TC Pipe and TC Racing

[330R PowerValve]

I just wanted to let you guys know about TC racing and the products that Tom Carlson offers. I recently contacted TC racing and talked with owner Tom C. and asked him a few questions about his pipe and wanted to know if it would be a better woods pipe than the Curtis Sparks pipe that I have been running for over a year now. Of course he said that his pipe was the best pipe on the market and was strong off the bottom and revved to the moon and if I wasn't satisfied that he would give me my money back . Well I paid 549.00 for his pipe and recieved it about a week and a half later (100 miles away). I put the pipe on and jetted it to his specs and tried it. I was so dissapointed. It felt like I was riding a stock bike again, but extremely loud. The bike seemed as if it lost all of its torque and acellerated like a 300ex. So, I took the pipe off and tried the sparks pipe and what a day and night difference. I called TC and told him that his pipe was terrible and asked for my money back. He said that he couldn't do that because it was used??? Then he said that there has to be something wrong with my bike??? Runs great with the Sparks pipe and jetting :confused: He said that it must have jumped time. Well he said he has been building bikes for over 20 years and if he doesn't know that if the timing is off it won't run, he's an idiot.

So i called a buddy that has a HRC 450r with the same mods/gearing and mounted the TC to his bike and jetted it. Dragged the bikes in 200 Yards the Sparks won by 25 yards. On the MX track we swithed and tried both pipes/riders and the sparks lap times were avg. 30 sec per lap better on 5 min laps.

I had 2 hours in long distance phone calls and the aggrivation of dealing with this ***** hole. He never gave me the money back or a partial refund so I sold the pipe for $300.

For all of those people who run a TC pipe and race XC and MX. I would consider a sparks or HMF. Don't sell your self short.

MY 2 cents

I almost forgot he sent me a rev box for $179(returned) and said that the pipe and the box will make it run WITH the sparks. LOL:) :)

[Jeff2269]

Thats odd. There are quite a few pros that run his engines and exhausts. I guess what he sold you and what the pros are runnin are a little bit different. :o) Thats terrible customer service though.

[roostin_dale]

ehh, i have always hated sparks, worst service ever. TC's turn around is MUCH better than sparks...and i have rode both pipes and the TC is 10x better than the sparks pipe..

[330R PowerValve]

Have you been drinking??? There were 8 guys there that race every weekend and do extremely well and all of them said the TC is terrible. Sorry buddy, just not possible. Sounds to me you just don't like sparks? Turn around??? I could have walked that 100 miles, picked it up and made it back before I received it.

Originally posted by roostin_dale
ehh, i have always hated sparks, worst service ever. TC's turn around is MUCH better than sparks...and i have rode both pipes and the TC is 10x better than the sparks pipe..

[roostin_dale]

Originally posted by 330R PowerValve
Have you been drinking??? There were 8 guys there that race every weekend and do extremely well and all of them said the TC is terrible. Sorry buddy, just not possible.

man, you had to have gotten a faulty product...ive owned many sparks and TC pipes and they have BOTH built motors for me. Sparks took 8 months and TC took less than one month. Their pipes are both great, but TC hits harder on bottom.

If you have Sparks build your motors they want to have nothing to do with you unless your one of the top 20 pro racers...

No arguing here, everyone has thier opinions and expierences, and this is mine.

[330R PowerValve]

If someone was willing to take my engine and modify it and give me a pipe, I would take it too.

Originally posted by Jeff2269
Thats odd. There are quite a few pros that run his engines and exhausts. I guess what he sold you and what the pros are runnin are a little bit different. :o) Thats terrible customer service though. ;)

[EvilJester400EX]

Stock bike but louder? I had a GYTR exhaust on my YFZ and to put it simple my arms were sore after I made the switch to the TC.

[TCracin440ex]

ok...you really must have gotten a faulty pipe, or you must have had the thing corked up because from what i know about TC and the exhaust, your bike shouldnt have ever felt like a 300ex accel. that...and yes your bike can run with timming that aint correct, just aint gonna run wortha damn...

if you like sparks then thats fine...but dont bash unless you know what your talking about and i surely would call the man an idiot because he still builds alot of the pros motors and they are running damn good....Lost creek gets their motors built by him, some of ECA gets their motors built by him...and he builds motors for nacs racing

[330R PowerValve]

TC said it was better and said he would refund my money if I wasn't happy. He failed to come trough on both of those promises. He's the one that said my timing was off, not me. He also told me there was nothing wrong with the pipe that they come off a jig. They are crf head pipes. He might be able to build a motor. I ordered a pipe. And from what we know... his pipe sucks.

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
ok...you really must have gotten a faulty pipe, or you must have had the thing corked up because from what i know about TC and the exhaust, your bike shouldnt have ever felt like a 300ex accel. that...and yes your bike can run with timming that aint correct, just aint gonna run wortha damn...

if you like sparks then thats fine...but dont bash unless you know what your talking about and i surely would call the man an idiot because he still builds alot of the pros motors and they are running damn good....Lost creek gets their motors built by him, some of ECA gets their motors built by him...and he builds motors for nacs racing

[TCracin440ex]

well lets see here....sometimes their jetting specs can be wrong....i bet you had something wrong...i bet you had the airbox lid on, or you have something wrong with that bike to make it not run with that exhaust

[TCracin440ex]

Originally posted by 330R PowerValve
He said that it must have jumped time. Well he said he has been building bikes for over 20 years and if he doesn't know that if the timing is off it won't run, he's an idiot.



yes you did call him and idiot, and yes the bike will run with incorrect timming...

[TCracin440ex]

and...let me see him tellin you he will give you your money back is just a marketing ploy....i dont think it quite works like that bro...you dont go to the dealership and buy a new car or new quad and after you get it home, ride/drive it for a little while then decide you aint happy with it and want your money back...same concept

[330R PowerValve]

Tom is 100 miles from me at the same elevation... so maybe he doesn't know how to jet a bike? Why are you saying it's me??? He gave me the jetting specs.

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
well lets see here....sometimes their jetting specs can be wrong....i bet you had something wrong...i bet you had the airbox lid on, or you have something wrong with that bike to make it not run with that exhaust

[330R PowerValve]

We put it an HRC with an air filter and lid off with Tom's recommended jetting and still no good. Not the bike... think harder

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TCracin440ex
well lets see here....sometimes their jetting specs can be wrong....i bet you had something wrong...i bet you had the airbox lid on, or you have something wrong with that bike to make it not run with that exhaust [/QUOTE

We put it an HRC with an air filter and lid off with Tom's recommended jetting and still no good. Not the bike... think harder :rolleyes:

[TCracin440ex]

let me see...were you running an aftermarket air filter, where you running with the box lid on...i think any pipe will screw up and stuff if your running a lid on and its jetted for a box with the lid off...i know if i put the box lid on my 400ex, and try to ride it yes it will feel like it has the power and accel of a trx 90

[330R PowerValve]

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
yes you did call him and idiot, and yes the bike will run with incorrect timming...
You are an idiot too I see, The bike wouldn't run good enough to even ride it if it was out of time, and why did it run awesome with the sparks pipe?

[330R PowerValve]

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
and...let me see him tellin you he will give you your money back is just a marketing ploy....i dont think it quite works like that bro...you dont go to the dealership and buy a new car or new quad and after you get it home, ride/drive it for a little while then decide you aint happy with it and want your money back...same concept
Hey he said it not me pal. If I wasn't 100% satisfied with the pipe over the sparks he would give my money back.

[TCracin440ex]

no...im not sayin anything like that...you said the bike wouldnt run at all with bad timming....i was correcting what you said...the bike will run ok with the timming off a few degrees...but its not gonna ahve that hit like it does with the timming dead on...correct me if im wrong anybody

well i dont kno then it really stumps me because that pipe is a good pipe...something must have been wrong on his end of the pipe...

[330R PowerValve]

Plain and simple.. If his pipe ran better I would be running it. I've had three pipes for the 450r and TC was not even close.

[TCracin440ex]

well i think your the first person ive ever heard say anything bad a bout TC...most people are satisfied with his pipes and couldnt ask for better...

i dont kno what coulda been wrong with the pipe...or your bike either or...but if you only lived 100 miles away thats maybe an hours drive or a lil longer...i woulda personally took my bike with the pipe up there and told him to fix it or look at it....i woulda took the sparks pipe...put hte sparks pipe on and say look runs fine...put the TC on and say look runs crappy...now can you take some time out of your busy schedule and fix this pipe for me or i demand for my money back...and i def. woulda drove 100 miles for 579.00 gone down the drain

[WOracing]

Originally posted by TCracin440ex
well i think your the first person ive ever heard say anything bad a bout TC...most people are satisfied with his pipes and couldnt ask for better...

i dont kno what coulda been wrong with the pipe...or your bike either or...but if you only lived 100 miles away thats maybe an hours drive or a lil longer...i woulda personally took my bike with the pipe up there and told him to fix it or look at it....i woulda took the sparks pipe...put hte sparks pipe on and say look runs fine...put the TC on and say look runs crappy...now can you take some time out of your busy schedule and fix this pipe for me or i demand for my money back...and i def. woulda drove 100 miles for 579.00 gone down the drain

:cool:

[hontrx265r]

I don't want to jump in on this big argument, but I have a hybrid yz based. And I was running a carbon e series it . had great power and i was quite satisfied but with my new no link i wanted a tc simply for its size and nothing else. I run no lid on the airbox and a full whitebros tapered headpipe. Now mind you this is a yz motor but they all work the same in theory, its a four stroke. I put my tc exhaust on and I couldn't choke this thing if I wanted to. Tom said to me that this shorty style exhaust with disks would honestly run like crap!!! he said worse then stock those were his words. And that it would run great with the tc end cap ( open style) I have run both and it runs great either way. I prefer it open but man I can't give this thing enough fuel it just plain rips and pulls all the fuel and air through the motor it can. these pipes are great!! And if you must know all they are is a honda 200x supertrapp pipe with a different mid section. It's really not his real design or anything he just took something old that worked and reapplied it. he is a very good motor builder and his words are simple he uses what works not what other people say is good, or bad. And I don't know anybody too ever complain about anything except the noise and I love the sound but it is a little too damn loud and the neighbors hate it. but hey #$%T emm. I'm ripping

come on...this is incredible...this guy comes on here...trys to tell everyone about his experiance, and everyone jumps in and flames him, if he said money back garuntee that means money back, and that is BS that he didnt live up to it, he is trying to tell everyone else so if they come upon this what to expect, stop flaming him he has done nothing wrong but try to express his experiance with TC racing, so let everyone jus calm down and say there opinion, instead of calling each other names and saying so and so is the best...etc :huh

[hontrx265r]

I do understand your expierence if I bought a pipe for over 500.00 bucks and hated it no matter what the pipe. I would be pissed. Fortuntly I only payed 40.00 for mine so I couldn't go wrong even if I didn't like it.. Glad your happy with your sparks They are also a great pipe and many are now using them because of the noise issue

[sgerbyshak]

Maybe you should have gotten a "CT" and not a "TC"....

[Mxracer53]

Did you rejet for both pipes? maybe on of the jets was clogged. maybe the pipe wasnt completleey tight and or not connected all the way.

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
come on...this is incredible...this guy comes on here...trys to tell everyone about his experiance, and everyone jumps in and flames him, if he said money back garuntee that means money back, and that is BS that he didnt live up to it, he is trying to tell everyone else so if they come upon this what to expect, stop flaming him he has done nothing wrong but try to express his experiance with TC racing, so let everyone jus calm down and say there opinion, instead of calling each other names and saying so and so is the best...etc :huh

you're 100% correct, dude. this guy is not making ***** up because he doesn't like TC.............he's telling exactly what happened to him. He's not bashing.........he's pissed because the TC did not stand behind their promises. I would be pissed too.

[ofsoto]

I'm still having a hard time trying to believe in this guy... I've dealt with Tom Carlson many times and NEVER had a problem with him or his products! In my own experience, his slip-on pipe for the 400EX is the BEST PIPE for the money that you can get! I would easily beat any Full Sparks Exhaust equipped machine or whatever other brand you name...! I've also tested quads (YFZ's, CRF's and TRX 450's) with both the TC and Sparks pipes the very same day and must say that they have VERY DIFFERENT jetting specs. The TC ran like crap with the Sparks jetting and same way with the Sparks with TC jetting... But the best pipe was always the TC!!

Back to this guy's case: there must be something wrong with that exact pipe you got or you don't know how to jet your quad!!! It's THAT SIMPLE!!! And if Tom didn't want to give you your money back it was probably because he didn't believe there could be such a dumbas... that couldn't make his bike run with his exhaust installed on it! All of us have!! So why can't you???!!!! :D :D

[330R PowerValve]

Originally posted by Mxracer53
Did you rejet for both pipes? maybe on of the jets was clogged. maybe the pipe wasnt completleey tight and or not connected all the way.

Come on... clogged or tight pipe... THE PIPE SUCKS!!! I am not an idiot, Ive been doing this stuff for 25years. Bottom Line there is no comparison between TC and Sparks no matter what way you look at it. WE had the TC pipe on two different bikes and it doesn't even come close. If you own a TC... sell it and get something else. Don't sell yourself short!!! Just trying to help.

[330R PowerValve]

There were several guys that rode the pipe on two differnet bikes. These guys race GNCC, AWORKS CRA and District 5. One of the guys that has a TC built 465ex stroker couldn't believe the difference between the two pipes and said if he buys a 450r the choice is clear for him(SR).

[RandRRrider]

I ran all of last year and some of this year with a Sparks pipe. I just switched to a TC last week because I needed a spark arrestor. Last Sunday, I raced with the TC and it pulled alot better coming out of the corners. Now these corners are mostly hairpins. Coming out of these corner were mostly table tops, maybe 25ft-45ft (I can't judge measurements, I just pin it). I can now clear most of them because its seems to rev quicker with the TC. Sparks does make alot of power, but it seems to pull longer. This is my experience with both. I like them both but for different reasons.

[330R PowerValve]

Originally posted by ofsoto
I'm still having a hard time trying to believe in this guy... I've dealt with Tom Carlson many times and NEVER had a problem with him or his products! In my own experience, his slip-on pipe for the 400EX is the BEST PIPE for the money that you can get! I would easily beat any Full Sparks Exhaust equipped machine or whatever other brand you name...! I've also tested quads (YFZ's, CRF's and TRX 450's) with both the TC and Sparks pipes the very same day and must say that they have VERY DIFFERENT jetting specs. The TC ran like crap with the Sparks jetting and same way with the Sparks with TC jetting... But the best pipe was always the TC!!

Back to this guy's case: there must be something wrong with that exact pipe you got or you don't know how to jet your quad!!! It's THAT SIMPLE!!! And if Tom didn't want to give you your money back it was probably because he didn't believe there could be such a dumbas ... that couldn't make his bike run with his exhaust installed on it! All of us have!! So why can't you???!!!! :D :D

Ok lets get this jetting thing stait. Tc recommened a 170 Main jet and 3.5 turns on the screw. I live 100 miles from him and the elevation is the same. "My pipes are all made off the same jig... they are all identical" said Tom C. I've been riding/racing for 20 years you dumbas and have had more bikes than you will ever own. Maybe you need to crawl out of TC ***** and face the truth. And if you rode a sparks and a TC and favored the TC.. I question your knowledge on this matter or anything that deals with atv performance.

[brink400]

Did you try any other jetting besides what he recommended you? I know I have had some people give me jetting recommendations that turned out to be worthless. I never listen to anybody when they try and tell me how to jet my bike, because you can take two indentical bikes and jet them the same and one might be a little leaner/richer then the other bike. I have had some seat time on a yfz that had a TC and it ripped. I just dont see how it could be the pipe and nothing else causing the problem, there had to be some unseen factor coming into play here.

[ofsoto]

Originally posted by 330R PowerValve
Ok lets get this jetting thing stait. Tc recommened a 170 Main jet and 3.5 turns on the screw. I live 100 miles from him and the elevation is the same. "My pipes are all made off the same jig... they are all identical" said Tom C. I've been riding/racing for 20 years you dumbas and have had more bikes than you will ever own. Maybe you need to crawl out of TC ***** and face the truth. And if you rode a sparks and a TC and favored the TC.. I question your knowledge on this matter or anything that deals with atv performance.

Hey I'm not the only one that swears over the TC pipe, just to open your eyes in this thread there are 7 posts of guys that have had a good experience with the TC pipe and prefer them over the Sparks pipe... So I guess we're not the ones crawling in sh... :D Look everywhere else and you'll find a whole lot more posts about people that RACE with TC pipes and like them!! Also, did you try jetting differently than what Tom suggested? Because EVERYONE with a little of common sense knows that elevation is NOT the only aspect that determines jetting adjustments... Atmospheric conditions like humidity and air temperature also play an important role. Not to mention that not only the main jet and air screw adjustment are what will give a proper jetting setting, you must also play with the needle position and the pilot jet!!! I don´t know if your 20 years of riding/racing in your backyard teached you that...!!! Besides, what most performance shops and exhaust manufacturers give you is a guideline on what to start with and if that doesn´t work for you, then you have start testing until you find the proper adjustment!!!
Finally, about what you said of me favoring the TC over the Sparks: it's not about knowledge but more than opinion and taste! After what you´ve posted here I don´t have a doubt about who lacks knowledge on atv skills...!!! :D :D

[RandRRrider]

I have a 165 main jet 3rd clip. I have a different needle on the FCR carb but I can't remember what it is. Like I said before, the TC and the Sparks both worked great. Just different power