BRP Update - Possible comeback with 2-strokes?

[nacs400ex]

I just read the article "Canadian Strategy" in my ATV SPORT for April. Bombardier seems to be going a different direction in the recreational market.

" BRP's E-Tec line of two-stroke outboard engines will be a major focal point in 2005 and beyond. Launched in the spring of 2003, BRP now offers seven E-TEC outboard engines. "Our competitors are focusing on four-strokes and we believe two-strokes are here to stay. Two-strokes [that are] clean have a lot of advantages compared to four-strokes," said Boisjoli.

The E-Tec two-stroke engines deserve recognition because they, according to BRP, offer improved fuel economy, quieter sound, smaller size, reduced weight and lower emissions. In fact,, Boisjoli said the E-Tec engines are cleaner than most four-strokes. Will this technoly be used for other markets including OFF ROAD VEHICLES?

"Where there is an advantage to have a two-stroke, we could use that technology everywhere," explained Boisjoli. "In snowmobiles, I believe there is a market for four-strokes, but there is a bigger market for two-strokes. We have this technology in our hands and we will do something with it. The idea is four-strokes four-strokes are good for certain applications, and two-strokes are good for other applications. Where it makes sense to use a two-stroke, this is an asset for us, there's no doubt about it"

Boisjoli said there are no limitations to using the E-Tec two-stroke technolgy in other areas that it could be done now, but would not disclose if BRP has developed anything. "

I dont think two-strokes will be totally gone when we reach 2006. Hopefully BRP develops the E-Tec two-stroke motors into ATV's.

[kamikaze_rzrbak]

how does the e-tec engine work?

[nacs400ex]

About the E-Tec from Boating World Magazine :


The public perception of 2-strokes by many people is that it’s a dinosaur technology that is on its way to extinction by the powers that be who regulate environmental matters, especially in Cah-lee-for-nee-ya. Well, to paraphrase Mark Twain, “The reports of the 2-stroke’s demise are greatly exaggerated.” Evinrude’s new E-TEC line, which started production last year with models ranging from 40- to 90 hp, expands its lineup to include V6s from 200 hp to 250 hp. And this isn’t just a new and improved “fixed Ficht” engine, but a whole new way of taking 2-strokes well into the 21st-century.

The beefs against 2-strokes are largely directed toward the carbureted models, which for most of a century were practically the only outboard design available to consumers. They make a lot of power for their size, but get poor fuel economy because of one major design flaw: The exhaust port is still open while fuel is entering the combustion chamber. So like trying to fill a water glass with a hole in it, there was unburned fuel being released into the environment. The byproduct of that waste is smoke and noxious fumes. And then there was the excessive noise. When direct injection came along in the late 1990s, the problem of escaping unburned fuel was solved, but early models had some reliability issues. They were quieter and less smoky, but the 4-strokes held a significant advantage in these areas.

The next generation of 2-stroke E-TECs from Evinrude take these disadvantages and turn them into positives; one of the most significant improvements comes in the area of emissions. The bottom line is that all E-TECs are rated three stars, designating them as ultra-low emission engines by the California Air Resources Board (CARB), whose standards are even more stringent than those set by the 2006 EPA regulations. One of the ways Evinrude achieves these goals is by utilizing stratified combustion, which means at lower rpm only part of the combustion chamber receives a fuel charge. This lean burn process improves fuel economy as each droplet of gas is ignited by the double platinum tip spark plugs. The plugs emit a long spark at start-up and idle, and a short one at higher rpm when the cylinder is fully-charged with the optimum gas/air mixture that’s determined by its electronic brain, the EMM (Engine Management Module), which can make up to 8 million calculations per second. The E-TECs produce far fewer concentrations of deadly carbon monoxide than any other outboard, and although not yet regulated by American agencies, that’s likely to change in the future.

The biggest difference between the E-TEC and its Ficht predecessor is the way it delivers fuel into the combustion chamber. The Ficht models — which Evinrude still offers in mid-range power — use an electromagnetically controlled piston to hammer the charge into position to be burned and use a spring to return it to its starting position. It has only two basic positions: inject or retract. In contrast, the E-TEC injector uses a voice coil, just like the one found at the back of your stereo speaker at home to control the injector. This gives it not only the ability to allow the amount of fuel being delivered to be varied, depending on the situation, but when the polarity is reversed, the injector piston is actively pulled back. The result is a system that eliminates that clackety sound made by Ficht injectors at low rpm, and is approximately twice as fast, allowing it to operate at a higher fuel pressure.

Adequate lubrication is an issue for 2-strokes, and has traditionally been handled by mixing oil and gas prior to combustion, which is sort of a shotgun approach to lubrication. With E-TEC, the oil and fuel aren’t mixed before burning; instead, oil is squirted directly on those places that need it the most like connecting rods and bearings. As a result of Evinrude’s oil management scheme, the E-TEC uses 75 percent less oil than carbureted 2-strokes and half the oil of comparable direct-injected 2-strokes when using Evinrude’s XD 100T oil. In addition, the E-TEC has boron-nitrite honed cylinder walls that are porous enough to retain oil, like a seasoned skillet. This allows the E-TEC to be run wide open, right out of the box with no break-in period required. Amazingly, the E-TEC can even run when the oil tank is empty, due in part to its use of roller bearings. Its S.A.F.E. (Self Adjusting Failsafe Electronics) mode automatically drops engine rpm and allows you the ability to limp home for up to five hours in the event of certain engine malfunctions.

The engineers at BRP set out to make the Evinrude E-TEC as user-friendly as possible, and ended up with a design that needs no scheduled dealer maintenance for up to three years of normal recreational use or 300 hours, and because it’s 2-stroke, there are no oil changes. Even after months of not running, it will start on the first revolution. It has a magneto, so you can even pull start it if you have a battery problem."

[kamikaze_rzrbak]

that sounds awsome! so if this works out we can still have 2-strokes in our future?

[nacs400ex]

Well Bombardier is now using the E-Tec engines for the boats as said, so it would only make sense to adapt this system to be used on other two-stroke engines.

this is really interesting, I hope that they will adapt this technolgy to ATV`s, and that other companies like Honda and Yamaha will follow the example, LONG LIVE 2 STROKES!:blah: :devil:

[nacs400ex]

yep.

[dunnonuttin]

Originally posted by Superman Sam
this is really interesting, I hope that they will adapt this technolgy to ATV`s, and that other companies like Honda and Yamaha will follow the example, LONG LIVE 2 STROKES!:blah: :devil: i dunno, im a really big 2 stroke guy (i love the smell of it too) but im startin to lean towards 4strokes now sein how they are startin to make a comeback

[Ralph]

this sounds great, im really interested in this becuase its something somebody should have done a long time ago,

i also like the idea of the market becoming more broad with more competitive companys and such!

hrmm.. that e-tec system is a NIGHTMARE.. i run a boat repair business, and here it is from the horses mouth.. it is JUNK! brp owns johnson/evinrude (omc) and thats the motors they are talkin about.. Mercury also has a answer to that, the optimax/promax line which is merc's mainstay.. merc came out with this tech first.. with omc to follow.. now, granted the e-tec system is about the same as a 4 stroke when it comes to emissions, but there is so much junk on it, it might as well be a 4 stroke..

Now for the bad news, the EPA wont allow manufacture of 2 strokes after 2010 (i believe) so dont get your hopes up.. the major manufactures are trying to persuade the EPA into lifting the proposed ban, so that the engines and technology can stay.. but i dont see that happening..

To make a long story short, if the "e-tec/optimax" technology was adapted to recreational offroad atv's you would might as well just forget about working on them yourself.. as 90% of the engine is a dealer only serviceable issue.. that is unless somone comes out with the same thing, only a little more user friendly.. think of the setup as fuel injection on the next level..

Thats it in about a nutshell.. hope this helps clear somthings up

Jesse

[wilkin250r]

The E-tec is basically making direct-injection more complicated. Let's face it, the ONLY use for 2-stroke engines in ATVs is for the sport models. And, let's also face it, sport ATVs have NEVER gotten fancy, new technology. It's always applied to the dirtbikes first. Now, add that little tidbit of information to the dirtbike mentality, you'll never see EFI or Direct-injected 2-strokes on a dirtbike, too much weight. An ATV can handle the extra weight a little better, but you'll never get new technology on any sport ATV.

With the advent of faster, lighter, improved 4-strokes, I really think the 2-strokes are a dying breed. Nobody is going to spend the time and money researching new technology for 2-stroke ATVs when the 4-strokes are the hot ticket right now.

[quadrider60]

2 strokes are for cuttin grass, 4 strokes are for haulin *****!!
:muscle:

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by quadrider60
2 strokes are for cuttin grass, 4 strokes are for haulin *****!!
:muscle:

Which explains why the banshee and quadzilla are both king drag racing and hill shooting, the ultimate test of speed and power. :rolleyes:

[jacobw]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Which explains why the banshee and quadzilla are both king drag racing and hill shooting, the ultimate test of speed and power. :rolleyes:

which bike makes a better hillshooter and drag racer the banshee or quadzilla 500?

[XANDADA]

Originally posted by Dirt Merchant
Now for the bad news, the EPA wont allow manufacture of 2 strokes after 2010 (i believe) so dont get your hopes up.. the major manufactures are trying to persuade the EPA into lifting the proposed ban, so that the engines and technology can stay.. but i dont see that happening..

The EPA has not banned two stroke engines at all, now or in the year 2020. Some two stroke engines that fall into certain categories such as recreational boat engines and quads must meet stricter pollution guidelines. That is it. Why do people always keep saying that two stroke engines are banned in the year 2006 or 2008 or 2010??????? Where is everyone getting this incorrect info???

I'm not picking on you Dirt Merchant because I have seen at least 50 people on this site claim that two stroke engines are banned in an upcomming year. IT IS NOT TRUE!!
This link will take you to a good read: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad/2002/f02039.pdf

Is there an updated copy of this document anywhere that changes this stance? I can't find it at the EPA website from which the link above takes you...