Linkage????? [Archive] - ATV Riders Forum

ml450r

04-18-2005, 01:49 PM

ml450r

04-18-2005, 01:51 PM

BTW, you want a linkage that will run a longer shock. 17" Axis/pep can build a better shock if it is longer. IMO

RedRacer44

04-18-2005, 02:13 PM

The GT Thunder MX Linkage wont bottom out on the air-box. It is the XC linkage that requires you to mod the airbox so that everything clears. I have the MX linkage, and no problems yet to report as far as hitting the airbox.

ms250r

04-18-2005, 02:22 PM

I am using the new PEP linkage that Baldwin is just now making for the public and the PEP 8 click single rate rear shock, and it works good. ( cant use dual rate shock with the linkage.)

quadjeff

04-18-2005, 03:22 PM

Holz service is top notch and he has everthing in stock. Call Johnny at JH racing and ask him about Holz knowledge and service. He backs his products and the people who use it.;)

Out_Sider

04-18-2005, 03:31 PM

im goin full herrmann racing products on my 450r

dantwo

04-18-2005, 03:49 PM

Lone Star has a linkage equal to the Walsh set up. They are both a little different from each other, but with the LSR you can get a skid plate to fit it. We are making a stainless skid plate to protect the rear sprocket and rotor. Also their will be a plastic guard that will protect the shock and lower linkage assembly. We want it to be used for MX and with the skid plate feature Cross Country as well. It uses an 18” shock and the ratio dose not change at all through its travel. That makes it very easy and predictable for shock set ups. So there are many to pick from and if you have any questions please ask.

Dan @ LSR

450r#221

04-18-2005, 04:55 PM

Ive got DeRisi's linkage.I think its similar to GTT's.No bottoming out on my airbox but i did have to modify my skidplate.Santo said he's working with PRM on one.Here is the DeRisi linkagehttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/450r221/Picture092a3.jpg

froggy97

04-18-2005, 06:30 PM

hey how long did it take to get yours shocks back from derisi i want to send him mine pretty soon. also are you happy with everything
Thanks

86atc250r

04-18-2005, 07:56 PM

Lets see a pic Dan @ LSR...

Lets also see a pic of the Baldwin setup.

RandRRrider

04-18-2005, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by 86atc250r
Lets see a pic Dan @ LSR...

Lets also see a pic of the Baldwin setup.

I second that!!

dantwo

04-19-2005, 07:48 AM

Have no phot's of the skid plate yet, but very soon. They are being cut on the lazer this very minute....

dantwo

04-19-2005, 07:52 AM

Here is one on a bike, but they will come all black.

andrew75

04-19-2005, 07:53 AM

sweet setup dan when will it be avaliable to the public i would like to try one

dantwo

04-19-2005, 07:56 AM

They are ready now. Also you guys know how your rear fender comes up under your tank, and you tend to hook it with your legs. You will start pealing them back a little at a time. I have a cheap fix to prevent it and you can also find it yourself.

86atc250r

04-19-2005, 08:05 AM

Nice looking setup Dan.

You said it uses an 18" shock? How much shaft travel does that provide?

dantwo

04-19-2005, 08:59 AM

5.5" of shaft travel...

86atc250r

04-19-2005, 09:05 AM

Excellent, thanks for the info....

honda250xrider

04-19-2005, 09:34 AM

with the proper shock setup what kind of travel are you getting from this linkage?

jesse

04-19-2005, 09:58 AM

Dan I will be Calling you about this set up . but for now can you give me a ruff price???
thanks Jesse:eek2: :D

dantwo

04-19-2005, 10:01 AM

11" of travel for MX and you can get all the way to 12" of travel used for Cross Country.

dantwo

04-19-2005, 10:15 AM

Now this is a top of the line up grade for your rear end just like the Walsh. You can do a GT thunder rear end that dose work very well and save some money. The linkage comes complete just like the black one above. All your bolts, seals, and pivot tubes are included. The pivot tubes are OEM TRX 450 parts, so when you take your stock linkage off you will have some spare parts to save. A powder coated swing arm with a black anodize linkage sells for $1,099.00 (You can also get it chromed for $179.00 more). The one’s I have in stock can not run the plastic guard for the shock, but the next ones will and that will be included in the price as well. Their will be an adder for skid plate mounts because when you order skids it will come with a skid plate. The skid plate is made of stainless steal and allows a TM design rear chain guide bolt to it for extra support. I should have pictures of this, I hope by Wednesday the 20th. If you have any question please ask.
Thanks
Dan @ LSR

jesse

04-19-2005, 03:40 PM

thanks Dan I think i found what I am going 2 get . and thanks 4 all the other info from all the other members . I still have 1 ??? for you dan . is there any way i can get it polished like the one pic with the swing arm ?? i think it would look alot better on my 450 that way????
Thanks Jesse

quadjeff

04-19-2005, 04:08 PM

Looks nice. How much testing do you have on it? Price is almost the same as Holz and Walsh.. Make sure you only ride MX on all three... I ripped the linkage off mine riding XC. Like I said before Mark At Holz replaced at no charge and now has a killer linkage that will work with a stock swinger for XC or MX... The only reason I ask on the testing everyone from roll,walsh, holz etc have had to work out the bugs. Mainly the bind placed on the swingarm breaks off at the pivot point. I know all three guys have that fixed now. Good luck..

450r#221

04-19-2005, 04:55 PM

Hey Froggy,Its like a 2 wk turnaround on the revalve.Im very happy with the setup.I dont have alot of extra $$$ for top of the line goodies(Elka,Axis,Walsh.....)Ive got a shorty to put through school and retirement thats more important,but i can tell you this,Santo did a great job for me and offered alot of setup advice/tech support to back up his work.Its probably the best upgrade for the price that ive done.Hope that helps.:macho

PS here's another pichttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/450r221/Picture091.jpg

Dave400ex

04-19-2005, 09:44 PM

That linkage does look nice, but it needs something to protect the rebound adjuster for sure...

RandRRrider

04-19-2005, 10:12 PM

Dan, do you have to buy a new swingarm or can you just get the linkage and put this on other aftermarket swingarms (i.e. JB Racing)

Honda

04-19-2005, 10:21 PM

Both of my 450's have Walsh linkage. I have no complaints. I wouldn't rule the other linkages out. I feel that walsh is the best but there customer service sucks. The problem with GT thunder and Houser, they both bottom out into the airbox. I don't like things breaking. I don't know enough about the Holz or ARS linkages. I think I would try something else if I was to build another 450r, But walsh works good.

Houser sells an air box lifter kit to prevent the linkage from hitting the air box, a problem which should be kind of expected when you start demanding more travel out of the rear suspension. I have the setup on my machine and it works very, very well, hell the longer swingarm made an extremely large difference alone. She jumps better (a lot less nose high), steers with more precision (not as tippy), doesn't want to loft the front end unless you want to, rides alot more like I remember my 250R did, only better.

These parts will make a huge difference, well worth the money spent.

ml450r

04-20-2005, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by Honda
a problem which should be kind of expected

Expected? These companies make the products for us. They research what will happen. A walsh set up does not hit the airbox. I shouldn't have to raise the airbox for the rear shock to work. IMO.

quadjeff

04-20-2005, 06:55 AM

My Holz set-up does not hit the airbox. Like I said Walsh and Holz have been testing there hardware for a year.. Get what you pay for...

dantwo

04-20-2005, 07:25 AM

Let see we have had countless hours on testing this linkage. I have had Tim Farr testing one for me since the first national, Glen Helen. He loves it and is still running it on one of his practice bikes. I have a few local riders that I work with and a few Cross Country riders. The cross Country riders love it, but it needs a skid plate and a guard for the rebound adjustment. We do have a guard getting made to protect the rebound adjustment and that I should have some photos with the skid plate as well. So as soon as I ship them those items they will be back on it. They like it better than any other linkage they have tried. One more guy that is testing it is John Natalie, but Fox has not been very successful on making a shock work with it. PEP and Axis have got it down perfect and can easily build you a shock to your style of riding. I know Elka is working on a shock and it should be done soon. You do need to buy our swing arm with our linkage, but their might be some other companies building their swing arm for our linkage. I will keep you posted on that. Also our linkage dose not hit the air box at all, if the shock is build properly. Last one and I think this covers everyone, I can get the linkage polished. It might take a little longer but will look almost chromed. Well I feel I have told you all there is to know about this linkage but if you have more questions please ask.
Dan @ LSR

86atc250r

04-20-2005, 08:18 AM

Expected? These companies make the products for us. They research what will happen. A walsh set up does not hit the airbox. I shouldn't have to raise the airbox for the rear shock to work. IMO.

Well, if you want to set the bottommed out frame height to it's proper level with tires larger than 18" - you're going to have to raise the airbox a little to make it happen - unless you want to compromise in the other direction.

Personally, why would I be willing to compromise though if I were spending big bucks to fix that very problem?

In other words - if you are buying a setup for 20" tires that doesn't require some airbox work, you should be very suspect of what it's really going to gain you.

Both the Houser and one of GT Thunder's setups were developed specifically for 20" tires and XC use.

The Walsh setup likely wasn't set up for 20" tires - in that case, it won't need to compress the suspension far enough to cause airbox issues.

It's not that Walsh did a better job than anyone else - it's that their setup was not intended for XC size tires and doesn't have to make the compromises for that type of setup to work properly.

Personally I think it's far more ridiculous that people are giving Walsh 1/3 (or more) the initial price of the quad for a rear shock and swingarm..... Hell, IMHO it should also add 15hp to the quad, scare little old ladys, and fix me breakfast in the morning for what they charge.

CdaleXtreme

04-20-2005, 08:49 AM

It uses an 18” shock and the ratio dose not change at all through its travel.

Isnt that the whole point of a linkage system? To change the leverage ratio throughout the travel of the shock? For a More progressive ride?

In My personal experience My Walsh Stuff has lasted 2 to 1 of my lonestar stuff. As far as swing-arms go anyhow.

:rolleyes:

Also, Tim May use that stuff on his practice bike, But look what he is using to Podium at GNC events with!

86atc250r

04-20-2005, 09:17 AM

Isnt that the whole point of a linkage system? To change the leverage ratio throughout the travel of the shock? For a More progressive ride?

That is one thing a linkage system *can* do -- although seldom is the leverage ratio the true problem.

The linkage also sets up more important parameters - in the case of the 450R there are a couple problems.

One being it uses a shock with a small amount of travel - this makes tuning more difficult. The short shock can be tuned to perform similarly to a longer shock, but the shock tuner has to do a much more precise job and more often than not, the end results is less than a person hoped for due to the tuning being so critical.

Another, larger problem is where the travel is located - in the 450R it's too high. All linkages *should* fix this if they're designed properly & it will make a huge difference in how the rear reacts and how well it works with the front.

So --- instead of being concerned with black magic progressive leverage ratios that are touted to be "better" than what Honda designed into their linkage system, more emphasis should be put on locating the correct amount of travel in the correct points in the chassis and matching it up with a good setup in the front.

Also, Tim May use that stuff on his practice bike, But look what he is using to Podium at GNC events with!

Remember when watching what top level pros use - that they are not paying for their parts. Choices are not made with a price vs performance mindset or even if one setup offers a slight or any advantage over another - it's all business & contracts. Never ever choose your parts just because a particular Pro runs them (or what appears to be them) on race day.

CdaleXtreme

04-20-2005, 10:52 AM

There is nothing Black magic about it. The walsh, along with holtz etc, lowers the travel much farther down in to the arc of the swingarm. A friend of mine has a PEP shock with stock link, and its travel is so far up in the arc its crazy. My travel literally almost begins where his ends.

SO

1. corrected travel position

2. longer shaft travel

3. a revised leverage ratio.

The Walsh among others address all of these issues. Which cannot be done by replacing just the piece of alluminum.

As far as value goes, sure the average rider wont need to spend that much, But when I travel across the country to race, I want to be on something that I know will work, something that will not break, and something that will help me cross the finish line in first. Price (within reason) isnt an issuse.

In an A-class national event. there is about $1,000 of contingency on the line. So parts, that can help you ride faster longer are an investment for me.

86atc250r

04-20-2005, 10:54 AM

The walsh, along with holtz etc, lowers the travel much farther down in to the arc of the swingarm

EXACTLY!! That is not altering the leverage ratio for more progressive travel, that is moving the travel to where it should be to perform properly --- just like I said above.

Re-read my last post.

CdaleXtreme

04-20-2005, 11:25 AM

read my Edited post above. :p

ml450r

04-20-2005, 07:54 PM

Originally posted by 86atc250r
Well, if you want to set the bottommed out frame height to it's proper level with tires larger than 18" - you're going to have to raise the airbox a little to make it happen - unless you want to compromise in the other direction.

Personally, why would I be willing to compromise though if I were spending big bucks to fix that very problem?

In other words - if you are buying a setup for 20" tires that doesn't require some airbox work, you should be very suspect of what it's really going to gain you.

Both the Houser and one of GT Thunder's setups were developed specifically for 20" tires and XC use.

The Walsh setup likely wasn't set up for 20" tires - in that case, it won't need to compress the suspension far enough to cause airbox issues.

It's not that Walsh did a better job than anyone else - it's that their setup was not intended for XC size tires and doesn't have to make the compromises for that type of setup to work properly.

Personally I think it's far more ridiculous that people are giving Walsh 1/3 (or more) the initial price of the quad for a rear shock and swingarm..... Hell, IMHO it should also add 15hp to the quad, scare little old ladys, and fix me breakfast in the morning for what they charge.

I am not understanding what you are saying. I can put 20" tires on my bike and not hit the airbox. I still have the same shock action. The problem walsh has is ground clearance. I am sure you would run into problems if you ran it in the woods. If you look at a walsh swingarm the linkage bolts thru the center of the swingarm. Other swingarms the linkage bolt on top. The area on top is what punches thru the airbox. I think walsh lowered their bolt location because it is for mx (ground clearance not important). Not for 18" to 20" tires. Notice LSR swingarm bolts thru just like Walsh.

As for the LSR setup, If I build a third bike it will be LSR. I don't like what walsh charges and I don't like the way they treat their customers. But I own their products because they were the first to get the TRX figured out for MX.
Merrill

ml450r

04-20-2005, 07:57 PM

If your running 20" tires I would think you would want more ground clearance than 18" tires so you wouldn't be trying to get the same "bottomed out frame height." I could be wrong but I think that would be true.

ml450r

04-20-2005, 08:08 PM

walsh 450R

LS@GtThunder

04-21-2005, 04:01 AM

465Stroker

04-21-2005, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by ml450r
If your running 20" tires I would think you would want more ground clearance than 18" tires so you wouldn't be trying to get the same "bottomed out frame height." I could be wrong but I think that would be true.

Most popluar XC setups will have a 1.5" frame to ground clearance with the shock fully compressed in which most cases will tag the ground when you start considering tire flex & ruts. So it is basically the same frame to ground clearance as most MX setups.

86atc250r

04-21-2005, 08:35 AM

What breaks the airbox with the stock setup is the rear linkage piece where it mounts to the swingarm.

Good point ;)

If your running 20" tires I would think you would want more ground clearance than 18" tires so you wouldn't be trying to get the same "bottomed out frame height." I could be wrong but I think that would be true

You do run more frame to ground clearance with an XC setup than MX with just the rider sitting static on the quad, but the bottommed out frame heights are going to be roughly the same. You want all the useable travel you can get.

Also consider that to get the same bottommed out frame height with a 20" tire as an 18" tire, the suspension with the 20" tire will have to compress further.

465Stroker

04-21-2005, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by 86atc250r

Also consider that to get the same bottommed out frame height with a 20" tire as an 18" tire, the suspension with the 20" tire will have to compress further. [/B]

This is the part that confuses most as to why the swingarm must travel the extra distance which in turn hits the airbox for XC but not MX.

dantwo

04-21-2005, 09:32 AM

Well if you run 18” or 20” you will not have to worry about the air box hitting. We set up all are bike’s with 1 1/2” of ground clearance witch is Standard. Keith Little runs his bikes with 1” of ground clearance and nothing hits (He rides a YFZ 450).You can lower your bike some more if you want, but it will not make a night and day difference in the performance of your bike.
Dan @ LSR

dantwo

04-21-2005, 04:14 PM

Here is a shot of the new gaurd and skid plate bolted up.

The gaurd bolts to the bottom of the linkage and will come supplied with all linkages and linkage/swing arm packages from now on.

The skid plate will come with all swing arm/linkage kits that have the option for skid plate mounts. There is a $159 adder for the kits that have skid mounts because it adds the skid plate as well.

The skid plate is made from 11 Ga (.122") thickness stainless steel, that is precision laser cut, and tig welded. It is designed to take a serious beating, and is more for XC style riding.

The gaurd is formed from the same plastic as the OEM skid plates that are on all the new bikes. The gaurd will have some give when it encounters an obstical, so it won't try and catch the obstical and slow you down. It is designed to glance of of stuff to protect the shock and linkage from catching nasty rocks and stumps.

We will be offering full skid plates for the TRX and YFZ OEM style and aftermarket swing arms that will be constructed the same way this skid plate is.

Thanks
Dan@LSR

dantwo

04-21-2005, 04:14 PM

another view

dantwo

04-21-2005, 04:16 PM

The skid plate will bolt to the TM design chain guide to add more strenght for protecting the chain. We will be selling those as an option and highly recommend thier use. It is the style that has the 2 rollers for zero resistance.

dantwo

04-21-2005, 04:17 PM

another angle

dantwo

04-21-2005, 04:18 PM

this is from looking underneath the quad towards the rear.

The guard will be made from 1/4" thick plastic. The one shown here is just a thin prototype, that has no bolts holding it on.

dantwo

04-21-2005, 04:20 PM

here is the last shot.

The guard isnt attached by bolts in any of these pictures, because they are not finished yet. They will be included in the kits, and will have a very low head profile to keep them protected from damage.

Pappy

04-21-2005, 04:20 PM

i sure am glad someone is on the problem:p the elka linkage seemed to help tremendously on the 400ex, but i really cant see much of a gain on my 450R. the reason i wont spend the $ on another elka link is simply due to the fitment issues with the skid plates. i am all for making small changes to accomodate things, but taking a die grinder to my $90 skid to clear my $200 linkage just doesnt appeal to me:D

when you smart guys get this all figured out, pm me with what to buy:cool:

MD450r

04-21-2005, 05:15 PM

I noticed in the pics of the Lsr link that the lower part of the shock is not a fork, where the linkage would hold a pressed in roller bearing. Instead it looks like the lower shock has a hiem like most front shocks. Just wondering if this is the way the setup is and if it is, does anyone feel that the hiem will require more frequent replacement than the roller bearing setup would riquire.
Lame question I know. I do like the idea of being able to run a skid plate over my bare walsh setup. I cringe every time I have to dodge a rock or stump.

Aaron

Out_Sider

04-21-2005, 08:06 PM

i dont understand why you need the linkage with the lsr swing arm?

RandRRrider

04-21-2005, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by Pappy
i sure am glad someone is on the problem:p the elka linkage seemed to help tremendously on the 400ex, but i really cant see much of a gain on my 450R. the reason i wont spend the $ on another elka link is simply due to the fitment issues with the skid plates. i am all for making small changes to accomodate things, but taking a die grinder to my $90 skid to clear my $200 linkage just doesnt appeal to me:D

when you smart guys get this all figured out, pm me with what to buy:cool:
My PRM skid plate works perfectly with the Elka linkage

dantwo

04-22-2005, 07:42 AM

We stayed away from the fork style shock mount to the link age because the heim style is stronger. Also it allows more room for the shock builder to do what he needs to the shock.
Dan @ LSR

dmackesty

04-22-2005, 09:32 AM

I'm still waiting to see the PEP linkage

Admin

04-22-2005, 11:18 AM

Thanks Dan for taking the time to participate in the forums, and I would also like to thank you for becoming ATVriders.com newest site sponsor.

Out_Sider

04-22-2005, 11:24 AM

but why do we need the lsr swing arm for the linkage, can i not have a Herrmann swing arm and run your linkage (the lsr linkage looks superior to the herrmann linkage)

dantwo

04-22-2005, 11:33 AM

Where the linkage bolts to the swing arm is in a different location than stock. I say try selling your swing arm on e-bay if you want to go with this set up. Good Luck!
Dan @ LSR

Mickey Dunlap

04-22-2005, 07:44 PM

Elka just came out with a new link that fits all stock mounts and uses a 18 inch shock and alot more travel.

Pappy

04-22-2005, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by RandRRrider
My PRM skid plate works perfectly with the Elka linkage

on both my YFZ and my 450R the skid plate contacts the linkage. it was so bad on yfz that cutting was the only solution. the 450r wasnt as bad but still contacted the plate.(fixed with spacers for the skidplate) i have fixed 8 or 10 plates that contacted the elka linkage but that was earlier this season. did prm or elka make a change to thier designs? if so great.

dont get me wrong, i am a huge elka supporter and i use thier products, i just dont like having to modify parts when its not warranted.

xcountry

04-24-2005, 08:30 AM

If the 450r shock has a problem with travel, why wouldn't you put the aftermarket linkage on and a shock from a 400ex or 250r? I believe both have more stroke than the 450r.

SRH

04-24-2005, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by ml450r
Both of my 450's have Walsh linkage. I have no complaints. I wouldn't rule the other linkages out. I feel that walsh is the best but there customer service sucks. The problem with GT thunder and Houser, they both bottom out into the airbox. I don't like things breaking. I don't know enough about the Holz or ARS linkages. I think I would try something else if I was to build another 450r, But walsh works good.
Merrill Crose

walsh has good customer service , i never had a problem with them, maybe you caught them at a bad time during there transition to florida

sredish

04-24-2005, 02:02 PM

So, what's the consensus on the GT Thunder / Derisi linkage and what would be recommended to use with the stock shock?

cinigen9

04-24-2005, 06:35 PM

I ran the GTT thunder link with a reworked stock shock for 8 months w/o moving the airbox. You could tell the upper link mount was coming in contact with the box if I ran the shock too soft but it never caused a problem.

I eventually took the shock off and lowered the bike down onto a spacer on top of the mount, and then heated the inside of the box up to give it a bit more room. You can get a stock box for $16 from your local dealer so dont be afraid to experiment. You will also have to ditch the stock parking brake mount or flip it around - it comes into contact with the box as well.

Carson

MessinaRacePrep

05-11-2005, 06:16 PM

AC Racing makes a swingarm skid that is specific for the TRX with the Elka linkage. It has survived many many many miles of Nevada Dez. racing. Call Eric at AC Racing for more info (they may have changed their design on the TRX skid by now).

A longer shock does not necessarily give you longer travel. Even if the Elka shock is 18" long, does the shock geometry and pivot points allow the use of the entire shaft travel before the bike bottoms out?

In "theory" if the 18" shock/5.5" of shock travel with no airbox mods and 18" tires gives you 11" of travel, then the same set-up (with longer shock?) with 22" or 24" tires (dez set-up) and airbox mod (or a custom made airbox) "should" give you 13" to 14" of travel. The only other quad I have seen ACTUALLY get over 14" of rear travel is the Teixeira Tech KTM 525R no-link using 22" tires, custom airbox, and alot of R&D time. (BTW - I am no expert so I could be totally off)

I like the LSR linkage Im just leary of what would happen if ya hit a rock at 40+ mph in the dez . I'd like to see atleast an aluminium skid at the link. I like the fact that the leverage ratio is a constant 2:1 (Im not sure if ALL linkages have that ratio or not) since it is the optimum.

qmurder24

12-05-2007, 09:19 PM

dan
i have 06 450r axis ti dual rate and your dc-6 linkage. do you or someone offer a skid plate?
thanks!

GIXXER1KR

12-06-2007, 07:45 AM

Im running the GT Thunder Link and after riding a full Walsh/Pep bike i called Jim at Motowoz and told him i wasnt happy with my GThunder/Motowoz rear set up.He said send it in and i did so he did a full MX respring and Revalve and this is an unbeleivable set up.About $1100 total and is on par with everything else.Valving makes all the difference in the world:devil: Leaves me over $1000 to put into my motor!!!More power to pull outta the corners now.Dont get me wrong when u compete suspension is one of the most important things but u need power;)

Jason Hall

12-16-2007, 02:28 PM

Does anyone have a 06-07 long travel front link that they could measure for me. I'm In the middle of building an aluminum framed 3 wheeler using a Crf450 frame. I would like to know how far back the shock mounting hole Is from the front frame mounting hole. Also the total length from the center or the front mounting bolt to the center of the rear mounting bolt. Also how far down the shock mounting hole Is If you held a straight edge from the front to rear holes. I know the 04-05 link Is completly different than the 06-08. The swingarms are also different lengths as you all know. The distance from the swingarm pivot bolt to the rear linkage mount on the 04-05 Is shorter than the 06-08. Anyway,I hope somone can help me out. I want to use a 17" 250r aftermarket shock I already have & keep the shock angle the same as a 06-08 TRX450r with long travel linkage. The problem Is I cant build the top shock mount until I know how low the long travel link will drop the shock. Any help would be great.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff42/Jasons450r/Crf4503wheeler.jpg