Swapping shocks..?

[ohski]

I've heard that 400EX shocks can be used on a Z400... True or false..? If true are we talking both front and rear..?

Thanks, Wade

[44oEX]

well the front fit for sure, don't know about the back. But there is no point in swapping, there pretty much the same shocks.

[ohski]

Not when the Honda has a blown motor and new Elkas it isn't.

Wade

[bradley300]

i think the bottom mount on the rear shocks is different.

[cdalejef]

I think I'm gonna cry! :(

[ohski]

Sorry about making you cry Jeff... I tried to search for this but ended up reading too many off topic posts.

This isn't something that I want to try and make work if they are not in fact the same.

Thanks, Wade

[cdalejef]

Ok, the answer to your question is false.
I think alot of people confuse "will the shock fit on the quad" and "will the shocks work on the quad".
Just because something bolts on does not mean it will work correctly. For instance, I can make a set of front Banshee shocks fit on a 400ex but will the work......hell no!!!

[44oEX]

ok Jeff I don't want to sound mean or anything but you bash everything that people want to do.

the shock thing is bad, flipping rims, 300/400ex a-arms.......

OK look, I know the swapping a-arms and flipping rims might not be the best thing to do BUT unlike you not everybody has a shop and a bunch of money to just give away to buy new a-arms and hypers with the perfect offset for the "perfect handling"

some people don't have all your money and maybe all they can efford is to get 400ex a-arms or flip there rims. it is NOT the perfect set up I agree BUT even if the a-arms are not perfect for handling they are still alot wider then stock, I have seen a couple 300 with 400 arms and they work really good, maybe not up to your perfect standards but I mean no one cares. it's still alot safer to have it wider the to be stock and tippy. the flipped rims might have a little bump steer but it's a free way to make your ride wider, and free wider with bump steer is still alot better for most people then to have to pay 200-300$ on a-arms to make it wider and have perfect geometry. I have seen some flipped rims and they didn't complain. maybe you are just to perfect for the cheap upgrades!!! As for this guys question the shocks will work, but again it won't be perfect. I am guessing the 400ex elka's will be alot better the the Z's stock shocks, even if it's not PERFECT like your quad.


oh and I hope I didn't make you cry
sorry about the long post and messing up your tread I just had to vent a little.

[jacobw]

Jeff is a professional its not in his best interest to tell someone they can put something on a quad that is really not meant to fit the quad. If everything was universal I am sure the companies would not waste time making different shocks and arms for the different quad models. Why recommend putting arms or flipping wheels when it could potentially hurt you. Spend a few hundred dollars here or spend a couple grand in the ER when something gives way. The choice seems simple to me by the right stuff to fit your quad and you will have a safer machine. Why chance injuring yourself over a few hundred bucks. Just my .02 cents

[cdalejef]

LMAO....you think I have money? Why do you think I had to quit racing this year?
I tell people these things for their safety not to sell parts. I have said many times that they are better off leaving their quad stock thank to risk it by swapping parts that are not designed for their perticular quad. How does this cost them money???
There are a number of people that have tried these swaps and went back to stock and personaly told me that they wish that they would have taken my advise before hand.
I'd be willing to bet that you go up to any seasoned racer and ask them if they would rather race a quad stock or race one that has been jerry rigged with parts from another quad or has flipped front wheels and I guarntee you that they will tell you that they will take the stock quad!

I volunteered to come to this website and help to educate people on proper ATV setup and riding. I would think that if the owners of this site didn't agree with my advice, they would have asked me to stop giving it out a long time ago. Instead they gave me the "ATV Specialists" title.

Oh by the way....my race quads use stock arms and stock offset wheels.

Now the next time you go mouthing off or bashing someone you should get your facts straight first!

[jacobw]

talk about funny stuff here! people come on asking for advice then bash you when you lead them in the right direction giving them sound advice. Cant win for losing.

[TBD]

440EX,
Jeff gave you the correct answer. If you don't wnat to except it that's fine. But why bash a guy that is just telling you the truth. I would of told you the same thing he did. As far as the flipping rims gives you more bumpsteer. I've said it before and I'll say it again, bumpsteer is not the feedback you feel in the steering when you hit a obstacle.

[Rico]

Hey my 69 volkswagon beetle has a trailer hitch on it. Since it does and my neighbors 8 ton trailer will attach to it, I'm going to load it up with 6 quads and pull them to the track with...:huh

Think its' Ok to do this???

I mean it fits so it must work right?????

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by Rico
Hey my 69 volkswagon beetle has a trailer hitch on it. Since it does and my neighbors 8 ton trailer will attach to it, I'm going to load it up with 6 quads and pull them to the track with...:huh

Think its' Ok to do this???

I mean it fits so it must work right?????

Yeah that will work fine. Please take some pics:D

[44oEX]

ok fine you win, I give up. I am just tring to help people to do mods to there quads for cheap. not to mess with there safety.

I have seen first hand all these setup, no one was complaining and they where very happy with the way it worked and they where safe.

sorry if i offended anyone that was not my point

[mntly_imptnt]

maybe the answer should contain more info and less sarcasism. everyone has thier own opinion. and by the way lots of people have been switching parts on atv's for years including professionals.

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by mntly_imptnt
maybe the answer should contain more info and less sarcasism. everyone has thier own opinion. and by the way lots of people have been switching parts on atv's for years including professionals. I didn't see any sarcasism in my answer. I do get a little annoyed by answering the same questions several hundered times.

[Rico]

Originally posted by mntly_imptnt
maybe the answer should contain more info and less sarcasism. everyone has thier own opinion. and by the way lots of people have been switching parts on atv's for years including professionals.

Yeah by putting complete Honda Rear ends on Yamaha's which is a lot different than putting the wrong shocks on quads.

You have to remember not all shocks have the proper stroke to go with the a-arms that were designed to go with them.

Throw the wrong pair of shocks on a quad, go hit a big jump, bottom out the shocks bust the a-arms or ball joints and your face open and then be sure to come back out there and thank the dumazz that said it's ok to run blaster shocks on a V-force, etc, etc, etc.

Some people are trying to save money but aren't realizing the possible injury or DEATH that could occur because you wanna save some $$$$$

Remember Stupid Hurts....:blah:

The point we're getting to is for those that don't know any better, doing these shock conversions is not a good idea, cheap or not. I'd hate to see a kid read these threads, think it's OK to do then go out and kill themself because some jackleg on the internet said it's OK to do.

[Woodsrider]

Originally posted by Rico
Remember Stupid Hurts....:blah:

LOL yah but it's funny as chit if your watchin with beer in hand!:devil:

[Johnny_G]

Stop trying to rig things up fellas......It is unsafe, and it just doesn't work out in the end.

Easy for me to say, since I have 3 full race bikes, and an unlimited amount of parts right??????????? WRONG.....when I was a young beginer I used to have all the same financial woes that you guys do. I left my bike stock, until I could afford the proper mods, and then went on my way.

What alot of people don't realize is that in many cases STOCK IS REALLY REALLY GOOD. Just because something is aftermarket does not make it better than stock......there is alot of junk aftermarket stuff produced out there.

[<DRS>GPF]

hmm... this'll be a longer post, sorry..

Jeff, to ease your suffering... you should type your reply onto a word document then just cut and paste 2 times daily.
that seems to be the frequency of the "can I use these shocks?" question.
Perhaps even go all out and create a nice sticky you could link to when you see the question.. ;)

but... (this isnt directed toward you Jeff or anyone in particular and i do not intend to step on toes..)

being somewhat impovershed, I understand perfectly why someone would be willing to try it.. (front shocks that is, ive not had any issue with the stock rear shock..)

on mine, if I didnt put up the $$ for what I have, i would be using a set of KFX400 take-offs or more likely a set of 450 take-offs..

not to argue this "geometry" comment thats often used in these answers..
but i took a long and slow look and the differences between the angle of mounting (distance from top mount to bottom mount, side to side and front to back), the length of travel (each uncompressed and compressed) without a set of calipers to get exact, I dont see why its any worse than what the 400EX or the z400 came with..

the way I see it, the mfr's dropped the ball, be it on purpose or not.. those shocks pretty much stink compared to the other "stock" take-off alternatives readily available..

im not scientist (never claimed to be) but where could the geometric altercation that many are so concerned about be an issue..
im not seeing the dangerous angle that seems to have many scared..
what id like to see, is a CAD drawing that superimposes the frames/a-arm assemblies concerned in all these posts..
that would truly be more useful information that mine or anybody elses theories.
they are so close in all aspects that i dont believe the straight answer is NO.. thats just the safe answer for an unknown.. (i use it on my kids all the time..)

this isnt to say that one cant appreciate the advancements of any aftermarket shock over stock, but when the $$$ arent there, something is often better than nothing..

surely there are many who are using these "take-offs" already.. perhaps they are scared of being chastised for doing so but theyve no reason to be embarrassed about it.
bottom line for me: if I were out-o-cash and i needed better front shocks, id do it in a heartbeat, theyre absolutely a better mousetrap..

BTW the above comments do not address the issues with using 400 parts on a 300 or flipping some rims around.. that i definitly understand..

[mountaineer]

Hey Jeff
Keep up with the good and proper advise. We appreciate your professional opinion. I wish more pros would come on this site and give advise. Thanks again.

[44oEX]

Originally posted by <DRS>GPF

surely there are many who are using these "take-offs" already.. perhaps they are scared of being chastised for doing so but theyve no reason to be embarrassed about it.
bottom line for me: if I were out-o-cash and i needed better front shocks, id do it in a heartbeat, theyre absolutely a better mousetrap..


thanks

[ohski]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Ok, the answer to your question is false.
I think alot of people confuse "will the shock fit on the quad" and "will the shocks work on the quad".
Just because something bolts on does not mean it will work correctly. For instance, I can make a set of front Banshee shocks fit on a 400ex but will the work......hell no!!!

Thank you Jeff... That was the answer I was looking for. I didn't think it sounded right but I wanted to check.

Wade

[gump]

who is this jeff guy ?? and johnny_g, never heard of them... :confused:
just kidding, i know these guys personally, i might be slow but my quad is setup right due to the stuff i've learned from jeff and the other guys that know their chit on here, and it didn't cost me a dime, but i have bought out of apperication... :D
jeff i just bought a 450r with stock shocks but alot of other goodies, any tips of setting up the stockers until i get em redone ??? 180lbs with gear on.. i've only gotten to ride it once at lorettes..

[ohski]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
I didn't see any sarcasism in my answer. I do get a little annoyed by answering the same questions several hundered times.

Like I said before I searched because I figured it had been discussed but every post I read had a bunch of off topic junk in it (just like what this one turned into) and I couldn’t find the answer I was looking for. Thus, I posted my question…

Jeff’s reply is honest and was exactly what I was looking for. I found it odd that Honda and Suzuki (Kawi and AC included) would all be using the same shock but I had heard it from more than one person that owns one of these quads so I figured it would be better to ask than to try and end up trying to ride a bucking bronco. The Z bucks enough in stock form.

I am in no way a person who would rig something just to ride. That is why I still don’t have a new motor for the Honda, when it happens it will be done right. So far I haven’t had the time (see location) to pull it and take it to a reputable shop to have rebuilt. I’m hoping this fall when I get back home this will happen but I know there will be more down time with all the other things I have to get done so the stock Z400 will be my primary ride until then.

Why people bring their issues into other peoples posts is beyond me. If you want to jerry rig some 400 arms on a 300 do it and stay out of my posts..!

Maybe one of the mods can clean up all the off topic junk out of this thread so if this question comes up again this tread can be used for an answer.

Thanks again Jeff, Wade

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by gump
who is this jeff guy ?? and johnny_g, never heard of them... :confused:
just kidding, i know these guys personally, i might be slow but my quad is setup right due to the stuff i've learned from jeff and the other guys that know their chit on here, and it didn't cost me a dime, but i have bought out of apperication... :D
jeff i just bought a 450r with stock shocks but alot of other goodies, any tips of setting up the stockers until i get em redone ??? 180lbs with gear on.. i've only gotten to ride it once at lorettes.. Hey Gump, I just went through this same thing setting up our 450R that we used at the Parker 250. The best way that I could get the stockers to work was on the front, back the preload rings all the way up to the top of the shock body, turn the compression adjuster to full soft and rebound adjuster to 7 click from full hard.
On the rear, set the sag at about 8.5" from the frame to the ground with you sitting on the bike, turn the compression near the half way point and slow the rebound all the way.
This was the best that I could get the stockers to work without spending any money on them.

[bradley300]

Originally posted by Rico
it's ok to run blaster shocks on a V-force, etc, etc, etc.



so does that mean i can run v-force shocks on my blaster?

[Rico]

Originally posted by bradley300
so does that mean i can run v-force shocks on my blaster?

Yes you can bradley, also I here that with a hammer and some filing down of the header pipe you can put a dual exahust off of a v-force on a blaster. 6 HP gain when you do this..:eek2: It'll fit so it must work.

[EvilJester400EX]

Originally posted by Rico
Yes you can bradley, also I here that with a hammer and some filing down of the header pipe you can put a dual exahust off of a v-force on a blaster. 6 HP gain when you do this..:eek2: It'll fit so it must work.

Rico, you have lost your mind. That's what the pink muffler bearings and red powerbands are for on the Blaster!!! :cool:

[44oEX]

hey Jeff I have a little question for you. You said that you quit racing this year, well in you sig is says ATK factory racer, if you have a factory ride and quit well then you are not the one people should lisen to cause you are not to bright, if you do still race and have a factory ride well congrats, you must be a good rider and probably deserve it. But then you lied to me when you said you didn't race, so witch one is it. and you said you run stock a-arms and stoc ofset wheel, Hell I would to if I got paid to do it. you have a quad that is race ready out of the showroom, you don't need all the aftermarket goddie, you have them already.

Now I am not saing you are dumb ( unless you quit a factory ride ) you know your stuff, probably alot more stuff then me. But I just don't like you making me look like a fool when you bash all my idea thats it.

And for the swapping parts thing well I know it's not the right way to do thing. I agrre 100%, my quad is all aftermarket and I have a good setup with all the right parts for the right quad. BUT I just read DW and there is a article on the project blaster and they said they put fox shock from a RAPTOR, and it DID work great. Now I know you guys don't like DW and you will just say they a dumb, well I still like there mag so wtv. If they can do it and it work I can't see why we can't do the same.

If someone want to try to put EX shocks on a Z I say go for it. they are pretty close and it won't brake anything. If they work like crap I am sure the guy will be smart enough to remove them and put the right ones back on. the only thing that might make the shocks not work properly would be the valving and it should be pretty dam close.

[cdalejef]

Not that its any of your business but yes, I quit racing GNCC's this year and ATK still backs me with whatever decision I make. I am not paid by ATK, I only receive parts support not cash. I haven't lied to you at all, go check the GNCC results and see if you can find my name! Also ATK does not pay me to ride their quad stock, I can change whatever I wish but I have no reason to change arms as stock works very well. The a-arms I run are the same ones that come on the base model ATK not the LT that comes on the MX model.
I have not made you look dumb, you have made yourself look dumb by telling people that putting wrong parts on their quad is a good idea.
What kind of suspension training have you had to be able to tell people that it is safe to swap these parts out?

[TBD]

Well said Jeff.

[MXRACER86]

I feel your pain jeff. It is a never ending battle with some people.
Sometimes it makes me wonder how these people get these ideas.

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Not that its any of your business but yes, I quit racing GNCC's this year and ATK still backs me with whatever decision I make. I am not paid by ATK, I only receive parts support not cash. I haven't lied to you at all, go check the GNCC results and see if you can find my name! Also ATK does not pay me to ride their quad stock, I can change whatever I wish but I have no reason to change arms as stock works very well. The a-arms I run are the same ones that come on the base model ATK not the LT that comes on the MX model.
I have not made you look dumb, you have made yourself look dumb by telling people that putting wrong parts on their quad is a good idea.
What kind of suspension training have you had to be able to tell people that it is safe to swap these parts out? I think the fact that these people will go on here and argue with a pro and call them liars is appauling. You take time out of your day to help people with there problems and then they ***** when the truth isnt what they wanted to hear. Your nice and try to help people and then they pull **** like that. Thanks for sticking it out and still helping people with ther problems that arent *******s. And your right, you life and racing is noones buisness but your own:D

sorry about all the *'s but i was pretty upset at the way some people act:(

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by 44oEX



BUT I just read DW and there is a article on the project blaster and they said they put fox shock from a RAPTOR, and it DID work great.


They were FOX float shox, they are quite different from the regular breed. You can adjust the air pressure inside which would be equal to changing spring rates on a normal shock, except you do it with a hand pump. Comparing apples to oranges here.

Exactly

[44oEX]

I don't have any suspension training. All the things I say are safe. alot of people on here have done the EX/Z swap with no problem. the shock are pretty much the same lengh and are off two quad that are very close to being the same.

Now I am not complaining i just want to know something. If the 2 shocks are the same size and the geometry is almost the same, and the weight it the same, what problems would there be to put someones life in danger? The way I see it the only thing that could make them run not perfect would be the valving? right or wrong?
thanks


Originally posted by aLLoY MX 428
I think the fact that these people will go on here and argue with a pro and call them liars is appauling. You take time out of your day to help people with there problems and then they ***** when the truth isnt what they wanted to hear. Your nice and try to help people and then they pull **** like that. Thanks for sticking it out and still helping people with ther problems that arent *******s. And your right, you life and racing is noones buisness but your own:D

Now I do like his advise, I used it myself. And I am still learning alot of stuff. I didn't say he was a liar for bad advice. I just said that for the racing thing witch he cleared up.

Jeff I still think you give out good advice and you are very good at helping people with there setup problems, witch is really great.


Originally posted by 400exrider707
They were FOX float shox, they are quite different from the regular breed. You can adjust the air pressure inside which would be equal to changing spring rates on a normal shock, except you do it with a hand pump. Comparing apples to oranges here.

I am truly sorry I didn't know.

sorry 440 i didnt mean to flame

[ohski]

Wow, three freaking pages... This is really pathetic. It’s also why I hate coming here and asking anything. Nobody can keep a post on topic...

:-(

[44oEX]

Originally posted by aLLoY MX 428
sorry 440 i didnt mean to flame

no problem man I guess I asked for it.:(


Originally posted by ohski
Wow, three freaking pages... This is really pathetic. It’s also why I hate coming here and asking anything. Nobody can keep a post on topic...

:-(

and you can still ask stuff, I won't argue in all your posts.:devil:

and the anwser to your question acording to a smart man is NO you can't :D

there this thread is done

[bradley300]

Originally posted by EvilJester400EX
Rico, you have lost your mind. That's what the pink muffler bearings and red powerbands are for on the Blaster!!! :cool:

red powerbands?! i have blue ones now, where do you get the red ones, do you have to get them off a banshee? to they bolt right up, or do you have to modify them?

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by bradley300
red powerbands?! i have blue ones now, where do you get the red ones, do you have to get them off a banshee? to they bolt right up, or do you have to modify them?

No they only come in a package deal with the new and improved supercharged muffler bearings. While your at it might as well replace your kanooter valve.

[prepracing]

do you know if that package includes reed valves for a 4-stroke !