getting timing right after rebuild, help

[nopulse95]

I am in the process of putting everything back together, after 416, and hotcams stage 2 rebuild. The manual shows the index marks on the cam sprocket as both lining up parrallel to the head, and one straight up and down. When I do this, then put the tensioner in, one moves slightly down, so I took the cam sprocket off, and moved it one tooth the other direction, put the tensioner back on, rotate engine so it's on it's timing mark, and tdc, and now the other mark is slightly off. It seems like either way, one mark will be slightly above, and the other slightly below the head. Any suggestions.???

[crazyelece]

I may be totally off base here but are you supposed to put the cam chain tensioner in before you put the head cover on? I thought you lined it up to time it, put the head cover on, and then put the tensioner back in.

[2muchquad]

make sure there is no slack in the chain in FRONT of the motor when youput the chain on the sprocket.sure its gonna tilt a lil'bit when you put the chain tensioner on but as long as you do it as i describes you'll be fine,the gasket sealing surface is a reference.:p

[nopulse95]

Well, the manual shows the two marks being parrallal with the top of the head, then after the tensioner is installed, it tells you to check it again. Mine is parrallel before I put the tensioner in, then after I put the tension on it, it is slightly crooked. If that makes sense. And then if I move in one tooth over, it's crooked the other way. Anyone else have this problem? Or are your index marks perfectly parralel with the head surface, after the tensioner is installed?

[kilabeez0]

i say just try it and see what happens. that little difference shouldn't make a big deal. if anything it might not run perfect but then just tear into it again. doesn't take very long. dont worry your not going to "blow your motor" if the timing is a **** hair off.

[Aceman]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but have you tried lining up the marks on the cam sprocket/head with slack in the chain on the cam tensioner side. That way when the tensioner is installed it won't affect the marks.:confused: I prefer to do my motors right the first time, not the way Kilabeez does it. Yes, it may run pretty good but no reason to do it twice when you can ask someone how to do it properly.

[nopulse95]

I definately want to do it right the first time. I put the sprocket in the chain, then pushing in the cam chain guide with my finger, acting as the tensioner. IF the lines are perfect, then I press in the guide, as tension, the line closest to the tensioner rotates down, so the lines are not quite parrallel. So i thought, rotate the sprocket one tooth to the right, then when I press in the tensioner, it will rotate parrallel, but that doesn't work, it doesn't rotate enough, and end up not being parrallel anyway? maybe i just line it up, then when the tensioner presses in, not worry about the little bit it rotates it? Would you notice the timing being off one tooth? Is thier any other way to check to see if it's correct?

This is how you do it.

Remove the center cap and the timing cap on the flywheel cover. Rotate the engine COUNTER CLOCKWISE until you see the sideways T line up with the notch in the window. Once you have that done, put the cam in with the cam gear.. line up the 2 marks with the side of the head, and make sure the cam lobes are pointing DOWN.. put some blue locktite on one of the cam gear bolts and put into the hole, then tighten down, then rotate the motor until you can see the other hole fine.. repeat the locktite and torque procedure.. insert the tensioner.. and when you put the tensioner in, take the phillips head screw out of the tensioner and back the tensioner plunger in.. hold the tensioner plunger in while you install the tensioner so you dont unessicarly stretch the chain out (itll happen pretty easy)..

Once you have the tensioner in the motor and snug, pull the screwdriver out of the tensioner plunger screw and it should snap into place. If you need to, rotate the engine so that the cam lobes are down again and place the head on it.. torque all the bolts and then continue to adjust your valves as per the manual (.005 on the exhuast side and .004 on the intake side)

How i do is is when i put the cam in is the lobes face straight down and are flat from the backside of the cam (the side thats towards the rear of the bike) and its fine..

I hope this helps you.. ive done this job about 6 times in 1 week (from a stretched timing chain..)

Jesse

[Aceman]

It's been awhile since I've done my topend so someone else might be able to help you out a little better than I can. My only other idea is maybe your chain is stretched and needs replaced or it's possible that your marks are able to be slightly out of parallel and it still be alright.

[chad502ex]

Originally posted by Dirt Merchant
This is how you do it.

Remove the center cap and the timing cap on the flywheel cover. Rotate the engine COUNTER CLOCKWISE until you see the sideways T line up with the notch in the window. Once you have that done, put the cam in with the cam gear.. line up the 2 marks with the side of the head, and make sure the cam lobes are pointing DOWN.. put some blue locktite on one of the cam gear bolts and put into the hole, then tighten down, then rotate the motor until you can see the other hole fine.. repeat the locktite and torque procedure.. insert the tensioner.. and when you put the tensioner in, take the phillips head screw out of the tensioner and back the tensioner plunger in.. hold the tensioner plunger in while you install the tensioner so you dont unessicarly stretch the chain out (itll happen pretty easy)..

Once you have the tensioner in the motor and snug, pull the screwdriver out of the tensioner plunger screw and it should snap into place. If you need to, rotate the engine so that the cam lobes are down again and place the head on it.. torque all the bolts and then continue to adjust your valves as per the manual (.005 on the exhuast side and .004 on the intake side)

How i do is is when i put the cam in is the lobes face straight down and are flat from the backside of the cam (the side thats towards the rear of the bike) and its fine..

I hope this helps you.. ive done this job about 6 times in 1 week (from a stretched timing chain..)

Jesse

well said Jesse

[nopulse95]

I've done exactly what you have described Jesse, except the tensioner part, I didn't remove the screw, and pull the plunger in. I'll try it that way. Is it possible I already stretched my chain? It didn't seem to have too much tension on it? Thanks for your help....

[hondardr4life]

Mine did the exact same thing. I put it back together with it slightly off. Mine runs great, I don't have any problems.

[K_Fulk]

Do you have a degree key? That will throw it off. Did you get the head or cylinder decked? That might a throw it of a little bit also.

[nopulse95]

no degree key, and no decking, it is just slightly off after putting the tensioner in, so maybe I"m just being too critical. I have no choice but to button it up, and see how she does. Hopefully it'll be fine.. thanks.

yea too critical, but if you run it for a few hours (or 20 minutes) and it starts to loose power slowly, then be prepaired to replace that timing chain.. my plunger was all the way out.. and i could move the chain around quite a bit..

To do the chain its a pita, you gotta pull the clutch cover off, remove the clutch, remove the primary gears, remove the cam gear, yea its a pita..

but.. you can do the job yourself, and it should only take about 2 hours to do, and cost you around 60 bux (mine was 65 bux, 35 for the timing chain, 14 for the gasket, the rest for oil and a oil filter) and the 35 dollar timing chain is the crf 450..

I did the same thing with the tensioner, and its why (i think) i had to replace the chain... it stretched it out quite quick..

But yea anytime you reinstall that plunger, you have to pull the big phillps head screw out, then back the tensioner out and hold it with a screwdriver so it doesnt put any unessicary pressure on the timing chain.


Jesse

[nopulse95]

I've pulled the plunger out, loc-tited the cam sprocket bolts, then put the tensioner back in the right way, when I released the plunger, the chain still has plenty of tension on it. So hopefully I'll be okay, thats for your help?

[bigb426ex]

I did my top-end just a few weeks ago and I had the same issue you did. I was just a HAIR off. I didn't line up exactly with the cylinder deck even with pressing on the chain guide. If I moved it one tooth over it was worse. Got it all together and have about 4 hours on it now and it runs like a champ.:D

[kilabeez0]

Mine did the exact same thing. I put it back together with it slightly off. Mine runs great, I don't have any problems.




I did my top-end just a few weeks ago and I had the same issue you did. I was just a HAIR off. I didn't line up exactly with the cylinder deck even with pressing on the chain guide. If I moved it one tooth over it was worse. Got it all together and have about 4 hours on it now and it runs like a champ.

wow i guess the "kilabeez way" worked fine for these two and it looks like it was right all along :blah:

[wilkin250r]

I had this exact same problem just the other day on a 250X.

So the "T" mark is TDC. Great, is that when it's at the top of the hole, the middle of the hole, or near the bottom of the hole?

Just like you, when I put the camshaft sprocket on, it was half a tooth off when the timing mark was lined up in the window. Finally, I decided to forget the timing mark, and see if I could VISUALLY see TDC by looking at the piston through the sparkplug hole. I found that TDC was when the "T" on the flywheel was at the bottom of the window, rather than the middle. Now, my timing marks allign exactly.

Try to find TDC by some method OTHER than the timing mark. It may be the deciding factor to determine whether you need to move that one tooth over or not.