Riders Union - it's about time!!

[philsan]

Check it out and spread the word!!!
www.atvaridersunion.com

[Vtr_Racing]

Its a good idea if you want a bigger voice in how things are done for you. Many people complain but downt do anything about it. Its a good thing for safety and for having a say in how the tracks are set up etc........

[450r51]

thats what the atva is for!!!

[tprender]

The ATVA already has something like this in place for rules. Each area of the US is divided into district by the AMA. Each district elects an atv person. That person then is on the rule commintee and able to make rule changes for the rule book come Oct of every year. All that you have to do is to find out who is your atv person for your distrcit and tell them what you want or suggestions and they will see what can be done about it. I have been the atv person for Mo and southern Ill for the last 14 years.
Just for your info, if you have a rule that you would like changed or added to I/we need that info by the 1st of Aug.

[Pappy]

tprender

do you know if anyone has suggested updating the AMA or ATVA rules regarding youth rider age? A good deal of the local tracks and series still follow the rule of "Under 16 years of age, no rider on any atv larger then 70cc displacement"

When these series are contacted, they simply refer us back to the AMA rules and shut us out of races. When informed the GNCC's series runs 90cc atv's they act like they have never heard of it.

[tprender]

If you check the ATA/ATVA rulebook the ages have been changed. We started doing this about 4-5 years ago. What you have are some old school people. Remember that the manufactories still have to go by the CPSC numbers and these promoters are still using the old numbers. We did lower some of the youth ages an sizes. We would like to lower the 16 age for larger machines, but I don't think that can be done at the present time. The ATVA does have the 13-15 class where they can ride the 200/300cc quads. But again, only a few promoters read the atv section for classes.
I have a local fair race that sets the age at 18+. I have tried to get them to have 70 and 90 classes and lower the age to 16 for years with no luck. I think that they looked at the Polaris ages.
Some outlaw series, for example the 6/12 hr, have a 13-15 class for full size quads.

[Pappy]

Thanks, I kind of figured it was changed, but i was not 100% sure.


and i agree, some of the small rae promotors are missing the boat.

[NEPA250R]

If anybody read Jeremy McGrath's book, a union for the bike guys was in the making years ago, and it really freaked out the AMA and the promoters (namely supercross). I believe the riders were (and probably still are) very upset with very small race purses compared to the very large income of the promoters. Of course, the bikes were still much more popular then than quads are now, and there was much more money involved. Does anybody think there will be any negative effects by forming a union? What would racers do if they don't get what they want, strike and not race? Do promoters (local/regional especially) care enough about ATV racers to hear what a union has to offer? I am definately not against a riders union, but I think a lot of issues would have to be worked out before a union can be effective.

[smr]

our sport is just now starting to grow and get national attention. now is not the time for a union.

[Bill Fuller]

Is there ever a time for a union:huh Unions suck

[philsan]

I glad to hear people expressing themselves on this subject. I do ask one thing and that is to post these on the union forum also. There's no doubt that the ATVA and promoters are watching how things develop. So at least they may understand that they aren't delivering the product that many paying people want.
www.atvaridersunion.com

[smr]

Originally posted by Bill Fuller
Is there ever a time for a union:huh Unions suck

I agree look what they did to the coal ind. They are close to doing the same thing to the auto ind.

[philsan]

Yea man, unions do suck! It's because of them that we have to work 40 hours a week and get paid overtime to work extra. That's f***ed up. The greedy pigs also have the nerve to get health insurance for workers. Who do they think they are? And lets not forget pensions. Who are they to decide that we might need some type of decent income in our retirement! That's what social security is for! lol As far as the racing industry is concerned I don't know if it's needed there or not, but one thing is for sure there's growing anger at the way some things are being run. If one does come to be it'll be the promoters and ATVA's own fault!

[450r51]

unions suck, they have ruined buffalo look what they did to the city, that was one of the biggest in the world.

[Vtr_Racing]

There is strength in numbers. If you think that the promotors are doing a good job for you, than no need to complain. There are many ways that riders/racers can get together to better their sport.

[philsan]

Lots of new information on the site www.atvaridersunion.com

[Out_Sider]

Unions are for douschbags man.. the freak shiit up :huh

[philsan]

Good point. Very well thought out. Thank you.

[Bill Fuller]

Go away dude,nobody cares about this union crap.If I was a betting man I would probably say you are in a union yourself at your job.Am I right??A union would cause our sport to loose all credability.

[smr]

I think he is just trying to get hits on his web page..thats what this is all about. Thats why he keeps posting the link.

[philsan]

I was told I would get this type of response on this forum. Have you looked at the site lately? John Natalie did, he thinks it can work. Now, do like your subtitle says and "don't be hatin' " And, Yes, I am a "Unionman".

[Bill Fuller]

No I haven't looked at the site.I have better things to do.As I predicted you are a union boy.And if there is one thing I be hating it's a UNION.Tell me one good thing the unions have done for the American worker in the last 20 yrs???Keep on paying your dues like a good little B*tch,maybe next year you can get a raise,or better medical.And people wonder why jobs go overseas.:rolleyes:

[philsan]

Good things. Well, there's good pay, retirement, medical insurance. Don't forget they are the ones that got the work week to 40 hrs instead of over 60. Jobs are going overseas because of NAFTA and businesses taking advantage of cheap labor. Have another shot and beer, you gotta long day of work ahead of you tomorrow. And don't forget that you can get up off your knees, they're not allowed to whip you anymore.

[450r51]

easy philsan no need to wet your panties.

[philsan]

Oohh Kay

[humboldt hills]

Its pretty simple.
People that work for people, want life to be perfect and fair. But not by their own efforts. It has to be handed to them.
People that want to live the American dream go out and start up businesses or open riding facilities, etc., on their own time under the conditions that everyone has to live by. Its called work.
The idea of a union is great, to bad it just doesn't work out that way. To many hands in the cookie jar.
Unions are destoying this country, whether you admit it or not.
Where I am from, if you don't like your job, you leave, and find another one. If that doesn't work you sit down and formulate a plan to go to college and do something you want to do. I have started several small businesses, the thought that someone else out of the clear blue sky, deciding for me what they think is right and I can't say anything about it, well that is just rediculous!
And I am sorry , but this is about the sillyest thing I have heard.

[philsan]

Dude, I merely put the suggestion out there and am spreading the word online. If one does start it'll becoming from the riders not some organization pushing it. I also don't understand how the analogy to labor unions is being made. Racing has nothing to do with work. Duh. I'll leave ya'll alone.

[Bill Fuller]

Just like a brain washed union whipping boy.You didn't name a thing that was done in the last 20,I'll go on a limb and say 40 yrs.And all the things the "union"got for you is why American companys can't afford the American workers expectations of what a good paying job is.NAFTA didn't send your jobs to someone else(country)the American worker did.A union is a union in my book,labor or just a combined focus of people towards the goals they want.



See Ya,hopefully thats the end of this useless thread.:rolleyes:

[smr]

by

[bradley300]

seems to me if there was only one promoter for the gnc's, things would get better. look at the gncc's. one promotor and although they do a few things people dont like, it is the best run series you will find.

the trouble is, from what i saw on ******** you guys want better medical services at the races, closer to big cities (where enuff land for a mx park is scarce) larger purses and for all that you want to pay a smaller entry fee. sorry, but things do cost money. i totaly understand the better trained medical staff, but this stuff cost money, not to mention, if you dont let your promotor make money, they wont give you a series to race in anyway

[atvtrailrider]

I hate Unions. There has got to be a better sloution than a Union.


:rolleyes:

[BuB400]

Hey Fuller, I can just imagine what you do for a living seeing that your so anti-union. You must be some fat cat in a high up office cookin the books for yourself while all the workin men are just making ends meet. And the workin man is the one MAKING the company money. Unions do have their pros and cons,but so does everything else nowadays.

Originally posted by bradley300
seems to me if there was only one promoter for the gnc's, things would get better. look at the gncc's. one promotor and although they do a few things people dont like, it is the best run series you will find.

the trouble is, from what i saw on ******** you guys want better medical services at the races, closer to big cities (where enuff land for a mx park is scarce) larger purses and for all that you want to pay a smaller entry fee. sorry, but things do cost money. i totaly understand the better trained medical staff, but this stuff cost money, not to mention, if you dont let your promotor make money, they wont give you a series to race in anyway

Yes things do cost money and i dont think too many people would complain about how much the entry is but when you have a 751 entry list at unidilla which was gnc last event and i think over 650 at london, ky i think the promotors are making money. The Problem is at london there was no ambulence on site at the race the ran three races while a rider sat there with a broken femer. any other track i have been to or seen stops races if a rider is down and they wait for another ambulence to show to continue racing but when there isnt one there that is a problem. What I am trying to get at is that the Entries are there from the individuals in the sport so having a larger purse or proper medical staff doesnt seem to unrealistic to me!
They expect over 1000 entries at loretta's this weekend and i will be there to pay my $35 gate fee as a spectator that everyone pays that helps the promotor pay to use the track.

[fasterthanyouex]

Originally posted by tprender
for example the 6/12 hr, have a 13-15 class for full size quads.
If any has any information on upcoming races that a 15 yr old could run a 400ex would be appreciated. I am not a big fan of the racing rule but i cant change it and next year in june i will be able to race all races. Thanks if u have any inforamtion for me...Also Sorry for hikacking the thread

[Bill Fuller]

Originally posted by BuB400
Hey Fuller, I can just imagine what you do for a living seeing that your so anti-union. You must be some fat cat in a high up office cookin the books for yourself while all the workin men are just making ends meet. And the workin man is the one MAKING the company money. Unions do have their pros and cons,but so does everything else nowadays. You got some of that right,I am fat:D I am a working man myself,I got all my salary on my own.I choose my own healthcare.If I don't like whats going on at the company I'm at,I quit and find a better job.SInce I figure you are probably a union boy also,tell me some of the good things the union has done for you recently.And as far as an ambulance on site I agree 110%.But you don't need a union for that.

[smr]

Originally posted by BuB400
Hey Fuller, I can just imagine what you do for a living seeing that your so anti-union. You must be some fat cat in a high up office cookin the books for yourself while all the workin men are just making ends meet. And the workin man is the one MAKING the company money. Unions do have their pros and cons,but so does everything else nowadays.

actually Bill is a pimp and he doesn't want his girls to unionize.:blah:

[bradley300]

Originally posted by smr
actually Bill is a pimp and he doesn't want his girls to unionize.:blah:
lmgdao

[atvtrailrider]

fasterthanyouex,

You need to find a NON ATVA/AMA sanctioned race series. At 15 you are limited to a 300ex at ATVA events where they have that class. There are many series around the US that will allow you to race your 400EX.

The age and cc rules in ATVA are definetly a problem BUT we don't need a Unioun to address it.

[hawiianpwr]

Unionizing is the best they they could do. I'm glad to see they are taking the next step.

Its funny listening to you guys bashing it because if it wasnt for Unions we wouldnt have the 40 hour work week, 8 hour day, overtime and pensions. That is why we are one of the strongest nations because equality of the people.

If you dont think so just look overseas WHERE they Big COMPANIES are sending the jobs! Those countries have no have no regulation on age, or pay, or retirement. Yet they work upwards of 12-16 hour a day and are lucky for $10 a day.

Is that FAIR?

Just another question. What Organizations are you members in? ATVA, NRA, Your local state Rec. organization? Think about it. Why do we have them? They are there to help get our voices out and help fight for rights of that certain organization. The more members the STRONGER your voice. RIGHT? And you pay a yearly membership fee(dues) to help keep it going. RIGHT? So before you start bad mouthing unions better look at the bigger picture on how much they help not just our sport but millions of people to protect there rights and wellbeing.


Hope that helps,:D

[hawiianpwr]

Hey Mr. Fuller you asked what the Union has done for me? I'll try to keep it short.

I'll give you a good example. My friend and I were both going into the electrical trade right after highschool. I went union and he went nonununion.

Our local has a 5 yr apprentice program where I work full time and go to school at night 2 time a week 3 hours a night. So I got a full time job, learning on the job, already working with a contractor and not not having to pay the expense of school.

He on the other hand had to go to school full time for 3 yrs, all book work, no on the job training what so ever. And had put pay alot of money for the schooling. and after all said and done had to look for a job.

Right now hes bouncing job to job still trying to find a job that pays decent. Me on the other hand Just turned out this year still working with the same contractor, everythings going great, I work with great guys that really know the trade, I get great pay, great benefits... I couldn't ask for anything better.

If you have any questions just ask,


:)

[Bill Fuller]

Arguing about how good the onion is is like telling a kid that candy is bad for them.The"big companies"are haveing to send the jobs overseas because they can't afford to pay the lazy American worker the high wages they demand.I already can't stand sending my money to the ATVA,when was the last time you heard about the AMA getting us anything???The only people that you will hear defending the union is people that are sucked into it by the high wages and the benefits.Time will tell if your industry can handle whats coming.

[hawiianpwr]

Bill what do you do for a living?

[shep]

Originally posted by Bill Fuller
Just like a brain washed union whipping boy.You didn't name a thing that was done in the last 20,I'll go on a limb and say 40 yrs.And all the things the "union"got for you is why American companys can't afford the American workers expectations of what a good paying job is.NAFTA didn't send your jobs to someone else(country)the American worker did.A union is a union in my book,labor or just a combined focus of people towards the goals they want.



See Ya,hopefully thats the end of this useless thread.:rolleyes: :bandit: your prolly a guy who makes 10 bucks an hour and has no insurence, and is just pissed cuz Ky. is a right to work state!!! I am a union boy and proud to be!! .................As far as a unionizing ATV riding thats going a little to far, but theres no need to down the people that are in unions, in most union citys thats the only way constuction workers can have a good wage,med-ins,retirment ,and 401 k programs!!! dont hate the guys workin ,hate the Reps
!!!

[hawiianpwr]

^WORD!:)


Hey shep what local are you part of if you dint mind me asking?
I'm in The I.B.E.W #22 Omaha, NE

[Bill Fuller]

I live in Tennessee wich is also a right to work state.I have been in the telecom industry for about 6 yrs.I make 40K a yr.have good medical benefits,401K,retirement plan and a decent job.I bet you 2 homos were the same boys who had to have mom come to the bus stop or dad call the principle to stop someone like me from taking your lunch money.I EARNED every penny I make,I started in this industry making $8.00.I can't imagine someone telling me to stop feeding my family or stop paying my mortgage cause were striking for better insurance or 5% raise.If I need better benefits or more money I go find a better job,if that means moving my family to get that than whatever.


Again I ask either one of you dickbumpers to tell me what the union has done in the last 20yrs,other than take your money.

[bradley300]

where i work, the union was voted out 10 years ago by the union members becasue all the union was doing was creating animosity between the workers and "the man", lol. i have been working there for three years, make 18 dollars an hour, awesome medical benefits and a 401 (k) that made my own parents jealous. my grandpa that was a union contract negotiater looked at my benifits package and said there was no need for a union where i work. we are also the only non union plant in PPG industries, and the only PPG plant that has never had and kind of a lay off of full time employees

[shep]

hawianpwr im in St.Luise 1795 carpenters!!................... Mr fuller ,I beg you please stop haveing sex with your sister pull your head out of the cows asss, and look around !!! Unions made the 40 hour work week ,banned child laber in our great nation,are the reason you get time and a half for overtime,and making jokes about people is funny ,just make sure you move outa your moms basement before you start on real people!!!! sperm burper!!!

[hawiianpwr]

Just to be fair i'll tell you what I do. I am an inside wireman which I can do anything from your data work to high voltage work. Our pay depends on where we live of course. But up here in Nebraska our scale right now is 27.00/hour + plus our benifets puts us at about 34.00 hour. And this is the Minimun they can pay, they can pay you more if they want! About the dues, the little dues that we pay All go toward the union in making it stronger. It is a non-profit organization.

Just to compare non-union shops in my area a journeyman makes about 18.00/hour + contractor will MATCH whatever you put in your 401k

The union isnt just about pay like all you guys bring up. The biggest thing I like are the guys you work around. You get to work aroung guys that actually want to be there because they also took the oath in getting in. Its nice you dont get the kid just looking for a temp. job or just doesnt what to be there which in our trade with working with the voltages we do can be dangerous if they dont know what there doing.

Also Bill you talked about picking up and moving if you wanting to. Well in my union you CAN and its easier than you could ever do! Having my licence I to go anywhere in the US or Canada where I'd like to work and sign in at that local Union and start working right away out of that union making THEIR SCALE! I dont know about you but that sounds pretty easy huh!

Power by numbers! I'd like to see you go up to your boss and ask for a raise.

And about you stealling lunch money, never had lunch money stole away from me, but it is pretty SAD that you were one of those losers that did and that you actually admit it.

:)

Have I given you enough reasons? Or do you want more. This is fun :p

[smr]

Bill may not want more but I do....you guys keep it up and us fellers down south will end up with all the good jobs.

You see as long as yall keep dragging on those union coat tails then the good jobs will keep moving south. I don't know what the unemployment rate is in your area but it is less than 4% here. Thats because jobs keep moving south to get out away from the unions...Please vote union yes so my son will have a good job when he grows up.

And before you ask....I am an electrican...hell I even have a card that says I'm bonefied by the state of Ky...but it ain't no union card.

[BuB400]

I,m not to worried about jobs moving south. Prime example. Snap-On tools were located here in Kenosha,moved down south for cheaper help. I did some work on the factory before it closed. They were'nt down south for a year and they told us they were regretting the move. Lets not turn this into a north/south or Union debate. Lets face it the working man is getting boned no matter where the hell he is or if he's union or not. But I got to say some of these opinons sound like a crap salesman with a mouth full of samples.

[hawiianpwr]

I agree with you BUB. Sorry to sound like a salesman but I feel very strongly about the union and when someone who doesn't know crap about it and starts throwing false statments I kind of take offense to that. Your completely right in that everyone is getting hosed on the deal. The fact is the companies are very powerful and greedy.
When a company can close a plant here in the US and send it over and make it for a 1/10 of the price BUT still ship it back over and sell it for the exact same price it was selling before. WHOS GETTING HOSED?

[bradley300]

Originally posted by philsan
Good things. Well, there's good pay, retirement, medical insurance. Don't forget they are the ones that got the work week to 40 hrs instead of over 60. Jobs are going overseas because of NAFTA and businesses taking advantage of cheap labor. Have another shot and beer, you gotta long day of work ahead of you tomorrow. And don't forget that you can get up off your knees, they're not allowed to whip you anymore.


i will say unions have done good things, but they had there time and place and they are over

[TheJaspMan]

You bring up an interesting statement.

Here is a clip from a textbook on the history on unionized labor:

"For the past forty years there has been a steady decline in both union membership and influence. There are several reasons for such a decline, the first having to do with employers keeping their businesses union-free. Some were active in their opposition and even hired consultants to devise legal strategies to combat unions. Other employers put workers on the management team by appointing them to the board of directors or establishing profit-sharing plans to reward employees.

The second reason for union decline is that new additions to the labor force have traditionally had little loyalty to organized labor. Because more and more women and teenagers are working and their incomes tend to be a family's second income, they have a proclivity towards accepting lower wages, thus defeating the purpose of organized labor.

The third and possibly the most important reason for the decline in unions is that they are victims of their own success. Unions raised their wages substantially above the wages paid to nonunion workers. Therefore, many union-made products have become so expensive that sales were lost to less expensive foreign competitors and nonunion producers. This resulted in companies having to cut back on production, which caused some workers to lose their jobs, and hence, unions some of their members.

Also, the recent shift in this country towards technology and service has made our economy less reliant in the types of industrial jobs that tended to be union strongholds. Today's worker tends to more highly educated and tends to the professional, white coller class. All of these have conspired to decrease union membership."

[Pappy]

arent union folks usually long term? the life span of an atv racer is pretty short compared to say a plumber's career. i doubt any benefit would become of a union.

[quadrcr161]

when Brit started the site,and brought up the idea, i dont think he meant anything like a workers union but a group of the riders to voice their opinion to the promotors. to keep this sport for the racers and to keep it growing in a way to be better for the racers and not the promoters pocket book. i just read on ******** that the promoters wanted to take away the banquet and move it to Vegas, they also fired Banger in the middle of the season and although the new announcers try, it just not the same. Also REM-n-s productions were kicked out and now there is no one covering the season on video and it all started after they defended Natalie. im not saying that they didnt have a valid reason behind this but they are not telling the riders the truth. this sport is growing so rapid that if we dont do anything the promoters will turn it into a 3 ring circus.

edited.

[Pappy]

from what i heard the announcer was removed because he wouldnt conform to what the promotors wanted, you dont do what your boss tells you, you get the boot.

as far as remns, i wont comment on the reasons why they got canned, but i can assure you that there is a company filming the events or so ive been informed.


these are private organaztions and can pretty much make things happen for whatever reason they chose. with almost 1000 riders at lorettas, i honestly dont think the promotors are having any trouble finding riders to fill the gate in any classes and even if 5% of the riders dropped out it wouldnt make a hill of beans difference.

just my opinion, like it or not.

[wilkin250r]

Are riders terribly mistreated? I can't see it. So why exactly do they need to form a union?

I don't know about the larger circuits, like GNCC and GNC, but I've been a little involved in some smaller circuits. I can tell you that promotors are NOT making huge amounts of money. The pay does not equal the amount of work they need to put into it. Many of them can't even afford to hire staff, they rely on volunteers.

Why do you think promoters look for sponsers? Because entry fees and attendence don't cover the full costs.

And now, we want a union to negotiate larger purses and lower entry fees? To make up the difference, promotors will need to charge higher prices for attendence. This sport doesn't recieve a lot of attention as it is. For crying out loud, women's 9-ball pool recieves more television coverage than ATV racing, and now we want to kill attendance by shooting ticket prices through the roof?

The sport is doing just fine, riders are not mistreated, there's no need for a riders union.