Chad how does this look??

[kazpr]

Does this look good? This is after first firing up my motor and running for about 20 minutes idle. Thanks alot Scott

[jak1389]

whats wrong with it? i cant notice anything from the pics.

[chad502ex]

Saaaaaaweeeeeeeeeet!

:macho

[kazpr]

He knows alot about pipe color for jetting. Curious if this looks about right to him.
<Edit> Thanks alot Chad :devil:

[jak1389]

is there a little blueish color on the header? i can hardly tell.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by jak1389
is there a little blueish color on the header? i can hardly tell.

I thought i saw a bit of bluish near the head too, but not enough to say ouch. I think it looks great!

[RacinMason_690]

can anybody tell me how to get all of that blue off? once i get my jetting right i wanna get rid of all that stuff.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by RacinMason_690
can anybody tell me how to get all of that blue off? once i get my jetting right i wanna get rid of all that stuff.

stainless headers is easy to remove the blue with a polishing wheel and stainless polishing compound. When your done the stainless will look like chrome.

[jak1389]

if it is blue make it a tad richer and you will probably be perfect!

[RacinMason_690]

mine is already running rich and it still turned really blue. so i dont know whats up? any help would be appreciated.

[Moto92]

I thought turning blue was a sign of lean and too much heat

[jak1389]

yea it means that the jetting is too lean. that is why i said make it alittle richer which would make it perfect;)

[chad502ex]

Ya know, this subject is somewhat sensitive subject to some ppl.

There are most who believe that a "Bluish" header on the 450r is normal. I say rubbish on most systems except ones made of aluminum foil; however, I will admit that a rather thin walled exhaust header could heat up and dis-color alot easier than a thick walled header. A bluish header is from excessive heat from lean condition. A rich condition will tend to dis-color headers towards brown, but dial'd in engine will be golden like. Usually the header turns to blue near idle or low rpm because on top end there is plently of air cooling to keep temperatures below discoloration. My point is the header is a visual of jetting that should not be subsituted for a/f sampling on a dyno, or actual ride performance evaluation.

I just thought i'd clarify my viewpoint a bit before any flaming started.

[DJJ450r]

my rossier turned bluish purple after the m of d race. so its to lean i guess? and should i up the main jet or what. any help would be greatly appreciated:D . im runnin a 185 main 50 pilot with hrc kit needle clip in 3rd position and air fuel screw 2 turns out.

im running a sparks big core, 190 main 50 piolet, and it backfires on decel, that means its too lean on the piolet still? or what should i do to fix it? :confused:

[RacinMason_690]

im not getting mad or anything. i was just wondering why my header keeps turning deep blue all the time. and it was running rich. but now i adjusted the needle and now she wont fire at all. :confused: maybe if i rub her just right, then she might feel like starting for me. seems like that works sometimes. haha. im relatively new to this stuff and i was just curious.

[Scro]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
im running a sparks big core, 190 main 50 piolet, and it backfires on decel, that means its too lean on the piolet still? or what should i do to fix it? :confused:

Mine also backfires on decel. I still have the stock pilot jet, should i change it out???

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by DJJ450r
my rossier turned bluish purple after the m of d race. so its to lean i guess? and should i up the main jet or what. any help would be greatly appreciated:D . im runnin a 185 main 50 pilot with hrc kit needle clip in 3rd position and air fuel screw 2 turns out.

that seems close for you, but if it turns blue it would be difficult to "visually" see the your changes unless you start over by removing the blue discoloration. You only get one shot at staying below lean (or blue)- then once it turns blue your done must use other more accurate measures at measuring A/F. Anyway, your setup looks real close except i would turn out your screw 0.5 to 1 turn then readjust your idle up a bit. Your main seems a little too small too with 185, but if you feel zero bobble on top for at least 5 seconds of WOT then your not rich, but i suspect that you may be missing a small bit of hp on top with 185. Try increasing your main to 190 and run WOT for full 5 seconds in 5th gear- if you feel bobble your rich, if there seems to be no pull and seems to be running like it can not go any faster but the R's isn't limit then lean.

A plug check is best on 5 second WOT if you can immediately shut engine off using kill switch and coast to stop or decelerate. then with engine off slow down to stop and remove plug right there and see if carbon line is mid-way on the arc of the electrode plus grey in color.

[spud400ex]

now that you're done with that thing lets go break it in. im jonsen for a ride and noone else wants to ride.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by bama450r
Mine also backfires on decel. I still have the stock pilot jet, should i change it out???

backfiring on hard decel is when the idle circuit is taking back over and is lean condition igniting the un-spent fuel still left in the cylinder from main.

Either way b/f is bad. up your slow jet

[Scro]

Originally posted by chad502ex
backfiring on hard decel is when the idle circuit is taking back over and is lean condition igniting the un-spent fuel still left in the cylinder from main.

Either way b/f is bad. up your slow jet

when u say slow jet, are u talking about the pilot jet?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by bama450r
when u say slow jet, are u talking about the pilot jet?

yes

[RacinMason_690]

well i finally got it started and it runs awsome now. i polished the blue off in a spot and it didnt turn back so that should be good. thanks chad for helping me out.

Originally posted by chad502ex
backfiring on hard decel is when the idle circuit is taking back over and is lean condition igniting the un-spent fuel still left in the cylinder from main.

Either way b/f is bad. up your slow jet

so go up on the piolet...man that is a pain..i jus put in a 50 piolet and now i need to go even higher? is there an easier way like adjust the fuel/air mixture or somethin?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
so go up on the piolet...man that is a pain..i jus put in a 50 piolet and now i need to go even higher? is there an easier way like adjust the fuel/air mixture or somethin?

yes a pain cause you must remove the carb remove the float bowl cover and unscrew the pilot, then reassemble to adjust screw. Think of the screw as a fine to the slow jet. Be sure to adjust the idle back up a bit after adjusting the idle. If the screw does not change rpm any then you know its not the correct size.

Originally posted by chad502ex
yes a pain cause you must remove the carb remove the float bowl cover and unscrew the pilot, then reassemble to adjust screw. Thing of the screw of a fine to the slow jet. It will change the rpm a samll bit when adjusting, so you have to also adjust idle afterwards. If the screw does not change rpm any then you know its not the correct size.

it was so much easier doing this on the 400ex....:(

[bloodhound400]

Originally posted by chad502ex
that seems close for you, but if it turns blue it would be difficult to "visually" see the your changes unless you start over by removing the blue discoloration. You only get one shot at staying below lean (or blue)- then once it turns blue your done must use other more accurate measures at measuring A/F. Anyway, your setup looks real close except i would turn out your screw 0.5 to 1 turn then readjust your idle up a bit. Your main seems a little too small too with 185, but if you feel zero bobble on top for at least 5 seconds of WOT then your not rich, but i suspect that you may be missing a small bit of hp on top with 185. Try increasing your main to 190 and run WOT for full 5 seconds in 5th gear- if you feel bobble your rich, if there seems to be no pull and seems to be running like it can not go any faster but the R's isn't limit then lean.

A plug check is best on 5 second WOT if you can immediately shut engine off using kill switch and coast to stop or decelerate. then with engine off slow down to stop and remove plug right there and see if carbon line is mid-way on the arc of the electrode plus grey in color. when doing a plug check at wot what gear should you do it in?

[DJJ450r]

yea it was easier on my blaster to:(

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by bloodhound400
when doing a plug check at wot what gear should you do it in?

a plug check a 5 sec WOT should be in top gear or as close as 1:1 transmission gear ratio as possible. A 1:1 gear ratio loads down the engine to its fullest. It may be flying, but without a loaded dyno, this is the only real way. You can not dial in WOT in any other gear other than one that has 1:1 or close (usually 5th). Any lower gears, the ratio is larger and the load on the engine is reduced through transmission gearing.

[bloodhound400]

thanks alot chad,you really cleared alot of things up for me

[bloodhound400]

chad one other thing,when i shift into 5th do i begin the 5 sec then?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by bloodhound400
chad one other thing,when i shift into 5th do i begin the 5 sec then?

no start counting for 5 full seconds (or longer) when you begin your WOT or when you stab the throttle in 5th to it's fullest. After the throttle is pinned in 5th starting counting like your playing hide-and-seek,... one thousand one, one thousand two, ect....

if you get to full 5 seconds and no bobble increase jetting one size increment until you get some bobble- then go back down one size . Better yet if your good a plug readings: make a full 5 sec WOT run, kill motor, coast to stop, pull plug, check carbon line and color as described above.

Good luck and hope this helps.

Chad502ex.com

[bloodhound400]

hate to seem like an idiot,just want to be sure.when i go into 5th open the throttle all the way up then begin counting,orwhen it is wide open and wont gain anymore speed then start counting,thanks in advance

[450 Racer R]

your guys main jets are fat. I'm running a 168 with the hrc needle on the third clip with all other settings stock on the stock carb and it runs great with an open lid, k&n, and tc exhaust.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by bloodhound400
hate to seem like an idiot,just want to be sure.when i go into 5th open the throttle all the way up then begin counting,orwhen it is wide open and wont gain anymore speed then start counting,thanks in advance

no as soon as you stab the throttle start counting. be sure your in 5th and rolling from about 30mph or so.

if your rich the engine will bobble and choke on all the fuel. this bobble is clearly different than the fast rev limit studdle that has repetition every crank rotation. a bobble is not consistent hesitation.

[400exBro]

Sorry to intrude this thread, but it still has something to do with this topic...
I had spoke with Chad early on this very same problem and still can not get the headpipe that golden colour seen on the 1st page. So i will post a picture of my headpipe (sparks stainless steel) and I hope someone could help me out...
thanks and sorry for interduing, there is some good information in this thread...

[400exBro]

pic 2...
could the way it is being held to the exhaust manifold be the problem?? if it is not held properly on to the manifold it will cause air to leak in right??
i am going to take the head pipe off and inspect the manifold, and make sure it is sealing properly...

[chad502ex]

ok, i feel i should reiterate that the header will not turn golden if the header has already turned bluish or purple.

My sparks exhaust header flange bent exactly as your has when i had that system. it always made good hea port contact because i always use new exhaust crush gaskets.

[400exBro]

the thing is the blue colour keeps growing futher back and back... so something still isn't right.

ya i didn't replace the gasket for the exhuast, i will look at it to make sure it isn't damaged at all...
any other ideas?

[kazpr]

Wohooo I started a good thread!! :)

[400exBro]

Originally posted by kazpr
Wohooo I started a good thread!! :)

yup!!!
what jetting are you running on your 450r?? and do you know your elevation?