why isnt the 250r produced anymore?

[thrasher_ex]

why isnt the 250r produced anymore, and why cant pros race them?

2 stroke is about to be banned (emissions) and for same reason they really is no class for them anymore... everything has gone pretty much 4 stroke..

Sad aint it? :)

I will never ride a thumper and enjoy it :)

PS you can still get a 250R brand new from Service Honda.

[thrasher_ex]

yes 2 strokes are coming to an end because of emissions, but in the 80's they werent worried about quad emissions, so that didnt have anything to do with the end of producing them did it.....??

[kwatts400]

No, it had alot to do with the amount of lawsuits against Honda.

[zedicus00]

if the amount of tech-money that was thrown at 4-strokes, was thrown at 2-strokes instead, we would hav clean running 2-strokes.

honestly if it comes to it i think it would be fairly easy to convert an R, or banshee (any water cooled 2 stroke) to run on strait gas. and still hav quite good reliability.

ive been pndering this for about 2 yrs now and hav several ideas that could make it possible.

anyone wanna make an investment for prototyping??

[thomps6s]

So you are going to make a 4 stroke? LOL J/P man.

[zedicus00]

heck no, actually i KNOW it could be done easily if u wanted to run a leaded race gas. but converting to straight pumpgas would be more dificult.

[velocityatv]

what would be the point of "leaded gas" in a 2-stroke? Lead is used in race fuel to help with the cooling of the valves. The last I checked a 2-stroke didn't have valves. A 2-stroke needs to be mixed with oil to lubricate the crank and piston pin bearings.

On the subject, in 89 Honda was slapped with a lawsuit and VOLUNTARILY stopped production of there racer line of atv's (250R) for ten years. Therefore the birth of 400ex came in 99.

The pro's no longer race them because the top class now is not the PRO A class anymore. It is the PRO PRODUCTION class. This class requires the chassis and motor to be no more than 450cc and be stock geometry (among other things) The reason this is now the big class to race for the pros is because the backing from the manufacturers. The factories get to show off there stuff in this class. When it used to be the opposite, the aftermarkets were battling it out on who could make better stuff. For the pros like Far, Gust, Ballance, Ellis, Natalie Jr, and Byrd you race were the money is. Plain and simple.

[wilkin250r]

In the late 80's, quads were painted as evil, dangerous machines. Killers. There were enormous amounts of lawsuits against ALL companies, not just Honda. That's why all high-performance quads dropped off the face of the earth. Suzuki LT250 and LT500, Kawasaki Tecate-4, and Honda 250r. Only Yamaha had the guts to stay in the ring.

I'm not sure of any official court order or binding voluntary agreement about a 10-yr ban, but that's what ended up happening. The 400EX was the first new high-performance model to hit the showroom floors in 10 years, and the it kept going from there with new models coming from all manufacturers.

The EPA has tightened restrictions on emissions, and the old 2-strokes just can't pass. The pros CAN race a 250r, just not in the most popular classes like pro-production. New rules for these classes state the quad must be currently manufactured, and the 250r is not.

[zedicus00]

actually 2-stroke engines love lead. it helds them run cooler and also aids in lubing.

i realise 2 strokes need the oil in the fuel to lube the bearings ect. that was one of the problems i had to over come in desiging a 2 stroke to run withought premix fuel. (and how i figured out lead was a good thing)

as far as the bans on 2-strokes. there was a volantary 10 yr sees production that honda went through on "sports atv's" other brands folowed suite to not get sued.

when they started producing sports quads again 2-strokes had been givin a bad wrap by idiots (environmentalist, conservatives, anyone who doesnt like the atv sport) peeple claim 2 strokes are noisy, pull the baffle out of a 2-stoke and a 4 stroke then tell me which one is louder.

so the manufactures went 4-stroke to avoid potential problems with the comon 'man' (idiot).

yes the epa emisions rules are part of the problem but like i said if 2-strokes had the R&d and money dump into research tha 4-strokes did they would pass emisions now too.

[bwamos]

^^ is correct.

I still think it's funny that a 2-stroke dirtbike is completely fine.. but put 2 more wheels on it and it's a sin against nature, lol.

I'd love to see a 330cc 2-rotor 3-5lb supercharged water-cooled EFI rotary engine in an atv.

Power and light weight of a 2-stroke (should have about 65hp at the crank). Light supercharge would give the torque of a 4-stroke, and 1/2 the emmissions of either one. Not to mention it would run like a V-6 and have a very low center of gravity. ;)

[zedicus00]

thas an awsome idea, actually turbos would be a good way to go too but loosing alot of low end power and making a rev happy rocket would keep it out of any 'play' type aplications., actually i believe a 2 stroke could be produce and be more efficient than a 4 stroke. but im trying to avoid going to valving of any type on the exhaust side and thats where most of its efficiency is being lost. im thinking about either an electronick exhaust valve or some sort of cone/inverted reed on the exhaust side to bring back some effiency and loose as lil low end power as possible.

[bwamos]

Originally posted by zedicus00
thas an awsome idea, actually turbos would be a good way to go too

Reason I think supercharger would be better is for the bottom end. A supercharger has it's boost the entire time.. a turbo gets it's boost after reving up the turbine.

Also the supercharger doesnt need an intercooler and it's a lot lighter to boot. And all around a simpler design. You could belt it directly off of the crankshaft as part of the engine casing past the stator. Perfect place to use Multi-port fuel injection and get ATV's into the 1990's, lol.

Basically a Turbo would be better for drags & TT. But a Super would be better for MX/XC/rec. riding. But I doubt any conventional forced induction would be legal in racing. So you'd most likley have to runa 2lb boost electric duct fan supercharger to make it comp legal.

[zedicus00]

im tring to keep the engine simple meaning no on board battery, keep it carbed, and lightweight. if at all possible. ive thought about direct fuel injection and with that a super would be a good idea. u could get a monster amount of power compared to a 4-stroke.

ive also tossed around the idea of making a environment friendly 2-stroke oil out of like vegatable oil, saddly though. im no chemist.

i would like to design a very simple kick start no battery working clean 2 stroke then let u modders run with it.

[wilkin250r]

I don't think turbos or superchargers are really necessary. Why 330cc supercharged, when 500cc would give you the same power?

I'm wondering if the same direct-injection technology currently being used on outboard motors could be adapted to ATV use?

[AtvMxRider]

Originally posted by DierWolf
PS you can still get a 250R brand new from Service Honda.

They are not the same.

[hollywood250r]

Originally posted by DierWolf
PS you can still get a 250R brand new from Service Honda.

That is not a 250R! Lets not bring down the name. That is just a 400ex with a CR250 motor!