For whoever says White Bros is Bad...

[300excrazy98]

THis is for all those people who say White Brothers Exhuast Systems Suck-

http://www.atvnews.com/output.cfm?id=30961

Click on the Link and Read up!

At peak HP White Bros and Sparks on a 400ex have the highest peak Hp out of almost all the other systems like TC, HMF, etc.


Just wanted to make a point!

[Mxjunkie]

Just goes to show you those low pipes are over rated. The tc made 25 and the whitebros made 27, granted lowend and such on the pipes is differnt. I still dont see why a pipe thats almost 110db is needed.

[NacsMXer]

Peak HP don't mean squat. It's all about the power delivery. Even though the White Brothers and Sparks are pretty close in peak power, I'd be willing to bet that they have completely different power curves. That review doesn't provide any dyno graphs, so basically the review is useless to anybody besides the average joe who's only concerned about peak HP :rolleyes: Each pipe will perform better in a different part of the powerband, so it's not all about peak HP at all, it's about the application for that pipe. For instance, if all you were concerned about is peak power for desert racing, then you would choose the White Brothers pipe right? Wrong. You're gonna need a high-end pipe for that application so choosing the highest peak HP pipe would be misleading ;)

[jcv400ex]

here's the power delivery on the White bros. It is an excellent choice for the 400ex.

[NacsMXer]

I agree, the White Brothers is a good pipe, it is very popular for a reason. I wasn't knocking it in my post, I was simply pointing out that you can't pick a pipe just because it has the highest peak HP.

[Racing Rice]

One thing to note is that the WB exhaust is considerably heavier then most. Not that it REALLY matters.:)

[APK400exRacer]

Just to add in, from the pics they were testing just slip-on's or just full pipes. It was a mixture, like the HMF was a Slip-On yet the WB was a full pipe so i mean :huh

[400exrules]

HMF all the way :devil:

[jcv400ex]

On a stock 400ex, full exhaust isn't going to do much for you. The stock headpipe is big enough and flows very good.

[LuckyOxygen]

Hey, how many pros run a white bros? Hell, I think they'd be running what produces the most h/p

[chucked]

That things like 5 years old, I saw it before I even bought my first quad. It means nothing now.

[yoshz400rider]

Bryan Cook runs a whitebrothers at least he did last year. They installed a quiet pipe so he would pass the db test. Carmichael and Reed also ran white brothers outdoors last year.

[Rastus]

Yes.., the pros will run what produces the highest numbers. But the last time I checked the E-series wasn't a full out race exhaust, and pros don't have to worry about ticking the neighbors off with a ridiculously loud exhaust. Did it occur to you that you need a spark arrestor to ride in places? How many race pipes have spark arrestors?

Considering the power to noise ratio, I'd say it's a very nice pipe.


Don't get me wrong, there are other nice pipes too like HMF, etc. Some people in this thread are just trying to compare apples to oranges.

[jcv400ex]

Chucked,

explain to me why that that does not apply now?! I really want to know your explaination behind this one......it should be a good one.

Lucky,

So the DG pipe must be the best for a 450r since Tim Farr runs it?

The amount of HP a exhaust system will add is related to the engine mods you have. For a mild modded to stock 400ex engine, the E series Slip-on is a good choice. If you've added a aftermarket carb, have porting work, running high compression, a big cam, then you would choose a different exhaust system. The exhaust system compliments the engine mods......


Any other dip**** comments or dumb questions?

[trick450r]

Originally posted by jcv400ex
Chucked,

explain to me why that that does not apply now?! I really want to know your explaination behind this one......it should be a good one.

Lucky,

So the DG pipe must be the best for a 450r since Tim Farr runs it?

The amount of HP a exhaust system will add is related to the engine mods you have. For a mild modded to stock 400ex engine, the E series Slip-on is a good choice. If you've added a aftermarket carb, have porting work, running high compression, a big cam, then you would choose a different exhaust system. The exhaust system compliments the engine mods......


Any other dip**** comments or dumb questions?

as far as i know...thats not really a DG pipe that farr runs...it just has a DG sticker cuz they sponsor him...

[chucked]

Originally posted by jcv400ex
Chucked,

explain to me why that that does not apply now?! I really want to know your explaination behind this one......it should be a good one.

Lucky,

So the DG pipe must be the best for a 450r since Tim Farr runs it?

The amount of HP a exhaust system will add is related to the engine mods you have. For a mild modded to stock 400ex engine, the E series Slip-on is a good choice. If you've added a aftermarket carb, have porting work, running high compression, a big cam, then you would choose a different exhaust system. The exhaust system compliments the engine mods......


Any other dip**** comments or dumb questions?


Wtf??? So NO EXHAUST COMPANY MADE ANY CHANGES TO THEIR EXHAUST SYSTEM OVER THE PAST 5 YEARS!!?? As far as I know, every single one I can think of has changed in some sort of way.... Its outdated!!

[Rastus]

Why change it if the current product works well? :confused:

[400exrules]

Originally posted by Rastus
Why change it if the current product works well? :confused:

why change anything then?

companies all over the world are constantly experimenting and looking for ways to improve their products. Why the hell would u make a product and then just throw it on the market without ever trying to improve it in any way?

[chucked]

And those numbers are from a stock motor, with a different main jet and a k&n air filter. Shows nothing to do with bigger bores, carbs, cams, porting, valves, compression...

[roostin_dale]

I'll still stick with Sparks/TC/ and HMF...;)

[Rastus]

Originally posted by 400exrules
why change anything then?

companies all over the world are constantly experimenting and looking for ways to improve their products. Why the hell would u make a product and then just throw it on the market without ever trying to improve it in any way?



Wait.., are we talking about little crap like an insignia or a total revamp?

I'm talking about the original E-series pipe, not the new versions.

I can see small improvements on a product because they don't cost a lot to implement.

R&D costs money to produce/retrofit a product, and you have to weight that against the possible gain. Would WB gain a lot of customers by changing their current design or not? I know I wouldn't rush out and buy the latest pipe just because it's got a few new things.


I'm not gonna argue about it, it's silly anyway. Just buy what you want. :confused:

[04'400ex'er]

Originally posted by jcv400ex
Chucked,

explain to me why that that does not apply now?! I really want to know your explaination behind this one......it should be a good one.

Lucky,

So the DG pipe must be the best for a 450r since Tim Farr runs it?

The amount of HP a exhaust system will add is related to the engine mods you have. For a mild modded to stock 400ex engine, the E series Slip-on is a good choice. If you've added a aftermarket carb, have porting work, running high compression, a big cam, then you would choose a different exhaust system. The exhaust system compliments the engine mods......


Any other dip**** comments or dumb questions? heres a comment for ya. You decide if it's dip****. The reason many people look down upon wb e series is because hundreds and hundreds of welds and mounting brackets have been broken on that pipe. Power is decent and comparable with other top exhausts, but I would rather have a well constructed pipe that is close in power that be buying a new one after the first year due to a broken weld. but thats just me...

[hondarider2006]

Originally posted by 04'400ex'er
I would rather have a well constructed pipe that is close in power than be buying a new one after the first year due to a broken weld. but thats just me...

I will agree with you. I had a WB e-series and my welds broke, biggest reason I hate the pipe. And I know many many many more have broken. I will run my TC any day over a white brothers:cool:

[2muchquad]

bottm line is just about any exhaust will be better than stock.(after all this is why they are bought in the first place).im sure every brand has had their problems.i run what i get a deal on,im my own sponsor:)

[jcv400ex]

The only changes to the WB, has been to strengthen the mounting brackets...... And it doesn't matter if the damn test is 5 years old, they haven't changed anything.

Like I said, this is for a stock motor. You have to match the engine mods to the exhaust......

I'm getting to the point of looking like half the people on here....arguing over the internet, makes you look like a retard.......so I'm done with ya'll.:chinese:

[BLEEDRED]

The reason many people look down upon wb e series is because hundreds and hundreds of welds and mounting brackets have been broken on that pipe.

I believe that this is the main reason people paint with broad strokes and say WB sucks!!!!!!!! You can't argue the fact that WB's pipes probably produce just as much power as the next guys, are extremely tunable and look nice. But if they can't hold up to the test of time then people are going to say they are no good. Just my $.02.

[chucked]

WB isnt the only one that has changed, Big guns had a change in the shape of the pipe because it was too close to the clutch cable. Same deal with the Fat Boy 4 except it changed in a different area. The FMF Power Core 4 has had the end cap changed for more power. The race core for the Pro Circuit T4 changed.

And that test isnt good anyway. Who's going to judge a pipe by a few HP? HP will change with temperature, humidity, friction. Oiling a chain will give you more HP. They may have got more HP out of a pipe in the morning then at night because the temp was less and the humidity was less. Moving Parts heated up, causing friction, even heat between the tires and the dyno wheel will kill horse power. Also if someone is sitting on the quad it will get less horse power then if someone is off. OR if it was strapped down to tight, etc... I guarantee if someone else did the test on a different dyno they would get different rates.

[UglyMotha™]

now this has been an entertaining thread........... so many people that talk just to hear there brain rattle :rolleyes:

[400exredrider]

why get in a pissing contest? everyone in here is going to defend their brand of pipe... because most likely they put a wad of cash on it to get it, i will tell you i have tested and seen many exhausts in action,, i had and still use a e series,, i have the older version when they were first pre dented,, i ride alot this is on my 416 that has this on it and its an XC quad,,, if you ask me most XC quads take a beating, this pipe for me has been flawless,,, despite what other people say to defend their brand theres always going to be both opinions,, im sorry to the people that have had bad luck with the e series,, but if you ask me,,,most pipes are nothing more than a little flow are they? thats what makes the e series great, not only can you make it shorter or longer, you can add resistance or have a full out no spark arrested exhaust,,, theres no reason to get in a pissing fight about it and try to say whose better because we all know every quad is different

[z400riderz400]

i have an e-series andi love it other then when i ride the roads to get home at nights, ppl call the cops cuase of the noise, lol

[F-16Guy]

I've had the weld problem, too, but aside from that, the e-series has been a good pipe. I like the fairly mellow tone, the tuneability, and the way it looks (say what you want, but it's a factor for me). Power-wise, I would probably have a hard time discerning the power difference between it and another pipe; I think a lot of it is mental. As far as the welds go, they can pretty easily be beefed up by a decent tig welder. I'm lucky enough to work with some very good machinist/welders, so it wasn't a problem. Another thing I did was getting rid of the solid mounting. The flex and vibration on a solid-mounted pipe puts a lot of stress on any weak point. If Honda engineers rubber-mounted the silencer, then it should be rubber mounted. Period.

[muddy400EX]

i used to have a yellow 400 and i put the e-series slip on on it and it was a nice pipe, never had one problem with it. but i got a different 400 and i decided to go with an open pipe instead of the disc and i love it! the HMF is better IMO. looks better, sounds better, and even tho its only a slip-on i could swear it has more power than my e-series did!

[RiderTRX400ex]

i got a e series... love it... you guys shouldnt judge it just cuz of what you hear or just because the welds break on the mounting bracket... mine has started to crack but i got it welded and its a lot strong now.. easy for me to say with a dad owning a welding shop... :D

[Vince44]

Does everybody here are talking for like 2-3 hp ??
I think that almost every axhaust are better than stock and that finish here.
every bike can be fast whereever the exhaust it have

Why not ride Strait pipe like the harley rider lol !! :D

[04'400ex'er]

Originally posted by RiderTRX400ex
i got a e series... love it... you guys shouldnt judge it just cuz of what you hear or just because the welds break on the mounting bracket... mine has started to crack but i got it welded and its a lot strong now.. easy for me to say with a dad owning a welding shop... :D How could you not judge it because of the welds breaking?:huh It will always be a factor to at least take into consideration for anyone who is thinking about buying the pipe. Power is just the half of the pipe. The construction and durability is the other half.

[BLEEDRED]

I didn't want to pile on, but I agree that what RiderTRX400ex was one of the most invalid things I have ever heard. You absolutely have to take everything into consideration when talking about over all quality of a product. A known history of cracked welds is more than enough to steer me away from a product.

[<DRS>GPF]

i havent cracked mine yet.. a couple of the guys ive rode with have broke them and other brands as well though..

recently.. one had a pro-circuit that always leaked anyway, the other was an hmf.. both broke at the same ol place as any..
others we ride with have had good and bad experiences with anything from stock to whatever..
some people are just hard on things.. rolling and tumbling etc adds to the issues with any brand..

im not saying that ive got a miracle silencer that just wont die, but it came with it and ill drive it til it drops.. so far so good..

eventually i want a quieter quad but dont want to lose any HP or torque, which may be the only reason i change to another brand if i cant get this one toned down..

[RiderTRX400ex]

04ex'r... i see what your saying but... think about it... whos gunna go and buy a whole new exhaust when the bracket breaks.. find a local welding shop with a tig ( i think its tig) welder and have them fix it... take them5-10 minutes to run a new bead on it and if they are good it will look just as good as new... and it will burn a hole in your pocket with 5 or 10 bucks

[muddy400EX]

dude, maybe you dont care if a $250 exhaust will break when you buy it, but most people do:huh

[RiderTRX400ex]

dont you think you have that risk with any exhaust? i know it probably happens more with the es series i guess... but its not impossible for one to break

[muddy400EX]

Originally posted by RiderTRX400ex
dont you think you have that risk with any exhaust? i know it probably happens more with the es series i guess... but its not impossible for one to break

yes, but no other exhaust has the reputation of breaking like the E does;)

[chevtuff454]

I was very pleased with my e-series i purchased with my new 03' 400ex. I never had a problem with it, no cracks or broken welds. I loved the sound, and would purchase another anyday. Just my opinion.

[400eXr1d3rZ]

My e-series sucked, i hated it, so i got a full sparks :D

[quadgod440ex]

Originally posted by NacsMXer
Peak HP don't mean squat. It's all about the power delivery. Even though the White Brothers and Sparks are pretty close in peak power, I'd be willing to bet that they have completely different power curves. That review doesn't provide any dyno graphs, so basically the review is useless to anybody besides the average joe who's only concerned about peak HP :rolleyes: Each pipe will perform better in a different part of the powerband, so it's not all about peak HP at all, it's about the application for that pipe. For instance, if all you were concerned about is peak power for desert racing, then you would choose the White Brothers pipe right? Wrong. You're gonna need a high-end pipe for that application so choosing the highest peak HP pipe would be misleading ;)


I agree ... people always think the most hp is the best route, Wrong . Im still gonna have to say whitebrothers wouldnt be my first second or third choice of exhaust.

[quadgod440ex]

Holy **** i didnt realize this thread was fregin 2 years old ... Someone was diggin through the archives to bring this one back. Trash this thing

[400exrider707]

I remember the shootout in yamawheels. They didn't tune any of them, they just slapped in whatever jetting the pipe manufacturer recommended. That is not a good way to go about finding the most horsepower. Basically the E series got lucky and hit jetting on the head with their recommendations.

[07250ex]

personally i dont even think the e series is loud lol