainly a 4 stroke builder, it even says it in his ads!!! Sparks can build a helluva thumper too though!!!

[knighttime]

Originally posted by ChadEXer
Its OK people, we know TC is the best engine builder in the country,,,no need to bash him!!

LMAO, Chad u must be in love with TC, cause if he had my engine for 5 months and I still didn't have it back yet, I'd be pi$$ed.

[ChadEXer]

He has had my motor for 3 months!!! You can expect a wait like that with any big name engine builder!! Even though it does really suck!!!!

[knighttime]

Originally posted by ChadEXer
He has had my motor for 3 months!!! You can expect a wait like that with any big name engine builder!! Even though it does really suck!!!!

I wouldnt expect to wait that long from any engine builder. Your engine won't take long at all to do. He should have had u in his schedule and had u send the engine to him just before he was ready to work on it. :eek:

Don't make excuses for your (boy)friend tc, lol.

:square

[tprender]

Both sparks and TC are great engine builders. I got to be up close and personal with both of them last year and see there work. Sparks power value is a very good. But in TT the setup of the quad is even more. The year before Jeremiah was good at TT's, but over the winter he got with Shane Hitt and Shane showed Jeremiah how to set up a quad for TT's. On the TT track the 2-stroke is a better quad. Farr uses a 2-stroke on TT's and the 4-stroke on the MX track.
TC is a very good 4-stroke builder. He is a 1 man operation, and he is very much into helping out the racers. I don't know how many people Sparks has in his shop. If you can get a good builder to get your engine back in less than 2 months during the winter that is fast. Go an order a frame and wait a year or more. Alot of the parts for quads are very over priced, a good example of this is the Roll foot pegs, just to name one. Some of the quailty is bad, like most of the DG junk that don't line up. TC could get your engine done faster but it would not be done good, just done. I better stop.

[Holty]

.....a header pipe will lose you some low end torque with a stock motor, and will give you a little on the top end. on a stock motor, my opinion is just get a slip on. on a modded motor get a full system.

Actually i just remembered, somebody already posted that earlier....nevermind

[Scott]

Except on a 300 Holty. The headpipe on it is undersized from the factory and changing the headpipe (even if you put the factory muffler back on sans the baffle) you'll pick up some bottom end. I did it, as did several others I know.

[knighttime]

I dont understand how these people come up with this losing lower end with a better header pipe. They have no dyno charts or any proof except that they say they heard if from someone else. :huh

[MX MadMann]

my motor is stock , and i have the big bore X-6 Sparks exhaust. i felt more power everywhere , it is hard to keep the front end down in 2nd gear and 1st gear is a joke. i usually get the tires spinnin in a 2nd gear donut , and right as it start to straighten out , ill hit 3rd , wheelie it and take off. i could never do it as easy before i got the pipe. maby im smoking crack but oh well. stabbing the gas in 2nd gear results in an uncontrollably quick wheelie now that i have exhaust , jets , and a filter.

[Scott]

I could see how some of the guys would say that increasing the diameter of the headpipe would take away some low end torque by reducing the backpressure, because as I understand it reducing backpressure typically benefits the top end, not the bottom. Other than that, dunno. I know what I've experienced with the 300ex, but since I've never owned a 400...

Originally posted by tprender
Alot of the parts for quads are very over priced, a good example of this is the Roll foot pegs, just to name one.

Amen brother,,,I'll just leave it at that. Most of you know my opinion on this matter..:devil :devil

I added my FMF header pipe with a stock motor and yes I lost some bottom end...But after rejetting the carb that problem went away,,sounds like everybody that lost some bottom end,,needs to go to carb jetting 101 class. I also understand the backpressure issue,,but that was not the case with me and my powerbong..:D I'm putting flowmasters on the 416 this winter,,do you guys think that they will help????

[Scott]

Every truck/car I've ever owned I've opened up the exhaust to reduce the "restricting exhaust". Now i guess I just carried it over to the quad...

[Dave400ex]

Come on Guys. The TC Pipe is a little much, I know because I bought one, but EVERYTHING for Quads is. Frames, A-Arms, Stems, Swingarms, and more. A Frame does not have anywhere close to $2,400 bucks of metal or that much Labor. I know it is hard to build one, but they should be $1,500 at the most. A-Arms should be around $320 or less. You Guys racing know everything is Expensive. Heck Quad Shocks are more then most Trucks and Cars Shocks. Why? Are they better then Truck/Car Shocks? I wouldn`t think so. It`s because we will Pay $900 for a set of PEP ZPS Shocks. I agree that Tom is one of the Best in the Country. I would say Sparks is the Best 2 Stroke and Tom is the Best 4 Stroke. My Brother has Tom`s MX Motor on his 250r and it is Awesome, but I`m sure there is Faster. I bet a Sparks is, but the Sparks are also Powervalves. It`s your choice on what you want to do. If you think $320 for TC`s Pipe is nuts, then don`t buy it, get a FMF or something. I think Lonestar`s $700+ for A-Arms is nuts and I will never by any Lonestar stuff. I like Tom and will by his Motor Parts. I have to agree that Tom is cheaper on just about everything but his Pipe, and he will take the time and explain everything to you which I like.

[Maryland 400EX]

Okay, give the me the story on pipes... Why is everybody claiming that their pipe added a considerable amount of power when the test in the March '01 magazine stated that on the 400EX "ONLY ONE PIPE MADE MORE HP THAN STOCK." I believe that pipe was the Big Gun. What gives? Is the noise fooling these folks into thinking that they're actually kicking ***?

[knighttime]

Hey man, u are confused. The only way an aftermarket pipe wouldn't make more power than stock is if the carb wasnt rejetted after it was installed.

[Jay300ex]

Originally posted by Scott
Except on a 300 Holty. The headpipe on it is undersized from the factory and changing the headpipe (even if you put the factory muffler back on sans the baffle) you'll pick up some bottom end. I did it, as did several others I know.

Ok this caught my eye, My mechanic told me that a new head pipe might do some good for my 300? I have a WB slip on right now with the stock header, I plan to not do any engine work to this engine so should I or should I not invest in a new bigger header, and which for the 300ex? I dont know which ones are the best!

Jay

[Scott]

On a 300ex, you will get an improvement with a larger headpipe. Check out the aftermarket pipes. Many of them automatically come with a new headpipe when you try to get one for a 300. As for which headpipe, that's up to you. There's basically two styles. The first one makes a tight bend as it exits the engine and goes between the engine and vertical frame rail. I think the SuperTrapp headpipes were like this, and they were also a 2 piece headpipe, plus the muffler. The other style goes around the vertical frame rail. I have a DG heapipe and it's the latter style, and is one piece back to the muffler. I don't know if there is an advantage to either one, because both make a 180 degree bend at some point, so I'm not sure there's much difference in flow.

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by WarriorMan
Come on Guys. The TC Pipe is a little much, I know because I bought one, but EVERYTHING for Quads is. Frames, A-Arms, Stems, Swingarms, and more. A Frame does not have anywhere close to $2,400 bucks of metal or that much Labor. I know it is hard to build one, but they should be $1,500 at the most. A-Arms should be around $320 or less. You Guys racing know everything is Expensive. Heck Quad Shocks are more then most Trucks and Cars Shocks. Why? Are they better then Truck/Car Shocks? I wouldn`t think so. It`s because we will Pay $900 for a set of PEP ZPS Shocks. I agree that Tom is one of the Best in the Country. I would say Sparks is the Best 2 Stroke and Tom is the Best 4 Stroke. My Brother has Tom`s MX Motor on his 250r and it is Awesome, but I`m sure there is Faster. I bet a Sparks is, but the Sparks are also Powervalves. It`s your choice on what you want to do. If you think $320 for TC`s Pipe is nuts, then don`t buy it, get a FMF or something. I think Lonestar`s $700+ for A-Arms is nuts and I will never by any Lonestar stuff. I like Tom and will by his Motor Parts. I have to agree that Tom is cheaper on just about everything but his Pipe, and he will take the time and explain everything to you which I like. You were right on the dot my friend!!:)

[knighttime]

what?

[Dave400ex]

Thank You Chad. I was just trying to stop all the Flaming.

Okay, give the me the story on pipes... Why is everybody claiming that their pipe added a considerable amount of power when the test in the March '01 magazine stated that on the 400EX "ONLY ONE PIPE MADE MORE HP THAN STOCK." I believe that pipe was the Big Gun. What gives? Is the noise fooling these folks into thinking that they're actually kicking ***?

You may have something there .........

If you look at most dyno charts what you see is a small peak hp increase. I dont think this is what we feel in our seat of the pants tests. What we can feel when riding is the boost in lower rpm hp and torque (I dont know why they dont give us the torque numbers) and the improved power band.

If its a good pipe you should get a flatter power band and increased rpm (be able to make more hp where the stocker falls off) The pipes that give the top hp may not always be the better pipe, you need to think how the dyno will relate real life useage.

But your right about the noise thing, I had someone take my 440 for a short spin and he has a stock 400 w/ very loud T4 jetting and K&N. He said he liked it but "his stock 400 just sounds faster" so go figure.