long travel shocks?

[chris450R]

well i did a search for my question but all i found was just about brand of shocks and a-arms not length. so, what is the normal length on long travel shocks for the front of the 450R? i am not real sure but does it depend on what a-arms you get? and if so what length shocks work the best over others? if it helps any elkas are what i am looking at. any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks, chris

[R3Concepts]

19-20.5 free length depending on arm maker

[ThumPIN_450R]

as for the shock brand elkas in my experiance seem to have a more firm feeling to them while axis and pep seem to be more plush sit lower and handle better it depends on what you want I prefer pep but all three are good and have there strengths

[Out_Sider]

jb lt arms use an 18inch shock i believe (as do laegers non protrax i beleive)

[bobbo97f150]

450R JB LT a-arms take a 20 inch shock.

[KEVIN132]

i have houser lt +2 i have elka elites quad rate they measure 19.5 and stock is 16.5 this is bolt hole to bolt hole! hope this helps!!!!!!

[chris450R]

yeah that helps alot! i was looking at the quadrate fronts for sure. i think i was going to go +3 on the a-arms with a 4-1 offset wheel.

thanks to everyone else for the info it really help out alot.

chris

[chris450R]

so what is it exactly that makes the long travel, long travel beside the length of shocks? is it the location of the lower shock mount? moved out? if so how far out is the shock mount moved for a 19.5" shock verus the stock 16.5" mount location?

well the reason i am asking is because i have designed my own a-arms and i am going to build them and need to know how far out the shock mount need to be for a 19.5" shock? if that is the differnece in long travel and standard travel. sorry to be so confusing. if anyone know for sure let me know

thanks, chris

[R3Concepts]

Originally posted by chris450R
so what is it exactly that makes the long travel, long travel beside the length of shocks? is it the location of the lower shock mount? moved out? if so how far out is the shock mount moved for a 19.5" shock verus the stock 16.5" mount location?

well the reason i am asking is because i have designed my own a-arms and i am going to build them and need to know how far out the shock mount need to be for a 19.5" shock? if that is the differnece in long travel and standard travel. sorry to be so confusing. if anyone know for sure let me know

thanks, chris

As the owner of a metal fab shop, I try to steer people away from doing this, theres a lot you need to take into account, geometry items, leverage ratios, spindle inclination, ball joint travel, heims or solid top mounts, etc etc..Its not near as easy as it looks, and if its at all different from side to side then the front end will never track straight, and youll never get it close on camber/caster/toe. IF you do, then make sure you use a jig, keep it in the jig when welding to minimize flex...By the way I got LSR +2 DC4s LT arms for sale for a 450R..PM me if interested.

[chris450R]

yes i know exactly what you are talking about. i am in college right now studying to become an engineer, and trust me, i have thought about all that stuff. and yes when i do this i am going to build a jig so that it will be the same on both sides. but the only real question i have is about the lower shock mounting location for long travel 19.5" verus standard travel 16.5", so that i can get that in the right place so the geometry will work right with the longer shocks. but thanks for the warning anyway.

[Pappy]

correct me if im wrong, but the shock mount stays the same (lower) wether its a LT or standard set up. :confused: the mount maybe lower or higher but still in the same relative distance from the frame:confused:

[TBD]

Originally posted by chris450R
yes i know exactly what you are talking about. i am in college right now studying to become an engineer, and trust me, i have thought about all that stuff. and yes when i do this i am going to build a jig so that it will be the same on both sides. but the only real question i have is about the lower shock mounting location for long travel 19.5" verus standard travel 16.5", so that i can get that in the right place so the geometry will work right with the longer shocks. but thanks for the warning anyway.

I don't mean to be a jerk, but if you're in college to be an engineer then wouldn't you want to figure out the math yourself. I've been building suspension components for a long time and learning the math is one of the first things I did.
Pappy, It's not in the sameplace off the frame. It is out a little further.
I could tell you the measurement right now but that wouldn't help you. Plus you would have to trust that I got it right.

[TRXDresh]

I am a graduating college engineer, and I understand fully what all these guys are saying. Your measurement is going to be specific to the type of A-arms you make. Gull wing style A-arms are going to be different than standard a-arms because the moment of inertia is different. You have to build prototypes and ride them to see how they react with the terrain and track. No two setups are going to be the same. You need to make sure you take your time and know what you are doing. You need to choose the right material that does not become brittle after you weld it. Stay away from mig welding because of the intense temperature at which you weld it. Make sure to look at a Machineries handbook to find the best material, then hope to God you got it right. Riding what you have made is one thing, hurting someone else because of overlooking design constraints is another. I want to do the same thing as you, yet I know it will take months and years of research, design, and validation before it is right. Just my 2 cents.

[Smoker]

Hey TBD, did you ever find the name of that book? Just wondering. Chris450r, ever thought about making a linkage front suspension, I designed one on autocad and had some interesting results as far as travel, I'm still trying to learn the math if TBD would get me the name of the book he uses :p

[chris450R]

TBD, well yeah i might want to do the calculations for it, but if i can just ask and get the answer then no need to do the calculations. i never said i wasn't lazy.:D anyway if you had told me, yes i would trust your measurements but i would then use them and test and check to make sure. i would have something to work towards. and yes i am going to do some calculatioins, i mean i will have to. but as for being lazy, doesn't mean that i would be lazy in design, fabrication, and funstionality of them. i am fully aware of everyting that you all are telling me. it not like i am going to make them in a day and then try and ride on them. i plan on spending some time on them and making sure that i get it right the first time. as for material, i had planned on using 4130 chromoly 1" diameter tube with an 1/8" wall thickness(lower) and a 3/4" with 1/16" wall thickness(upper). all brought together with some fine tig welding. ball joints i am still trying to find what i want but i am considering lower integrated with upper camber adjustable.

volkswagon ball joints work good, i think they are off of a bus a guy builts his own and thats what he uses and the are very strong.

I seem to remember seeing someone, probably in one of the endurance races overseas where they build wierd and unique race quads, someone had built a linkage front end. It was in a DW or ATV Action mag and only a picture.
I would think though that even using billet that the added benefit you would get wouldn't justify the added weight and moving parts.

[TBD]

Sorry about that smoker. I haven't been able to find the book. Chris450R, first of all don't use the VW ball joints that are mentioned. If you're going to use ball joints then use the Laeger style. I also do not recomend hiems on the lowers. Spherical at the spindle is ok.
Smoker, if you have numbers for the link I can run it through my program if you want.

[chris450R]

Originally posted by TBD
Sorry about that smoker. I haven't been able to find the book. Chris450R, first of all don't use the VW ball joints that are mentioned. If you're going to use ball joints then use the Laeger style. I also do not recomend hiems on the lowers. Spherical at the spindle is ok.
Smoker, if you have numbers for the link I can run it through my program if you want.

yeah i looked at the laeger's, that is probably what i will go with but i am still looking around to see what else is out there i could use. but thanks for the imput.

chris