Piston

[tcr450r]

Alright, I dont really understand the piston thing and i need some help. I am getting the hotcams stage 2 cam in hopefully about 2 weeks. I also wanted to get a piston but I want to run pump gas (preferrably premium pump gas but anything will work as long as I dont have to run race gas). I wanted to know some good brands and what compression ratio to get. I also didnt understand that if u get an aftermarket piston, does that mean you have to bore it out or anything, or do you just change out the old and put in the new and you are ready to go? Thanx for nething.

[DH400EX]

u can get a 11:1 piston and run pump gas. most ppl use JE or Wiseco pistons.

[team_450_88]

If u wanna run pump gas get the JE 11:1 piston..If you get a standard bore piston, u do not half to bore it..If i was u I would go with the 13:1 JE Piston and go pick up some Turbo Blue race gas (115 oct. )and mix it with 93 pump gas or whatever ur highest grade pump is...I mix it, half and half but it doesnt need that much really u could run like say if its a 5 gallon can, 3 1/2 gallons of 93 and the rest race gas..but whatever u wanna do, 11:1 is strong 2 im sure

[tcr450r]

alright guys, thats for the help, I think I am going to go with the JE 11:1 standard piston just so i dont have to spend all that money on race fuel. Can neone give me a link to buy it off of. Thanx

[Punk'd]

How much of a diffrence will a JE 11:1 standard piston put over stock?

[trost66]

I know a few people who had the 11 -1 and they said it was a waste of money. They couldn't feel a difference. I went with a 13-8-1 and just run race fuel and it was like night and day difference

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by team_450_88
If u wanna run pump gas get the JE 11:1 piston..If you get a standard bore piston, u do not half to bore it..If i was u I would go with the 13:1 JE Piston and go pick up some Turbo Blue race gas (115 oct. )and mix it with 93 pump gas or whatever ur highest grade pump is...I mix it, half and half but it doesnt need that much really u could run like say if its a 5 gallon can, 3 1/2 gallons of 93 and the rest race gas..but whatever u wanna do, 11:1 is strong 2 im sure

When you are mixing fuel like that you are supposed to mix the race gas with the low grade fuel like 87 octane. It has to do with the additives they use to get the higher 93 octane rateing. Supposedly it actually comes out as a higher octane rateing when you use the lower grade stuff due to this.

Originally posted by Punk'd
How much of a diffrence will a JE 11:1 standard piston put over stock?

none...stock is 10.5:1 you might as well get 12:1 you can still get away with running pump and get the JE piston

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
When you are mixing fuel like that you are supposed to mix the race gas with the low grade fuel like 87 octane. It has to do with the additives they use to get the higher 93 octane rateing. Supposedly it actually comes out as a higher octane rateing when you use the lower grade stuff due to this.

actually when you mix a lower grade with a high octane like that, it doesnt so much give you a higher octane...it makes more of a differance then mixing it with the 93...for example...87+115 you may end up with 105 while 93+115 you may end up with 107...it makes more of a jump then the higher octane would, its not gonna be that close in octane obviously it will be farther apart but the 93+race gas will get you a higher octane then the low octane + race

[tcr450r]

How much is turbo blue race gas.

[trost66]

sunoco for around 4 dollars a gallon 110 octane

[TrX450rKiD]

Wait for the Hammerhedz 12.25:1 piston. You can run pump (93?) with that. It is coming from VCP withing a month I believe.

[iceracer65]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
none...stock is 10.5:1 you might as well get 12:1 you can still get away with running pump and get the JE piston

i noticed a nice difference with my 11.5:1 piston on pump gas.

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by TrX450rKiD
Wait for the Hammerhedz 12.25:1 piston. You can run pump (93?) with that. It is coming from VCP withing a month I believe.



how do you think mixxer's 12.25:1 will compare with another 13:1?? i really would like to get around 13:1 (but i dont' want to go to 14:1) but his pistons aren't coming in that ratio. maybe i should be asking this question over at the org. :D

unless he could custom one for me :ermm:

Originally posted by cals400ex
how do you think mixxer's 12.25:1 will compare with another 13:1?? i really would like to get around 13:1 (but i dont' want to go to 14:1) but his pistons aren't coming in that ratio. maybe i should be asking this question over at the org. :D

unless he could custom one for me :ermm:

im sure his piston will be just a replica of sparks, the JE high comp with a special heat coating so you can run a higher comp then u would normally be able 2

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
im sure his piston will be just a replica of sparks, the JE high comp with a special heat coating so you can run a higher comp then u would normally be able 2


his piston is different from sparks. he took a CP piston and patented some things on it. it is a 2 ring piston. weight was removed. he used a special piston pin. valve holes were cut cut larger so you can use oversized valves. the dome was redesigned to get a better burn. he also doesn't recommend the thermal coating on the piston. pistons are designed to get up to a certain temperature so they will expand with the sleeve. if the piston is thermal coated it will not expand at the proper rate. if the piston was built a slightly different size (for thermal coating) it could be coated and made for the sleeve.

Originally posted by cals400ex
his piston is different from sparks. he took a CP piston and patented some things on it. it is a 2 ring piston. weight was removed. he used a special piston pin. valve holes were cut cut larger so you can use oversized valves. the dome was redesigned to get a better burn. he also doesn't recommend the thermal coating on the piston. pistons are designed to get up to a certain temperature so they will expand with the sleeve. if the piston is thermal coated it will not expand at the proper rate. if the piston was built a slightly different size (for thermal coating) it could be coated and made for the sleeve.

i dont like 2 ring pistons...u gotta change the rings 2 damn often :(

[cals400ex]

i thought sparks had a 2 ring piston?? maybe not.


this piston (hammerhead) is designed to be a full race piston. it is much lighter and less friction than the 3-ring setups. i am not sure how often you need to change the rings but i guess i will find out.

[devil6]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
im sure his piston will be just a replica of sparks, the JE high comp with a special heat coating so you can run a higher comp then u would normally be able 2
WRONG!!! http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=8390

John doesen't copy anybody,ever! No one has EVER come up with a piston like this one. It's gonna be bad ***** period. This is gonna be the piston by wich all others are judged. Just look at the spec's of it.

Originally posted by devil6
WRONG!!! http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=8390

John doesen't copy anybody,ever! No one has EVER come up with a piston like this one. It's gonna be bad ***** period. This is gonna be the piston by wich all others are judged. Just look at the spec's of it.

i might want this piston...but 1 thing is...what makes it better...and how long do 2 ring pistons last...cuz i heard its not very long...like 10 hours...can u copy and paste whats so special over to this forum please?

Originally posted by devil6
WRONG!!! http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=8390

John doesen't copy anybody,ever! No one has EVER come up with a piston like this one. It's gonna be bad ***** period. This is gonna be the piston by wich all others are judged. Just look at the spec's of it.

holy mofo!!! i jus read that...i want 1 :D how much are they and where can i get it...also do they offer sponsorship? i still want to know how long the rings last tho, and im guessing this piston will work on 93 pump, im guessing the engine will rev faster, and gain power all over everywhere, because of the piston weight and the higher comp of the piston

[TrX450rKiD]

12.25 can run pump ... what cam do you have?

Much lighter .. and you don't have to change rings much more often. More power everywhere, you can get it from McCracken Motorsports, Merrill-Stone Racing, or WPP over at .ORG. They will be available within the next month I believe ...

Originally posted by TrX450rKiD
12.25 can run pump ... what cam do you have?

Much lighter .. and you don't have to change rings much more often. More power everywhere, you can get it from McCracken Motorsports, Merrill-Stone Racing, or WPP over at .ORG. They will be available within the next month I believe ...


are they like limited quantities or somethin? and how much r they?

[rodenberg35]

I have a 12:1 je piston with about 10 hours on it that I will sell you for 100 bucks. it is in perfect shape I am only selling it becouse I am getting the 480 jug. let me know if you are interested

Originally posted by rodenberg35
I have a 12:1 je piston with about 10 hours on it that I will sell you for 100 bucks. it is in perfect shape I am only selling it becouse I am getting the 480 jug. let me know if you are interested

no thx

[cals400ex]

the price being tossed around was $225 or $250 i believe. which, if that is what it costs that is fine with me. i am getting one. :D i am not sure about the supply yet.

[trost66]

I have a 13-8-1 and it is a 2 ring and I have about 25 hr on it and no problems at all. If you just keep your oil change and clean air filter every ride it should last awhile

[TrX450rKiD]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
are they like limited quantities or somethin? and how much r they?
John is selling as many as you want ;)

If 1 million people want Hammerhedz .. there will be 1 million made :D

[chad502ex]

my question about these hammers is what happens when the shape of the compression dome has been affected by "decking", because of the unique shape of the hammer, does this make this piston impossible to use with a decked head? The reason why i ask this is that with conventional design off the shelf piston a decked head is not going to be difficult to adjust the squish where the unique shape of the hammer may be difficult to adjust the squish if the hammer fits the dome...

just curious what everyones thought on this is..

[TrX450rKiD]

John is on a 3-wk move right now .. so I would suggest just calling VCP and asking. The guys on the phone are VERY helpful.

Originally posted by TrX450rKiD
John is selling as many as you want ;)

If 1 million people want Hammerhedz .. there will be 1 million made :D

good cuz i dont want 1 right now, just down the road i do :macho

[TrX450rKiD]

Same here man. I am looking to get one next winter while my bike is apart for PC. I want to try to put it in myself .. with the help of the Service Manual.

[Bad Habit]

Decking the head to get a desired squish height from a "shelf" piston is not necessarily a straight forward procedure. Many problems can arise from doing this, piston-to-valve clearance and cam timing are just a couple. Frankly, I don't see the advantage of decking a head to obtain certain dimensions that can simply be built into the piston itself. It's kinda like cutting off the ends of your toes to get your shoes to fit, why don't you just buy the correct sized shoes?

These pistons are not vanilla shelf pistons, they are made with many specific design parameters to be highly efficient not simply higher compression. You're not going to need or want to deck the head with a HammerHed piston to try and gain some advantage. If you are decking the head due to it being out of square, buy a new head casting. No one thinks twice about spending $200 on a set of valve springs that have exceeded their service limit. A couple hundred dollars to replace a warped head casting is peanuts when you're assembling an engine with performance and reliability in mind.

[devil6]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
holy mofo!!! i jus read that...i want 1 :D how much are they and where can i get it...also do they offer sponsorship? i still want to know how long the rings last tho, and im guessing this piston will work on 93 pump, im guessing the engine will rev faster, and gain power all over everywhere, because of the piston weight and the higher comp of the piston

About time you researched before you assumed. I'm just wondering, do you realize who disigned this piston? The same guy you publicly argued with over at .org, the same guy who's pipe you have run into the ground a thousand times, the same guy you deemed a idiot and told the world his products were a waste. Now i would love to hear your reasons why his company should sponsor you when all you have done for them so far is to try to put them out of business? Maybe sparks can offer you a comparable piston to this for your sponsorship. Oh, wait, he can't, because john's piston is patented, lol.

:devil: :macho

[chad502ex]

a "patent" does not make the product the best. A patent just makes the product at the time innovative and unique. We'll see how the piston performs soon enough, but as of now, I'm on board to think it's gain will be slightly better than conventional. More than I can say about the pipe patent.

[TrX450rKiD]

Coming from the guy that has never RIDDEN a Pulse Charger equipped R. That's some good, hard info right there!

Originally posted by devil6
About time you researched before you assumed. I'm just wondering, do you realize who disigned this piston? The same guy you publicly argued with over at .org, the same guy who's pipe you have run into the ground a thousand times, the same guy you deemed a idiot and told the world his products were a waste. Now i would love to hear your reasons why his company should sponsor you when all you have done for them so far is to try to put them out of business? Maybe sparks can offer you a comparable piston to this for your sponsorship. Oh, wait, he can't, because john's piston is patented, lol.

:devil: :macho

well i still dont like his pipe very much, i mean ya if he offered me sponsorship on the piston then for sure id support his pipe, but as of right now, i still dont kno about it, and im willing to forgive and forget about the whol k&n issue if he is, that was a dumb battle, some people like k&n some people like uni, or foam, which 1 is better, they are both equal if you use them in the right way, but i doubt he would sponsor me anyway, but hey, might as well try lol :macho

but then again, if he did sponsor me, maybe he could give me a test unit of his pipe just to test and send back, may convince me to buy his and sell my sparks, but i dunno

[devil6]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
well i still dont like his pipe very much, i mean ya if he offered me sponsorship on the piston then for sure id support his pipe, but as of right now, i still dont kno about it, and im willing to forgive and forget about the whol k&n issue if he is, that was a dumb battle, some people like k&n some people like uni, or foam, which 1 is better, they are both equal if you use them in the right way, but i doubt he would sponsor me anyway, but hey, might as well try lol :macho

but then again, if he did sponsor me, maybe he could give me a test unit of his pipe just to test and send back, may convince me to buy his and sell my sparks, but i dunno Ya know, this was not the reply i was expecting. I would really like for you to try the pipe and see what you think for yourself, and to make sure it is set up properly, jetting and sutch. I can almost promise you that you would be verry surprised at the difference you would feel with a PC. As far as the piston, i think it will last for what you do if proper maintenance is kept up. It is showing decent gains alone, but with other mods, these small changes add up to quite a bit. I would definatly consider this piston in a race application, and with the lifespan of the valves, swapping a piston while the head is off shouldnt be that big of a deal.

Originally posted by devil6
Ya know, this was not the reply i was expecting. I would really like for you to try the pipe and see what you think for yourself, and to make sure it is set up properly, jetting and sutch. I can almost promise you that you would be verry surprised at the difference you would feel with a PC. As far as the piston, i think it will last for what you do if proper maintenance is kept up. It is showing decent gains alone, but with other mods, these small changes add up to quite a bit. I would definatly consider this piston in a race application, and with the lifespan of the valves, swapping a piston while the head is off shouldnt be that big of a deal.

id really like to try 1, just to try, and send back or whatever, ive never ran anything else but lrd sparks yoshi and hmf, and i liked the sparks the best so thats what i bought, being i got the big core it added even more power, but i would like to try the pc, the only thing i dont like about it, is how big the cannister is, its about the size of the stock 1, and i smashed that 1 on the axle jumping it and i wouldnt want to do that with a pipe that costs that much, but i would love to test it and c how it does in the woods

[TrX450rKiD]

It doesn't hit the tire or the caliper when compressed .. and I don't think it hits the axle when fully compressed either ...

[devil6]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
id really like to try 1, just to try, and send back or whatever, ive never ran anything else but lrd sparks yoshi and hmf, and i liked the sparks the best so thats what i bought, being i got the big core it added even more power, but i would like to try the pc, the only thing i dont like about it, is how big the cannister is, its about the size of the stock 1, and i smashed that 1 on the axle jumping it and i wouldnt want to do that with a pipe that costs that much, but i would love to test it and c how it does in the woods Do you race woods only? I'm tellin ya', if you tried one, i think you would be surprised. Think of having one pipe that would give you all the power of a low end pipe, more mid than you ever had, and more top end than a top end pipe. All in one. I rode my buddys bike last week at the dunes, hottcams stage 2 and a PC is all that is done to it. The powerband is seamless, pulls form bottom to top no dips or surprise hits anywhere, Completley rideable all the way through. This pipe will rip in the woods. I don't know what if any sound or spark restrictions you guys have, but this pipe will accomodate them all, and not loose hardley any hp doing it, It actually gains low and top in stealth mode. I'm not tellin you to buy one, just ride a pc equipped bike if you get the chance, and ask the guy how he likes it. I found with the smoother power you dont get tired as easy, it's easier to hang on to for longer, and you should get faster if your less fatigued. I don;t know what cam you have, but i think you would like this for cross country racing. VCP doesent have any more 450 pipes left to my knowledge. More will be on the way soon. Maybe someone will let you borrow one or ride there bike, but if you get the chance, just try it out for a ride. I'm curiouse what you will think about it after testing one.

Originally posted by devil6
Do you race woods only? I'm tellin ya', if you tried one, i think you would be surprised. Think of having one pipe that would give you all the power of a low end pipe, more mid than you ever had, and more top end than a top end pipe. All in one. I rode my buddys bike last week at the dunes, hottcams stage 2 and a PC is all that is done to it. The powerband is seamless, pulls form bottom to top no dips or surprise hits anywhere, Completley rideable all the way through. This pipe will rip in the woods. I don't know what if any sound or spark restrictions you guys have, but this pipe will accomodate them all, and not loose hardley any hp doing it, It actually gains low and top in stealth mode. I'm not tellin you to buy one, just ride a pc equipped bike if you get the chance, and ask the guy how he likes it. I found with the smoother power you dont get tired as easy, it's easier to hang on to for longer, and you should get faster if your less fatigued. I don;t know what cam you have, but i think you would like this for cross country racing. VCP doesent have any more 450 pipes left to my knowledge. More will be on the way soon. Maybe someone will let you borrow one or ride there bike, but if you get the chance, just try it out for a ride. I'm curiouse what you will think about it after testing one.

i dont need a spark arrestor or db limit, but next year when i go to the gncc i will need under 102db i believe it is

id like to test 1, but i dont wanna buy 1 when i have a perfectly fine and good sparks big core, i have an all stock engine right now, just pipe/filter then the normal stuff, hiper wheels, maxxis tires, etc etc, im thinking about going with either a 470 stroker and c if the hamerhedz piston will work with that or if i need a stroker piston (if there is a differance im not sure) and get a stage 2 hotcam or just go with a high comp piston and cam, then we do all my port work at my place

[devil6]

Originally posted by chad502ex
a "patent" does not make the product the best. A patent just makes the product at the time innovative and unique. We'll see how the piston performs soon enough, but as of now, I'm on board to think it's gain will be slightly better than conventional. More than I can say about the pipe patent. If you had read what i had said, you would have noticed where i say the piston cannot be copied, because of a patent. I in no way implied that the patent holds any magical powers making the product super special. And we all know chad, you hate, or dislike verry mutch the PC. Good for you.

Ps, how mutch HP does your rossier loose when in spark arrested silent mode? just wondering?

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by devil6
If you had read what i had said, you would have noticed where i say the piston cannot be copied, because of a patent. I in no way implied that the patent holds any magical powers making the product super special. And we all know chad, you hate, or dislike verry mutch the PC. Good for you.

Ps, how mutch HP does your rossier loose when in spark arrested silent mode? just wondering?

well shiznit! Maybe, i'll patent some second-rate toilet paper so everyone can buy at almost 50% more than the "best" and use it's magical scent to clean my arse. see any similarity between the pipe and the toilet paper? they both deal with crap.

i don't really care about being silent like some do. If I did, I would plug the end of the pipe with some big cone-like glob of metal and hope that it could change the exhaust sound similar to a gazoo!

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by chad502ex
well shiznit! Maybe, i'll patent some second-rate toilet paper so everyone can buy at almost 50% more than the "best" and use it's magical scent to clean my arse.

Well at least then you would be dealing with something you know a thing or two about. With as much talking out your arse as you do, you very well could be the leading authority on that subject.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Bad Habit
Well at least then you would be dealing with something you know a thing or two about. With as much talking out your arse as you do, you very well could be the leading authority on that subject.

oh yea your a gazoo believer too! that explains why your getting defensive about its performance

[Bad Habit]

Who's getting defensive? Not me, I'm as cool as the other side of the pillow. However, I guess my post was a little redundant though since I was just stating the obvious.

[BOONE450R]

http://img250.echo.cx/img250/2972/ninja59eh.gif

I still want my pie damn it!!

[Pappy]

i did not read this entire thread, i admit that. but where did the guy wanting info on a piston ask for pages of BS :confused:


thought so:o