Help with electrical................

[Dupontster]

Ive been having a problem with my 416.Here is the problem, Sometimes it does not turn over at all or make a noise when I go to start it. But then it will start sometimes. We tried a new solinoid, a new switch which fixed it for a while then it started it again so we got another switch, Didn't fix it this time. We also put a new battery in it. Could it be my starter? Could it be a ground somewhere? Please tell me what you think it could be.

[2muchquad]

if you replaced the battery and are getting good connections,i would almost assure you you have a bad starter.it may work fine at times but when it gets to the bad spot on the armature of the starter it wont work.

[wilkin250r]

Yep, sounds like a bad starter.

It's very difficult to explain, but just like the above post said, you get bad spots where the starter won't work. You can often smack the starter to knock it out of the bad spot, and it will work. However, that's really a temporary solution, you need to replace your starter (most likely).

[Dupontster]

I believe it is the starter too....That's about the only thing that we haven't changed....But....When it does this, I take a piece of wire or a screwdriver and hit the 2 selonoid posts together and it starts right up....If it was the starter or a bad spot, why would it start like that? I am putting a starter on anyhow...Hope to he!! it works....That is aggravating when it won't start because it does it at the worst possible time....Thanks for all the input....

[plkmonster2]

If it starts all the time by connecting the two posts, your solenoid is shot, or your wiring to trigger it is messed up.

[Dupontster]

I put a new solenoid on it...I thought that was my problem....Put a new push button on the handlebars....Put a new battery in....I think I'll run 2 new wires from the push button to the solenoid...I must have a bad wire there somewhere...

[TWISTED]

A little more soap and water would probably fix it!!!! That's a joke....

[wilkin250r]

Well, yeah. If shorting the solenoid will turn the starter, then the problem is obviously either the solenoid, or the sub-circuit that activates the solenoid (starter button and wires).

[nikejoe]

I am having the exact same problem with my 416. I can short across the solinoid and it will fire. So I replaced the solinoid, now it's the same thing. Tested wires at push button start switch and have 12.67 volts, so I thought the switch was bad. Shorted the wires across that switch and it won't turn over. So I thought there had to be something in that wiring, so I went back to the starter solenoid and Shorted the 2 yellow smaller wires together and it still won't fire. I am lost on what is going on. I don't see why I have 12.67 volts across the starter switch, but when I push in the starter button or short across it and check that voltage it is around 1.8 volts. Any help would be appreciated. I am supposed to go on a ride this evening and am trying to get this fixed. Need help ASAP!!! THANK YOU!

[FoxRacing81]

Mine did something similar.

Sometimes I would hit the start button, and nothing would happen. But if I moved around a little on the seat to get the quad to move it would start to crank over and fire. and when ever that would happen, I would have it in neutral and the light wouldnt be on until I would move around....

turned out to be a ground wire by the battery was loose and when i moved it got good ground and would fire.

-Justin

[nikejoe]

Finally figured mine out! It has an aftermarket push button on it and it was shorting through that button and making contact on the back of it to the handle bars. After I took the button all the way off, I jumpered the wires together and she fires right up. Good luck with yours, got a voltage meter and start checking!

[Dupontster]

Im about to just give up. We don't have a clue what could be wrong, We checked every wire just about. The thing is it is probably something stupid and simple. If you got any more suggestions please help me.

[kegger56]

This is very odd indeed! My 416 kit is doing the same thing! I'm pretty sure we're not all suffering from a bad switch. I will post any thing that I find in hopes of us all getting to the bottom of this!!!!

[Pappy]

if your frames have been coated, check where the frame and subframe meet to assure they are making good metal to metal contact. running a second ground from the batter to an engine bolt will sometimes help.

the bike kill switches are famous for grounding out and a wrap of electrical tape at the spot where it mounts usually will fix that.

another area is where the coil grounds to the frame. sometimes a few scrapes of the paint or powdercoating will allow a much better ground.

duponster, i have a spare starter if you need to try it.

[Dupontster]

Hey all...This is Dups Dad and chief mechanic....This damn thing is driving us crazy....Put a new switch, solonoid, and battery...We have checked and rechecked wires and connections...After it was powdercoated back in Sept, we ground the coating off in spots where the subframe and frame met...It has been doing fine until about a month ago....Seems like when he takes it out for a semi hard ride and comes back in it won't do anything....We can jump the solonoid and it fires right up...When it cools down a bit it is OK...When it is working OK, I can disconnect the switch and hit the 2 wires together and it fires...Hook the switch back up and it is still OK...When it goes bad, I disconnect the switch and hit the 2 wires together and nothing...The switch it connected to an red and yellow wire that goes to the solonoid and a black with gray dots wire that goes back to the finned thing that is mounted on the frame (regulator/rectifier)....We checked and cleaned all the connections and it is working right now but we aren't too confident....My assumptions are
1) If it was the starter...Why does it start when I jump the solonoid?
2) If it is the new solonoid...Why does it start when I jump the solonoid?
3) If it is the new switch...why won't it fire when I disconnect it and hit the 2 wires together?
4) Is there something in there that gets hot and stops the starting process? When it is not warm it starts just fine...
Sorry this is so long, but this thing is getting to us...

[wilkin250r]

Electricity can be a wierd thing sometimes.

Ok, let me get this straight, and we'll see if my logic holds true.

When it's cold, it works fine. When it IS working, you can bypass the switch and manually connect the 2 switch wires together, and it works fine.

When it is NOT working, you can bypass the switch by connecting the 2 wires together, and it STILL doesn't work. This tells me that the switch is not the problem. Whether the switch is in or out of the circuit, the problem is still there.

When it's not working, you can manually jump across the solenoid, and it will work. This tells me that the solenoid is likely the problem. The problem goes away when the solenoid is taken out of the circuit.

The only other test would be to take the switch wiring out of the circuit.

This is just how it looks on the surface. There might be other issues, like poor ground connections that can cause problems, but I obviously can't diagnose those from a distance.

[Dupontster]

You are right on it with everything....I did rerplace the solonoid though....Would/could it be possible I got a bad solonoid? With the old one, I could jump it and it fired right up....I just touch the 2 posts with a screwdriver ir a jumper wire and it fires everytime....


Originally posted by wilkin250r
Electricity can be a wierd thing sometimes.

Ok, let me get this straight, and we'll see if my logic holds true.

When it's cold, it works fine. When it IS working, you can bypass the switch and manually connect the 2 switch wires together, and it works fine.

When it is NOT working, you can bypass the switch by connecting the 2 wires together, and it STILL doesn't work. This tells me that the switch is not the problem. Whether the switch is in or out of the circuit, the problem is still there.

When it's not working, you can manually jump across the solenoid, and it will work. This tells me that the solenoid is likely the problem. The problem goes away when the solenoid is taken out of the circuit.

The only other test would be to take the switch wiring out of the circuit.

This is just how it looks on the surface. There might be other issues, like poor ground connections that can cause problems, but I obviously can't diagnose those from a distance.

[wilkin250r]

A brand-new "bad" solenoid is certainly a possibility, though you are correct, it is unlikely.

From where I sit (in a cubicle far far away), the problem looks to be either a bad solenoid, or bad wiring from the switch to the solenoid.

Try to recreate the problem, and measure the voltage at the switch side of the solenoid. If you hit the starter button, and you see 12V, but the starter doesn't turn, then the problem is solenoid. If you don't see 12V, then the problem is in the switch or the wiring.

[Dupontster]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
A brand-new "bad" solenoid is certainly a possibility, though you are correct, it is unlikely.

From where I sit (in a cubicle far far away), the problem looks to be either a bad solenoid, or bad wiring from the switch to the solenoid.

Try to recreate the problem, and measure the voltage at the switch side of the solenoid. If you hit the starter button, and you see 12V, but the starter doesn't turn, then the problem is solenoid. If you don't see 12V, then the problem is in the switch or the wiring.

Thanks for the help man....Really appreciate it....I'm pretty sure the problem is in the wiring somewhere..."If you don't see 12V, then the problem is in the switch or the wiring."Do you mean the "Switch" or starter push button? The switch is about the only thing that I haven't replaced yet....

[wilkin250r]

Uh-oh. We had better make sure we are both on the same page.

When you said "switch", I assumed that you were talking about the starter pushbutton, and I figured I would follow. Any time I said "switch", I was talking about the starter pushbutton.

The solenoid will have two sides, two sets of contacts. It will have the starter "button" side, and the starter "motor" side.

A solenoid is like a switch, like the light switch in your house. Flick the switch "ON" and electricity can flow, flick the switch "OFF" and electricity will stop. However, instead of flicking it manually with your finger, it is controlled by another set of electrical contacts.

If you apply electricity to the "button" side, it will turn the motor side "ON", and electricity will flow to the starter motor. If you don't have electricity to the button side, the motor side is "OFF".

So, you need to find out if you are getting electricity to the button side of the solenoid when you push the starter button, and it should be 12 volts. If you ARE getting 12V to the button side, and the starter doesn't turn, then the solenoid, the starter motor, or starter motor wiring is bad.

If you are NOT getting 12V to the solenoid when you push the starter button, then the kill switch, key switch, or wiring from the starter button is bad.

EDIT: Scratch that, kill switch doesn't affect the starter motor or button, only the spark. The starter will still turn even if the kill switch is "off".

[T.Hopp]

I had or I hope I had the same problem. It turned out to be a grounding issue which caused a voltage drop. Not enough voltage to activate the starter solenoid. Not even enough to get it to chatter. It wouldn't allow my neutral light to come on and it took out the headlights also.