Pulsecharger Exhaust

[95300exrida]

Hey i was wondering if any of you guys have tried out that new pulsecharger exhaust for the 450r?my friend has an hrc cam kit on his quad and his next step is the pulsecharger exhaust but hes wondering what kind of power gains they provide and whereabouts in the powercurve and also what they sound like.

[redlined94]

go to the pulsecharger website and they have a video with a YFZ with that system and that gives you an idea of what it sounds like. A lot of people like the PC exhaust but I just cant make myself like it lol. Go for it though I have heard really good things about them.

[TrX450rKiD]

I love my PC. BLOWS AWAY the Dr. D I had on there .. worth every penny. But, don't take my word for it, there are many others that agree. I have not heard of one disappointed cusomter.

PULSE CHARGER RIDE REPORTS (http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=6199)

There will be some people that come on here and suggest every other pipe in the book .. but your buddy WILL NOT be disappointed with the PC. ;)

[nat3060]

definatly worth every penny, i LOVE mine

[White7]

Yep Love mine also,,wouldnt have any other pipe now

[czrider263]

www.wppracing.com says that with there test that the pc and the rossier are very close both are great pipes.

[quad9]

we tryed out 4 different pipes yesterday. pulse charger, sparks,hmf, and crank it cannon.

the pulse charger pipe is very smooth, you dont have any strong points, it made good power all around .
the sparks pipe is very loud, hits hard, strong midrange-top end.
the hfm was another good all around pipe, stronger hit that the pulse charger.
the newest pipe has the crank it cannon. this is a new pipe not sure if it releasted to the retail sales yet. is was a very good strong quiet pipe. very smooth, felt like like the hmf, but just a little stronger.

the bike we tested it on was a 04 it had hrc cam, 185 main, 50 piolet, no lid. and we were runing in a open field, and on a mx track, and on trails in the woods.
all pipes were used with the head pipe that came with them.

[nat3060]

really, because my neighbor has the sparks pipe and i have the pc, and hes ridden my quad and he now wants a pc, and was saying he wish he would have waited on the sparks

[quad9]

sure i understand what he would be saying, th PC pipe is so much smoother it is better in the woods, it is much more controlable.

[cals400ex]

the PC needs a smaller mainjet

by the way, i ran a sparks pipe and i really liked how it felt. it gave noticably more power at low rpms than my rossier does.

[WOracing]

Originally posted by redlined94
go to the pulsecharger website and they have a video with a YFZ with that system and that gives you an idea of what it sounds like. A lot of people like the PC exhaust but I just cant make myself like it lol. Go for it though I have heard really good things about them.


yup, ive fallen for the RE exhaust. i think its the name pulse charger... to me it sounds weak lol:p

[wppracing]

With a mod motor( my set up without a ported head), The PC doesnt need a smaller main. I tuned the PC on the dyno with the A/F meter and showed that it needed a bigger main than what was stated. I did use the recommended jetting and it was VERY LEAN.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by cals400ex
the PC needs a smaller mainjet

by the way, i ran a sparks pipe and i really liked how it felt. it gave noticably more power at low rpms than my rossier does.

I had the sparks too. I tend to agree with you that my old sparks seemed to out tq a small bit vs. my new RE. I think sparks designed his exhaust to make up for the lack of stock tq off the showroom floor. The sparks would probally be choice for a stocker to make up for the cheezy stock 450r bottom end, but the slightest mod over stock (cam with bigger overlap)- start think'n better exhaust. Trust me, I've measured, the sparks starts to be a limiter to any engine mod made and will hold ya back compared to other systems.

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by chad502ex
I had the sparks too. I tend to agree with you that my old sparks seemed to out tq a small bit vs. my new RE. I think sparks designed his exhaust to make up for the lack of stock tq off the showroom floor. The sparks would probally be choice for a stocker to make up for the cheezy stock 450r bottom end, but the slightest mod over stock (cam with bigger overlap)- start think'n better exhaust. Trust me, I've measured, the sparks starts to be a limiter to any engine mod made and will hold ya back compared to other systems.


currently i just have a full pipe, whole hrc kit, filter, and dyna ignition. maybe when i get a piston i will feel more gains from the rossier. the rossier simply doesn't even seem to pull as hard as my sparks did in higher rpms either. it was most noticable down low though.

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by wppracing
With a mod motor( my set up without a ported head), The PC doesnt need a smaller main. I tuned the PC on the dyno with the A/F meter and showed that it needed a bigger main than what was stated. I did use the recommended jetting and it was VERY LEAN.
This is not meant as an argument or to start anything, I just want to state that right up front.

With the mod motors I've seen, the PC does in fact need a smaller main jet. Mine (13:1, HRC, FCR, ported) was way too rich with a 168, a little over 12:1 A/Fr. A 160 has it right around 13:1 now. I know of several others with varying amounts of mods and all use smaller mains than what a typical glass-pack exhaust would use. And this has been done on several different dynos.

Again, not trying to start anything, but I'm not sure that everything was right with the A/Fr meter during this tuning session that you are referring to.

Some observations:
RE pipe
main - peak hp - A/Fr
190m - 45.27 - 11.6
185m - 45.70 - 12.9
182m - 45.12 - 12.5
180m - 44.16 - 12.3
How come the A/Fr was showing a richer condition as the main jet was changed to a smaller (leaner) size from the 185? A 180m and a 182m are richer than a 185m?

PC pipe
main - peak hp - A/Fr
185m - 45.27 - 13.5
180m - 44.77 - 13.7
175m - 45.01 - 13.6
170m - 44.00 - 14.3
165m - 44.23 - 14.7
From a 165m to a 185m and there's only a difference of 1.04hp? And what is the explanation of the hp going down then up, then down and then back up again as the jetting is continually richened up?

The RE demonstrated an A/Fr change of .7 by changing the main two major sizes (190 - 180). Yet the PC demonstrated an A/Fr change of only 1.2 from changing four major sizes (165-185). But then the RE also shows an A/Fr change of 1.3 when changing one major size (190-185). So one major change in main jet has the same affect on the A/Fr as changing four major sizes?

Not everything here is adding up.

[chad502ex]

ok- ditto, this is not meant to start issues or arguments so i'm clarifying this right up front too!!!

The summary you provided is informative. My viewpoint is slightly different..

RE
190m - 45.27 - 11.6
180m - 44.16 - 12.3
--------------------------
difference of more than 1hp for small 0.7 A/Fr change with in a few steps of jet size.


PC pipe
185m - 45.27 - 13.5
165m - 44.23 - 14.7
-------------------------
difference of less than 1hp for 1.2 A/Fr change with larger number of jet step size.

But have you forgotten the temp/humidity changes throughout the day in these measurements? Remember the "mobile"?

These changes we both are pointing out are minimal when you consider the environment that it was tested in. Temp/Humidiy and other measurement uncertainties are in those measurements. In other words, the ambient changes thoughout the day can account for these unexpected values in the data. The test was performed outside and not in a controlled environment; plus, it took most of the day to perform. Overall, with the temp/humidity changes, temperature variations on the engine used, operator tolerances, I'd say these numbers are real close. Who's complaining?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by wppracing
With a mod motor( my set up without a ported head), The PC doesnt need a smaller main. I tuned the PC on the dyno with the A/F meter and showed that it needed a bigger main than what was stated. I did use the recommended jetting and it was VERY LEAN.

I know you are going to let me install that Hammerheadz piston for you, right?


:devil:

jk.



chad

i like my sparks big core :macho

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
The test was performed outside and not in a controlled environment; plus, it took most of the day to perform. Overall, with the temp/humidity changes, temperature variations on the engine used, operator tolerances, I'd say these numbers are real close. Who's complaining? [/B]
I'm not complaining, nor am I cherry picking numbers to make something sway one way or the other. BTW, correction factors take into account temp and humidity, that's what they're there for.

I'm not interested in your "view point" on the numbers I posted. I'm interested in some of the facts on this. And the test that these numbers were taken from was not conducted outside, you weren't there. But if you want to jump in on this one anyway, what's your comment on how the smaller jets made the A/Fr show a richer condition?

Originally posted by Bad Habit
I'm not complaining, nor am I cherry picking numbers to make something sway one way or the other. BTW, correction factors take into account temp and humidity, that's what they're there for.

I'm not interested in your "view point" on the numbers I posted. I'm interested in some of the facts on this. And the test that these numbers were taken from was not conducted outside, you weren't there. But if you want to jump in on this one anyway, what's your comment on how the smaller jets made the A/Fr show a richer condition?

you got a bad batch of magic fairy dust...lol :huh

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
you got a bad batch of magic fairy dust...lol :huh
Thanks for interjecting some of your wisdom and displaying the extent of your vast technical knowledge on this subject.

Run along home now.

Originally posted by Bad Habit
Thanks for interjecting some of your wisdom and displaying the extent of your vast technical knowledge on this subject.


yep no problem, glad to help

lol :macho

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
I'm not complaining, nor am I cherry picking numbers to make something sway one way or the other. BTW, correction factors take into account temp and humidity, that's what they're there for.

I'm not interested in your "view point" on the numbers I posted. I'm interested in some of the facts on this. And the test that these numbers were taken from was not conducted outside, you weren't there. But if you want to jump in on this one anyway, what's your comment on how the smaller jets made the A/Fr show a richer condition?

OK Sand Rat! I didn't think sand rats got dirty, but you seem to be gett'n lately,... I think you should be reminded that this forum isn't going to jive with your so-called superior moderator attitude towards members here. Because your a mod over there, doesn't give you any special priviledges here; so, try to be cordial.

I forgot to mention about the correction factors, but maybe i should remind you that these correction factors are in whole percent (%)- usually about 1, 2, or 3 points and can account for variances in the "corrected" numbers that you want facts on.

So there it is,... you answered your own question SR. If the correction factor % were smaller than whole, maybe you wouldn't have to cherry pick the numbers apart so much.

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
OK Sand Rat! I didn't think sand rats got dirty, but you seem to be gett'n lately,... I think you should be reminded that this forum isn't going to jive with your so-called superior moderator attitude towards members here. Because your a mod over there, doesn't give you any special priviledges here; so, try to be cordial.

I forgot to mention about the correction factors, but maybe i should remind you that these correction factors are in whole percent (%)- usually about 1, 2, or 3 points and can account for variances in the "corrected" numbers that you want facts on.

So there it is,... you answered your own question SR. If the correction factor % were smaller than whole, maybe you wouldn't have to cherry pick the numbers apart so much.
:huh Ummm, OK.

Not sure what that was all about, but you still didn't answer the question.........

what's your comment on how the smaller jets made the A/Fr show a richer condition?

[450ar]

inconsitant testing methods. and besides you get more usefull info with a 4/5 gas anlyaiser.

[TrX450rKiD]

First of all, about being cordial Chad, don't start degrading Dan! We have been cool lately, so let's not get into an argument. But you talk about being nice, and then you try to make fun of the sand rat thing. Let's just say, you could have been nicer about it.

Dan, that is kinda f*&ked about the A/Fr being messed up like that, sounds VERY wierd, someone messed up that one. Apparently a mistake was made.

About the original question:
Power gains are GREAT throughout the curve. VERY smooth curve, no dead spots AT ALL. Best sounding pipe I have heard, with 3 different version. Unlimited (loudest), Race (middle, avg sound lvl), Stealth (96 dB's) and it doesn't hurt the power, only a TINY bit in the middle :macho

[chad502ex]

i have no explanation on why the A/F ratio started going backwards a bit when smaller jetting changes were made :confused: , but I do know that the correction factors multiplier (in %) can really screw with the hp numbers after correction is applied.

One other thing,... I've heard that quads running leaded fuels eventually causes the A/F sniffer to, over test runs, clog the A/F sensor and distort the measurement. Dyna recommends that engines using the A/F metering not run leaded fuels. Maybe, the A/F sensor was, at the time and end of this test, starting to get clogged a bit which prevented true measurements from being made :confused: Just a possibility not an explanation.

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
i have no explanation on why the A/F ratio started going backwards a bit when smaller jetting changes were made :confused: , but I do know that the correction factors multiplier (in %) can really screw with the hp numbers after correction is applied.

One other thing,... I've heard that quads running leaded fuels eventually causes the A/F sniffer to, over test runs, clog the A/F sensor and distort the measurement. Dyna recommends that engines using the A/F metering not run leaded fuels. Maybe, the A/F sensor was, at the time and end of this test, starting to get clogged a bit which prevented true measurements from being made :confused: Just a possibility not an explanation.
I've never heard that before, but I guess it's possible. If the A/F meter was not measuring correctly, who knows what either of these exhausts could've pulled.

But I would think that an inconsistent A/F reading would have more to do with the air supply to the engine, or more accurately, the lack of air supply. If the engine cannot get a good supply of fresh air, that would account for oddities with the A/Fr and also for the marginal power change with such a wide range of jetting changes. It's not uncommon at all to see at least a 2hp difference when changing main jets two major sizes. The RE for example went from a 180 to a 190 (two major sizes), that is a huge change in jetting, but the peak power was only marginally affected. I think that the incoming charge of air was being limited and as a result, the amount of fuel the engine was able to pull in was also limited irregardless of what size main jet was in place.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
I've never heard that before, but I guess it's possible. If the A/F meter was not measuring correctly, who knows what either of these exhausts could've pulled.

But I would think that an inconsistent A/F reading would have more to do with the air supply to the engine, or more accurately, the lack of air supply. If the engine cannot get a good supply of fresh air, that would account for oddities with the A/Fr and also for the marginal power change with such a wide range of jetting changes. It's not uncommon at all to see at least a 2hp difference when changing main jets two major sizes. The RE for example went from a 180 to a 190 (two major sizes), that is a huge change in jetting, but the peak power was only marginally affected. I think that the incoming charge of air was being limited and as a result, the amount of fuel the engine was able to pull in was also limited irregardless of what size main jet was in place.

i'm not following you with your theory of lack of air supply to the engine during testing... How or Why was the air restricted to the engine during the testing?

[Bad Habit]

This would severely hamper the available air for the engine. Obviously I don't know the exact specs on this fan, but it's pretty common for ones of this size to pull 500cfm or more. Guessing that the trailer is 7x16x7, that gives approximately 750 cu ft of air space not taking into consideration the contents inside. With it positioned like it is to pull out the exhaust gases, it's also going to be pulling a tremendous amount of air from the interior of the trailer. That engine is not being allowed to "inhale" properly while operating. And this is not the same conditions as if the quad were moving with the outside air rushing by. This air is being pulled away from the quad whereas in a riding situation it is moving through still (relatively) air.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
This would severely hamper the available air for the engine. Obviously I don't know the exact specs on this fan, but it's pretty common for ones of this size to pull 500cfm or more. Guessing that the trailer is 7x16x7, that gives approximately 750 cu ft of air space not taking into consideration the contents inside. With it positioned like it is to pull out the exhaust gases, it's also going to be pulling a tremendous amount of air from the interior of the trailer. That engine is not being allowed to "inhale" properly while operating. And this is not the same conditions as if the quad were moving with the outside air rushing by. This air is being pulled away from the quad whereas in a riding situation it is moving through still (relatively) air.

I agree 110% with your explanation of unpredictable-unexplanable A/F measurements performed in this test using that fan to vaccumm the exhaust gases from the trailer! In this test configuration, the exhaust fan could cause an extreme draw on the air "trying" to flow into the airbox on the intake stroke.

Excellent. Now, this is tech talk. :D

[TrX450rKiD]

So could that cause great inaccuracies throughout the day? An engine starving for air sounds like it can really effect the outcome. Uh oh .. not test #3 :blah:

About the air flow .. I remember a post by Tony talking about the huge increase he got by adding something to divert the air into the intake, because it wasn't getting enough over like 180mph. If he is getting huge increases with that, I am sure both of these pipes could have performed much better with proper air flow, and maybe corrected jetting?

[chad502ex]

force air into the intake sounds a bit like the TURBO-530R!! :macho:

which by the way, that turbo had an incredible arm-stretch yank that the last time i felt that was on my brothers busa!

:D

Anyway, I agree that If i had those A/F numbers I'b be a little concerned about the validity of the data...
:ermm:

[TrX450rKiD]

I must say, good eye Dan. You definately notice way too many details .. http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/Smilies/limp_wrist.gif


Anyway, you hear about Gary's plans, Chad? 550 big bore stroker :eek2:

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by TrX450rKiD
I must say, good eye Dan. You definately notice way too many details .. http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/Smilies/limp_wrist.gif


Anyway, you hear about Gary's plans, Chad? 550 big bore stroker :eek2:

yes, i heard he was having someone build it for him. mine is almost together and should be finished within a matter of days. Just waiting for the cyclinder to be returned from plating ;) either way, Gary is going to smile big. Based on the 530 Turbo we built, I think his choice of 48mm throttle body is too big. These throttle bodies are not tapered like carbs and his low end idle is going to be difficult to map in his efi before the "autopilot" closed-loop circuitry engages (after the 30second sensor check completes).

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
Anyway, I agree that If i had those A/F numbers I'b be a little concerned about the validity of the data...
:ermm:
Just some things that make you go hmmmmm, but I can't blame anyone for putting the fan in there. That's better than having someone trying to wake you up because you were asphyxiated.

Oh, and Kid, I've been married for 14 years so I've been trained to pay attention to all the details :blah:

[wppracing]

What the picture shows is the fan used to draw the exhaust out of the trailer and to the outside. But remember there is another fan just like the one for the exhaust in front of the atv suppling air. The air box had the lid removed for all the tests.

[TrX450rKiD]

But Brian, if that fan in front was sufficient, then why the screwed up A/Fr #'s? I think the fan behind the quad just pulled out too much air .. I can't think of any other reason for the A/Fr to be so screwy ..

[wppracing]

I dont know , The a/f readings are what they are, pick it apart and come up with your own opinions. :rolleyes:

The PC is the best :macho NO the Rossier is the best :macho NO Sparks :macho No LRD :macho No Yoshi :macho NO HMF :macho No WB :macho Blah Blah Blah:D

[TrX450rKiD]

You can't understand why we are asking questions? The A/Fr isn't how it should be. You went to a leaner jet and the A/Fr went the opposite way. We are calling you a liar, we are just trying to figure out why this happened ...

[wppracing]

You can't understand why we are asking questions- Its simple you arent hearing what you want.

Well if you read the charts again you will see that the smaller jet had a leaner a/f reading. The 165 main had approx 15.75
and the 185 had a reading of approx 14.20

I am sure if I used a 160 main it would have been even leaner (16.0 or higher). The higher the a/f reading the leaner the mixture is.

[TrX450rKiD]

I'm not hearing what I want? And why did you edit kid out of the post?


RE
190m - 45.27 - 11.6
180m - 44.16 - 12.3
--------------------------

PC pipe
185m - 45.27 - 13.5
165m - 44.23 - 14.7
-------------------------
I went by Chad's info, and that shows the leaner jet having a richer condition ...

[wppracing]

I didnt want to direct it to one person., but in general.
Instead of taking what someone said , go to the source and this wouldnt continue. Look again at www.precision-ms.com and judge for yourself.

[Bad Habit]

Well if you read the charts again you will see that the smaller jet had a leaner a/f reading. The 165 main had approx 15.75 and the 185 had a reading of approx 14.20
These are the numbers right off of the graphs from Precision-MS. This is using the reading at the end of the runs (a reading at any other point in the rpm range is not useful using only a wideband o2 sensor).

Originally posted by Bad Habit
RE pipe
main - peak hp - A/Fr
190m - 45.27 - 11.6
185m - 45.70 - 12.9
182m - 45.12 - 12.5
180m - 44.16 - 12.3

PC pipe
main - peak hp - A/Fr
185m - 45.27 - 13.5
180m - 44.77 - 13.7
175m - 45.01 - 13.6
170m - 44.00 - 14.3
165m - 44.23 - 14.7


The RE demonstrated a 182 and 180 are richer than a 185.

The PC demonstrated a .2 total variation in A/Fr between 175, 180 and 185. Typically a jetting change of this magnitude will show a full point differential in A/Fr.

[wppracing]

This is using the reading at the end of the runs ----


I used the highest reading at the **peak of the curve**. So our readings will be different. I looked at what I am saying and what you are saying and the results are as we stated. From looking at the graphs again at the peak HP peak the jets are showing the correct measuremnts ,the 190 is richer and so on .But at the EOR it is opposite. Why I dont know.
Yes, so I see everyones point now.

[370kingR]

Chad,

You really think the 48 mil T.B. is too much huh? Kelly swears its exactly what it needs. I believe the next step down is a 45mm but that sounds, well, ordinary doesnt it!

God i hate hearing that i am having someone build it. If i could take it back i would. I havent had someone put together a whole motor like that since a CT 350 kit went into my 250r about 10 years ago now! They better know what their doing over there :D

Oh and dont think i forgot about riding one of these weekends coming up. Between work, now a down quad, and vacationing with the family, its been hard but we shall hook up sometime in August. Just in time for you dudes to get that turbo dialed in just perfect. I have a few hairs on the back of my neck that needs standing up :p

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 370kingR
Chad,

You really think the 48 mil T.B. is too much huh? Kelly swears its exactly what it needs. I believe the next step down is a 45mm but that sounds, well, ordinary doesnt it!

God i hate hearing that i am having someone build it. If i could take it back i would. I havent had someone put together a whole motor like that since a CT 350 kit went into my 250r about 10 years ago now! They better know what their doing over there :D

Oh and dont think i forgot about riding one of these weekends coming up. Between work, now a down quad, and vacationing with the family, its been hard but we shall hook up sometime in August. Just in time for you dudes to get that turbo dialed in just perfect. I have a few hairs on the back of my neck that needs standing up :p

Gary- you-da-man! You crack me up!
Can't wait to we get get on the PA trails and roost together. August sounds perfect. I should be fully up and ready probally within a week; so, let's start planning an actual weekend and get the dates settled between us all.

Tonight I'll go over Jims and finish mapping in his 530 TURBO EFI. Last weekend we had a small programming issue with the mapping, but Kelly is on of those ppl who really cares about making things perfect for his customers. He spent most of his holiday weekend on the phone helping us out. The EFI setup is absolutely outstanding! Every aspect of the system is simply well designed, well built, and well thought out. If there is any mod anyone makes, this system should be at the top of thier list. It's amazing, throw in alcohol and the system instantly adapts, throw in a 30 shot and it instantly adapts to that too! LOVE IT! Anyhow, Kelly shipped Jim 2 of the biggest injectors on his alcohol setup. This system is so efficient that i'd be real surprised if 48mm TB is good for you. If it were me spending my $1500, id get the 45mm and run bigger injectors if i had to, rather than getting a 48mm tb and being to big on the body. Rember, when John at NMotion tried a 48mm carb and only get it to perform on very top end. John did alot of dyno testing and the 45mm seemed to be perfect for our head. my 0.02. I plan on getting some video tonight uploaded so ppl can see EFI turbo,..

[TrX450rKiD]

Originally posted by chad502ex
I plan on getting some video tonight uploaded so ppl can see EFI turbo,..
Do it! :D

[Mobile Dyno]

First of all the Trailer is 8.5ft-28ft! The Fans I have put out 2,091cfm Each.
Yes, Leaded fuel kills an A/F filter's life in half from what I was told months after this test. Alot of events have happend scince then and when I was told, I didn't think of this test, I was thinking for the future.
I went back and looked at the graphs again and studied them closer and I see Bad Habits point. I noticed the R.E's A/F graphs going richer with the smaller main jets. The dip that you see at the beginning of the graph is the Accelerator Pump. Then it goes leaner after 6500rpm were the main jet starts to come on. We started the test with the PC and a new A/F filter. But with not knowing about the Leaded fuel, we never changed the filter when now I see why the R.E was getting richer with smaller jets(Clogged Filter). What should of happened is we should have put a new filter in before the R.E test that way both pipes were on a fresh filter. I'm taking the blame for that:)
WPPracing, get the pipes and lets do it again:D Bad Habit does that answer your question?

[wppracing]

Thanks for clearing it up Matt.
But with a new filter installed will it change the HP and TQ readings or just the A/F reading at the end of the run?

[370kingR]

Thanks for your input Chad, i really do apprecieate it.

I think you may have a very good point. I absolutly remember John @ NMotion saying he had better luck with the 45 mm. He also said the best cam for my motor was the Mysto and since i put that cam in, i havent taken it out yet ;)

On my own thoughts, i have a feeling that the entire intake port alone can not fully take advantage of a 48mm size opening. It probably cant even flow enough volume throught it to take advantage of such a large T.B. Oversizing a carb/T.B. is not good for anything but a loss in throttle response. Its just Kelly insisted on using the 48mm. Its hard to argue with the man who invented the system..lol

His explination was that he told someone else the same thing and that person also wanted the 45mm T.B. Well, they went with a 48mm and the guy was amazed to find it had GAINED a ton a response and power throughout. Two things need to be considered here though. One is that i believe that was on a DS Bomber and two, unless you try a 45mm T.B., you dont really know what you might be missing or not missing as far as performance. Yes it performed excellent but mayby it would perform even better with the smaller T.B. Again, i believe that was on a bigger motor too. I will grill him on this issue some more. He is an awsome guy to talk too. I feel very comforatable dealing with Kelly.

Mobile Dyno,

Are you saying we have to collect 9 different pipes again to test!! lol I got 3 we can test....a Yosh, a P.C., and a FMF!

Here we go again. Its cool you are really figuring out how that A/F works and how to maximize its helpfulness. Lets all camp out @ Harlans place and do a full day of exhausts then a full day of cams. Then mayby we can do fuels! We might possibly wear out that darn dyno :D




Originally posted by chad502ex
Gary- you-da-man! You crack me up!
Can't wait to we get get on the PA trails and roost together. August sounds perfect. I should be fully up and ready probally within a week; so, let's start planning an actual weekend and get the dates settled between us all.

Tonight I'll go over Jims and finish mapping in his 530 TURBO EFI. Last weekend we had a small programming issue with the mapping, but Kelly is on of those ppl who really cares about making things perfect for his customers. He spent most of his holiday weekend on the phone helping us out. The EFI setup is absolutely outstanding! Every aspect of the system is simply well designed, well built, and well thought out. If there is any mod anyone makes, this system should be at the top of thier list. It's amazing, throw in alcohol and the system instantly adapts, throw in a 30 shot and it instantly adapts to that too! LOVE IT! Anyhow, Kelly shipped Jim 2 of the biggest injectors on his alcohol setup. This system is so efficient that i'd be real surprised if 48mm TB is good for you. If it were me spending my $1500, id get the 45mm and run bigger injectors if i had to, rather than getting a 48mm tb and being to big on the body. Rember, when John at NMotion tried a 48mm carb and only get it to perform on very top end. John did alot of dyno testing and the 45mm seemed to be perfect for our head. my 0.02. I plan on getting some video tonight uploaded so ppl can see EFI turbo,..

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 370kingR
Thanks for your input Chad, i really do apprecieate it.

I think you may have a very good point. I absolutly remember John @ NMotion saying he had better luck with the 45 mm. He also said the best cam for my motor was the Mysto and since i put that cam in, i havent taken it out yet ;)

On my own thoughts, i have a feeling that the entire intake port alone can not fully take advantage of a 48mm size opening. It probably cant even flow enough volume throught it to take advantage of such a large T.B. Oversizing a carb/T.B. is not good for anything but a loss in throttle response. Its just Kelly insisted on using the 48mm. Its hard to argue with the man who invented the system..lol

His explination was that he told someone else the same thing and that person also wanted the 45mm T.B. Well, they went with a 48mm and the guy was amazed to find it had GAINED a ton a response and power throughout. Two things need to be considered here though. One is that i believe that was on a DS Bomber and two, unless you try a 45mm T.B., you dont really know what you might be missing or not missing as far as performance. Yes it performed excellent but mayby it would perform even better with the smaller T.B. Again, i believe that was on a bigger motor too. I will grill him on this issue some more. He is an awsome guy to talk too. I feel very comforatable dealing with Kelly.

Mobile Dyno,

Are you saying we have to collect 9 different pipes again to test!! lol I got 3 we can test....a Yosh, a P.C., and a FMF!

Here we go again. Its cool you are really figuring out how that A/F works and how to maximize its helpfulness. Lets all camp out @ Harlans place and do a full day of exhausts then a full day of cams. Then mayby we can do fuels! We might possibly wear out that darn dyno :D

370kingR, do not hesitate to call my cell about the EFI. Last night we spent until about 11pm mapping out the efi on the turbo. It's not as easy as you may think. Honestly, the idle is extremely tough for us using the 41mm tb; so, a 48mm wow. Once again, I'm just trying to help ya make a decision eaither way. If you want you could call jim to. We took some pics. With the hurican after-splash it rained like h3ll so we could go out on the road with the turbo spooled up hydroplaning; so, we worked on mapping.

[370kingR]

I was just thinking..Dont you work?? LMAO

What do you have a computer at you desk at work or just hang around at the computer all day at your home Chad!

My excuse today is the rain. Cant build a deck in the rain :rolleyes:

Something is going to change in my motor today, im not sure what but something.....

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 370kingR
I was just thinking..Dont you work?? LMAO

What do you have a computer at you desk at work or just hang around at the computer all day at your home Chad!

My excuse today is the rain. Cant build a deck in the rain :rolleyes:

Something is going to change in my motor today, im not sure what but something.....

I work, or at least, take frequent breaks to check for updates ;) You could say i'm addicted.... :D

what is going to change? you mean your efi? Is your stroker done?

when i tore down my 530 for 550, you should see the pictures of the cylinder and piston skirts.. Swaaaaaet! no wear after hard breakin on the dyno and ~60 hours of run-time. The only reason why i went 550 was because i decked my head and cam tower bosses so i figured why not. While i was in there i checked my crank bearings and counter bearings and eveything was like glass. the 550 will be hitting the dyno real soon for sure to measure the new valve train, new caarb, and the new displacement. over 60 for sure ;)

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by Mobile Dyno
First of all the Trailer is 8.5ft-28ft! The Fans I have put out 2,091cfm Each.
Yes, Leaded fuel kills an A/F filter's life in half from what I was told months after this test. Alot of events have happend scince then and when I was told, I didn't think of this test, I was thinking for the future.
I went back and looked at the graphs again and studied them closer and I see Bad Habits point. I noticed the R.E's A/F graphs going richer with the smaller main jets. The dip that you see at the beginning of the graph is the Accelerator Pump. Then it goes leaner after 6500rpm were the main jet starts to come on. We started the test with the PC and a new A/F filter. But with not knowing about the Leaded fuel, we never changed the filter when now I see why the R.E was getting richer with smaller jets(Clogged Filter). What should of happened is we should have put a new filter in before the R.E test that way both pipes were on a fresh filter. I'm taking the blame for that:)
WPPracing, get the pipes and lets do it again:D Bad Habit does that answer your question?
Boy, that sucks about the filters. I'd venture a guess that the vast majority of people strapping their quads to a dyno are going to be running leaded fuel of some type.......do they sell the filters by the case? Maybe you could get a good discount for having to buy them in bulk? :D

And that's a bigarse trailer you have! Even given the huge interior of that thing, I'd still be a little concerned with the available air to the engine with a 2091cfm (wow:eek2: ) sucking all the air surrounding the quad. But that's me, I'm a worrier by nature.