FCR41 Alky Burners....Please Step Up to the Plate

[Sandragggen]

I'm having a heck of a time trying to start the alky 465. I can pop clutch start the bike and it runs fine in the mid to top (no popping or sluggish throttle response), but will not idle. Even after the EX is warmed up it still will not start from the electric starter (brand new battery). Rarely I can get the EX to start from the starter by pumping the bejezzus out of the throttle and holding throttle wide open but only after 5+ seconds of pushing the starter button. With all the pumping going on I'm thinking that I'm lean on the bottom.

I bought the FTZ alky kit for the FCR41. With that being said I richened it up. I installed the largest pilot jet FTZ sent (.0046), 2 turns out on the Slow Speed Air Screw (under bell air filter side of carb), Air Screw 3 out, 113 Main Jet, Needle (OCFBK) 5th notch down from top, floats adjusted to 9 mm. My motor mods are 14:1 92mm Sparks piston, ported, 1mm larger intake and exhaust valves, 463/9i WebCam, hardened rockers, stock cdi box, K&N w/outerwear..lid off, Carrillo rod, DMC pipe.

I anyone using the FTZ alky kit and have you had similar problems as mentioned. I spoke with Sparks and they said if I couldn't get anything to work send carb to them with mods list and they would try to figure it out. I've been on the phone with FTZ and they say that they have never had any problems with the kit and what they sent should work. Does my sitituation sound like a lean condition? What are your alky FCR41 jetting specs? HELP!!!

man, now i might be able to beat u in a drag in a dead engine start

[Sandragggen]

There is no doubt that you would beat me....lol. This alky jetting is a pain. It runs fine on the mid to top but won't idle to save a soul.

[Sandragggen]

TRX465....Alky472.....Anyone?

[400exJOE]

I know nothing aboput alky, but if it wont start there are a couple of places to start. 1.) Do you have an aftermarket CDI box? This could be part of the problem. 2.) This is my best guess. Your pilot (low speed) jet is way to lean. If you can get it to start by pumping and adding more gas, then it seems like it is too lean to run on its own with the size of the pilot jet.Try upsizing 2 or 4 sizes.

[type3tom]

I also have the FZR 39mm alky carb and have not been able to get in dialed in.I can get to idle but the idle screw is cranked in all the way what it does is when you rev it up the idle drops down to about 2000rpm and stays there for awhile before it come down,I called FZR from the dunes(just got back today from sending a week down there) and they told me to go to a bigger pilot jet since the biggest they gave me was a 48 so I had the pilots drilled to a 50 and a 52 and neither made one bit of differance.After spending god knows how much time messing with it I got fed up and change it back to gas with the Edelbrock carb.I plan on calling FTZ again and getting some answers.

[FullBore52]

hey sandragggen, this is alky...changed names.

anyway, i told you all I knew about it in the chat and other various times. I also told the alky set up to go to **** for a while till i have the time and patience to screw with it. The one time it was right, it was AMAZING. All that money really paid off against those ported shees and a zilla with a pipe...I think if I got a pipe built for my bike that was really big compared to the rest (sparks x-6) I would be up around somewhere like 66-68 horse...good luck

[ChadEXer]

66-68 horses,,,the sound of that makes me wanna cream:D i cant wait to see what the 505 will push!

[Sandragggen]

After doing some electrical and compression test, I found that I have only 90 lbs. of compression and electrical system checked ok. Stock is somewhere around 130. With the 14:1 piston I should be higher than 130, maybe around 150-155. When I took off the crankcase vent tube I found major air blowing out of the vent hole and have a crankcase full of alky....I think I have a ring problem and/or maybe a hole in the piston. It's being torn down tonight to see whats going on.

Screamin.....some time has past. I didn't know if you had a chance to mess with the alky carb anymore since the last time we spoke. One thing is for sure, patience is needed when tuning for alky on the EX. I never had this much trouble tuning the Pol on alky.

man, get that ex goin, i wana see it in action from the side, not from behind, like i did the pol

[FullBore52]

Originally posted by ChadEXer
66-68 horses,,,the sound of that makes me wanna cream:D i cant wait to see what the 505 will push!

IT will probably be around the same, seeing as I think you said yours will be 12.5:1, mines right about 13.5:1, and yours will be race gas, not alky...right?

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by Screamin 'Shee


IT will probably be around the same, seeing as I think you said yours will be 12.5:1, mines right about 13.5:1, and yours will be race gas, not alky...right?
I dont know,,,alky definately hasnt been ruled out yet!!

Sounds like you guys need to work for the local bomb squad,,since you like to deal with ticking time bombs..:eek:

[knighttime]

They are pushing the limits of the 400ex engine. :eek:

They may have pushed too far. Time will tell i guess. :huh

but, they will be doin what they enjoy most when it explodes

[ChadEXer]

Originally posted by 440
but, they will be doin what they enjoy most when it explodes
yeap,,,passin everybody else:D

well, after thinkin, i also guess it wold be ur pilot jet too.

[deansfastway]

Sometimes with ALKY its real easy to wash down the rings . Sometimes with alky its better to start it on a little primer gas, also sometimes we like to run gasoline through it before we shut them down & put them away.Sometimes its good to run a little top lube Marvel Mystery oil OK in the fuel to lube the topend . ALKY likes to evaporate quickly and take away the oil film on the cyl walls , maybe thats what happened to yours (90psi) Maybe you could drip a little 10w40 down the plug hole and try your comp thest again. Maybe ,and Ive seen this before on bikes, If you convert the carb over and just put in larger pilot & main you might need to drill out the CHOKE fuel delivery circuit holes(probably already done ) Maybe you just have a washdown problem though. Please dont scrutinize me on any thing Ive posted here for it is only some suggestions of things Ive seen with Alcohol, and Im no expert. But Ive seen quite a few MicroSprint Motors and some small & big block modifiedsand QUAD/BIKES. GOOD LUCK FASTWAY MOTOSPORTS

[330EXman]

i dont know about you guys but when i work to start the mud skippers we have that run alky it is one **** of a time getting them started, from what i know alky never starts well at all. you do want to get it started with something liek vp12 race gas to get it going or something.

man you guys are lucky. you said that the crank was right full of alky, jessus you are lucky you didnt blow your selves to **** and back.

you NEED to be exstremly carful with this gas. alky can blow your hole quad apart with you on it.

if i was running alky i would tear down after every race and replace the rings or atleast check on them.

later guys and be careful

[Sandragggen]

I found the problem. The valves are hitting the piston. Luckily the piston is ok but needs to be fly cut to except the larger valves. The guy who built it did not clay it up to check clearances. He also only did a 2 face angle job on the valves. When he machined the cases to except the larger 465 sleeve, it looked like he used a hacksaw....very poor workmanship. All the parts I bought were in the motor to my surprise after seeing the type of work he does. For some ungod reason he milled the head and it looked like he used a belt sander to do it. All will have to be remachined and possibly have to buy a new head.

When I set the EX up for alky I put a tee in the fuel line after the petcock that will allow me to purge gas after I'm done with the days ride. I also run Klotz Uplon as a top lube in the alcohol. I am using the stock cdi box. I wish that I only had a jetting issue, but as you can see my problems are much more serious. When complete I will have more in it than if I would have sent it to Sparks or TC. This was a very expensive lesson. Thanks for all your input and I will keep you posted on results.

Jay

man, that sux, go back and hav a long, talk wit that boy

[Sandragggen]

440...I plan on doing just that after I get the thing back together. I may find other problems and will address all to Rick at once. The thing that pi$$es me off the most is that he had the head off a couple of weeks ago and he had to have seen the marks on the piston from the valves hitting and didn't do anything about it or even mention it. I got what I paid for.:mad:

yea, but itl all come todather in the end, i bet the hp increase is well worth the wait

[FullBore52]

If i had the head off of my bike and the valves had been hitting the piston i would rage...the guy would meet the piston...and not by choice

that sounds like vilence to me, screamin!

[deansfastway]

HEY MAN , Good luck with your motor , Maybe Instead of getting a new head you can have someone who knows what theyre doing fix it then get thicker head gaskets . If you call Cometic they will make them for you. They special make them for me sometimes. With the steel or stainless steel gaskets they have a spacer sandwiched in between the outer layers maybe you can double that up or maybe they can make you a spacer for the bottom of the cyl then use 2 base gaskets , they have made these for me in the past also,(for 2 strokes to change the port height). Youll also want to watch those head studs, make sure theyre in there deep enough and that the threads arent pulling out of the cyl. You can get longer style 10x1.25 helicoil thread inserts from MSC catalog (any good machine shop has one) . If your studs pull out you wont be having too much fun either, it seems that those studs can only come out once or twice before the threads get upset. GOOD LUCK FASTWAY MOTOSPORTS

[Sandragggen]

dean....I've got a machine shop that builds micro sprints checking everything out. They are doing a 3 angle valve job, milling the head to get it true, basically checking everything out that the so called builder did. The machine shop told me about the custom copper gaskets that you are talking about. Heavy duty head studs are installed but I will keep a eye on any leaks that may appear. The guy that messed up the 465 did a 440 kit for me last year and it ran like a raped ape, thats why I took it back to him. I guess the extra 465 machining or gouging was to much for him I guess. I could have done a better job than he did and I don't know anything about it, but I'm learning fast. One thing about all this is that I caught it before it did to much damage. Thanks for your insight on the issue.

Jay

[bama400ex]

off topic but can you run gas through an alky carb. i dont see why you couldnt. i know you cant run alky through a gas carb because it causes corrison. and if you can i suppose you have to change the jetting? and ive read that alky can contaminate the oil in your engine, but would it be that bad on a 4 stroke? how much $$ did the carb set you back? sorry for all the questions, thanks for your time.