Free Sag on Elkas

[dirtriderex]

I have been riding my quad with my rebound and compression adjustable elkas in the front. It seems like when my quad sits on the floor it has a real lot of sag. All my travel is lost due to the excess sag. How do I adjust this?

[400exrider707]

Try tightening the preload up to raise the ride height. Also if it still sags a bit you might try upping the compression. I had the same problem with mine and just tightened up the preload on it and it made it much better.

[dirtriderex]

well I know you want the clearence to be 9.5 inches. I'm afraid to raise it too much.

[gojk]

The 9.5" is with you on it. You may already know this, but I thought I would throw it out there just in case.

[cdalejef]

9.5" is way to high! You want 8" from the bottom of the frame to the ground with the rider on the bike. Thats running 22" front tires and 20" rears.

[300ex73]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
9.5" is way to high! You want 8" from the bottom of the frame to the ground with the rider on the bike. Thats running 22" front tires and 20" rears.

And isn't the 8 inches with him on it, also the best height for XC or woods riding? I know that for MX, you want to run between 7 and 8 inches, right?

[cdalejef]

Yes, I had answered those questions in my post. The ride height difference between XC and MX is determened by what size tires you run.

[dirtriderex]

so then why is there so much sag? Am I going to have to lower my quad even more?

[cdalejef]

They are self sagging shocks, that is the way they are designed. This is the setup that all the top shock companies have gone too and what all of the pro racers are running. It makes for much better handling. You don't loose any travel at all, you gain travel over stock its just that part of that is in up travel.

[dirtriderex]

Ohhh, ok thanks for clearing that up for me, It's just that I was reading their manuel and it says you want 1 inch of free sag.

[cdalejef]

Free sag is the sag with the weight of the bike only. You will want to set your ride height with you on the bike. Here is a little artical on how you go about setting up your ride height: Setting ride height (http://www.********forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256)

[2000400EX]

Ok, so you say to set the ride with both measurements equal at the front and rear....in the Elka Owner's manual it states that some riders prefer the front to sit a little higher and they recommend no more than 1/2" higher. What advantage is there to having the front slightly higher than the rear? I misread that originally and I set mine up to have 1/4" more in the front because I thought it said to have more in the front.....should I lower the front back down?:confused:

[cdalejef]

The MX guys tend to like the rear to ride a little lower for more traction out of the corners as to where XC guys tend to like them more level.

[wilkin250r]

Jeff, would you recommend different ride heights (based on sag, NOT wheel size) for different types of racing?

Follow my logic, and see if it makes sense.

When racing MX, jumps typically have a fairly smooth, uniform face and lip, so you don't have much shock compression on the takeoff. Your major shock compressions occur at landing impact, after your wheels leave the ground and shock can extend fully. If your shocks have 8 inches of travel, with 2 inches of sag, they extend in the air to give you the full 8 inches to absorb the impact. Same with whoops, if your rebound is set correctly. Your shocks have time to extend.

In XC racing, or desert racing, you rarely have a smooth, uniform anything. The majority of your shock travel and shock compressions are going to come in the form of obstacles in your path. Very rarely are you going to leave the ground before you compress your shocks. As such, your shocks are not given the chance to extend in the air. If you have 8 inches of travel, with 2 inches of sag, without that time to extend, you only have 6 inches of travel to absorb that impact. Setting the sag to 1 inch would give you more "useable" shock travel.

Am I way off base?

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
They are self sagging shocks, that is the way they are designed. This is the setup that all the top shock companies have gone too and what all of the pro racers are running. It makes for much better handling. You don't loose any travel at all, you gain travel over stock its just that part of that is in up travel.

This is all very interesting as I am going through the same setup steps. Jeff what exactly do you mean by "up travel"? Thanks

[cdalejef]

Are you talking about free sag or ride sag?

[wilkin250r]

Ride sag. I don't see any point in adjusting the free sag. It's like adjusting the idle horsepower of your car, what's the point? It becomes absolutely pointless when actually driving.

[cdalejef]

Your theory makes since on paper but out in the field it just isn't enough to work properly. Its very tough to explain but the 8" from the frame to the ground is what works perfectly for XC. This is why you don't see the pro's quads all jacked up in the air, it just doesn't work as well.

[wilkin250r]

I don't have any experience with XC racing, so I don't really know. I know that a lot of desert racers used to run HUGE ride heights, but they could probably get away with it because there isn't a lot of tight turns involved in desert racing where a low center of gravity is needed for stability. The primary goal was shock travel, to get the most possible, and low center of gravity was a distant secondary concern.

Of course, this was before ZPS was mainstream. I'm not sure how ZPS has changed desert racing suspension, but I would imagine it's much the same. Maximum usable wheel travel is most likely still the primary goal. The tight terrain and turns of XC racing require a delicate balance balance between wheel travel and low center of gravity for stability.

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I don't have any experience with XC racing, so I don't really know. I know that a lot of desert racers used to run HUGE ride heights, but they could probably get away with it because there isn't a lot of tight turns involved in desert racing where a low center of gravity is needed for stability. The primary goal was shock travel, to get the most possible, and low center of gravity was a distant secondary concern.

Of course, this was before ZPS was mainstream. I'm not sure how ZPS has changed desert racing suspension, but I would imagine it's much the same. Maximum usable wheel travel is most likely still the primary goal. The tight terrain and turns of XC racing require a delicate balance balance between wheel travel and low center of gravity for stability. Exactly! On our desert quad we decided not to go the SSD route because of the high speeds and big rocks that we encounter. Cornering isn't as big of a concearn like it is for MX and XC.