could 250r still compete with 450s

[slamdak8782]

What would it take to make a 250r demolish a built yamaha yfz450 or honda 450r. Keep in mind that the 450 would stay at the same bore limit but any other mods would be exceptable. The 250r could do anything as long as its limit didnt exceed 450ccs. Could it still compete at motocross and cross country ?

[LTZ400rider]

i dont think the 250R would ever be as competitive as the 450s, unless u wanna sacrafice alot of reliably. id take a 250R just becuz they are like riding a whole diff machine. i think 2 strokes make u feel like ur riding, and u can feel it at the end of day when ur sore.
i dont think a 250R would ever demolish a 450, but it can be competitive. my stock z400 was neck and beck with a highly modded 310R. i think the highest u wanna bore it out is a 350, they might make more but i know id keep it below a 350.

[LT250Racer609]

i race quad A/B on my lonestar 250R..all it has is a 265 sleeve thats ported and polished, piped and has a boyseen rad valve with carbon fiber reeds

2 weeks ago i won the class on my 250R...my 250r walks by 400 ex's and z 400's like they are in reverse and can hang with a 450 untill about low 5th gear...it all depends how your quad is set-up...you can easily get your quad to go by 450's by in a MX race it comes down to the rider

as simple as a 265, you should be right there with 450's...then a 310 you will watch them as you go by them, 330 goodbye and 350 well you know what it would be like...

if you'd really wanna get serious you can get into the power valve motors....

[LT250Racer609]

and as far as reliability, i havent had a problem with my 250R motor since i have started racing it...my first problem was last week when my throttle cable snapped but thats understandable because it can happen to anyone not just a 250R

Originally posted by slamdak8782
What would it take to make a 250r demolish a built yamaha yfz450 or honda 450r. Keep in mind that the 450 would stay at the same bore limit but any other mods would be exceptable. The 250r could do anything as long as its limit didnt exceed 450ccs. Could it still compete at motocross and cross country ?

So you're saying you could take the R up to a 450? Well hell yes it would kick the crap out of any 450 4 stroke then! Same CC's but one is a 2 stroke and the other a 4, no contest!!

[Mxjunkie]

The guy I work with has a full roll/houser/axis 330r he allways gets the holeshot over the 450s and beats them alot of the time.

[TheFontMaster]

If they still allowed 250r's in the pro production class, they would still be dominating.

LTZ400rider, they guy that you were racing must not have been too good at racing, because there is no other way you could be neck and neck.

[LT250Racer609]

yah your buddys 310R was obv. running like complete a*s or he doesnt know how to ride at all but even a poor rider should still beat a Z400 in a drag race when your on a 310 R...a good running, well kept 310 will pull on most if not all 450's

i havent seen a 250r at any MX races even local for a loooong time, arent they banned, or is that just gncc

[Mxjunkie]

Its the pro production class's and such because they have to run stock frames and such, and if they want to be sponsored they have to run the 4 strokes, I'd almost bet chris borich would still be on a 250r he was one of the last people to switch.

i dont even know what mx class your run because here its quad 4 stroke a,b, and open class, no 2 stroke, and if you could only run in open there could be trx470rs and such, so i dont think it would have a chance

[Ryan]

Originally posted by aLLoY MX 428
i dont even know what mx class your run because here its quad 4 stroke a,b, and open class, no 2 stroke, and if you could only run in open there could be trx470rs and such, so i dont think it would have a chance

But if its open, build the 250r up to a 350cc (Power valve).

That is, if money isn't much of a factor. But the 250r can keep up with any of the 450's, mod for mod.

But as far as I know, there is still 250cc class (s)

[SRH]

i think if i wanted a r and i was looking to race id keep my eyes out for a roll design quad with a 330 or a pv motor ive seen a couple of them go around 6-8k

[Mxjunkie]

Yeah srh, the roll frames are nice they handle like a dream, I guess I kinda spoiled my self by riding one now I'm going to hate my banshee :o

Originally posted by Mxjunkie69
Yeah srh, the roll frames are nice they handle like a dream, I guess I kinda spoiled my self by riding one now I'm going to hate my banshee :o save yourself the dissapointment and buy another dirtbike :p

[SRH]

Originally posted by aLLoY MX 428
save yourself the dissapointment and buy another dirtbike :p

why aree u here

not really on topic, but I didnt think this question would need a new thread...Do 400EX's still have a chance against the 450s in MX? Like a total MX 400?

[DeerNuts]

Originally posted by nofearrider1
.Do 400EX's still have a chance against the 450s in MX? Like a total MX 400?

Of course they do. They have more than a chance. Its rider that makes difference. Why would you think a 400ex wouldnt have a chance?

[Atkins]

I know my 310R has like double the acceleration as my stock YFZ, and goes easily 100 mph.

[DeerNuts]

Originally posted by LTZ400rider
i think 2 strokes make u feel like ur riding, and u can feel it at the end of day when ur sore.


WTH? And a 4stroke doesnt? What is the difference?:huh

[DeerNuts]

Originally posted by Atkins
I know my 310R has like double the acceleration as my stock YFZ, and goes easily 100 mph.

Double the acceleration and 100mph. Please put down your bong.


:rolleyes:

Originally posted by SRH
why aree u here im joking, its a long story between me and josh:o

[Quadude32]

Originally posted by aLLoY MX 428
i havent seen a 250r at any MX races even local for a loooong time, arent they banned, or is that just gncc


You must not go to alot of local races then. Here in MI there still one of the most popular Quads at the track. A 310 or 330PV kit would do the trick against the 450'S .But like it was said it s all the rider.You could have the fastest Quad out there but if it doesnt handle well then your in trouble.It's all in the setup for MX Racing

[LTZ400rider]

Originally posted by DeerNuts
WTH? And a 4stroke doesnt? What is the difference?:huh

maybe its just me i think 2 strokes make u feel like ur riding cuz its constantly rippin ur arms off when u least expect it, on a for stroke the power band isnt unexpected, thats just me i guess?

[TheIceMan]

You could have the fastest Quad out there but if it doesnt handle well then your in trouble.It's all in the setup for MX Racing EXACTLY!! talent of rider and bike setup is what matters.
Four strokes (for the most part) are more user friendly,where as a two stroke needs more rider input (clutching out of corners,etc).

[slamdak8782]

So the answer is a pretty much unanamous yes. Wow I would love to see a old versus new race with all the pros involved. Half on two strokes half on 450s. Ithink that the factory racing teams would pitch a fit. It would be great to see some of the so called old technology versus the new. Could you imagine the R with updates powervalves nikasil linings maybe fuel injection. If only there hadnt been the consent decree I wonder where atving would be now. Probably would be bigger than Nascar.

[muddy400EX]

i bet there is still some pros that have their old 250's and ride them and would race them if they had a choice

[kwatts400]

I'd bet even Ballance would still be on his r.

[MrP]

I would take a Sparks 265 powervalve anyday over my 450 race quads if it were allowed in the prod. classes. If 2 strokes were still allowed in the pro class I bet you Jeremiah Jones would be a 4 time National Champion. Also my 2 strokes were just as reliable as any of my 4 strokes.

[PeeWee21]

I agree with ^^^^, Jones is dam fast on a 2 stroke. Look at the prior years when Farr, Ellis, Gust, Byrd, and a host of others were riding hybrids. Jones, Hitt, Little and others were still winning on the generic R. The 250R will be the legend of atv's when it comes to mx, everything that has been and is to come will be compared to it. I think a 265 PV R could and will put it on any of the 450's. I see them smoke them every weekend!

[slamdak8782]

Anybody else with thoughts on this?

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by Quadude32
You must not go to alot of local races then. Here in MI there still one of the most popular Quads at the track. A 310 or 330PV kit would do the trick against the 450'S .But like it was said it s all the rider.You could have the fastest Quad out there but if it doesnt handle well then your in trouble.It's all in the setup for MX Racing i sure would like to know what tracks you race in michigan....i havent been to a race in 7 weeks due to a broken ankle, but before that i was running ama races in michigan every weekend...it was all 450's...i dont even remember seeing 1 250r.

[nacs400ex]

Originally posted by LTZ400rider
i dont think the 250R would ever be as competitive as the 450s, unless u wanna sacrafice alot of reliably. id take a 250R just becuz they are like riding a whole diff machine. i think 2 strokes make u feel like ur riding, and u can feel it at the end of day when ur sore.
i dont think a 250R would ever demolish a 450, but it can be competitive. my stock z400 was neck and beck with a highly modded 310R. i think the highest u wanna bore it out is a 350, they might make more but i know id keep it below a 350.

WHAT?! HAHAHA If you seriously think you can run neck and neck with a highly modified 310R, you must have the fastest stock Z400 suzuki ever made.

If a highly modified 310 is done properly, it SHOULD make a crying shame out of a 450.

As for sacraficing reliability, whats that supposed to mean. If you know how to do preventitive maintenence, your gunna have more rebuild costs with a 4-stroke (trx or yfz) then you will with ANY 2-stroke.There's half the parts. no cams or valves and all the wonderfully expensive things when it comes time to mod or rebuild. FACT

I'm guessing you were running neck and neck with a highly modified 300ex.:rolleyes:

[nacs400ex]

Originally posted by aLLoY MX 428
i dont even know what mx class your run because here its quad 4 stroke a,b, and open class, no 2 stroke, and if you could only run in open there could be trx470rs and such, so i dont think it would have a chance

God have mercy not a trx470. Ever see a saber kit for the 250r. Bolt on 500cc kit, I dont think any YFZ or trx450 is gunna touc h that. Theres fast 4-strokes, and then even faster 2-strokes.

If the pro-production class didnt come into effect, you wouldnt see a sea of 450s out there. Id bet it would be about half and half, mostly based on personal riding preference.

[LT250Racer609]

god nacs what ur saying is like music to my ears:D sooo true EVERY word of it

[LT250Racer609]

now my uncle races pro open for TT on quads....he runs a ported and polished Quadzilla (as most you know its a 500 CC 2 stroke)

hes the only 2 stroke in the line...all the rest are 450's with 520 big bore kits and cams bla bla on and on...the funny thing is no matter HOW MUCH is done to any 4 stroke...the quadzilla still makes them as if they arent moving forward, more like they are in reverse

i bring this up because any 250r can be brought to this level also...the level which no 450 can run at...and a ported and polished PV310R would more then likely be the minimal to do that...then you move onto PV330 and PV350 and god the 2 stroke is almost out of sight now

4 strokes FEEL like they are faster because they have a different transfer of power...they make TORQUE which is the power to carry around hay bales and large amounts of weight and anyone can get on a thumper and ride it...throw them on a 2 stroke and its a whole different story

half of the people who believe that a 250R cant run with a 450 have either NEVER owned a 250r or have never seen a properly built 250r up against a 450 because it turns into a whole different story

[nacs400ex]

Originally posted by LT250Racer609


half of the people who believe that a 250R cant run with a 450 have either NEVER owned a 250r or have never seen a properly built 250r up against a 450 because it turns into a whole different story

Couldn't agree more.

[FoxRacing81]

If any Pro could run a 250r, Jones and Ballance still would. And they would dominate everyone, IMO.

[deathman53]

we'll have a fair comparism when my 88 250r project is completed. I have a 03 crf450r lsr quad and I'm building a 88 250r, I'm gonna put +3 lts on it, elka's all around, a stock like motor for now. the following year I will work on the motor, 310pv, pipe, carb, reeds, cr igntion. I ride a atc with a 310pv and I believe that the 310pv w/all the goodies in the quad would be a real close chase to the 450, the fact remains it all comes down to rider. I was riding my quad the past 2 day and my trike on saturday(well, until I locked up the tranny) and the 4 stroke is so much less fatigueing than the 2 stroke, uses less gas and doesn't require as much rider skill to effectly use the power. A fast rider on the 2 stroke will be just as fast on the 4 stroke. 2 strokes are falling out of favor because of the greater number of competetion, the fact that you can buy one NEW that hasn't been molested in every way and that all the future is with 4 strokes, like it or not, this is why 4 strokes are taking over. I personally find my 2 stroke to me ALOT easier to start, kick it will all your mite and give it a bit of gas, verses the 4 stroke, neutral, find top dead, hot start and whale it and if it doesn't start repeat the process. My 2 stroke generally starts within 3 kicks cold, 2 hot, I can't say that about my 4 stroke.

[SRH]

250rs are capable, no doubt, especially worked, i prefer 4 strokes and love my yfz, its made for me and im super comfortable so i can go fast on it,

think about this say the yfz is a better quad, your not comfortable on it, it doesnt fit your style and you gotta race it, and your r was perfect for your style ...your gonna be going faster on your r, unless you have plans of racing for a long time and going pro id stick with the r or get the r, if thats waht you want, a new 450 is great if thats what you like but if its not whats the point to spending 7 grand on one

Originally posted by SRH
250rs are capable, no doubt, especially worked, i prefer 4 strokes and love my yfz, its made for me and im super comfortable so i can go fast on it,

think about this say the yfz is a better quad, your not comfortable on it, it doesnt fit your style and you gotta race it, and your r was perfect for your style ...your gonna be going faster on your r, unless you have plans of racing for a long time and going pro id stick with the r or get the r, if thats waht you want, a new 450 is great if thats what you like but if its not whats the point to spending 7 grand on one agreed, its all in rider preferance

[kwatts400]

Originally posted by aLLoY MX 428
agreed, its all in rider preferance

Yep, its all preferance. I love riding both of my bikes.

[slamdak8782]

I'm not from the old school but I have an HRC 450r that is giving me fits. I built my 400ex to beat this bike and the farther and farther I go I realize I'm sacrificing reliability for it. I know with a little more work Icould get there. But then Ive reached a point where money has made the point of beating it foolish. that is another great fact about 250r's Nobody is going to say wow you put all that money in it to just barely beat a 450r. With the 250r people would be like damn that bike is so tight I havent seen one in forever and, I wish I hadnlt sold mine. I should have just put the 7000 grand in my R:)

[nacs400ex]

Funny thing is if you put $7000 in an R, it's gunna do more then barely beat a 450. Its gunna damn well put it to shame LOL.

But your right, it sure is sweet when your riding. 250rs make people turn their heads, just like muscle cars do. Everyone notices them, just because they are what they are. No explanation needed.