what cam to run with stroker?

[PimpC]

I have done a search and still come up confused on which cam to run with my 400ex. I have a 440 wiseco piston and powroll stroker, I plan to run a fcr 39 carb and am willing to do whatever I need to the head (not done yet also need help with this) such as oversized valves and full porting.

But I don't want a tractor like powerband because of the stroker and 11:1 piston, but I don't want a cam that I will have to rev to the moon to make any fun. I have been told not to redline strokers for extended periods of time. I was planning to run something for all around power but I am understanding from the posts on this forum that because of the stroker crank I will have a torque monster that won't rev well.

I want something that runs like a stock raptor, I want power everywhere that don't have to lug or rev. when I switched the piston for 13:1 and added a stage 2 hotcam in my brother's raptor it lost the fun factor and had to be revved way high and lost the bottom end.

any help is greatly appreciated, I just want to get it right the first time.

if have the money get the web cam and hardend rockers but if your on a budjet get a stage 2 or 3 hot cam

[ss440ex]

I know a few who liked the Web 479.

[hoser 400ex]

im runnin a hotcam stage 2 in my powroll 44o stroker!! i love the power and it pulls like crazy all the way thru the powerband

[plkmonster2]

If you can find an HRC, get it! It sounds like you want a bike that has power all over, and that is what the HRC will deliver. Also, do you have a pipe yet? If you want more power, you may look into porting. Your motor is around 460 cc right? Or is it higher? Thge stock porting does ok on a stock bike, but you need more for how big that motor is.

[wilkin250r]

You're going to want a cam that compliments your stroker. If you didn't like the high-rev cam in the Raptor, you're not going to like it in your stroker, either.

Higher compression will help the low-end. Yes, it will help the top-end, too, but it seems to benifit low-end more. Some engine builders will use a high-rev cam to increase peak horsepower, and then significantly increase compression to regain what was lost in the low-end.

I can't really point you to a specific camshaft, but it's sounding like you want an "all-around" cam, rather than an aggressive "race" cam. The race cams tend to be high-rev, which you have already stated that you don't like. The HRC, stage 1, or any other "all-around" cam is probably what you are looking for.

I'd stay away from the stage 2 or 3, or the Web 479. Have a look at the specs and compare them. As a general rule, higher duration means more top-end power and less low-end.

[cals400ex]

i dont' think a high revving cam will be best for you anyways. the bike won't want to rev really high anymore. i think a midrange cam will work good with your setup.

[Ginxd00]

I went from a stage1 to a stage2 on mine. I liked the bottom end and lugging around the stage1 gave. I had to make a a choice because I do about 50/50 harescrambles and MX the only downfall I noticed about the stafe1 was it felt flat on the top end. I went to the stage2 (new stage3) I couldnt be happier I never noticed a loss in low end and the upper rpms will pull hard and fast to the rev limiter. This winter I may try the Web 479, but for now I am happy with the stage2 which is what alot of the big bore and stroker motor owners run. This is just my $.02

[PimpC]

what about the web cam 479? that should be a better all around cam than the hot cam stage 2 correct?

[wilkin250r]

I apologize, I made a mistake. I told you to stay away from the 479, but I was thinking the 463/9i.

Now that I take a look at it, I'm thinking the 479 might be your best bet. It looks like it was designed with a stroker in mind.

Most cams have around .350 lift, but the 479 goes bigger with .378 lift. This should help that big stroker breath.

However, at 250 duration, doensn't have quite as much duration as the "race" cams, so you won't need to rev the piss out of it to get power.

[terko440]

I can confirm Wilkons last statement as I just installed my magnum cam(exact web 479 copy). I felt as though it ran like a 2 stroke with the 450/451. I now have more low end again but havent ridden it long or hard enough to tell you about the overall power throughout the power range. But it is definitely what I was looking for. I remember when my 400 was stock and that thing would come up in all the gears because of the great low end. Give the 479 a whirl. I went with the Magnum because it is a billet cam and doesnt need hardfaced rockers. Allen from CT told me I was fine to run the 450/451 cam with stock rockers and would be fine but...........well he lied, granted that was after 3 years of use but still, whatever you do, do it right the first time around.

[PimpC]

what did he lie about the powerband or having to use hardfaced rockers?

also where do you find a magnum cam?

[terko440]

He said my stock rockers would work fine since it's not a real aggressive cam. I bought my Magnum Cam from Colby at C&D Racing. 614-2508

[smorris]

Have you tryed degreeing the cam in your brothers bike?If not , or you dont know what I'm talking about then you need to check into it....You can put the power wherever you want it in the rpm range...well, to a certain extent.....It makes a huge difference
where you make power in the rpms..If it pulls really hard on the bottom and you want more revs----retard the cam timing.
If it pulls hard on top and you want more on bottom advance the cam timing.....understand?Its not magic though if you gain on top you lose some on bottom ,,likewise if you get more power on bottom then its gonna lose some on top end.It just moves the power range up or down. You have to slot the bolt holes on the cam sprocket to adjust it.Or buy an adjustable one.Ohh yeah, dont forget to check piston to valve clearance..(very important!)
When I say move the timing on the cam , its not much....
A couple of degrees moves your pwerband a lot.About a half a tooth is somewhere around 6 degrees I think...
Two or three degrees is where you need to start probably.
Try playing with it on your brothers bike first to see if you can get what you want from that cam..It really makes a big difference!
Most people just bolt em in and go.But I'm telling you , all cams are not the same..Even the same grind from the same comp.
all of em are a little different.Some are more consistent than others though.If you want a proffesional opinion call Tom Carlson of TC racing and ask him ...he'll tell you the deal.
Also the jetting may change a little when you change the cam timing.

[PimpC]

the raptorn blew up about 3 weeks after I put the cam in, It looked like one of the retainers let go and the valve fell down into the cylinder. I know exactly what you're talking about by degreeing a cam, just wanted to get something close to what I need before I spend money on it.

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by smorris
Have you tryed degreeing the cam in your brothers bike?If not , or you dont know what I'm talking about then you need to check into it....You can put the power wherever you want it in the rpm range...well, to a certain extent.....It makes a huge difference
where you make power in the rpms..If it pulls really hard on the bottom and you want more revs----retard the cam timing.
If it pulls hard on top and you want more on bottom advance the cam timing.....understand?Its not magic though if you gain on top you lose some on bottom ,,likewise if you get more power on bottom then its gonna lose some on top end.It just moves the power range up or down. You have to slot the bolt holes on the cam sprocket to adjust it.Or buy an adjustable one.Ohh yeah, dont forget to check piston to valve clearance..(very important!)
When I say move the timing on the cam , its not much....
A couple of degrees moves your pwerband a lot.About a half a tooth is somewhere around 6 degrees I think...
Two or three degrees is where you need to start probably.
Try playing with it on your brothers bike first to see if you can get what you want from that cam..It really makes a big difference!
Most people just bolt em in and go.But I'm telling you , all cams are not the same..Even the same grind from the same comp.
all of em are a little different.Some are more consistent than others though.If you want a proffesional opinion call Tom Carlson of TC racing and ask him ...he'll tell you the deal.
Also the jetting may change a little when you change the cam timing.


i have been told by engine builders that this isn't necessary. i realize what you are saying though.... it does tell you where your timing is at. the problem with these bikes is that they only have one cam. so, say you go to retard the cam. you can't just do this on the exhaust side. both intake and exhaust sides are moved. now, if you run a kfz/ltz or yfz the power curves can really change.

[smorris]

I realize they only have one cam....it still works the same..you just cant change the lobe seperation like with a dual cam engine.
Still if you move the cam timing it changes the rpm's where the power comes on dramatically.And yes most engine builders will tell you it isn't necessary.But I'll bet you my checking account that
all the pro bikes that are out there are degreed.It doesnt really matter where the timing is as long as the power comes on when you want it to.Yeah its nice to know where its at, so if you do a rebuild you can put back where it was. Over time as the timing chain wears and stretches the cam timing retards itself because of chain stretch.

[terko440]

I dont beieve it will retard itself, that's what the cam tensioner is for

[smorris]

If the chain stretches , the tensioner takes up the slack, true.
But only on one side....Trust me it does retard the cam timing if the chain streches.If you have ever torn down a four stroke with a million miles on it (just a number)anyway with a lot of hours on the engine.Look at the timing marks for the cam...They will not line up exactly.They will be off by quite a bit depending on how much the chain has stretched.You dont really notice the difference in rpms because it is very gradual over time, and besides that the motor is getting worn and probably losing power anyway .
A new timing chain will line up almost exactly on the marks every time.Unless you shave the head or run a thinner head gasket or something.In that case you will def. need to degree the cam before running!