Vortex or CRF???

[Airik79mx]

Getting a CDI and can't make up my mind on a Vortex CDI or the CRF ignition. Anyone know from experience? What are your thoughts on them? thanks...

[cals400ex]

the crf setup will be the best made. it will cost much more though. you need the flywheel, ignition, wires, etc. some minor modifications need to be made to make the setup work properly too. if you rather spend under $350 instead of $700, i would recommend the dyna.

[Airik79mx]

I can get all the CRF parts for alittle over 300 bucks. Then I would have to get the cover modified to work with it. I can get the Vortex for $310 +tax

[roostin_dale]

i LOVE my vortex but i have also never rode a 450r with the crf ignition..

[ky04450r]

the crf ignition turned my r into a monster. it may not show up on a dyno, but it realy makes the motor come alive. the best money i have ever spent. got mine from trail tech and kept the fan. my will explode off the line with this set up

[Airik79mx]

Thats what I like to hear.:eek2:

[RedRacer44]

I've ridden a couple of bikes with the CRF ignition and its a huge difference in power delievery and ride-ability. The motor really rips with the CRF ignition along with other mods like piston, cam, fcr carb, porting, etc etc.....

Its the way to go I think if you're racing MX.....when I get an '06 for my next race bike, i'm building my motor with the CRF ignition, for sure!!

[TrX450rKiD]

Originally posted by ky04450r
the crf ignition turned my r into a monster. it may not show up on a dyno, but it realy makes the motor come alive. the best money i have ever spent. got mine from trail tech and kept the fan. my will explode off the line with this set up
How much does it cost from TT .. the one that allows you to keep the fan and lights?

[Airik79mx]

Originally posted by TrX450rKiD
How much does it cost from TT .. the one that allows you to keep the fan and lights?

Conversion with rewound CRF stator-for lights or fan Cost
Modified TRX Side Case with CRF stator plate $75
Trail Tech CRF Flywheel (14 or 16 oz) $119
CRF Wire Harness $29
CRF OEM CDI (11,300 RPM) $158
TRX Flywheel Puller $19
OEM CRF Stator (Rewound for lights/fan) $186
Trail Tech Regulator/Rectifier $29
TRX Side Case Gasket $10
Crimp Kit for making electrical connections $29
Trail Tech 2000 mAh Nickel Metal Hydride Battery Pack $35
Total with options: $689

[chad502ex]

The Dynatek ignition is freeg'n awesome!

[cals400ex]

i run the dyna ignition. i really can't tell much of a difference (besides extra rpms) over the stock box on my bike. on a dyno, it may show differences though. i hear the vortex won't gain anything on a dyno besides the rpms.

[R3Concepts]

TT CRF ignition all the way. DO NOT try to mix and match the CRF stator plates. There are at least 3 different ones that we have seen and they are not interchangeable, Baldwin, Sparks, and TT. Talk to Geoff @ TT. He really knows his sh** and he will tell you that a CRF ign. bike will kill a Dyna and -4 flywheel bike, anyday, all day long. The CRF revs FAST, and the flywheel is the biggest difference, A very common mis-conception is that the CRF ign. is a rev mod, but its not, it will rev very fast and high, but the TRX motor is done making power way before the CRF 11200 rev. Its a bottom end mod. A CRF bike with just the ign. on a stock motor, will jump out to a 2 bike length lead on a fully built stock ign. bike. It takes a massive motor to catch 2 bike lenghts on a holeshot, or up a hill. Think about what it does, on a fully built motor. Good times, trust me.

[EvilJester400EX]

Think of it like this, the dirtbike flywheel is 2 pounds lighter than the one in a stock TRX450R, or would you like an extra 1000 RPM's? Your choice.

[R3Concepts]

The stock CRF is an 18oz and then TT cuts it down to a 14 oz becuase its too big on the back to fit right on the TRX. The stock TRX flywheel is an 26 oz. The main difference is the diameter of the 2, the CRF is about an inch smaller in diameter, which means less inertiaand rotating mass, which is where you get the faster revs from. Not quite 2lbs difference though.

[Airik79mx]

I'm thinking CRF... I want it to rev quicker, not really worried about a higher rev limiter. Also it's OEM Honda;)

[EvilJester400EX]

Sorry, I had always heard it was 2 pounds. :p My bad.

[Dave400ex]

I'm just wondering, would the CRF kit make it easier to stall or harder to start?

[cals400ex]

the crf does stall easier from what i hear. it is also common that lighter flywheels will make the bike not idle as smooth. i don't know if this is a problem on the crf setup though.

[R3Concepts]

Easier to start for sure...Stalling is not an issue. We lug our CRF ign. bikes around all the time, in the pits at tracks, at the dunes and so on, only if you let all the way off and let it roll in very low 1st, is it an issue. The one who cuts the flywheel will effect how the motor idles. Our TT CRF ign. bikes idle smooth as glass, no up and down, no change of rev whatsoever, but IF its not balanced or cut right it WILL idle poor.

[450R_lover]

People are talking like all they can tell that the $400 ignitions are doing is raising their rev limiter. Why spend $400 on raising the rev limit when all you have to do is get a cheap 1,000 rpm rev box that does the same thing?? i just dont understand but if the different curve settings really work, then i think it would be worth it. I just went the cheap way and got an Alba rev box for about $78 shipped and it did more than i thought it would. I actually noticed a difference.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 450R_lover
People are talking like all they can tell that the $400 ignitions are doing is raising their rev limiter. Why spend $400 on raising the rev limit when all you have to do is get a cheap 1,000 rpm rev box that does the same thing?? i just dont understand but if the different curve settings really work, then i think it would be worth it. I just went the cheap way and got an Alba rev box for about $78 shipped and it did more than i thought it would. I actually noticed a difference.

OK. When I had the Vortex I thought i felt a difference in the pull on the different curves, but on the dyno that ignition didn't amount to much of any measurable amount. So I sold it, knowing that when the dynatek was released i'd give it a try so i could program some of my own curves into the module for the 530r. I have yet to dyno yet to measure the difference, but the pull seems to be at least twice the pull i felt from vortex. We'll see, at least the programming part and rev limit increase is worth the money for me. As soon as i get back on the dyno i'll post the dyno info for ppl to make their own determination of the cost vs. performance.

[cals400ex]

the reason you buy an expensive box for the 450r is because the simple plug in boxes actually make LESS power than the stock box on the dyno. they do raise the rev limit but who cares if they make less power. most people have been impressed with the dyna. i am not saying it will give you huge gains but for the price it is the best i know of for the 450r.

[Airik79mx]

Whats Dynatek's web site?

[cals400ex]

www.dynaonline.com

[dB_]

Originally posted by 450R_lover
People are talking like all they can tell that the $400 ignitions are doing is raising their rev limiter. Why spend $400 on raising the rev limit when all you have to do is get a cheap 1,000 rpm rev box that does the same thing??

Well that cheap 1000 rpm rev box gives you a few free features

1) It loses the TPS sensor, so you get no more 3D ignition maps

2) weaker spark energy

3) one fixed timing curve that is the same as the part throttle curve in the stock box.

Buy made in China parts, and get made in China engineering for free.

[kgbg]

Why not a CRF set up with a CRF Vortex with custom mapping?:cool:

[ky04450r]

so do you have a crf ignition with a dyna box? If so how does it perform. I have just the crf ignition alone.

[chad502ex]

why? because most single-cylinder four strokes engines can't "afford" to lose its entire "deposit" on Friday!

the power stroke being the "deposit", and the exhaust, intake and the compression stroke being the "payout" from the deposit before the "paycheck" is able to comes around again to replenish the account...

catch my drift? LOL!
;)

sure,.. a lightened crf setup will help the quickness, but could cause major issues with valve floating on top with increased load snap and crank speed variation. And let me tell you i have proof of crank speed variation on my lengthened cam chain setup for my stroker that i may post.... But that's another story... :D

ever thought why HONDA recommends 50hr cam chain replacement? I assure you it has nothing to do with the cam chain not being big enough. Really, 50hr replacement is because the crank speed variation with lightened flywheel cause premature cam chain wear when you thump the throttle hard and fast. In other words, the lighter the flywheel the greater the crank speed variation and the faster the requirement to replace.

[kgbg]

I don't live paycheck to paycheck any more so who cares how much is depsited on Friday.....
Dyna does nto make a box for the CRF. Vortex does.

[chad502ex]

yea, i saw that mansion behind you while you were sitting on your quad for a picture. we know your rich!

the reference to money (or Fridays deposit) was meant to be by similarity to the issues with using lightened flywheels on single cylinder engines. nevermind.

get the vortex made for the crf, it has 10 settings :eek2:

[kgbg]

LOL I know I read that article by Kevin Cameron, I was just trying to be funny. I thought that it was pretty interesting. I will be doining some major testing on different flywheel weights, and ignition systems on the Hill Bike on my new Dyno. I am thinking that what ever effects the flywheel has on a twin, would be greater on a single.
Do you?

Although, I am not sure what mansion you are talking about, my house is 1400 sq feet (almost)!

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by kgbg
LOL I know I read that article by Kevin Cameron, I was just trying to be funny. I thought that it was pretty interesting. I will be doining some major testing on different flywheel weights, and ignition systems on the Hill Bike on my new Dyno. I am thinking that what ever effects the flywheel has on a twin, would be greater on a single.
Do you?

Although, I am not sure what mansion you are talking about, my house is 1400 sq feet (almost)!

LOL!! I thought you posted a picture of you and your quad in the middle of a culdi-sak rich-boy mansion neighborhood!! :confused:
nevermind again my bad again. I must be think'n of someone elses post.

you have your own dyno now? wow, kewl lucky you!

Anyway, yes that was my point too about flywheel weight being too light on built engines like yours. I didn't know that you were funn'n tho. :confused:

the cranks speeds do change alot especially towards idle. But really its the cam chain that will get jerked harder and wear faster and/or the tensioner will pop. Valve float is a concern but only if your running cheezy springs- everyone knows that.

[R3Concepts]

We run stock springs in our TT CRF ign. bikes, and Sparks runs stock springs on all the ones he does, unless the cam calls for heavier springs or it has more extensive mods, but no floating yet, and we ride the piss out these bikes.

[chad502ex]

ok. If i were running tt on stock springs i'd make sure that over time the spring seat pressure didn't change. From what i've been told by Ron Hamp, the seat pressure changes drastically after the spring runs those R's over extended period of time. Also, once they begin to become softer they barely keep half the pressure in them. Half the pressure half the control at 10,000 rpm.

[kgbg]

I agree that stock springs are good, but you need to keep tension readings on them.
Thats what I run, so far, they have not sacked, but I am about due to test again.
I have also had 2 cam chains in there, its too cheap so when I tear down I get a new one.
I am going to go back to a fan, for the summer on my duner, and try some more wieght on the flywheel.
I started a new shop, and the dyno will be here in 3 weeks!
I do live in a circle, but not inthe rich part of town;)

[chad502ex]

stock spring resonate slightly above stock rev limit. If there is an increase rev limit with rev box, then better to be safe with springs that are designed to resonate near 15k rpm.

my 0.02. it isn't my engine.


Good luck with your shop Kam! What are you going to be selling? products and service?

[mikes450r]

Originally posted by kgbg
I agree that stock springs are good, but you need to keep tension readings on them.
Thats what I run, so far, they have not sacked, but I am about due to test again.
I have also had 2 cam chains in there, its too cheap so when I tear down I get a new one.
I am going to go back to a fan, for the summer on my duner, and try some more wieght on the flywheel.
I started a new shop, and the dyno will be here in 3 weeks!
I do live in a circle, but not inthe rich part of town;)

hey KGB, pm on what you have going on with your dyno...i just got my info packet from dynojet research today..im still waiting on the packet from land and sea...im not to sure which one i want to go with...Ive heard good things about both of them...so just looking to get another opinion..

thanks mike