Can we admit it?

[ajp]

Fellow Honda lovers,

Just checked out the news with Yamaha and as much as I hate to admit it, Yamaha seems to be cutting edge with their atvs. I don't know about quality (as I have never owned one), but I'd say they are leading the industry with quad innovations. That new Raptor 700cc with fuel injection is just another example. I hate to admit it, but I don't know how much longer I'll be owning a Honda. I have a 400ex and it is a dinosaur compared to the quads out there now.

[wilkin250r]

And what if Honda came out with something new, something better than the Yamaha? Would you then say that Yamaha was "leading" for a whopping 2 years?

There are exciting things happening in the sport right now, but this new trend is still in it's infancy. Yes, it looks like Yamaha is leading the charge, the YFZ is a great quad, and the fuel injection is a big step (Cannondale didn't stick around long enough to be a major contender).

However, I still think it's a little early to declare a "winner". Everybody thought the Raptor looked real good on it's debut, but that's not the opinion anymore.

[hotrodbelair]

the new raptor aint realy inovative the fuel injection is already on some utility atvs and cannondales and atks have them on there quads and cannondale and atk already have the aluminum chassis. as for the raptor im waiting till next year its almost certain there is gonna be some problems with the 06 since its there first year trying the fuel injection

[Ridin' Jesse]

Originally posted by ajp
Fellow Honda lovers,

Just checked out the news with Yamaha and as much as I hate to admit it, Yamaha seems to be cutting edge with their atvs. I don't know about quality (as I have never owned one), but I'd say they are leading the industry with quad innovations. That new Raptor 700cc with fuel injection is just another example. I hate to admit it, but I don't know how much longer I'll be owning a Honda. I have a 400ex and it is a dinosaur compared to the quads out there now.

Ok wow Yamahaha came out with their newest updated quads now..honda will probably have theirs in Sept. GIVE IT TIME..quit being impatient..honda is probably deveoping a better quad then any as we speak

[hotrodbelair]

exactly i know the 400ex is outdated but its still a fun quad to ride it started the 400 4 strokes

[enduro400rider]

honda is so slow coming out with new sport quads. they should start reproducing the 250R and design a quad with an XR650 motor in it. they need to come out with somthin big

[hotrodbelair]

honda probaly would if they could reproduce the 250 but the tree huggers are complaining of how much two strokes are polluting the air. like yamaha how there gonna stop making the banshee and the blaster after this year. that would be cool if honda would come up with big cc sport quad

[deathman53]

because honda had years to remake the 250r, they never will, nor did anybody at honda even seious think about it, in 1998 the degcree was over and honda made the 400ex, then they sat back on there ***, as far as atv's are concerned, in the next few years the 450 four strokes got good. honda saw all the 450's being put in aftermarket 250r chassis, and yamaha beat them to produce the first models. Honda come out with the trx 450, because yamaha had one. Point blank ever since the trike days honda is afraid to make a new exciting powerfull atv and they are joining the bandwagon after everyubody else, not leading like they did in the trike and 250r days and when it collapses getting all the flack.
Honda learned from the past the trx90 is a great example of that, almost every other youth quad is electric start, honda keeps the pull start as in theory,if a kid can't start the bike, he can't ride it, any small kid can push a button, not all can pull the cord to start it. you notice the trx450 is a kick start, this limits people who can actaully start the bike to riding it. Honda has 4 years to make a competition to the raptor, they won't, as anything will have too much power for the lawyers at honda. Its not honda that is limiting the quads and not releasing the big bores, efi and such, its the lawyers that are afraid of the general public and how when they get hurt, a lawyer visits them in the hopital and a lawsuit is in process before they leave the hospital.

[bradley300]

at the begining of this year, i would have agreed with the first post. every mag and every forum said the 450r didnt handle well and wasnt fast. then all of a sudden, they totally dominate mx (which was supposed to be what the yfz was better at) and are showing up more and more in the gncc's

Originally posted by wilkin250r
And what if Honda came out with something new, something better than the Yamaha? Would you then say that Yamaha was "leading" for a whopping 2 years?

There are exciting things happening in the sport right now, but this new trend is still in it's infancy. Yes, it looks like Yamaha is leading the charge, the YFZ is a great quad, and the fuel injection is a big step (Cannondale didn't stick around long enough to be a major contender).

However, I still think it's a little early to declare a "winner". Everybody thought the Raptor looked real good on it's debut, but that's not the opinion anymore.

if yamaha had only been leading for 2 years i guess you are saying that honda lead b4 that with there 400, but b4 the 400 you was leading, and dont say honda there onle sport quad was the 300 and the 250r was outa prodution for like 10 years. also i think its just the begining yamaha has been leadin the dirt bike industry for like the last 12 years so unless honda does come out with soming thats as fast as the yfz or even close to the new raptor yamaha is faaaaaaaaar in the lead.

bump

[Quadman250R]

what does bump mean??? on another note......in a few years this big bad 700 will all of a sudden be no good and be a dinosaur, at least thats how everyone thinks...if it isnt new it isnt good. except for the 250r's

[zlam27]

when people want to "bump" a thread back to the top of the forum they will post "bump" or "TTT (to the top)".

i think honda spends more time in the automotive dept. and other recreational areas so they dont get as much time dedicated to the ATV sector. yamaha has some great sport quads out right now, but their quality in previous years hasnt been up to par with honda.

"yamahas are for those too impatient to wait for the new honda":devil:

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by yzfmxer
if yamaha had only been leading for 2 years i guess you are saying that honda lead b4 that with there 400, but b4 the 400 you was leading, and dont say honda there onle sport quad was the 300 and the 250r was outa prodution for like 10 years.

Honda was by far in the lead. Nobody was making anything. The Warrior plain sucked, you can't even call that thing a "high performance" quad. Nearly the same with the banshee, although very fast, almost completely un-raceable.

Honda was leading with the 250r, even though it was not in production, that's still what everybody was racing. To further strengthen this, Honda was the first to come out with a "high performance" 4-stroke.

Both the Banshee and the Raptor (the Yammi attempts at the top spot) have tragic flaws in suspension and handling.

[BushManRebel]

I must send congrats to the Honda PPL here for being able to admit...the first step to recovery. :D

i agree that the 250r was a much better mx quad than anything thaat yamaha was offering at the time, but honda wasnt offering anything. during the 250r p;roduction years were the only times honda was in the lead. yeah the blaster banshee and warrior arent uch to brag about, but neither is just a 300ex

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by deathman53
Honda come out with the trx 450, because yamaha had one. Point blank ever since the trike days honda is afraid to make a new exciting powerfull atv and they are joining the bandwagon after everyubody else, not leading like they did in the trike and 250r days and when it collapses getting all the flack.

incase you didnt know bro...the honda 450r was in R&D long before the yfz 450 was thought of...Thats what ive heard...and somehow thru a leak in the honda corp. yamaha found out about it and slapped together a quad to get out there before honda

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
incase you didnt know bro...the honda 450r was in R&D long before the yfz 450 was thought of...Thats what ive heard...and somehow thru a leak in the honda corp. yamaha found out about it and slapped together a quad to get out there before honda you hear this from your aunts best friends son?

[TCracin440ex]

nope...jesus told me...but jesus heard his info from moses.....who got his info from barney the purple dinosaur, who got his from fred flinstones cousin that works in the honda R&D

most likely, yam had been planning there quad after they came out with the yz426, honda didnt even have there crf450 out yet

[TCracin440ex]

umm seriously doubt that bro

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
umm seriously doubt that bro so prove him wrong

[fast_enough]

IMO the new raptor 700 will be like the 660, 1rst year or 2 every1 will be amazed w/ it and then realize the crappy handling and performance, and yea the fuel injection going to be a problem, theres always something for a first year yamaha, now look at the hondas did they have ne first year problems, nope. unless yamaha puts a motor on their quad that came off 1 of their bikes then they r goin to have problems, they dont fine-tune them like honda does

whats there to screw up with fuel injectors, has your car ever had a problem, and this is half of the reason yamaha is ahead of honda they are way more inovative, go back to before they even made quads, they were the first to do a mono shock, a power valve, liquid cooling, putting more than 2 valves on a 4-stroke, any litle neat feature on your bike was pioneered by yamaha, if it wasnt for them coming out with the yz400f you wouldnt even have the 450r, probably none of the z, or kfx's either, he!! if they didnt invent the mono shock you might not have ever had a true sport quad

[Warnerade]

cool

i know

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by yzfmxer
whats there to screw up with fuel injectors, has your car ever had a problem, and this is half of the reason yamaha is ahead of honda they are way more inovative, go back to before they even made quads, they were the first to do a mono shock, a power valve, liquid cooling, putting more than 2 valves on a 4-stroke, any litle neat feature on your bike was pioneered by yamaha, if it wasnt for them coming out with the yz400f you wouldnt even have the 450r, probably none of the z, or kfx's either, he!! if they didnt invent the mono shock you might not have ever had a true sport quad

whoa somebody has their head up their A S S.....you like yamaha wayy too much....dont give yamaha credit where credit aint due...yamaha still had a pos 2 valve warrior when honda had the 400ex with 4 valves....yamaha aint the pioneer of it all....

maybe not in quads they didnt but they sue did in street bike, which is why honda is still useing there crappy 4 valve and yamaha is useing 5 :D, i guess i do need to give honda a lttle more credit though, because i would buy there 300 over the warrior any day, and the 250r was pretty sweet

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by fast_enough
IMO the new raptor 700 will be like the 660, 1rst year or 2 every1 will be amazed w/ it and then realize the crappy handling and performance, and yea the fuel injection going to be a problem, theres always something for a first year yamaha, now look at the hondas did they have ne first year problems, nope. unless yamaha puts a motor on their quad that came off 1 of their bikes then they r goin to have problems, they dont fine-tune them like honda does

I doubt the Raptor will have troubles with the fuel injection considering Yamaha has been using injection for awhile with their street bikes.

As for the Honda's having problems their first year, remember the crisis when there were so many 450R frames cracking? Remember when the 99-00' 400ex's had bad intake boots where the carb would pop off easily?

Every company will have it's problems that they overlook, but overall they both are great for actually attempting to contribute to this sport. I think everyone should stop worrying about this and that and just ride. Honda and Yamaha are both awesome, I've owned both and loved both and am completely unbiased to either.

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by yzfmxer
maybe not in quads they didnt but they sue did in street bike, which is why honda is still useing there crappy 4 valve and yamaha is useing 5 :D, i guess i do need to give honda a lttle more credit though, because i would buy there 300 over the warrior any day, and the 250r was pretty sweet

the way they have their 5 valves crammed in their heads there is no more room for bigger valves....honda is still whoopin A SS with their 4 valves...so dont say 5 is always better than 4

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
the way they have their 5 valves crammed in their heads there is no more room for bigger valves
uhhh yeah there is, at least there was for chad reed

[TCracin440ex]

bull shyt...get off your yamaha HIGH...im talking quads here...you are in a total different ball park bro....

im pretty sure the yfz and yzf 450 heads are the same so i dont see why you couldnt do it on a quad, chill out dude i said in an earlier post im not biased to yamaha its just thay they have a better operation right now

[TCracin440ex]

your so damn dumb...yes the yfz 450 and yzf 450 heads are the same....but those damn vales are stuffed in that head....ask any engine builder...those valves are soo close together...you cant do much valve wise

they aint the "industry leader" like your making yamaha out to be...and to me the way you are defending yamaha that you are biased to him...

man the reason i got all the yamaha stuff is because i got a yz250f, but i also have a 300ex which i love, hondas great and all but yamaha is just more innovative, dude, chill out

[TCracin440ex]

im chilled out....but yamaha aint more innovative...yamaha just slaps shyt together and puts it out for the public....idk bout that new raptor aint nobody got enough of them to hear any bad news....but the 01 raptor...dud, the yfz 450...hell i dont even think they beefed up the tranny to accomidate the extra wheel and weight it will be turning

[Warnerade]

i dont recall ever hearing about the yfz's having a tranny problem...so why did you even bother to bring that into your arguement?

[Rich250RRacer]

Originally posted by yzfmxer
if yamaha had only been leading for 2 years i guess you are saying that honda lead b4 that with there 400, but b4 the 400 you was leading, and dont say honda there onle sport quad was the 300 and the 250r was outa prodution for like 10 years. also i think its just the begining yamaha has been leadin the dirt bike industry for like the last 12 years so unless honda does come out with soming thats as fast as the yfz or even close to the new raptor yamaha is faaaaaaaaar in the lead.

Yamaha leading the dirt bike industry? The YZ400F and 426 were Yamaha's crown jewels and were all the rage, until the CRF came out. The CRF450 has been a better bike every year since, hands down! I bet getting beat in the market they created really frosts some balls at Yamaha.

okay they got one model that is better, then who has the secound best 450, yamaha, who has the best 250, yeah suzuki has every one ther, but yamaha is a close secoun, then who have the best 250f, yamaha, unless the ktm actualy becomes available, and lastly who has the best 125 yamaha, they are all around the leader, been that way for awhile

[Toadz400]

Who cares?!:rolleyes:

[drider]

well, well. you might say , or can say yamaha. Is better. More technological. All that. But think about it. What bikes were used.Before the 450s came out for racing HONDA 250R's. Ok. My theory why honda hasn't came out with there new 450R or big block 600cc+ Honda, has there own way. Too busy making $$$ on there automobiles. Generators. Motorcycles. INdy racing cars. etc. But think about it. Look. 04 hondas came with LED brake lights. honda 250r style. swing arm. Look there comes yamaha. Dilaing in there yfz 450. Suspension. 06 finally catch on there LED brake light. they did a similar 250r style swing arm. So ... !! honda not that bad..

ohhh in no way am i saying honda is bad at all, noooooo i love them, i just wanted to point out a few thingsthat yamaha contributed to

[hondajoe05]

well you kids are jus going crazy do most people need more than a 400 and the answer is NO honda is being smart so some little rich boys that think they no wat their doing doesn't get out and kill em self i don't think i would need ne thing bigger than a 450R maybe


yes you guys are gonan disagree with me but do i care NOPE cuz its jus my opuion that people don't need more than 450 cuz you can bore your bike and ect. to makes it almost just as fast

and i no the rich boys that would by honda and not no wat their doing would get the smae stuff done but then they couldn't sue honda for them dieing cuz they had mods

:blah: ya i don't care if your thinking im stupid:blah:

[TCracin440ex]

no one cares...no one is putting yamaha down...but boy you were giving them credit for inventions and such that they didnt have anything to do with...

and nacs, i did hear of some of the yfz having tranny problems....and i kno a few had electrical issues...so dont had me that bs like it was a flawless quad

and far as the 250f dirtbike i dont think yamaha has the best 250f...i was reading somewhere in a d/b mag that the best overall 125cc 2stroke/250cc 4 stroke went to honda and their crf 250

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by hondajoe05
well you kids are jus going crazy do most people need more than a 400 and the answer is NO honda is being smart so some little rich boys that think they no wat their doing doesn't get out and kill em self i don't think i would need ne thing bigger than a 450R maybe


yes you guys are gonan disagree with me but do i care NOPE cuz its jus my opuion that people don't need more than 450 cuz you can bore your bike and ect. to makes it almost just as fast

and i no the rich boys that would by honda and not no wat their doing would get the smae stuff done but then they couldn't sue honda for them dieing cuz they had mods

:blah: ya i don't care if your thinking im stupid:blah:

Agreed...

[4everhonda]

Originally posted by Toadz400
Who cares?!:rolleyes:


I second that!!

[wilkin250r]

I will say that Yamaha has been more innovative, but that hasn't always been a good thing. They come up with a terrific idea, and then botch the implementation. It's like they are missing the entire "development" side of their R&D department.

The RD350 engine into a quad frame was brilliant. However, the frame and geometry absolutely suck. Great idea, poor implementation.

The Raptor was a beast, huge displacement, lots of torque. Poor tranny at first, and the wheelbase is still terrible.

Honda doesn't have any flaws. True, they're not the most powerful in stock form, but they don't have any major design issues.

Let's face it, the YFZ450 is the first thing Yamaha hasn't screwed up.

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I will say that Yamaha has been more innovative, but that hasn't always been a good thing. They come up with a terrific idea, and then botch the implementation. It's like they are missing the entire "development" side of their R&D department.

The RD350 engine into a quad frame was brilliant. However, the frame and geometry absolutely suck. Great idea, poor implementation.

The Raptor was a beast, huge displacement, lots of torque. Poor tranny at first, and the wheelbase is still terrible.

Honda doesn't have any flaws. True, they're not the most powerful in stock form, but they don't have any major design issues.

Let's face it, the YFZ450 is the first thing Yamaha hasn't screwed up.

i dont think it was a RD350...i think it was RZ350....not sure...yes the invention of the banshee was brilliant...

[sampleez]

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
the way they have their 5 valves crammed in their heads there is no more room for bigger valves....honda is still whoopin A SS with their 4 valves...so dont say 5 is always better than 4

you can put oversize valves in a yfz. but most people don't need em anyway....well, except for the ol' 4 valvers :p

and why is it you have such a vendetta against yamaha? someone sick of getting smoked by yfz's :confused:

and fyi, i'm not yammi baised...i have had 4 honda quads. i got a yfz cause it's the best quad for my needs....oh yeah, and the honda's ugly :devil:

and don't forget...... http://www.yfztech.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bluefaster.png

[sampleez]

Originally posted by drider
well, well. you might say , or can say yamaha. Is better. More technological. All that. But think about it. What bikes were used.Before the 450s came out for racing HONDA 250R's. Ok. My theory why honda hasn't came out with there new 450R or big block 600cc+ Honda, has there own way. Too busy making $$$ on there automobiles. Generators. Motorcycles. INdy racing cars. etc. But think about it. Look. 04 hondas came with LED brake lights. honda 250r style. swing arm. Look there comes yamaha. Dilaing in there yfz 450. Suspension. 06 finally catch on there LED brake light. they did a similar 250r style swing arm. So ... !! honda not that bad..

this is funny. who fu(king cares about a led tail light?? for anyone that races(these are race quads btw), the brakelight is about the first thing to come off.

and the yfz didn't have an round housing swingarm till this year because it was a patented idea.

thank you sampleez yeah honda had there moments like the chain adjuster and the one peice rear fender/seat, but seriuosly whats that compared to fuel injection

[0VER LAND 450R]

whos winning all the races

[hotrodbelair]

the people riding the quads

[0VER LAND 450R]

haha but seriusly

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by sampleez
you can put oversize valves in a yfz. but most people don't need em anyway....well, except for the ol' 4 valvers :p

and why is it you have such a vendetta against yamaha? someone sick of getting smoked by yfz's :confused:

and fyi, i'm not yammi baised...i have had 4 honda quads. i got a yfz cause it's the best quad for my needs....oh yeah, and the honda's ugly :devil:

and don't forget...... http://www.yfztech.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/bluefaster.png

i dotn have a vendetta against yamaha....but for somebody to give them credit where credit aint due...imma say something about it...

[sampleez]

i guess you're talking about the pro's in the GNC series? do you seriously think that matters?? if so, you don't know jack$hit about this sport. all of the guys in the top 10 in points would be there no matter what brand they ride. look at the points from last year. it's pretty much all the same people. and natalie got 2nd last year. he said that he's in a lot better shape this year than he was last year, so it makes sence that he won this year

but seriously, when either of these bikes have 20+g's in them, it's all up to the rider. and obviously natalie is the best rider this year, as gust was last year.

and btw, a yamaha is winning the GNCC series, and is tied for first in the flat-track nationals.

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by sampleez
i guess you're talking about the pro's in the GNC series? do you seriously think that matters?? if so, you don't know jack$hit about this sport. all of the guys in the top 10 in points would be there no matter what brand they ride. look at the points from last year. it's pretty much all the same people. and natalie got 2nd last year. he said that he's in a lot better shape this year than he was last year, so it makes sence that he won this year

but seriously, when either of these bikes have 20+g's in them, it's all up to the rider. and obviously natalie is the best rider this year, as gust was last year.

and btw, a yamaha is winning the GNCC series, and is tied for first in the flat-track nationals.

im not sayin yamaha is bad...yes the yfz 450 is a good quad, yes its the rider more so than the quad...no im not talking about racing, im talking about that kid giving yamaha credit where credit aint due...

[sampleez]

that wan't directed at your posts. what "under_water" :p said

[TCracin440ex]

oh i thought u were talking to me....sorry bro

im not sayin yamaha is bad or anything tho...you just dont give credit where credit aint due...that would be like giving bill clinton credit for the invetion of the computer or the internet...

there was some things yamaha did great for the atv/dirtbike industry and there was some things that yamaha put out like we just coulda went without....cough cough...THE RAPTOR

r u just poed that honda doesnt have a bigbore or do you truly think the raptor is a piece

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by yzfmxer
r u just poed that honda doesnt have a bigbore or do you truly think the raptor is a piece

i dont care what honda does and what honda dont have...im happy with my 400ex...and im glad they have a 450r that is winning races regardless of the rider....i dont like the raptors handling....ive rode my buddies...they have some balls for drag racing....but they shoulda made a yfz 450 long time ago before they ever made that damn raptor because all that motor aint needed if it dont handle wortha damn

[nacs400ex]

Well if it's anything like the raptor, its going to be top heavy and not wide enough. Poor suspension design.

You can easily have some engine mods in a older machine and it will compete easily with the "NEW" raptor fuel injection. If I recall Cannondale developed the EFI first in the quad world. It's nothing that new, see how well there attempt holds up.

However I do believe Yamaha had a big success with the YFZ. But neither 4-strokes are for me, I'll stick with what I prefer.

[bigvforcer]

First of the 700 Raptor cannot be sold right now to anyone. BACKORDERED FUEL PUMP BECAUSE OF A SERVICE BULLETIN. I mean come on, you just released it and things are already breaking or broke down.

We all know every manufacturer has its problems but yamaha's goes a little further than other. Raptor tranny's and starter clutches that still aren't fixed, problems with the rhino and the rear pinion gear(if you add bigger tires you risk destroying the rear engine pinion gear, which causes total destruction of the motor). Yamaha has a tendency to rush release quads and bikes. Two seat recalls on some of their street bikes.

Someone referred to street bikes. I believe suzuki is kicking *** in almost every cc range. Someone also said without the yz400 their may not be a kfx or z400. The DRZ400 came out almost the same year the yz400 if not before that.

Honda products have a reputation for reliability and good overall production. Yamha slacks. I will admit yamaha looks to have the market by the tail but there are other manufacturers out there. With suzuki and kaw soon to be releasing their respective models and KTM and polaris teaming up the coming years look to be a lot of fun!!!!

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
i dont think it was a RD350...i think it was RZ350....not sure...

Yes and no. The RZ350 was the liquid-cooled version of the RD350, along with a few other changes, but the same basic design. The RZ had powervalves, but I don't believe the RD did.

[sampleez]

Originally posted by bigvforcer
First of the 700 Raptor cannot be sold right now to anyone. BACKORDERED FUEL PUMP BECAUSE OF A SERVICE BULLETIN. I mean come on, you just released it and things are already breaking or broke down.


"rappy cannot be sold right now" wrong....i know of several people that have rode them, and someone on here's buddy has one. and how does a backordered part make the quad broken? sounds more like a delay to me.

and i've heard the 700 rappy handles pretty good. they have the yfz's aarms, a wider axle, and lower center of gravity.

a you said something about recalls. honda's had several recalls too in the past years

i haven't really delt with many yamaha quads, and i agree with yall that the old raptor, warrior, blaster, banshee weren't on the same level of quality as the honda bikes.

but i think yamaha has really stepped up their r&D in the past few years, cause pretty much all the issues people had with the 04 yfz, are fixed now. thicker seat, taller stem, electrical issues, decompression plug, swingarm(stronger in 05, eccentric in 06), and SEVERAL more that i can't think of. i think there are supposed to be around 80 improvements in the 06 over the 05.

and btw, i haven't had any probs with my bike, and it's prolly got 50 hours on it, mainly riding mx.

[bigvforcer]

Our dealership is sitting on two right now because we cannot sell them until we get the backordered fuel pump in. No expected release date either!

[2muchquad]

well like 250r said"every brand will have their share of problems".you guys have wasted prcious time and energy fighting over whos the innovator.it really doesnt matter what you ride,just have fun.thats why we all do it correct?besides the epa and tree huggers dont like atvs PERIOD,regardless of what brand you ride.its always been a "monkey see monkey due" with new technology.if im not mistaken SUZUKI had the first high perf 2stroke quad back in 1985,the quadracer.then came the 250r in 86 then kawi jumped on the bandwagon with the tecate 4.imsure theres a 1000cc utility quad on somebodys drawing board as we speak:)

[Punk'd]

Honda isnt going to just give in boys.. Just wait

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Yes and no. The RZ350 was the liquid-cooled version of the RD350, along with a few other changes, but the same basic design. The RZ had powervalves, but I don't believe the RD did.

thanks for clearin that up for me, ive always heard it called the rz 350 i didnt kno there was an RD 350

[fast_enough]

bigvforcer where do u work? S&S Marine & Cycle? I'm jus wonderin i live real close to you Down by Scottsburg, we should go riding some time

[Scro]

Originally posted by sampleez
i guess you're talking about the pro's in the GNC series? do you seriously think that matters?? if so, you don't know jack$hit about this sport. all of the guys in the top 10 in points would be there no matter what brand they ride. look at the points from last year. it's pretty much all the same people. and natalie got 2nd last year. he said that he's in a lot better shape this year than he was last year, so it makes sence that he won this year

but seriously, when either of these bikes have 20+g's in them, it's all up to the rider. and obviously natalie is the best rider this year, as gust was last year.

and btw, a yamaha is winning the GNCC series, and is tied for first in the flat-track nationals.

i agree....you could probably compare quad races to NASCAR races. Every car in NASCAR is setup the same way, no matter if it is a chevy, dodge, or ford. At that level, all the pit crews or what-not, think the same and know what works the best.

[speedy400]

in my opinion, yamaha made some awesome changes, everthing everyone would change when they got the 450, they changed so they'd get it out of the box. Man what a great idea. Also raptor fuel injection!! DAMN my dad always complains about rejetting his raptor (dual carb setup is no fun). I dunno about bumping up the cc also I meen its not like its really under powered. IMO its way overpowered for just having a good time, but I guess its a good compedater for drags... what else would a rediculles amount of power be good for except for that? Hill climes? I dont know I just like screwin around, my 416 has got all the power I need.. Sorry for rambling on.-darren

[hondajoe05]

ok guys why are we argueing about honda and yamaha in my mind they are the two best atv/dirt bike makers out their we all really should be ragging on polaris i've never rode the preditor but all the other i have sucked and im srry to say i do own one but don't claim it :D


and btw no one needs bigger than a 450 ne ways so it doesn't matter:blah:

[FoxRacing81]

Since we are comparing 450rs and YFZs....


4 of my friends have 450rs. 2 have YFZ's.

3 out of the 4 450rs have problems that have been fixed or problems that make them un-rideable.

1st 450r. Cracked cases, needed new rings, 2 new valves, new cam chain, new tensioner spring, axle carrier blew out, all within about 8 months of him owning it.

2nd 450r. Cracked front shock mount, bad a arm bearings. All within abut 5 months of him owning it.

3rd 450r. Cam Chain is going out....within about 5-6months of him owning it.

4th 450r. No problems yet. Owned it about 6 months.

Now the YFZ's

1st YFZ. Hit a tree very hard, bent a arm. Small radiator line leak. All within about 1 year.

2nd YFZ. No reported problems at all. He's owned it about 6 months.


That's just my experience with these machines. Both are great. Both haul ***...but that's what have happened to them.

-Justin

[bwamos]

Aye.. reliability on both machines is really about the same.

A high performance quad will always be a lot higher maintenance than a 300ex or 350warrior, or even their dirtbike version.

The loads put on the engines are a LOT higher than the others.

Besides from the sound of it... Suzuki is going to win in the innovation race this year. Unless Honda comes up with something big.

[6858-400ex]

THE NEW 2006 RAPTOR REALLY ONLY HAS 686CC'S

[sampleez]

your point???

nearly all quads have lower cc's than their name.

i most cases, it would sound stupid if they used the exact cc # in the name......282ex, 397ex, yfz439(04 and 05), etc........

[Mad*Ex*Rider]

i think the quads are getting too powerfull they need. i yea the 400ex could use some upgrades and it only my first quad becuase im only 15 but it is still plenty of power for just trail riding or even some mx track. but unless you are going to be doing some serious racing or drag racing you dont need all that power.

its just more power than yall are used to, have any of yall ever ridden a crf450 or yz450f, they have about 10 more rear wheel hp and 200 lbs lighter and people still mod them outys, my 250f is all stock and has plenty of power

[Bill Fuller]

Why would you think the new Raptor will handle poorly?From the looks of it it looks to be an almost identicle chassis to the YFZ.Oh I'm sorry its .10in taller.