LTZ450 = 46.4 HP... Here is the link...

[freakystone]

http://www.yoshimura-rd.com/new.asp

[ChadEXer]

I wonder why Yoshi was making a 450 kit for the bike before it was even released:confused:

[Juggalo]

chad, yoshimura and suzuki designed the drz 400 engine (the motor that the quad has) together.y oshimura had the hop up parts made for the dirtbike and they have em for the quad now too. yoshi knew about the z-400 all along so they could have products ready for them.

[New-400ex_guy]

chad it is the same motor as the dirt bike so they already had a kit for it for along time ago.

btw why would you buy the 450 kit when all you need is a cam, pipe,carb, filter kit and your pushing 46hp. thats all gt thunder is doing to get 46. and thats with no headwork. no need to bore it yet ;).

[ChadEXer]

I cant wait to see some at the drag strips:D

[Scott]

I'm curious about how it's bored at all. Is it re-sleeved instead? 'Zuki isn't using a steel cylinder wall, it's some sort of coating according to them, so if that's the case would you even be able to bore it? Would it have to have the coating re-applied if you tried to bore it out? Is this a more expensive process than what we typically think of as a rebuild?

Anybody have any answers? Where's Guy at, he's got experience with the 'Zuki's.

[Zero Z400]

I don't see why they are making a 450. I think everyone would want a 440 so they could race in that class. I rather have the GT Thunder setup anyways.


Later

[Guy400]

Scott, from what I gather the Suzuki nickasil cylinder lining is very hard and withstands a couple piston/ring changes before a bore job is needed. But you're right, when it is bore time the cylinder will need to be recoated. I remember reading once about how much it costs to do but can't recall at this time. I don't remember it being too overwhelming though.

[RideRed04]

Just as a side note, this is the first quad racer to use the coating, first quad if I'm not mistaken. Too bad they didnt keep the kick starter as a back up. I think it is funny that honda kept the kick starter on the 300 utility, but didnt use it on the 300ex (same engine, a bit of trivia for y'all)

[NJ300ex]

I know in my yamaha jet ski they use a similar coating and you actually can't bore the jug. It can only be honed and after awhile you just need to get new cylinders. This is for a 2 stroke though but i thought i would throw this in.

[harebounder]

I have had the cylinders renikasiled on my snowmobile don't remember what it actually cost but wasn't that much if you guys do it better to have the porting done then have the nikasil run right through the ports. Makes the ports even smoother.

[JustRace]

I believe that the 500cc 250r uses the nickasil coating.

[Pro400EXC]

WOW, all that work,and it now makes the same HP that a STOCK yz400f makes,ain't that amazing what some bucks will get yah? Freaky,don't even say a word,cause that Z400 isn't De-tuned anymore.

Alos,now that it is a 450, and the CRF-R is a 450, they should be rivals, oh thats right, the stock CRF-R makes 50hp,sry

I don't mean to sound smart,if i sound that way,it comes natural,haha.:confused:

I always wondered,what the dyno readings of a Ported,polished,piped,camed,and bored CRF-R would make? Maybe 59hp?or even 70hp?who knows.

Thks,Pro

[JustRace]

Man mellow out

The 450 kit doesn't say what it has done to it. other than its a stroker with a drz carb with a 178 main jet.

GT Thunder gets 46+hp out of just cams, exhaust, and a different carb. And thats more than a stock YZ426.

[Guy400]

Originally posted by Pro400EXC
WOW, all that work,and it now makes the same HP that a STOCK yz400f makes,ain't that amazing what some bucks will get yah? Freaky,don't even say a word,cause that Z400 isn't De-tuned anymore.

Alos,now that it is a 450, and the CRF-R is a 450, they should be rivals, oh thats right, the stock CRF-R makes 50hp,sry

I don't mean to sound smart,if i sound that way,it comes natural,haha.:confused:

I always wondered,what the dyno readings of a Ported,polished,piped,camed,and bored CRF-R would make? Maybe 59hp?or even 70hp?who knows.

Thks,Pro Congratulations, your EX makes as much horsepower as my small 1946 Farmall tractor. Wonder what kind of horsepower our Allis-Chalmers D17 would make with a bore job, cam and higher compression? My point is, who cares. You seem to be on a crusade to prove that the DRZ powerplant isn't in the same league with the CRF & YZF bikes. Guess what, it wasn't meant to. Suzuki hasn't marketed this bike to be a four stroke motocrosser and in the present variation of the motor it's not. You don't see factory Suzuki support behind a DRZ at an AMA Supercross event. It's like saying the '92 Ford Cobra 302 sucks because it's only putting out 300hp when the old '69 Z28 302 was putting out well over 400hp with older technology. Two different cars, two different purposes. Two different bikes, two different purposes.

Lemme guess, the Cannondale motors suck as well because the 432cc Speed is only putting out mid 40's in the horsepower department.

[Zero Z400]

Good post guytl250. Just cuz Suzuki came out with a quad w/ all the good features and urs is missing some doesn't mean u need to slam on it. No i'm not saying the 400ex is bad its just slightly dated. Also, quads don't have the speed dirt bikes do and the yz226f has about 26 more cc than the drz. If suzuki made it bigger they could probaly get near the same hp.


Later

[RideRed04]

26cc? That is a weed wacker. It isnt the displacement that makes the differance. It is all in the porting, compression, exaust design, intake design, stuff like that.

[Scott]

OK ridered, so by your logic, all these guys getting 416s, 426s, or even 440 kits (most of which are actually 432cc kits) are all wasting their time and money and lying about the power increases?

Or maybe that 26cc's only matters if it's on your Honda...:huh


You guys can't bash the other brand-loyal people on other sites about their assanine (sp?) comments in one post and then in another post do the same thing with Honda's. I'm meaning the exriders members in general ridered, I'm not picking on you personnaly.

Look at what the posts have been on the subject of the Z400, Raptor, or any other sportquad when it's introduced. Some of you guys refuse to even consider than another manufaturer might produce a better machine than what you have. If you go back far enough, the YZ's used to dominate MX, then the CR's bumped them off the top of the heap. It's called progress. Change is inevitible.

[Z400central]

Take the dodge viper for example, its only putting out 500HP and its 8.3 fricken liters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats HUGE! and its putting out WEAK numbers! look at say the mclaren, 6.2 liters i believe, V12.....and puts out 600+ HP!!!! the BMW engine was designed with technology, the dodge? dodge is saying "we need more power,,,aaaaaaah **** just bore it out!"

[Tommy 17]

i don't think that a bore really makes that much of a differnce if its a small bore... now if u go from 400 to 440 or something bigger u will notice it... but i think like the 406 and 416 are similar and the 416 and 426 are similar... its all on the cams,porting, pipes, carbs, etc...


1st role of a engine... u can get more air in if u can't get more air out and u can't get more air out if u can't get more air in!!!!

[Scott]

The Honda S-2000 is getting 240hp out of a normally aspirated 2.0L. For the Viper to match that efficiency, their 8.3L would have to crank out 996hp without adding any blower, turbo, boost, or nitrous. And they'd have to do it on 92 octane.

[Zero Z400]

Admit that their i are better atv than yours. But just when Honda comes out with a new one and it will dominate racing again. Just upgrade ur atv now so u can beat some stock z's and hope they don't have to much money on hand.


Later

[freakystone]

Zero... I am glad to see you too have a Z, but come on... You dont have to go and say "Admit that their i are better atv than yours." Better for what? Maybe the EX is better for what they do. If the guy had an ugly chick would you say "Admit it buddy that I have a pretty chick and yours is a mutt?"

Show some class pal.

[JustRace]

I like the Z. I think it is a ALL AROUND better quad, but I don't think it is the best at everything. Considering I only have 6000 into my EX and that includes the price I payed for it so I'm happy with it.

[Evan]

Originally posted by zero
No i'm not saying the 400ex is bad its just slightly dated.


Dated? Huh the only thing dated about the 400 is the engine, your Z holds most of the same components chassis wise as a 400EX, CUZ THEY COPIED THE DARN THING JUST LIKE YAMAHA DID WITH THE RAPTOR. I am sorry I cant justify selling my 400 just to get a few more hp and get reverse and most likey loose reliability, and who knows what else can go wrong. If I wanted reverse I would have kept riding my Scrambler. My 400s light enough that I can get off and turn it around or just do a donut.


Originally posted by Scott
Look at what the posts have been on the subject of the Z400, Raptor, or any other sportquad when it's introduced. Some of you guys refuse to even consider than another manufaturer might produce a better machine than what you have. If you go back far enough, the YZ's used to dominate MX, then the CR's bumped them off the top of the heap. It's called progress. Change is inevitible.

Huh thats funny everyone thought the raptor would dominate at the tracks too, I can count on one hand how many I race against. Your right I want even consider another quad but Honda, except maybe a c-dale speed. Why? Well I dont think there is a better combination from a manufacturer out there. Great proven reliability, great handling, overall ergonomics(not that it matters). The only reason I would consider the speed is the have some great never b4 seen ideas and so far except the first glitches, dont seem to have problems, the only thing that holds me back is the availibility of parts and aftermarket. Also the price, which is ok for what you are getting but I would rather buy used and upgrade than buy new. Also prove to me that the there is better machine than what I have, a 250R and a 400EX, both proably the greatest quads of all time, each good in different respects. When yamaha makes a yz426 hi-per quad, and honda makes a crf450ex, and suzuki makes a radical z400 like Gusts, then I will start shopping for another quad. Untill then Z's and Raptors are just mere mudpuddles on the trail/track

[Nausty]

I've ridden most of the sport quads besides the z400 but I really don't think the raptors, z400's and all these new quads arn't really that much better for the more money you pay for them. You can buy a 400ex for less and mod it to be the best mx'er or gnc'er for a 4 stroke but the cannondale might be taking those away and those are the only real quads besides the 400ex I would consider if I didn't have a 400ex and had the money.

[Guy400]

Let's face it, the 400EX is going the way of the dinosaur. It's a great bike and he!!, I was about 2 steps away from buying one, but there's better stuff on the horizon and I'll hold onto by 5 grand for another year just to make sure. As good as the 400EX is, there's better stuff coming so we all might as well face up to that fact. The real hinderance to the EX is the air cooling. If it was water cooled more, safer horespower would be attainable. You guys going to talk the same bad stuff about the possible CRF450EX? I mean, comparitively speaking, the CRF has the same power range as the DRZ. A little lacking in the bottom end department compared to the EX but makes up for it in the mid-top range. You guys still going to talk about "usable horsepower" of the EX or because it says Honda on it the CRF is just what the doctor ordered even though it'll have the same power characteristics as the DRZ? Would you really be happy if the new Honda sport quad was an air-cooled 4-stroke with "usable horsepower" but was still down compared to the Z, Cannondale, maybe the Bomb, etc.?

[4punksdad]

just ride the damn thing & let the quad speak for itself. when we hit the first watering hole you can tell me how fast you were going.

[RideRed04]

Originally posted by Scott
OK ridered, so by your logic, all these guys getting 416s, 426s, or even 440 kits (most of which are actually 432cc kits) are all wasting their time and money and lying about the power increases?

Or maybe that 26cc's only matters if it's on your Honda...:huh


You guys can't bash the other brand-loyal people on other sites about their assanine (sp?) comments in one post and then in another post do the same thing with Honda's. I'm meaning the exriders members in general ridered, I'm not picking on you personnaly.

Look at what the posts have been on the subject of the Z400, Raptor, or any other sportquad when it's introduced. Some of you guys refuse to even consider than another manufaturer might produce a better machine than what you have. If you go back far enough, the YZ's used to dominate MX, then the CR's bumped them off the top of the heap. It's called progress. Change is inevitible.

I agree, I was just trying to point out that you dont get the hp from the bore. If all you did was bore your engine, you would see very little gain. To affectively use the extra displacement, you need a better cam, higher compression, etc. He was saying that if suzuki made the drz a 426 it would have the hp of the yz, and I was just telling him that there is more to it.

I agree that the 400ex engine sucks compared to others out there. It is a great trail engine, but I sometimes wish there was more there. I am not brand loyal, but I wont be buying a z400 (at least for a while) because I just got my 400ex, I dont have the money, and it is still unproven.

I have absolutely nothing against suzuki, infact I love what they are doing, and hope they inspire some others. Why do we all want honda to stick the crf engine in? I want them to design an engine for the quad!

[Zero Z400]

Originally posted by RideRed04
I want them to design an engine for the quad! Yeah i think they need to make whole new engines for quads. Becuase u don't ride a quad like u do a dirt bike. I think atvs need more torque and hp becuase they're heavier. If Suzuki made their dr-z motor a 426 it would match the yz-f's hp becuase i don't suzuki would just bore it out, they would make everything in proportion to the engine size. But i don't think they would want change the comp. ratio.


Later

[Pro400EXC]

I am sry about my last post,I didn't mean to get ya'll upset. But I would like to say some things about Honda and the others.

I souly think (not to sound like a prick),but if Honda wanted to make a better quad that would put everything to same they could,and maybe will one day. Also,if the Quad scene was more popular than Dirtbikes we would see better quads.
And as soon as this stupid 2stroke Ban comes into affect,Honda will pump out some bad***** 4strokes,and so will the others,but in my opinion,Honda is ahead and has more technology than the others,to build better stuff.

Just look at what and all Honda is involved in.
1. Formula 1 2. C.A.R.T 3. Automobiles 4.Dirtbikes ($80k CR250's $80k!!!) 4. and various other road rtacing and off-road stuff.

Ok,now look at Suzuki,Yamaha,Kawasaki,etc. They are only involved in Motorcycle racing (with the exception of some Suzuki cars),but I mean look at the technology between F1 and Motorcycle racing.

I mean,look at the CRF's piston, that is Formula 1 style right there.

Also,they have a Robot,that is just like a human in every way, A Freakin Human ROBOT!!! Now,who esle has that??????

So the proof is in the pudding, Honda has what they need to build a 30hp xr50, and a 100hp cr500,but they won't,and know one will.
So...until then, we will have to wait,and wait, and wait and well........you get the point

Until then,Peace
Pro

[Guy400]

Let's face it, if any of these manufacturers wanted to build a quad that would simply crush the competition they could. What holds them back is the ever present threat of lawsuits and the all-mighty dollar. A quad that you're describing fits a very narrow market share, one not big enough to pay for the R&D required and wouldn't appeal to a wide enough market (therefore offering little to no profit margin). When any of these companies want to get serious about something they prove they can make winners. Can anyone question the GSX-R series of bikes or the R1/R6? Nope. How about Suzuki's Escudo racer? 1000hp from a 2.7 liter V6! They were over 10mph faster than the world record last year when about 3/4 of the way up the hill a front suspension bolt snapped.

As far as Honda in F1, it's a joke. They're plagued with problems and just finally scored their first point (nearly halfway through the season!). It's no secret that Honda may pull the plug on the F1 venture. They've got serious reliability issues and don't make near the HP of their competitors. Right now, saying you run a Honda engine in F1 is like saying you're riding an LT80 against the pro's 350 powervalve.

[Zero Z400]

Atv's do outsell dirtbikes, but thats including utilitys and sport quads, not just high-performance machines. Like guy said, they all got the technology but they don't think/know if the have the money and if people will buy it. I agree Honda may have a slight edge, they could probaly produce the most reliable engine, but i'm giving suzuki a slight edge for now cuz it seems like they might back-up their new quad. Robots have nothing to do with atvs, just cuz they can build it doesn't mean they can/are going to imply it in an atv. Until it turns into the late 80's, Suzuki will have the egde. IMO


Later

[RideRed04]

Originally posted by Zero Z400
...Until it turns into the late 80's...

There was only 5 high preformance quads in the 80's.

[harebounder]

Some of you guys are just missing the nail with the hammer. It's not if they can build the machine or if they have the technology. If they feel the research and money spent on the project will have a return then they will go ahead with the program. They are in the business to make money not to build a quad close to everyones dream quad. Suzuki and cannondale are a step ahead of the competition right now and the way it looks kawasaki will be too. The issue that these companys have that honda doesn't is the question of realiability. I think that if honda come out with a whole new machine alot of people wouldn't question there realiability as much. How much have they changed the 400 since it came out beside fourtrax, sportrax, stuff like that no real big change. As far as what honda has to worry about. They can wait as long as they want. They are still the top seller and right now have to come out with a new quad. Until then lets hope these manufacturers put a spark in honda.

[Pro400EXC]

Yah,your guys are right, the time and Money Lost.

Haha,could you imagine though,if Bill Gates son was a ATV Racer? he would have his own Semi,and Probably Buy a Custom Build Factory Honda race quad or something.

Also Guy, them lil Escudo's are bad som bytches.

Have ya'll seen that Ford Dune Buggy deal?It looks pretty trick.


I don't wanna sell my sole to the Yellow devil,so i am gonna just sit it out,and wait.....

Also,what are you guys keep talking about? Suzuki Raising the Bar,in the High-Performance Quads? All it is basiclly is a 400ex with a newer Technology Motor,nothing special, now C-dales oon the other Hand,them jockers brought some crazy new stuff out,and its awsome.

One More thing,if Honda made a Aluminum Framed ATV,would it probably be better than the C-dales,since they been making Aluminumn Framed Dirtbikes the longest,and finally got all the bugs out?

Thanks,Pro

[harebounder]

Honda makes aluminum framed dirtbike too don't they.

[Pro400EXC]

Yes they do, and not to tute Honda horn,but they also have the lightest production 250 dirtbike on the market, it is actually 1lb heavier than your allowed to run in the Pro AMA MX events, so thats pretty light, then add all the Ti stuff and all,and you probably loose 7 lbs.

Now thats as light as a 125 almost,haha sweeet

[Zero Z400]

Are you telling me that updated 400ex is a bad thing? Cannondale will probaly make a better frame sometime, they need to do more r&d, they bike frames are some bad@$$ *****. I also think tthat Honda would have to beef up the aluminum frame cuz quads are like twice as heavy.


Later

[Zero Z400]

Originally posted by RideRed04


There was only 5 high preformance quads in the 80's.
Yeah but the manufacturers were backing up with teams.


Later

[freakystone]

Quads? What about all atv's:

- Tri-Z
- Tecate
- Tecate 4
- LT250
- LT500
- ATC 250R
- TRX 250R

You might have to include:
- ATC 200X - In 1984 it was the trike to have
- ATC 350X

[NJ300ex]

If honda was to make an aluminum quad frame, which i doubt, I sure hope the welds would be hella better then whats on my frame now.

[Pro400EXC]

Hey Guy, I know the Honda isn';t doing all that well in F1, but how about in there C.A.R.T racing? There cars always seem to be doing well in CART.

Alos,isn't it like the CART cars make more H.P than F1,but they wiegh more,and that sets them back?

Thks HammerHeads,
Pro

[Guy400]

The CART engines are turbocharged, that's how they make 900hp. F1 is producing a hair over 800hp on a naturally aspirated motor.

Guyes, where are you getting the info on the specs to get that 46 HP without the 450 bore

This is right off the page:



Yoshimura has been working closely with Suzuki developing performances exhaust and parts for the much anticipated Z400 Quad. A full line of exhaust from slip-on to full titanium Pro system is available now!

With a full factory support offroad DRZ400 team, it is only logical to tap into their resource to make big horsepower for the LTZ400. With a 450 stroker kit and Pro Exhaust System, the Z Quad was making 46+ horsepower!

With a 30lb weight advantage, the LTZ450 can take on any Raptor, anytime!
P?

Not saying the above is only possible w\ bore, I would like to read about the cam\carb\exhaust mod without the 450 bore and still get the HP!

Where is the link?

[Guy400]

GTV, go to GT Thunder's web site. That's where the dyno was posted that showed the 46 hp. To be honest, I sorta wondered the same the myself. How did it take a 450 kit from Yoshi to make 46hp but GT Thunder did it with just a cam/intake/exhaust. I doubt GT Thunder is lying though.

[harebounder]

Gtthunder.com I couldn't drop the link. It wouldn't let me.

[doctor_915]

I am betting that pretty soon quads are gonna be just like computers, one month you got the fastest best thing out, next month Dell comes out with something bigger than your Gateway and yours is not the fastest anymore....it's getting redicoulus to try and constantly have the fastest or most powerful quad, no matter what your gonna get what makes you happy and whatever brand you choose for whatever reason. Sure the other brand might have the cons in your eyes but in someone elses eyes that brand has all the pros.