Best aftermarket 450R pipe

[450RGNCC]

What do you think that the best pipe is for the 450R? I am looking for a low-mid headpipe/ silencer combo that will give me more torque and also some extra horsepower. What is everybody's opinion?

[Punk'd]

Sparks
Hmf
Yosh

[shamisc]

Dr.D :D

[TRXDresh]

SPARKS was the weakest pipe in the dyno shootout. Go with a Rossier, HMF, or Pulse charger.

[JH_Racing188]

I got great horsepower gains with the SPARKS awesome low end..... but rossier is the best all around pipe.......:devil:

[kwatts400]

Dr. D with hrc kit is a pretty good combo.

[MR.BIG]

I have a chm exhaust very good power without a lot of noise!98db

[kbass24emtp]

I would say HMF. I have it with the HRC and it feels like a rocket. I does not have a lot of low end but once its on the cam. Watch out!!!!!!

your wrong about the pipe shootout

best 3 pipes are Rossier, Sparks, HMF any of those 3 will do you well, if you get sparks, make sure to get the big core, it is way better :macho

[Matt400ex_17]

Im Pretty happy with my LRD havent seen the pipe shootout but i went from stock to hrc to lrd and its like going from 300ex - 400ex - 450r. Loud though .

[Punk'd]

Originally posted by TRXDresh
SPARKS was the weakest pipe in the dyno shootout. Go with a Rossier, HMF, or Pulse charger.

Sparks is not weak.

Thought id clear that up:macho

[Doak450r]

theres better pipes than sparks and not as effin loud it gets so annoying after a while thats why im selling mine.

[devil6]

Does this best pipe need a spark arrestor or have to meet any sound regs?

[mike nash]

Just installed Yosh TRC sa carbon fiber slip on ,not too loud sweet bottom end looks great. I don't race so there may be a better pipe for you,Good Luck.

[450RGNCC]

It is not too important for me to have a spark arrestor and for the noise level I want to be legal if I go to a GNCC, so I believe that I need to be under 102dB; is that right?

[Ridin' Jesse]

i hate all these people bashing sparks! JUST BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE IT DOESNT MEAN IT SUCKS. IT DOESNT SUCK..i love my sparks pipe i love how it sounds pretty loud too which is good to me..it puts out awesome lowend....oh and for that pipe shootout btw a whole 1 hp isnt gonna make that much of a differance! some of the diffreances were like .1 HP....READ CLOSER

[450RGNCC]

Where did you guys see this 450R pipe shootout?

[Ridin' Jesse]

http://www.wppracing.com/links.htm

there you go.

[450RGNCC]

Thanks. Does anyone know or has anyone heard anything about the HMF Balance series with the "torque range modifier"?

[Ridin' Jesse]

My friend has the slipon and he says he likes it alot..dont really know to much though..go to HMF's stie n ask about it in their forums or email them and they will tell you more about it

[kfx008]

i love my sparky pipe with the hrc kit OMG LOL:devil: :devil: :eek2:

[Quadkid4105]

i got a full white brothers carbon pro exhaust and it runs sweet!!

[Ridin' Jesse]

Originally posted by Quadkid4105
i got a full white brothers carbon pro exhaust and it runs sweet!!

yeah if heard some good stuff about this one.

[garett]

I love my full trs yoshi tri oval , its sweet , i love the sound and the pipe looks nice also

chad502ex also did a pipe shootout, the sparks pipe took 2nd place, beat all 14 pipes execpt the rossier, and that was the non big core

[mikes450r]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
chad502ex also did a pipe shootout, the sparks pipe took 2nd place, beat all 14 pipes execpt the rossier, and that was the non big core

when was this...and weres the info on that...i didnt know about chad doing one..

Originally posted by mikes450r
when was this...and weres the info on that...i didnt know about chad doing one..

he did it about a month ago, it was up on exriders, im suprised you didnt see it, he had about 15-20 pipes in it, it was great info, he tested them on a completly stock bike, a hrc bike, and his R that is highly decked out

the pc was a good pipe just because it was one of the only pipes to make decent power with 96db, hardly any other pipes had such a low db, the best pipes were Rossier, Sparks, HMF quiet core, HMF standard core
im guessing the quiet core beat the normal hmf due to back pressure

[lukester720]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
chad502ex also did a pipe shootout, the sparks pipe took 2nd place, beat all 14 pipes execpt the rossier, and that was the non big core

Chad did NOT do the pipe shootout! How many times do I have to explain this to you? Chad has a 530cc 450r, Just because a pipe works well for him doesn't mean it is the best for something else because of the motor differences.

When tested on Brians quad (Brian is the one who got the test together) The Sparks was in last place. Brians quad has a high compression piston and hrc cam it is not stock.

[Got nads?]

I went from the Yoshi to the Rossier, and on the motocross track I noticed a huge inrease in the midrange and throughout the rest of the powerband. The only thing ididn't like about the rossier is that I blew out the spark arrestor on the first ride! Other that it is far better exhaust then the yoshi, this is however just my opinion.:D

Originally posted by lukester720
Chad did NOT do the pipe shootout! How many times do I have to explain this to you? Chad has a 530cc 450r, Just because a pipe works well for him doesn't mean it is the best for something else because of the motor differences.

When tested on Brians quad (Brian is the one who got the test together) The Sparks was in last place. Brians quad has a high compression piston and hrc cam it is not stock.

yes he did, maybe your looking at the wrong shootout, and yes chad has a 520 or 530 or whatever, and your right its differences or whatever, but he also tested it on the stocker bike, and it definantly wasnt last, on the stock bike it was like 8th or so i believe, but then again, sparks pipe isnt built for a stock bike, its built to have race performance for a modded bike, thats y it smokes everything else on the modded bike

[mikes450r]

man are you kidding me..you really crack me up..

Originally posted by mikes450r
man are you kidding me..you really crack me up..

pls go do your research before you post :macho

[brif]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
pls go do your research before you post :macho

You're not getting it are you. The pipe shootout was done by brian of wpp racing. Chad and others from this site were there. If don't believe anyone just pm chad and he'll tell ya.

[lukester720]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
pls go do your research before you post :macho

You should take you own advise, maybe Chad will come on and set you straight. I sent a little money to Brian to help cover the costs of the test and I also sent him the Rossier pipe that was used in the test. The test was at Harlens property and Chad was there to run his big 530R. I have already told you that Brians quad was not stock and the results of how the pipes ran on Chads bike will not be the same on your or my bike. :macho

[mikes450r]

Originally posted by lukester720
You should take you own advise, maybe Chad will come on and set you straight. I sent a little money to Brian to help cover the costs of the test and I also sent him the Rossier pipe that was used in the test. The test was at Harlens property and Chad was there to run his big 530R. I have already told you that Brians quad was not stock and the results of how the pipes ran on Chads bike will not be the same on your or my bike. :macho

and dont forget about how much money chad has in that motor..90% of 450r owners will not go that far..

[03hdsport]

Every pipe his its goods and bads, you need to look up the web sites and read what each pipe is set up for. I run a Pro Circut T-4 and I love the low end but I dont have the $ to buy each pipe and try it out, people on here argue more than give you advice, Everyone is going to say the pipe they run is the best. Every high end pipe like sparks and yosh are going to give you good performance. But your paying for the name, Good Luck and I hope you find the pipe you need.

[devil6]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
chad502ex also did a pipe shootout, the sparks pipe took 2nd place, beat all 14 pipes execpt the rossier, and that was the non big core I can't believe what i'm reading here. I remember the sparks non big core losing to everything else in the field. I also remember no stock bike in sight. I remember this kid, ( i was told he's 15) quoting a theoretical hp number for the sparks big core, saying that it was "suppost" to produce 1.5 more hp then the reg core pipe, and therefore declared it the winner of the shootout. I will stand down if i'm wrong, but this kid hates any pipe that isnt a sparks big core, or the rossier and thats cause chad likes it. He will plug sparks any chance he gets, and i have yet to see a true fact out of him. Hey Xx, quit makin stuff up will ya? Now back to your regularly scheduled program....

:devil:

[wppracing]

Lets go to the source...... I DID the pipe test on my 450R. The mods are listed in my signature and on my website www.wppracing.com along with the pipe test results. It was NOT done on a stock 450R.
I have had the "Sparks", "LRD", "Rossier ", and the Pulse Charger.
The dyno showed the Rossier to have a higher output than the PC. I then did a a/f test between the RE and PC and jetted to the max power for each.
I now have done a ride test (seat of the pants) between the RE and PC. On the track I ride at the PC out performed the RE very slightly. The PC had more HP and Torque between 22-30 mph and you could feel that on the track. I changed the graph to MPH and came up with that info.
This is a dead subject and we all will have our opinions. If you have any questions about the test send me an email at watercraft193pro@aol.com or call me at 301-788-3343.

Since the test, I have ported the head and installed the Vortex Ignition.

[devil6]

Thank you.

Originally posted by devil6
I can't believe what i'm reading here. I remember the sparks non big core losing to everything else in the field. I also remember no stock bike in sight. I remember this kid, ( i was told he's 15) quoting a theoretical hp number for the sparks big core, saying that it was "suppost" to produce 1.5 more hp then the reg core pipe, and therefore declared it the winner of the shootout. I will stand down if i'm wrong, but this kid hates any pipe that isnt a sparks big core, or the rossier and thats cause chad likes it. He will plug sparks any chance he gets, and i have yet to see a true fact out of him. Hey Xx, quit makin stuff up will ya? Now back to your regularly scheduled program....

:devil:

lets spread more falsee information please...
it did not lose to everything else at all, ask chad, or the WP whatever guy, the sparks took 2nd on chads 530, and i did not declare it the winner, i said sparks told me it would produce 1 to 1.5 more hp, and no i dont hate any pipe but the sparks, and y would i like a pipe just because chad does? I like the rossier because it produces good power

[450Rcarbonpro]

I love the power produced by Whitebrothers Carbon pro pipe. And apparently tim farr and Team honda approve as well. The swithed to the whitebrothers pipe and look what he is doing on it this year. Last year they ran sparks pipe. I talked to whitebrothers today and the are doing his engine now aswell not sparks anymore. The obviously know what they are doing as he pulls everyone at the gate every time. Even the suzuki monster motor.

[TRXDresh]

The bottom line is Sparks needs to do some research and design. His x-6 pipe is nothing more than a mandrell bent piece of tubing with a can on it. The other pipes have much more technology built into them. Sparks is no longer the big dog on the block. His parts are all OEM dirt bike parts that he puts his name on. Thats all his stuff is, a Name. It is a performance DOG!

[450Rcarbonpro]

I know. I thought his stuff was top notch but it is only mid grade. The company that does joe byrds motors uses lots of technology to build motors. They do some impressive stuff. I think they are Call DASA but don't quote me on that.

[mikes450r]

i agree sparks just built his name in the 2 stroke world and doesnt have to do all the r&d that cost alot of money..he just sells off his name now..

Originally posted by 450Rcarbonpro
I know. I thought his stuff was top notch but it is only mid grade. The company that does joe byrds motors uses lots of technology to build motors. They do some impressive stuff. I think they are Call DASA but don't quote me on that.

well thats not all true, his stuff for people who buy it is pretty nice, enough to keep him in the market, but his stuff for good riders in insane!!! :macho but then again, what pipe company doesnt make a better pipe for racers then they do for normal people, they should give everyone the same stuff, you dont pay $500 for a coffee can pipe like rico has a picture of, you pay $500 for the best stuff, so y dont they give us it

[450Rcarbonpro]

What?? That really had nothing to do with my post. Look he builds good motors but his aftermarket products are dirt bike oem parts. Cam 03 crf 450 sold as sparks cam, jetting dirt bike. He pretty much is just an engine builder now. There are other builders that have surpassed what he can do.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 450Rcarbonpro
And apparently tim farr and Team honda approve as well.

honda and wb work close on the pipe for the R

[TRXDresh]

If you look close, Tim Farr's WB pipe is different from what we can buy. The one guy that I know who can give you the best he has regardless of wether or not you are a pro is Joe at Rossier Engineering. He actually isn't a fan of sponsoring pro's after an incident he had with a GNC pro. Anyway, I think Sparks is a good engine builder, and a great 2-stroke engine guru, but his 4-stroke stuff that the public can buy sucks. His carbuerator needle is a Honda Needle. His Cams consist of a CRF cam and a Webcam that he calls his own. His carb that he claims as a Sparks carb is is not his. For you and I to get a hopped up national level motor, it will not happen. His pipe is allright, but there are others that are much better. Don't let Sparks fool you, the HP increase is not made in the exhaust canister, it is made in the headpipe. I don't like flaming sparks, but he needs to step his game up, and everyone here needs to know the truth about the parts they are getting. I am only so enthusiastic about this subject because I have wasted tons of money on his products only to find that there is stuff out there that is much better.

[450Rcarbonpro]

Good someone who has experience with him. he can port a head like no other though.

Originally posted by TRXDresh
If you look close, Tim Farr's WB pipe is different from what we can buy. The one guy that I know who can give you the best he has regardless of wether or not you are a pro is Joe at Rossier Engineering. He actually isn't a fan of sponsoring pro's after an incident he had with a GNC pro. Anyway, I think Sparks is a good engine builder, and a great 2-stroke engine guru, but his 4-stroke stuff that the public can buy sucks. His carbuerator needle is a Honda Needle. His Cams consist of a CRF cam and a Webcam that he calls his own. His carb that he claims as a Sparks carb is is not his. For you and I to get a hopped up national level motor, it will not happen. His pipe is allright, but there are others that are much better. Don't let Sparks fool you, the HP increase is not made in the exhaust canister, it is made in the headpipe. I don't like flaming sparks, but he needs to step his game up, and everyone here needs to know the truth about the parts they are getting. I am only so enthusiastic about this subject because I have wasted tons of money on his products only to find that there is stuff out there that is much better.

wow i wasnt aware that he used a webcam also, nor was i aware his needle was the honda needle

his carb he doesnt say is his, he says he tunes it, which in a way i guess he does, jetting it lol

what was Rossier's incident with the GNC pro, and which pro was it?

Originally posted by 450Rcarbonpro
Good someone who has experience with him. he can port a head like no other though.

ya his engine building skills are insane, i had my sparks 400ex running 11.7:1 with premium because of their special coating they put on their pistons :macho

[Admin]

Originally posted by mikes450r
i agree sparks just built his name in the 2 stroke world and doesnt have to do all the r&d that cost alot of money..he just sells off his name now..

The Internet can be a great source for information when people keep their posting to the facts and not make false statements they have no clue about.

Your statement is a perfect example of what gives the Internet a bad reputation.

Do you have any clue about how many Top Pro Riders race with Curtis Sparks 4 Stroke Engines?

Well, how about, John Natalie Jr. for example. Curtis Sparks has been building his Engines this year, and he has consistently grabbed the holeshot race after race on “Old Technology”, give me a break.

Curtis Sparks did extensive R&D work on the YFZ last year with Top Pro riders, Keith Little & Jeremiah Jones, and he developed an oilier to keep the wrist pin lubricated to prevent premature wear and failure.

He attends almost every single GNC National to support his many riders and try new things, so to call him out dated and living on his 2 Stroke name is a far from the truth as anything that I have ever heard.

If you don’t know what you are talking about, keep you fingers off the keyboard.

[TRXDresh]

All I am going to say is the pro wanted a ton of money and 15 pipes for the season for him to run a Rossier. Joe couldn't justify doing this because the advertisement he was getting from the pro was not selling any pipes. The pro has since switched to Yoshi. Joe said that the funny thing is that the Pro's Yoshi pipe seems to be a copy of his. It has the steps in the same area and it has the same geometry. It sucks because Rossier is the coolest guy in the world.

Originally posted by Admin
The Internet can be a great source for information when people keep their posting to the facts and not make false statements they have no clue about.

Your statement is a perfect example of what gives the Internet a bad reputation.

Do you have any clue about how many Top Pro Riders race with Curtis Sparks 4 Stroke Engines?

Well, how about, John Natalie Jr. for example. Curtis Sparks has been building his Engines this year, and he has consistently grabbed the holeshot race after race on “Old Technology”, give me a break.

Curtis Sparks did extensive R&D work on the YFZ last year with Top Pro riders, Keith Little & Jeremiah Jones, and he developed an oilier to keep the wrist pin lubricated to prevent premature wear and failure.

He attends almost every single GNC National to support his many riders and try new things, so to call him out dated and living on his 2 Stroke name is a far from the truth as anything that I have ever heard.

If you don’t know what you are talking about, keep you fingers off the keyboard.

thank god someone is finally here to back sparks besides me :macho

[Slackjaw]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
thank god someone is finally here to back sparks besides me :macho

shut up dude, all you do is agree with whoever you think is right.


admin, well said. the rest of you should try running a few races instead of running your fingers on the keyboard. all the info in your head means nothing when the gate drops.

Originally posted by TRXDresh
All I am going to say is the pro wanted a ton of money and 15 pipes for the season for him to run a Rossier. Joe couldn't justify doing this because the advertisement he was getting from the pro was not selling any pipes. The pro has since switched to Yoshi. Joe said that the funny thing is that the Pro's Yoshi pipe seems to be a copy of his. It has the steps in the same area and it has the same geometry. It sucks because Rossier is the coolest guy in the world.

man that is horrible, i have heard a lot about Rossier but i never have talked to him, but ya i wouldnt have done that either 15 pipes...thats more then 1 pipe per race, you dont need that

Originally posted by Slackjaw
shut up dude, all you do is agree with whoever you think is right.


admin, well said. the rest of you should try running a few races instead of running your fingers on the keyboard. all the info in your head means nothing when the gate drops.

dude, you jus signed up for the forum, you probably havent even read any of this, and you are telling me to shutup :huh obviously u havent seen what i said this whole time

[Slackjaw]

oh i have been reading, alot. and im forming some opinions on who will get service and who wont in the future.

Originally posted by Slackjaw
oh i have been reading, alot. and im forming some opinions on who will get service and who wont in the future.

service? service from who, i never saw me following anyone, i believe i was the only one supporting sparks this whole time, thats y they are in my sig, but alright :confused:

[450RGNCC]

I started this thread to get peoples opinions on which pipes they thought were the best. I am not directing this towards any one person, but if all you want to do is come in here and argue with everyone elses opionion, than leave. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so dont go bashing them for their own beliefs. Just say what pipe you like, and give any other important information, and ignore everyone else. That is not too hard to do.

[TRXDresh]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mikes450r
i agree sparks just built his name in the 2 stroke world and doesnt have to do all the r&d that cost alot of money..he just sells off his name now..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The Internet can be a great source for information when people keep their posting to the facts and not make false statements they have no clue about.

Your statement is a perfect example of what gives the Internet a bad reputation.

Do you have any clue about how many Top Pro Riders race with Curtis Sparks 4 Stroke Engines?

Well, how about, John Natalie Jr. for example. Curtis Sparks has been building his Engines this year, and he has consistently grabbed the holeshot race after race on “Old Technology”, give me a break.

Curtis Sparks did extensive R&D work on the YFZ last year with Top Pro riders, Keith Little & Jeremiah Jones, and he developed an oilier to keep the wrist pin lubricated to prevent premature wear and failure.

He attends almost every single GNC National to support his many riders and try new things, so to call him out dated and living on his 2 Stroke name is a far from the truth as anything that I have ever heard.

If you don’t know what you are talking about, keep you fingers off the keyboard.





The fact of the matter is that we as regular consumers can not buy the parts that are in those engines, FACT #1. His X-6 pipe is something a monkey with a tubing builder could fabricate. That is a FACT. If you read previous threads, we give him props for his engine building skills. If he has done research, then why would he not capatalise on them by making them available to the public? Maybe his business skills are sub par. Doing an oil mod on the Yammi is simple. That is not research. The only reason he came up with the mod is becasue he couldn't make the engines live. If he is so great, tell that to Keith Little who has DNFed 3-4 times this year due to engine failure, FACT. I CAN GO ON AND ON IF YOU WOULD LIKE!

If his stuff is so great, Tim wouldn't have left his camp last year. I say if I am a pro, I would ride one of his engines, but 99.9% of us aren't, and that is why we are talking about this in a forum, FACT.

[Admin]

Originally posted by TRXDresh
If you look close, Tim Farr's WB pipe is different from what we can buy. The one guy that I know who can give you the best he has regardless of wether or not you are a pro is Joe at Rossier Engineering. He actually isn't a fan of sponsoring pro's after an incident he had with a GNC pro. Anyway, I think Sparks is a good engine builder, and a great 2-stroke engine guru, but his 4-stroke stuff that the public can buy sucks. His carbuerator needle is a Honda Needle. His Cams consist of a CRF cam and a Webcam that he calls his own. His carb that he claims as a Sparks carb is is not his. For you and I to get a hopped up national level motor, it will not happen. His pipe is allright, but there are others that are much better. Don't let Sparks fool you, the HP increase is not made in the exhaust canister, it is made in the headpipe. I don't like flaming sparks, but he needs to step his game up, and everyone here needs to know the truth about the parts they are getting. I am only so enthusiastic about this subject because I have wasted tons of money on his products only to find that there is stuff out there that is much better.

I see you have been on a flaming rampage, and seem to know the facts about everything, but I really don't feel like hearing all the negative feedback unless all the facts are given.

I know Curtis Sparks well, and I will not let someone hide behind a username and attack his products or services. End of Story because I am too busy to argue the point of using existing manufactured products.

Today, I put my 463EX on the Dyno today with X6 Curtis Sparks exhaust and it pulled 44HP and sounded awesome, so he must be doing something right.

[TRXDresh]

My 450R with Rossier pulls 47hp, and is not near as loud. I gave you the facts. I am not on a rampage, but people need to know what they are buying.

Originally posted by TRXDresh
quote:
The fact of the matter is that we as regular consumers can not buy the parts that are in those engines, FACT #1. His X-6 pipe is something a monkey with a tubing builder could fabricate. That is a FACT. If you read previous threads, we give him props for his engine building skills. If he has done research, then why would he not capatalise on them by making them available to the public? Maybe his business skills are sub par. Doing an oil mod on the Yammi is simple. That is not research. The only reason he came up with the mod is becasue he couldn't make the engines live. If he is so great, tell that to Keith Little who has DNFed 3-4 times this year due to engine failure, FACT. I CAN GO ON AND ON IF YOU WOULD LIKE!

If his stuff is so great, Tim wouldn't have left his camp last year. I say if I am a pro, I would ride one of his engines, but 99.9% of us aren't, and that is why we are talking about this in a forum, FACT.

people cant release that good of technology to the market, because then everyone would know their secrets, then all of the engine builders would be making the exact same parts, and a lot of people would go out of business

[TRXDresh]

I will not hide behind a screen name. I would tell him to his face that he needs to start putting all this "R & D" into products that we can buy.

Originally posted by TRXDresh
I will not hide behind a screen name. I would tell him to his face that he needs to start putting all this "R & D" into products that we can buy.

i dont think you realize how much R&D he actually puts in to get the best parts he can without exposing his secrets to the general market, its a lot more time then you would put in, i could tell you that

[Admin]

Originally posted by TRXDresh
All I am going to say is the pro wanted a ton of money and 15 pipes for the season for him to run a Rossier. Joe couldn't justify doing this because the advertisement he was getting from the pro was not selling any pipes. The pro has since switched to Yoshi. Joe said that the funny thing is that the Pro's Yoshi pipe seems to be a copy of his. It has the steps in the same area and it has the same geometry. It sucks because Rossier is the coolest guy in the world.

I have been at the Yoshimura facility and watched them design and build pipes and they didn't have a stack of competitor pipes anywhere to copy.

They manually build the prototype pipes from a series of smaller pipe secitons until they get the performance they are looking for and then they build the pipe off the welded together pieces. The original prototypes are kept for reference, so I know your statement about Yoshimura copying Rossier is 100% FALSE and not based on any FACTS.

Please discontinue talking about what you know nothing about.

A picture is worth a thousand words

[TRXDresh]

There are no secrets in this industry. Engines are engines, it all comes down to the physics of the motor. When my engine gets done from Rossier, it should be about 51 to 52 hp, and he will tell me everything he is doing to it. Go to any hot rod shop, and they can tell you how to get the power, but you have to be able to get the parts and do the machining/porting. The max HP the pros are getting is around 52-54 HP. You can get 58 with Alcohol. In my industry, we have motors that are 1350 HP race motors that live for 100+ hours. You do the same thing to an ATV that you do to these Race engines.

[Admin]

Originally posted by TRXDresh
I will not hide behind a screen name. I would tell him to his face that he needs to start putting all this "R & D" into products that we can buy.

I have no clue who you are, but you are about to find your username on my list of members not welcome for posting useless and false information.

Thank you in advance for disconnecting your keyboard and viewing the site only for now on while you still can.

Originally posted by TRXDresh
There are no secrets in this industry. Engines are engines, it all comes down to the physics of the motor. When my engine gets done from Rossier, it should be about 51 to 52 hp, and he will tell me everything he is doing to it. Go to any hot rod shop, and they can tell you how to get the power, but you have to be able to get the parts and do the machining/porting. The max HP the pros are getting is around 52-54 HP. You can get 58 with Alcohol. In my industry, we have motors that are 1350 HP race motors that live for 100+ hours. You do the same thing to an ATV that you do to these Race engines.

there are a lot of secrets, and almost everyone knows how to get the power, the combination and the exact match of parts is why they call you an engine builder :macho

[Admin]

Originally posted by TRXDresh
There are no secrets in this industry. Engines are engines, it all comes down to the physics of the motor. When my engine gets done from Rossier, it should be about 51 to 52 hp, and he will tell me everything he is doing to it. Go to any hot rod shop, and they can tell you how to get the power, but you have to be able to get the parts and do the machining/porting. The max HP the pros are getting is around 52-54 HP. You can get 58 with Alcohol. In my industry, we have motors that are 1350 HP race motors that live for 100+ hours. You do the same thing to an ATV that you do to these Race engines.

Obviously, you are a Rossier FAN, and I have nothing against Rossier and have heard fine things about him as a person and his products, but I will not tolerate attacking another company or making false claims as FACT.

I am sure you understand where I am coming from, and if you want to argue with me about this topic. I have a Private Message box, and I will delete any further post concerning this matter.

Thank You

[TRXDresh]

Compare that to a Rossier and see what you get. The rossier has the same bend, same steps, and has a 3 piece setup. That pipe is not what they sell to the public either. You don't think that is consequence do ya? Pipes don't grow on trees, you have to build them. When a pipe is stepped, you have to weld pieces together. It is funny that Yoshi didn't have a pro pipe for the TRX until Byrd started running one, and the fact his pipe is very similar to the pipe he was running the year before. Are you in Yoshimura everyday to see that they have never looked at any competitor's pipes? Any major R & D starts by looking at competitors equipment. I am sure Yoshi is the same way, otherwise, they would be reinventing the wheel. If you think they have never tested and speced out other pipes, you have had the wool pulled over your eyes.

Originally posted by TRXDresh
Compare that to a Rossier and see what you get. The rossier has the same bend, same steps, and has a 3 piece setup. That pipe is not what they sell to the public either. You don't think that is consequence do ya? Pipes don't grow on trees, you have to build them. When a pipe is stepped, you have to weld pieces together. It is funny that Yoshi didn't have a pro pipe for the TRX until Byrd started running one, and the fact his pipe is very similar to the pipe he was running the year before. Are you in Yoshimura everyday to see that they have never looked at any competitor's pipes? Any major R & D starts by looking at competitors equipment. I am sure Yoshi is the same way, otherwise, they would be reinventing the wheel. If you think they have never tested and speced out other pipes, you have had the wool pulled over your eyes.

it is because Byrd was the first big name pro to run their pipe, and im sure he and other pros did all the R&D work for that, R&D isnt neccisarily done by compairing parts with competitors, it is also done by testing your product with the top pros and finding ways you can make it better, and for it to make more power, just like Hiper Wheels, they "reinvented the wheel" and they didnt need to compair that to anyone

[Pappy]

wow:eek2: it is a good thing i have no opinion on pipes:devil:

Originally posted by Pappy
wow:eek2: it is a good thing i have no opinion on pipes:devil:

lol :o

[TRXDresh]

why is admin deleting posts? there is nothing wrong with talking if you are not being vulgar towards somebody, I sent a PM with no response. I guess the truth hurts.

[devil6]

Wanna see some totally new technology with no secrets?

Lookie http://www.trx450r.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=8390


Now this is reinventing the wheel. Oh, and the oil sprays sparks added to the yammi come stock on some streetbikes. It's not new.

[mikes450r]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX

his carb he doesnt say is his, he says he tunes it, which in a way i guess he does, jetting it lol


actually this is what he says on his web site..Sparks Racing carburetor kit 41mm MX style w/ TPS FCRH04450TRX41 $699.95

sounds like it is his..


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mikes450r
i agree sparks just built his name in the 2 stroke world and doesnt have to do all the r&d that cost alot of money..he just sells off his name now..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The Internet can be a great source for information when people keep their posting to the facts and not make false statements they have no clue about.

Your statement is a perfect example of what gives the Internet a bad reputation.

Do you have any clue about how many Top Pro Riders race with Curtis Sparks 4 Stroke Engines?

Well, how about, John Natalie Jr. for example. Curtis Sparks has been building his Engines this year, and he has consistently grabbed the holeshot race after race on “Old Technology”, give me a break.

Curtis Sparks did extensive R&D work on the YFZ last year with Top Pro riders, Keith Little & Jeremiah Jones, and he developed an oilier to keep the wrist pin lubricated to prevent premature wear and failure.

He attends almost every single GNC National to support his many riders and try new things, so to call him out dated and living on his 2 Stroke name is a far from the truth as anything that I have ever heard.

If you don’t know what you are talking about, keep you fingers off the keyboard.



i would like to see any normal person get a engine built with all of sparks r&d then...cause it will never happen..

[lukester720]

Originally posted by 450RGNCC
I started this thread to get peoples opinions on which pipes they thought were the best. I am not directing this towards any one person, but if all you want to do is come in here and argue with everyone elses opionion, than leave. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so dont go bashing them for their own beliefs. Just say what pipe you like, and give any other important information, and ignore everyone else. That is not too hard to do.

I think this post got overlooked and it was worth bringing up. XxHonda_RacerxX bashes on every pipe that is not a Sparks or Rossier and skews facts on several different matters. Why is it that he can say and do whatever he wants? This is not the only forum I have seen him do this on either. You know I am on a different forum mostly but I still like to come here and check things out too sometimes but XxHonda_RacerxX has really slowed me and other members I am sure from posting here. I will not say anything about Sparks, I used to run his stuff but not any more. ;)

Harlen, you have the best race coverage out there, thanks for all the hard work!

[devil6]

Originally posted by lukester720
I think this post got overlooked and it was worth bringing up. XxHonda_RacerxX bashes on every pipe that is not a Sparks or Rossier and skews facts on several different matters. Why is it that he can say and do whatever he wants? This is not the only forum I have seen him do this on either. You know I am on a different forum mostly but I still like to come here and check things out too sometimes but XxHonda_RacerxX has really slowed me and other members I am sure from posting here. I will not say anything about Sparks, I used to run his stuff but not any more. ;)

Harlen, you have the best race coverage out there, thanks for all the hard work! I agree fully with this. I come here to look around and see whats new and i find myself defending my pipe against this kid right and left. HE says he's informing people of how it performs and has no first hand experience with it. # posts last night i saw him comment on what a waste the Pc was and he has never ridden a pc equipped bike. I have been polite in the past and asked him to stop, but he seems to have this extrordinary knowledge about the PC and others and hos poorly the perform. I wish he would quit bashing what he doesen't know

[450Rcarbonpro]

Man son if you think yosh copied Rossier you are high. I have a question whose pipe was released first? Also all this crap about these pipe copanies not selling the pipe the pro's use is BS PERIOD. I personal know some these pros and you are dead wrong son. They all use the retail product. And I have the same pipe as tim farr. Same bend. In fact I call White Brothers today and talked to one of my buddies there. I ask him about the detail of tim farrs honda deal with them. He uses the retail pipe or I was gonna have my buddy get me the head pipe but it is the same. They now do all his motor work. Not sparks any more.Since last hear he has lost 4 of the top ten pros. That says something to me. But his engine work is top notch. He does not make a carb. He buys FCR from kehein and re jets them and calls them his. And charges 200 over what you can get it for. You can get them online for about 450 new. Then call sparks and buy his jet kit for 50 buck and get the same carb. He buys 03 crf 450 dirt bike cams form manufacture and sells them as sparks cam. Super lame. The yamaha engine builds are easy and mostly all the same. I know some pro yamaha guys and thier motors are nothing that 1500 could get done. These are just some basic facts so stop shooting you mouth off.

[450Rcarbonpro]

Also almost all 4 stoke pipes are stepped, little boy.

[mikes450r]

Originally posted by 450Rcarbonpro
Man son if you think yosh copied Rossier you are high. I have a question whose pipe was released first? Also all this crap about these pipe copanies not selling the pipe the pro's use is BS PERIOD. I personal know some these pros and you are dead wrong son. They all use the retail product. And I have the same pipe as tim farr. Same bend. In fact I call White Brothers today and talked to one of my buddies there. I ask him about the detail of tim farrs honda deal with them. He uses the retail pipe or I was gonna have my buddy get me the head pipe but it is the same. They now do all his motor work. Not sparks any more.Since last hear he has lost 4 of the top ten pros. That says something to me. But his engine work is top notch. He does not make a carb. He buys FCR from kehein and re jets them and calls them his. And charges 200 over what you can get it for. You can get them online for about 450 new. Then call sparks and buy his jet kit for 50 buck and get the same carb. He buys 03 crf 450 dirt bike cams form manufacture and sells them as sparks cam. Super lame. The yamaha engine builds are easy and mostly all the same. I know some pro yamaha guys and thier motors are nothing that 1500 could get done. These are just some basic facts so stop shooting you mouth off.

ya those yfz's can make some crazy power for your money

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by 450Rcarbonpro
Also almost all 4 stoke pipes are stepped, little boy.

the sparks on the 450r is not stepped or reverse megaphone design.

[29FTEX]

Originally posted by 450Rcarbonpro
I personal know some these pros and you are dead wrong son. They all use the retail product.

This doesn't look like something Sparks offers to the public.

As far as I was told (I know...told), Sparks makes custom pipes for his sponsored riders.

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/attachment.php?s=&postid=1239042

[TRXDresh]

I know for a fact Natalies pipe is stepped. My sparks pipe is not. Show a picture of your WB pipe, and we can compare it to Farrs. I know the one on the shootout was different than Farr's. By the way, Jow Byrd ran Rossier all last year, and Yoshi fabricated his pipe at the beginning of this year. That is a FACT. Enough about Sparks. Harlen and I had a conversation last night and I told him I would stop bagging on companies. To think you have the same pipe as the top pros is a longshot. Look at Natalies pipes in the pictures, then look at the pipes that we have. They are definately different. I talked to sparks last year at the National in Texas, and he had 4 pipes in the trailer for his sponsored riders that were never released. I know the facts. I would not talk about this if I didn't know the truth.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by TRXDresh
I know for a fact Natalies pipe is stepped. My sparks pipe is not. Show a picture of your WB pipe, and we can compare it to Farrs. I know the one on the shootout was different than Farr's. By the way, Jow Byrd ran Rossier all last year, and Yoshi fabricated his pipe at the beginning of this year. That is a FACT. Enough about Sparks. Harlen and I had a conversation last night and I told him I would stop bagging on companies. To think you have the same pipe as the top pros is a longshot. Look at Natalies pipes in the pictures, then look at the pipes that we have. They are definately different. I talked to sparks last year at the National in Texas, and he had 4 pipes in the trailer for his sponsored riders that were never released. I know the facts. I would not talk about this if I didn't know the truth.

i'm still trying to figure out who you are addressing?:confused:

[TRXDresh]

First off, this is the white brothers headpipe that Is offered to the public. It is the same one I have seen coupled with a carbon pro.

[TRXDresh]

This is Tim Farr's bend. They are definately different.

[TRXDresh]

Here is Dustin Wimmers Sparks pipe.

[TRXDresh]

Here is the sparks pipe that the public can buy. It has a ceramic coating, but you can see that it is all one pice of tubing. There are now welds. These are the facts.

[Pappy]

oh man...you all just know i cant stay out of this:p


first off, when a builder builds an engine for a pro rider, it will usually be set up to suit the pro's riding style..correct? i mean if farr likes more mid range power and it fits his style then the builder would make the engine produce power where farr wants it..correct? and if that is the case, would different pipes just be part of the scheme of things?

now, as far as buying what the pro's run. eventually we will be able to purchase it if the pipe (or any part) is proven to work. ive seen some parts tried and failed. im sure glad they didnt release that! you can bet there is constant R&D going on so changes arent unusual. and changes from R&D to production may have further changes(i.e. having no welds showing)

i forget what page this thread took a wrong turn, but it sure seems to me like there is alot of dead horse beating going on.

ill stick to friggon Midas pipes if it avoids these kind of threads.

Originally posted by lukester720
I think this post got overlooked and it was worth bringing up. XxHonda_RacerxX bashes on every pipe that is not a Sparks or Rossier and skews facts on several different matters. Why is it that he can say and do whatever he wants? This is not the only forum I have seen him do this on either. You know I am on a different forum mostly but I still like to come here and check things out too sometimes but XxHonda_RacerxX has really slowed me and other members I am sure from posting here. I will not say anything about Sparks, I used to run his stuff but not any more. ;)

Harlen, you have the best race coverage out there, thanks for all the hard work!

maybe its because most of my facts are true, im not trying to flame anyone, but devil6 86atc250r and others start flaming me every post i make about a pipe

I help out a lot of people on this site by providing them with information i have researched and look for in doing mods on my own bike, all my information is true, or based upon information that someone else has given me, your right im on more then 1 forum, i stopped going to .org because of people like mixxer and others jumping the ban wagon and flaming me my first day on the site when none of them even knew me, i dont think that is a very good way to support your product, but thats just my opinion

its also not true that i only like rossier and sparks pipes, i like a lot of pipes, it just so happens with the experiance i have had that rossier and sparks along with hmf and yoshi are the best pipes i like, your riding style, power range, or whatever your looking for may be different, but these 4 pipes range from the best hp, to the best torque, to the best power in sound regs, along with the best power in different power ranges with a selection of parts

I do not pick my parts for a stock bike, because i plan on building my bike, and most people who buy a 450R want to mod it, not many want to leave it stock, or they would just buy a 400ex instead of the race bred 450R

I'm not trying to flame on PC at all, but from MY EXPERIANCES with the company and his products and looking at many dynos etc, i found its not the best for my application or many other peoples applications, so i reccommend what i feel is the best pipe, thats y people make the Best Pipe threads, so they can get peoples opinions on different pipes and what people think are the best, because in all reality its only about 1-2hp or so from the best to worst pipe, thats not including such brands as cobra etc, or the off brands, and my opinion just happens to be go with rossier or sparks, i reccommend sparks first because i have had great experiances with him, talked to all of the people up there, and i really like sparks and his products, so i reccommend him to everyone

Also i would like you to notice i had said nothing bad about the PC until other people had jumped in flaming me for my opinion on the subject, i am sorry if i come off as flaming on any product, because i am truly not against anyone, their may be some products i dont like, but none that i hate, i am just providing what information i have gathered from my own research and information from other people and telling it to others to try to help them with their decisions

[devil6]

Originally posted by XxHonda_RacerxX
maybe its because most of my facts are true, im not trying to flame anyone, but devil6 86atc250r and others start flaming me every post i make about a pipe

I help out a lot of people on this site by providing them with information i have researched and look for in doing mods on my own bike, all my information is true, or based upon information that someone else has given me, your right im on more then 1 forum, i stopped going to .org because of people like mixxer and others jumping the ban wagon and flaming me my first day on the site when none of them even knew me, i dont think that is a very good way to support your product, but thats just my opinion

its also not true that i only like rossier and sparks pipes, i like a lot of pipes, it just so happens with the experiance i have had that rossier and sparks along with hmf and yoshi are the best pipes i like, your riding style, power range, or whatever your looking for may be different, but these 4 pipes range from the best hp, to the best torque, to the best power in sound regs, along with the best power in different power ranges with a selection of parts

I do not pick my parts for a stock bike, because i plan on building my bike, and most people who buy a 450R want to mod it, not many want to leave it stock, or they would just buy a 400ex instead of the race bred 450R

I'm not trying to flame on PC at all, but from MY EXPERIANCES with the company and his products and looking at many dynos etc, i found its not the best for my application or many other peoples applications, so i reccommend what i feel is the best pipe, thats y people make the Best Pipe threads, so they can get peoples opinions on different pipes and what people think are the best, because in all reality its only about 1-2hp or so from the best to worst pipe, thats not including such brands as cobra etc, or the off brands, and my opinion just happens to be go with rossier or sparks, i reccommend sparks first because i have had great experiances with him, talked to all of the people up there, and i really like sparks and his products, so i reccommend him to everyone

Also i would like you to notice i had said nothing bad about the PC until other people had jumped in flaming me for my opinion on the subject, i am sorry if i come off as flaming on any product, because i am truly not against anyone, their may be some products i dont like, but none that i hate, i am just providing what information i have gathered from my own research and information from other people and telling it to others to try to help them with their decisions What are your experiences with the pulsecharger? Have you ever seen one in person? Have you wrode a pc equipped bike? No one was flaming you when you said, And i quote, "it is a waste".So why did you say that? And don't tell me that is from your experience reading the one dyno shootout from WPP either. Not that brians shootout was flawed, but have you looked at .org many dyno sheets on the pulsecharger that completly contradict what your saying about that pipe? Or do the 50 odd riding reports i have seen all over the net in favor of that pipe not matter to you? It seems the only waste is your time as you write these so called "facts" for people to read. If you have no personal experience with the pipe DO NOT call it a waste. From what i understand your experience with the pipe and the MFG are all within one day at .org when you told him K&N's ruled and uni's suck. If you have more experience with this pipe or mfg, i wanna know what it is please.

:devil:

Originally posted by devil6
What are your experiences with the pulsecharger? Have you ever seen one in person? Have you wrode a pc equipped bike? No one was flaming you when you said, And i quote, "it is a waste".So why did you say that? And don't tell me that is from your experience reading the one dyno shootout from WPP either. Not that brians shootout was flawed, but have you looked at .org many dyno sheets on the pulsecharger that completly contradict what your saying about that pipe? Or do the 50 odd riding reports i have seen all over the net in favor of that pipe not matter to you? It seems the only waste is your time as you write these so called "facts" for people to read. If you have no personal experience with the pipe DO NOT call it a waste. From what i understand your experience with the pipe and the MFG are all within one day at .org when you told him K&N's ruled and uni's suck. If you have more experience with this pipe or mfg, i wanna know what it is please.

:devil:

yep i did tell him k&n was better, but the fact of the matter was, i was telling my opinion to a guy before mixxer even was involved, then mixxer quoted me and said i was completely wrong and that i was an idiot, i had done nothing to him at that point, so cant you see where he commited the wrong? I would like to see how well mixxer would do if he told lorren duncan that k&n sucks, much less most of the other teams that run k&n and see how it would feel for him to get flamed, instead of him calling me names the first day i was ever on .org when i had done no wrong, but we will not get into that

do i have any personal experiance with this pipe, no, have i seen one in person, yes

I said it was a waste because it costs more then all other pipes and its still not "the best" pipe out right now power wize, that is y i called it a waste, also the dynos runs at .org are not reliable what so ever, being that almost all of .org is a supporter of the pc, but yes i have seen those dynos, but i have no problem with his pipe what so ever, but it does cost more, and it doesnt make the best power, if you would like it i wont call it a waste anymore, but i will still say i dont like it, because i dont just because of the fact it costs more and still doesnt make the most hp or torque numbers

[kahuna4]

pappy you hit that one out of the park, well said

[Pappy]

welp, this thread is done. if you guys want a technical debate over which pipe is best then by all means have one without the personal slant.

xx guy....if there is another thread, i highly suggest you stay out of it. you did nothing but expend alot of energy and keep the BS rolling.

dont take that as we are choosing sides, frankly we dont care.



to the person who started this thread. the best pipe for your 450r is one that meets the criteria you set forth and is within your budget.