front Wheel spacers why are they so bad??

[ranger400ex1994]

i know this subject has come up alot and yes i did do a search. I just want to know why they are so bad for your quad just on the front? I do some MX racing and the tracks i run do not have very big jumps. i was going to get a G force axle in the rear and maybe some wheel spacers up front. Arms are to rich for my blood right now.

[300ex73]

They cause excessive bumpsteer, they increase stress on front end components(ie- the balljoints and spindles) and could cause them to break by increasing the amount of leverage being placed on them. They also cause your shocks to bottom out easier because of the added leverage. I'd also have to say that they're fairly unsafe, because of the fact that they could be installed incorrectly and cause you to lose a wheel on the track.

[polaris bob]

Wheel spacers and MX jumps just don't mix. If you have to go wider and can;t do the a-arms right now, you would be better off trying to find a set of wider offset rims to run. They wont give as much width as a set of spacers, but at the same time they tend to stay together better than a set of spacers will on a jump.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by 300ex73
They also cause your shocks to bottom out easier because of the added leverage. that is incorrect...they do cause bumpsteer and can cause compenents to break easier. They do not make the shocks softer becuase both mounting points for the shocks stay the same, the fulcrum of the spindle and the a-arms stay the same.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
that is incorrect...they do cause bumpsteer and can cause compenents to break easier. They do not make the shocks softer becuase both mounting points for the shocks stay the same, the fulcrum of the spindle and the a-arms stay the same.

True but there is more leverage because the contact point of the tire is now farther out, thus making it like adding a set of a-arms with the same shocks, they WILL bottom easier

[Warnerade]

sorry to burst your bubble...but its a proven fact, they will not bottom easier.

[muff]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
True but there is more leverage because the contact point of the tire is now farther out, thus making it like adding a set of a-arms with the same shocks, they WILL bottom easier

like nacsracer said this is incorrect. while true if it was only a single a-arm design, with the double a-arms the force from the offset will always be at the spindle stud, and no where else.

heres a diagram i did a while ago...

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid81/pb994dc9e923d3f6eff238bf3c2aecdc2/faff5d39.jpg

[wilkin250r]

Wow, the misinformation is astounding.

First off, it is NOT bumpsteer. Bumpsteer has a very specific meanin that has NOTHING to do with the offset of your rims and wheels. Bumpsteer is when the shock compresses and the A-arms go through their travel, the difference in angles between the A-arms and your tie rods will actually cause your wheel to "steer".

I'm not exactly sure what to call the effect you guys are thinking about, some call it feedback. The forces acting on the wheel are fed back through the bars, and those forces are magnified with wheel spacers. Like I said, I'm not sure what to call it, but it is NOT bumpsteer.

Second, wheel spacers will NOT NOT NOT make your shock bottom out easier. Did you hear me? They will NOT make your shocks bottom out easier. In a dual-arm setup, the added leverage is canceled out by the top arm.

I have spent many years studying physics and mechanics, and I can go into great detail complete with equations, and bore you to death.

[Warnerade]

wilkin....you leave me speechless whenever you post anything that has to do with physics

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
wilkin....you leave me speechless whenever you post anything that has to do with physics

How did that leave you speechless at all? It wasn't very informative. I totally see what your saying now and I was wrong. I never really though of it like this, but that picture helps a lot. Wilkin go ahead and bore me with some numbers and equations if you would....its more interesting.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
How did that leave you speechless at all? It wasn't very informative. I totally see what your saying now and I was wrong. I never really though of it like this, but that picture helps a lot. Wilkin go ahead and bore me with some numbers and equations if you would....its more interesting. this post didnt exactly leave me speechless...but this guy is a math wiz...knows a lot.

[TBD]

Originally posted by 400exrider707
How did that leave you speechless at all? It wasn't very informative. I totally see what your saying now and I was wrong. I never really though of it like this, but that picture helps a lot. Wilkin go ahead and bore me with some numbers and equations if you would....its more interesting.

I don't understand why that would bore you. I guess your not interested in the correct info. Wilkins is one of a few people on here that appears to understand how suspension works.

Wilkins, I'm not sure how you would refer to the steering feedback either. Like you said it is NOT bumpsteer. I've tried to explain it also but most people just keep refering to it as bumpsteer.

[Warnerade]

i never knew that it wasnt called bumpsteer...but now that i do, i will still call it that, just becuase its simpler..and everyone will know what your talking about...without going through the hassle of explaining it.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by TBD
I don't understand why that would bore you. I guess your not interested in the correct info. Wilkins is one of a few people on here that appears to understand how suspension works.

Wilkins, I'm not sure how you would refer to the steering feedback either. Like you said it is NOT bumpsteer. I've tried to explain it also but most people just keep refering to it as bumpsteer.

There was nothing informational about it, I would like to see the mathematical side of it.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by NacsRacer027
i never knew that it wasnt called bumpsteer...but now that i do, i will still call it that, just becuase its simpler..and everyone will know what your talking about...without going through the hassle of explaining it.

Good idea. And even though I know your username is NacsRacer027, I'm going to call you SweetSuzyQ. It's easier, and everyone will know what I'm talking about.

:blah: :macho

[bwamos]

Here's a simple illustrative example.

Get a set of dumbells. Take the weights off of one end.

1) Hold it on the short end nearest the weight right up against the weight. (this simulates the forces at the spindle without a spacer) Take note of the Leverage. Bounce your hand up and down a little. Notice the extra stress.

2) Now. Hold it at the long end the farthest away from the weight, if you even can. (this simulates the forces at the spindle with a spacer) Take note of the Additional Leverage. Bounce your hand up and down a little. Notice the massive amount of stress. This is what happens to your lugs, spindles, and bearings when you use spacers on your atv.


I wouldn't reccomend them for even Sand Dunes, let alone MX. MX is just nuts. ;)


Bumpsteer is caused by the a-arms traveling up and down.
"Smacksteer" is caused by hitting a small tree aka Feedback.

Yea yea, not verry funny. But, easy to remember. ;)

[TBD]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Good idea. And even though I know your username is NacsRacer027, I'm going to call you SweetSuzyQ. It's easier, and everyone will know what I'm talking about.

:blah: :macho
Excellent way to put it.

[TBD]

Originally posted by bwamos
Here's a simple illustrative example.

Get a set of dumbells. Take the weights off of one end.

1) Hold it on the short end nearest the weight right up against the weight. (this simulates the forces at the spindle without a spacer) Take note of the Leverage. Bounce your hand up and down a little. Notice the extra stress.

2) Now. Hold it at the long end the farthest away from the weight, if you even can. (this simulates the forces at the spindle with a spacer) Take note of the Additional Leverage. Bounce your hand up and down a little. Notice the massive amount of stress. This is what happens to your lugs, spindles, and bearings when you use spacers on your atv.


I wouldn't reccomend them for even Sand Dunes, let alone MX. MX is just nuts. ;)


Bumpsteer is caused by the a-arms traveling up and down.
"Smacksteer" is caused by hitting a small tree aka Feedback.

Yea yea, not verry funny. But, easy to remember. ;)
The new word for steering feed back " Smacksteer ". They'll still call it bumpsteer.

[Warnerade]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Good idea. And even though I know your username is NacsRacer027, I'm going to call you SweetSuzyQ. It's easier, and everyone will know what I'm talking about.

:blah: :macho *******:o

[BlasterEaten250]

So do they bottom out easier or not?

[muff]

Originally posted by BlasterEaten250
So do they bottom out easier or not?

no, they don't change your leverage ratio...

[eganracing]

i ran spacers for years and didnt know all about this stuff. now i have extended a-arms and im wondering if i should replace my spindeles just to be safe. what do u guys think?

[muff]

Originally posted by eganracing
i ran spacers for years and didnt know all about this stuff. now i have extended a-arms and im wondering if i should replace my spindeles just to be safe. what do u guys think?


I wouldn't bother, they are quite expensive new, as bad as it sounds I would wait until you break one (if you ever do). I would only replace them if you know you ride real hard and have hit some big jumps with them.

I'm no suspension or steering expert, but what I ended up calling the condition is "Swing Steer"

I'm guessing that ideally for accurate steering, you'd like the centerline of the wheel as close to the axis of where the ball joints mount with the spindle. The axle the hub and wheel mounts to invariably pushes the tire out about 2" from the pivot axis, and adding spacers makes it about 2-4" wider still. What happens then is the tires are no longer pivoting on an axis, but swinging around in an arc, therefore the farther away from the pivot axis you go, the farther the tire has to travel in order to make the same change in the steering arc.

every one is saying their so bad but i have my spacers on the front of my 400ex theri crj 3 inch spacers (1.5 per side). well i had zero problums so far for like 3 years now and i been jumping 15 feat high and botom out alot and so far no trobble. all i noticed so far is that the front end wants to wander a little more but it isnt bad as people make it sound. it would make your shocks a little softer to but all u have to do is make your back shock softer and u wont bottom out as much. i like them but with them on u still have a better chanch of snapping something on front than not having them. i had them on the back end and my axel broke after casing a double 2 times in a row then it was still on it didnt snap but that weekend the axle then i went in my other field and hit a small jump reving high the front end went almost streaght up and i landed the back shock didnt even moove and i landed and saw my back tire roll in front of me. now i have a lsr racing axel with the spacers on back to so now im about 53 inches wide.