need something big

[dragracer7]

Hi
Now that I have a full system pipe air filter and has been jetted I want somethig big, like a bore kit or stroker what does anybody recomend

thanks

[JH_Racing188]

sparks natinoal kit faster and more reliable that bore or stroke kit
51-54 hp

[brif]

Personally I wouldn't send CS a dime. His site hasn't been updated since sept. of 2004. His site states they prefer their aggressive cam for mx( a repackaged 02 crf cam that service honda sells for about $160)). With this cam I don't see any one making anywhere near that kind of power.
The stockbore 450r that won 4 stroke wars was at the 52-53hp range(really dialed in too) and he was running the johnson cam. Alot more cam. It would still be pretty tuff out of a stock bore with the sparks x4 which is a megacycle x2 with $50 added to the price for good measure.
I had the sparks agressive and now the johnson and they do not compare.
Now to answer your question, what is something big pricewise? If you don't turn your own wrenches, labor needs to be included.
I think a good upgrade for you would be either an hrc cam(with a higher compression piston) or a hot cams stage 2(if you keep the stock piston). I would only do a piston at the same time IF you're willing to run race gas. If so a stock bore 2 ringer from a site sponsor in the 13.5:1 comp range would be the way to go.
Rember with the big bore's, a bore and plate is also necessary. This runs about $200. As far as reliability, the only ones who seem to have had alot of probs are the really high compression 500's. My 12:1 500 is still running fine with no prblems for over a year now. A stroker will cost you mega-money(ask chad502ex).
If I did it over again I would go with a 480 in the 14:1 compression. Good luck, there is alot of choices out there.

[oldsandman]

If I were you I'd go for a cam, head port and high comp piston 13:1 on the std. bore. It will really make a differance and be your best bang for the $.
If you a dead set on more cc's I'd deffinatly look at the ESR 480 kit. You'll still have to get a cam and head work. But they do run.

[desratt]

nmotion's 520 kit with 13:1 and +2,+3 valves

http://www.nmotiontechnology.com

with a web cam mysto cam,valve springs and cam gear

http://www.webcamshafts.com

[370kingR]

I have a fully decked out 520. Im at the point where i pretty much cant bolt on another performance part. Lots of $$ and i cant reach the 60 horse platue (sp wrong probably) but this motor really pulls extremly hard and if BIG is what your after, this will work for you. Not only great HP numbers but serious torque numbers as well.

I have a second motor that im building that will up the stock stroke this time instead of all bore. Its always a good idea to keep a balance between bore and stoke as Chad502ex has done with his motor. He has a well balanced 530cc motor with less bore and extra stroke. I am at all bore (101mm) and stock stroke on my 520.

My reccomendation would be to just get the NMotion cylinder kit (1000.00), hrc cam (250.00 for the kit) and spring set (250.00 or so), full after market exhaust (400.00-600.00) (notice i will leave it at that), and if possible and afordable....+1 exhaust and +2 intake valves with a nice clean port job (600.00 or so). Expensive but cheaper than a whole kit from NMotion and all the power you need.

***Note i chose the hrc cam because of its ease in installing with no degreeing needed. It has all the potential of a nice broad usable power curve. It is not the limiting factor in making more power, trust me!

That will get things moving in the right direction. Again, i preferably would like to up the stroke but you then will reach a whole nother expense level. Also, not to mention you really need to know about engine mechanics to deal with the complications of having the stroker.

[Airik79mx]

Hey 370kingR, what do you do with all of that power? Drag?? Dunes?? If you drag what times and speeds are you turning with that thing? Also what fuel do you run with that motor?

[R3Concepts]

Theres absolutely nothing special about the ESR 480..We did a lot of research on this and its better to send the cylinder to Millenium to get stripped, bored and re-plated. The ESR is only 12.5:1, and we went with a 13.5:1 which runs a little better. Get a BIG cam, such as one of the megacycles, or the mysto, we went with the mysto. You will need springs, but thats not much..We went with a 13.5:1 480, WC mysto, CRF carb, CRF ignition, DASA springs, guides, porting, ESR airbox eliminator, and it runs bat outta hell..But our bike is a drag bike so its pretty light which makes a big difference.

[370kingR]

Originally posted by Airik79mx
Hey 370kingR, what do you do with all of that power? Drag?? Dunes?? If you drag what times and speeds are you turning with that thing? Also what fuel do you run with that motor?

I dune, i drag for fun, i ride basically sand trials. Nothing but friendly competition. This thing is realy fast in the sand. I bet it might actually be too much on hard pack. The sand soaks up all the power you can seem to make. I cant say enough about this motor. I put some good hard time on it too. Gave it a whoopin and it seems bullet proof. Time will tell...

[oldsandman]

Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
Theres absolutely nothing special about the ESR 480..We did a lot of research on this and its better to send the cylinder to Millenium to get stripped, bored and re-plated. The ESR is only 12.5:1, and we went with a 13.5:1 which runs a little better. Get a BIG cam, such as one of the megacycles, or the mysto, we went with the mysto. You will need springs, but thats not much..We went with a 13.5:1 480, WC mysto, CRF carb, CRF ignition, DASA springs, guides, porting, ESR airbox eliminator, and it runs bat outta hell..But our bike is a drag bike so its pretty light which makes a big difference.

I think you and I are going at it from different perspectives. I was thinking of a resonable amout of $. If you want to make bigger #'s by all means do what you say but it will cost more$. If you really want some power do what Chad did or his friend with the efi turbo kit.

[R3Concepts]

Its actually cheaper to send it off and get it done by Millenium and buy your own 13.5:1 JE, and gaskets, then it is to buy the one ESR has already done on the shelf.

[oldsandman]

Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
Its actually cheaper to send it off and get it done by Millenium and buy your own 13.5:1 JE, and gaskets, then it is to buy the one ESR has already done on the shelf.

or US Chrome or max power...I agree it's cheaper to do it yourself, been there done that...Have also done the high comp piston in the 480(14:1+). Wouldn't recommend it for everyone. That's why I said esr easy, resonable and pretty bulletproof for what you get.

[mikes450r]

i talked to esr and they were telling me that there kit use to be a 13:1 but they changed it to the 12'5 because it was faster for drag racing..

what do you guys think about doing a 480 kit with a 14:1 piston..How do you think it will be for drag racing..

mike

[roostin_dale]

dont even bother with sparks, they are a joke. If your wanting to send it off, send it to TC, give them your price range, and say "make it fast".....tom will take care of you...

[oldsandman]

Originally posted by mikes450r
i talked to esr and they were telling me that there kit use to be a 13:1 but they changed it to the 12'5 because it was faster for drag racing..

what do you guys think about doing a 480 kit with a 14:1 piston..How do you think it will be for drag racing..

mike

I was told that they went with the 12 for reliablity. The 13 or 14 will make more hp and torque than the 12. The jury is still out on how long a 14 will last. When I took my 13.5:1 apart it looked really good . Both barrel and piston showed no abnormal ware. The 14.5:1 is in now so well see.
I would go with the 480 set-up that R3 Concept...said. All in all it's pretty good if you want to spend the money.
If you really want somthing Call Pinit Motorsports.831-444-6309

[mikes450r]

Originally posted by oldsandman
I was told that they went with the 12 for reliablity. The 13 or 14 will make more hp and torque than the 12. The jury is still out on how long a 14 will last. When I took my 13.5:1 apart it looked really good . Both barrel and piston showed no abnormal ware. The 14.5:1 is in now so well see.
I would go with the 480 set-up that R3 Concept...said. All in all it's pretty good if you want to spend the money.
If you really want somthing Call Pinit Motorsports.831-444-6309

\ya i may give them a call..im starting to convert my quad over to drag racing..i want a 480 kit but im not sure which setup i want to go with..alot of people are telling me that the 12:5 will be faster than the 13's and 14's because those big pistons die on top..

[oldsandman]

It'll be worth the call to talk to them. Pinit has done some pretty interesting things with the 450.

[chad502ex]

what an outpour of information in this thread,... it's great!

370kingR is right- solid advice Gary! The NMotion kit is extremely reliable and extremely durable power for the money. The best part of this kit is that you get a new beafier jug with plenty of meat to keep temps down vs. boring out stock jug and recoat.

as for the cost of stroking the 450R, it depends if you are able to build it yourself and save labor cost. For me, i designed and built the 530, so i didn't have to pay labor but it still cost about $2800 for parts. yes mega bucks but all worth the money when you hop on for a ride of your life.

catch the fever- once you ride a stroker you'll never just bore.

[redrider9045]

If you need somethign big but dont want to bore it out check out baldwinmotorsports.com. They have a 14-1 high compression piston im pretty sure its 14-1 or like 14.8-1 but it was put on my friends 450r with a mx cam and Mark baldwin told them it will out run 530r and 520yfz with the 11-1 piston. And it does easly and cost much cheaper.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by redrider9045
If you need somethign big but dont want to bore it out check out baldwinmotorsports.com. They have a 14-1 high compression piston im pretty sure its 14-1 or like 14.8-1 but it was put on my friends 450r with a mx cam and Mark baldwin told them it will out run 530r and 520yfz with the 11-1 piston. And it does easly and cost much cheaper.

whatever.:rolleyes:


you just go ahead and believe that litt'l fella..

[redrider9045]

sooo you dont belive me? lol its true weve ran them try it and youll see. they pulled a yfz 520 and another yfz 520 easliy theres also a pipe and airfilter on the bike

[Airik79mx]

Originally posted by chad502ex
whatever.:rolleyes:


you just go ahead and believe that litt'l fella..

Mark Baldwin built my motor and I would love to see you try and pull away from me with your big bore motors:macho

[mikes450r]

here we go

no no no, my quad is faster than yours..ga ga ***en whoo...get real you will never have the fastest quad out there..especialy because yours is built by whoever..there will always be someone with more money and more motor..

[370kingR]

The thing that i am most proud of is the fact that i put my engine together and also tried different parts. Heck id run anyone with anything but with no expectations. At the end of our run if im ahead great, if not, time to go tweak something to gain the advantage back. I just love tuning a motor.

Id hope at the end we could drink a beer together no matter who won :)

[redrider9045]

thats right airmx79 mark baldwin builds awesome motors and i bet no bored out 450 will beat your motor my friends having his done by mark so cant wait to try it

[370kingR]

Originally posted by redrider9045
thats right airmx79 mark baldwin builds awesome motors and i bet no bored out 450 will beat your motor my friends having his done by mark so cant wait to try it

Oh yeah, i bet Mark Baldwin can turn a piece of dog sheeit into 18k gold too...lmao

[chad502ex]

LOL!!:p

[mikes450r]

well if i want to set by quad up with a 480 kit for drag racing what size piston should i go with..the esr 12:1, a 13:1, or a hammerhead 14:1..

or whos piston do you guys recommend for drag racing a 480..

thanks mike

[chad502ex]

mike- i have no idea who you are asking here. i guess everyone- so i'll input a bit.

the higher compression the better.

However, one concern that i have with the hammerhead piston is that it has tall squish deck pretty much molded to fit the 450r head dome, and if you have decked your head your screwed. its kinda like a puzzle with all the pieces matching perfectly until you change the shape of one piece the puzzle no longer fits. you can not go wrong with conventional design, but that piston is really nice for the stock setup (no head decking).

hope this helps.

[R3Concepts]

Mark is a nice guy but Im sorry, his motors probably wont outrun many bigbore bikes..A good rule of thumb to go by is if you cant build your own motor you shouldnt be riding..You learn so much more about a bike when you know the motor and what you can/cant do with it..Imagine how youd feel if the motor you built in your shop outran one of the nations top builders just becuase you took the time to figure out setups, and squeeze that extra little bit out. AS far as running a 480 strictly for drag racing, like our bike, I would run a 13.5:1 in it, the 14s will start to show wearing relatively quick. This "my buddy" stuff is funny though.

[mikes450r]

Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
Mark is a nice guy but Im sorry, his motors probably wont outrun many bigbore bikes..A good rule of thumb to go by is if you cant build your own motor you shouldnt be riding..You learn so much more about a bike when you know the motor and what you can/cant do with it..Imagine how youd feel if the motor you built in your shop outran one of the nations top builders just becuase you took the time to figure out setups, and squeeze that extra little bit out. AS far as running a 480 strictly for drag racing, like our bike, I would run a 13.5:1 in it, the 14s will start to show wearing relatively quick. This "my buddy" stuff is funny though.

"This one time at band camp my buddy had a "

naw just playing...so who should i get the 13 from..whos making a good piston for the 480 kit..

[370kingR]

Mike,
No one has a Hammerhead piston yet because they are not available until a few more weeks. Its going to be hard to draw a good comparison till some people get time on them.

No doubt go bigger on compression. 13 and up is where it seems to be at with these motors. Add a cam to fully exploit the power the added compresion will make. Together they will live in harmony.

[R3Concepts]

We've always run JE as hard as they will go with no problems thus far. If your gonna build a drag bike, big compression, big cam is the only way to go. That and shaving as much weight off the bike as you can.

[mikes450r]

Originally posted by 370kingR
Mike,
No one has a Hammerhead piston yet because they are not available until a few more weeks. Its going to be hard to draw a good comparison till some people get time on them.

No doubt go bigger on compression. 13 and up is where it seems to be at with these motors. Add a cam to fully exploit the power the added compresion will make. Together they will live in harmony.

ya i know the hammerheadz arent out yet..so if i go with a 13 should i just get a stock shelf piston from je..

also what do you guys think about ignitions..i have been trying to decide weather to go with the dynatek or the crf ignition..

I was wanted to keep my fan so if i did the crf i would have to get the stator rewound right..what do you guys think about going with the dynatek and add a flywheel like the crf..

mike

[Airik79mx]

Originally posted by R3Concepts426ex
Mark is a nice guy but Im sorry, his motors probably wont outrun many bigbore bikes...

I never said my Baldwin built stock bore would out run the big bore's I just said that the big bore's wouldn't pull away from me.
Either way it's all in fun...:rolleyes:

[ThumPIN_450R]

Originally posted by 370kingR
Oh yeah, i bet Mark Baldwin can turn a piece of dog sheeit into 18k gold too...lmao

I don't know dude I've heard rumors about that:D

[rebelrider450R]

SCOTT AT SS MOTORSPORTS BUILDS THE BEST 450 MOTORS THEY WILL SMOKE CURTIS'S MOTORS [205-438-1090] 2005 ALABAMA ARENACROSS CHAMPION

[TURBO-530R]

I'll put my money on chad's 530R set up..



Any takers $$$$$$$$$$$$$$:D :D :D