Gusseting Frame Questions

[FoxRacing81]

I want to gusset my frame myself, but I have some questions.

I already know where to gusset the frame at, but what kind of metal should I use for the gussets?

What kind of welder? I have a stick welder and was hoping to get away with that by maybe just buying a different kind of rod.

My dad wants to know if the frame is straight steel or alloy.

And anything else you think I should know.

Thanks guys
-Justin

[MadMax27]

I used my GMAW (MIG). I used carbon steel 3/16" plate, Hot Rolled.

I would saw the frame does have some impurities. Say Carbon. The Carbon steel took very well to it. I wouldve used Flux wire, but the .035" steel, with Argon makes such a better penetration, and its more resiliant.

If you have a steady hand, you can do body work with a ARC. I wouldnt suggest it, but Ive seen crazier stuff....

there is a lot more to gussiting a frame than one would think. not saying I know any more than the next guy. but, if you weld around a pice of the frame, instead of along the frame. it will make a "etch" in the frame and will crack raight next to your weld.

I wouldent reccomend stick. maby a welding shop would do it for you. I work part time in a welding shop and we get some pretty wierd jobs.

[440ex#28]

I would say use a TIG welder. They produse much stronger and purer welds than MIG, and stick. but i would have a local welding shop do it just to make sure thay its done right. the stock frame is steel and i would use 3/16 in. plate.

really a gas weld is better than a tig weld. Tig has a to concentrated of heat and will crack easier. but gas weld heats a bigger area and is stronger. and is really easy and cheep, all you need is some filler rod and a set of torches with a mixing tip.

[440ex#28]

Originally posted by mittimj
really a gas weld is better than a tig weld. Tig has a to concentrated of heat and will crack easier. but gas weld heats a bigger area and is stronger. and is really easy and cheep, all you need is some filler rod and a set of torches with a mixing tip.

Not if the TIG welding is done right. If your good at TIG is the Strongest weld that you can make. And TIG doesnt cause the area of weld to crack because when it is done right the arc evenly destributes the heat. You just need to know what your DOING!

then why was it a law that you had to gas weld instead of tig when wielding a plane frame together? because gas is stronger. tig has recently proved to meet the par but gas is still better.

[TRXRacer1]

Stick welding will work fine for this. As a matter of fact if you know what you’re doing it will work great. You’re going to want to use a 7018 electrode; it can handle the flex of the frame better then others and has a nice tensile strength (70,000 PSI). The 7018 is also made to work with carbon steel. Just be careful, those frames are pretty thin.

Now, if you were to use a MIG the wire size wouldn't really matter, it's just that some sizes are easier to work with in different applications. You will NOT get better penetration with a MIG over flux core, the MIG is just a lot cleaner. Flux core has been developed into a great way to weld steel because when you’re welding a skyscraper together a MIG is about useless due to it's sensitivity to wind. When your gas is blown away your penetration turns to crap. This is why stick and flux core are most commonly found in outdoor welding, they make their own environment hence not needing gas.

Now the TIG and gas welding debate is almost funny. They are about the same thing and they are BOTH the strongest, most accurate way of welding. They both can be done wrong and they both need skill to get just right. I couldn't tell anyone why an organization would require one over the other, that's just plain silly. The TIG does a cleaner job easier and is your most common way of welding aftermarket and custom frames.

Good luck and use the stick welder, just make sure you get the right electrodes, the wrong ones will be too brittle for an off-road application.

[MadMax27]

:huh Theres some smack in this thread. Who's gonna take the time to Tig a gusset, the strentgh properties between that and a GMAW are un-important because the frame steel would have folded before......

http://www.easternheatingcooling.com/images/gallery_hudson.jpg

Here's me welding atop a 400 ft bridge, no Flux.... I don't weld all day every day, but I do it enough.

Frame gussets = GMAW 3/16" carbon steel plain and simple..

[TRXRacer1]

Could you posts a smaller pic, lol. What are welding and what are you using to the job?

[MadMax27]

Sorry, pic was on opposing building, with one of those telefoto zoom deals.:D The pipe is stainless steel, 12". We installed de-humidefiers to dry out the area where the cables arc over the tip of the bridge. The idea is the wont corrode-rust as fast. Its crazy the anchors go underground about 100 yds after the bridge meets the land. All the fat steel cables are made up of small cables, like 14 AWG wire! The welder is a Miller ARC/Tig for the flanges, GMAW for the pipe joints. The mixture is Argon+ 1-2 % Oxygen for penetration.

Remember:

CO2 for Carbon

Argon, Helium+Argon for Aluminum

Argon + 1-2% O2

Cant go wrong with those gases.

For the frame Flux is just fine. :blah:

[TRXRacer1]

Originally posted by MadMax27
Sorry, pic was on opposing building, with one of those telefoto zoom deals.:D The pipe is stainless steel, 12". We installed de-humidefiers to dry out the area where the cables arc over the tip of the bridge. The idea is the wont corrode-rust as fast. Its crazy the anchors go underground about 100 yds after the bridge meets the land. All the fat steel cables are made up of small cables, like 14 AWG wire! The welder is a Miller ARC/Tig for the flanges, GMAW for the pipe joints. The mixture is Argon+ 1-2 % Oxygen for penetration.

Remember:

CO2 for Carbon

Argon, Helium+Argon for Aluminum

Argon + 1-2% O2

Cant go wrong with those gases.

For the frame Flux is just fine. :blah:
Cool stuff! I was a seminar for continuing ed last year and Lincoln Welding was there. They told us that most outdoor applications were flux core, made sense since I've had problems fitting pipe in the elements with gas shielding. I run flux core now on everything outdoors and have had great luck. In my experience I've been getting better penetration with the flux core for low amp applications then gas shielding anyway. Your 100% right, he'll be just fine with what he has for gusseting this frame.

[MadMax27]

Yeah Rawge, the gas is so concentrated that it allows for deep penetration. Flux is awesome for dirty metals, very tolerant.

[FoxRacing81]

EH...its a lot of work..and I don't have the proper tools...anyone know where I can buy a gusset kit?

-Justin